M1ster_R0gers
[H]ard [H]eaded
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2000
- Messages
- 1,525
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Kentron/OCZ partnership
- Thread starter M1ster_R0gers
- Start date
Falls Included
I'm happy & gay too
- Joined
- May 30, 2003
- Messages
- 3,701
oh boy, now people will really like ocz...
M1ster_R0gers
[H]ard [H]eaded
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2000
- Messages
- 1,525
its funny how I noticed this just now, but it was a 2003 press release. I dont know if I was in a coma that week, or rather there were no trumpets and parade in the streets celebrating said partnership.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,626
LOL! I wish I could have seen it last year. I got cheated out of a laugh....
^^^
I'll give you $1000 if you come to our office and it is in anything close to a strip mall. We are in quite the nice office building in Sunnyvale, CA. Just goes to show how much lack of knowledge and downright untrue things about our company reside here on the HardForum.
I'll give you $1000 if you come to our office and it is in anything close to a strip mall. We are in quite the nice office building in Sunnyvale, CA. Just goes to show how much lack of knowledge and downright untrue things about our company reside here on the HardForum.
Absolut Talent
Banned Ad Blocker
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2001
- Messages
- 3,402
Gahhh...the Kentron ram is rearing its ugly head again to kill the forums!!
/me hopes Im not one of the few people who remembers that
/me hopes Im not one of the few people who remembers that
In other shocking news, OCZ/Kentron announced today that Martha Stewart will be decorating their office space, and providing financial advice! Rumors abound that Enron will be supplying the power and Firestone will be giving all OCZ/Kentron employees free tires for their SUVs!!!!!!
For the record, I have an OCZ GeForce2 MX that chugged alone overclocked to 200/200 passive cooled with a Thermaltake Blue Orb (fan died and I just let it run for months that way) for a long time and still works, and I have OCZ memory from 2-3 years ago going strong, and my current OCZ memory is just fine as well..
Really, I know they did have some QA and customer service problems a few years back, but I haven't seen any problems with them recently.
Really, I know they did have some QA and customer service problems a few years back, but I haven't seen any problems with them recently.
AMD T-type
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2002
- Messages
- 4,590
Absolut Talent said:Gahhh...the Kentron ram is rearing its ugly head again to kill the forums!!
/me hopes Im not one of the few people who remembers that
So, I hear Kentron is putting a new twist on memory
OCTech said:
Answer me this: Why did OCZ do what they did?
Why did you LIE about your products?
Why did you sell silver thermal paste with no silver?
Why did you grind the labels off of ram chips?
Why did you BUY REVIEWS?
Why did you sell PC-100 ram as PC-133, and 2100 as 2700 (IIRC)?
YOU answer them, and we'll see about integrity. You come up with valid, GOOD reasons, and I'll consider OCZ.
Why did you LIE about your products?
We don't...but you think we do.
Why did you sell silver thermal paste with no silver?
We were done over just like a few others were with that..we chose to recall and reissue with a new product offering free samples to all customers..you DON'T know all the story so i find it disturbing you choose to think it was all our fault when it wasn't.The offer for replacement samples is still open BTW and the replacement is made by AS and is AS5.
Why did you grind the labels off of ram chips?
No grinding m8, we used a laser and many do this also so we are not alone.We found it helped the thermal charactoristics of the samsung IC's we used..the 3700gold rev1 was one of the best modules to hit the streets many doing 2-3-3-5 at ddr500.
Why did you BUY REVIEWS?
I have said this many times..we don't buy reviews.I handle a lot of top line reviewers for OCZ and all I supply is samples, which the review can keep.All i ever ask is that reviewers work with me on issues and give us a fair review...nothing more.
If you have proof of this show me.
Why did you sell PC-100 ram as PC-133, and 2100 as 2700 (IIRC)?
So you think we are the only ones to have done this??? i have some Corsair 2700 here that uses a micron PC2100 IC....if you want pics I will show them.
Companies speed grade IC's, if they find they work fine at a higher speed they are allowed to mark them as so.The warranty falls with the seller though and NOT the IC manufactuer.Most of the PC4000 is infact graded at 3200 speed as that is the highest Jedec speed grade available, so it looks like all manufacturers are guilty of remarking IC's at a higher speed grade.
Why did OCZ do what they did?
Well this one is hard for me to comment on as i have only been with OCZ for 12 months and i don't know 100% of the story (only 98%) so I won't.
I will say nothing that may have happened 2 yrs ago happens now; we have what we believe to be the best CS out there, with an open support forum and online helpers who tour many forums looking for issues.We have said we will sort any issue any customer has even if its 2 or more yrs old.
So while im sorry about the last question im sure you will agree i have done pretty well answering all the others.
With Regard to who i am, my name is Tony, im UK based and go by bigtoe on many forums. I have over 30k forum posts away from the [H] and im pretty respected within the overclocking community.
I will help anyone who asks for help, I help many reviewers, and general forum peeps get their rigs running better on many forums.
I have even offered kyle help on occasion.
We don't...but you think we do.
Why did you sell silver thermal paste with no silver?
We were done over just like a few others were with that..we chose to recall and reissue with a new product offering free samples to all customers..you DON'T know all the story so i find it disturbing you choose to think it was all our fault when it wasn't.The offer for replacement samples is still open BTW and the replacement is made by AS and is AS5.
Why did you grind the labels off of ram chips?
No grinding m8, we used a laser and many do this also so we are not alone.We found it helped the thermal charactoristics of the samsung IC's we used..the 3700gold rev1 was one of the best modules to hit the streets many doing 2-3-3-5 at ddr500.
Why did you BUY REVIEWS?
I have said this many times..we don't buy reviews.I handle a lot of top line reviewers for OCZ and all I supply is samples, which the review can keep.All i ever ask is that reviewers work with me on issues and give us a fair review...nothing more.
If you have proof of this show me.
Why did you sell PC-100 ram as PC-133, and 2100 as 2700 (IIRC)?
So you think we are the only ones to have done this??? i have some Corsair 2700 here that uses a micron PC2100 IC....if you want pics I will show them.
Companies speed grade IC's, if they find they work fine at a higher speed they are allowed to mark them as so.The warranty falls with the seller though and NOT the IC manufactuer.Most of the PC4000 is infact graded at 3200 speed as that is the highest Jedec speed grade available, so it looks like all manufacturers are guilty of remarking IC's at a higher speed grade.
Why did OCZ do what they did?
Well this one is hard for me to comment on as i have only been with OCZ for 12 months and i don't know 100% of the story (only 98%) so I won't.
I will say nothing that may have happened 2 yrs ago happens now; we have what we believe to be the best CS out there, with an open support forum and online helpers who tour many forums looking for issues.We have said we will sort any issue any customer has even if its 2 or more yrs old.
So while im sorry about the last question im sure you will agree i have done pretty well answering all the others.
With Regard to who i am, my name is Tony, im UK based and go by bigtoe on many forums. I have over 30k forum posts away from the [H] and im pretty respected within the overclocking community.
I will help anyone who asks for help, I help many reviewers, and general forum peeps get their rigs running better on many forums.
I have even offered kyle help on occasion.
bigtoe said:
1. Wrong. They DID. They said that the PC-100 and 2100 modules WERE PC-133, and they were not.
2. Right... After everything that happened before, we're expected to believe that? Sounds like you got caught again, and are just trying to cover your tracks.
3. Oh. So doing it with a laser makes it right? Proof on thermal improvements?
4.
http://www.thehardwarereviewer.com/OCZ_2.html "Although scandals about an OCZ resellers attempt to bribe reviewers for positive comments" http://forums.designtechnica.com/archive/index.php/t-1200.html Sigh. So ignorant of what you do...'5. Maybe if it WORKS, but the ram you all sold, didn't. And it wasn't micron certifying that the 2100 would overclock to 2700, it was someone in OCZ deciding to save a buck by relabeling 2100 as 2700. Not the manufacturer, the RESELLER, and that, my friend, is illegal. Just as selling a 1.7ghz cpu as a 2.0 because it will overclock there is illegal, relabeling a product and selling it as something it isn't, is illegal.
Your history is what it is, and there are many companies out there that don't have that history that people can spend their money at, and not risk buying from a dodgy company. You all should have ditched the OCZ name when you tried to "reinvent" yourselves, since the name is attached to nothing but corruption, lies, and piss-poor parts.
Why take a risk with your money, when you KNOW you'll be fine with Mushkin, or Corsair? The best way to get a system running better is to use REPUTABLE parts that you KNOW are good. I don't yet trust OCZ for making those parts, as each time they try, something seems to go wrong.
You have ansewered none of the questions acceptably, none. Why would OCZ change their ways? People bought your shit then, as they do now. They believed your excuses and marketing drabble then, so why not now? What has changed? Show me some proof, buddy.
Drisler said:
So long as there are unsuspecting consumers out there that would be duped by a shoddy company, it is never old. My job is to help people make good, solid pc's, and help them get them to perform better. Part of that is not buying cheap, poorly constructed parts.
lopoetve said:4.
First link is to a good review of OCZ ram beating out some samsung and someone claiming that an OCZ reseller....not OCZ themselves bribed a review site.
Next link is to some guy claiming the same thing. If John did this or not is besides the point because he didn't work for OCZ nor did he own OCZ as that site said. I've met John a few times and I know he doesn't talk like that....pretty much what you have there is some guy who could or could not be making it up...but there is no proof other than this supposed msn convo..am I not right?
Later on in that thread comes this post by Ioman
I'm not claiming to know 100% for sure what went on because I don't..I'm just going off the info you provided.
Spec3 said:
I know what OCZ said about it, when they were caught. The question is, did they know about it behind the scenes, or not?
I'm not willing to gamble with my money that they did. There are enough other shady business dealings in the background that I'd rather go with someone else.
Why should we think that they'll be any different then they were? Why would you risk your money on a company with very shady dealings, when there ARE companies, that for the SAME price, offer the SAME product, and don't have those skeletons in the closet?
Really? Why NOT Mushkin? Or Corsair? It's the same, if not better, and you don't have the baggage.
BlindedByScience
More Human than Human
- Joined
- May 26, 2000
- Messages
- 9,225
I have noticed and applaud your "testicular fortitude" about wading into the fray full speed. And, no kidding, I give you kudos for the help and support you've offered folks on this board. Though not an OCZ customer, I do appreciate your efforts.OCTech said:
But, you have to admit that OCZ has in the past done some very "questionable" things, and downright did wrong by some folks. If they are really serious about their products and support, selling quality products that are properly represented and doing the right things for the customer on a consistant basis going forward will probably turn the tide. It's an unfortunate fact that folks will remember bad experiences far longer than good ones. It takes far longer to restore a good reputation than it does to trash one, to be sure.
I will also gently remind the [H]orde that we can argue the merits based on fact all day, but if and when things get personal, you can count on a Mod or SuperMod or Admin or maybe even "The Boss" to step in and you may not be thrilled with the outcome. Please keep things reasonably civil and objective, folks......
Regards - B.B.S.
BlindedByScience said:I have noticed and applaud your "testicular fortitude" about wading into the fray full speed. And, no kidding, I give you kudos for the help and support you've offered folks on this board. Though not an OCZ customer, I do appreciate your efforts.
But, you have to admit that OCZ has in the past done some very "questionable" things, and downright did wrong by some folks. If they are really serious about their products and support, selling quality products that are properly represented and doing the right things for the customer on a consistant basis going forward will turn probably turn the tide. It's an unfortunate fact that folks will remember bad experiences far longer than good ones. It takes far longer to restore a good reputation than it does to trash one, to be sure.
I will also gently remind the [H]orde that we can argue the merits based on fact all day, but if and when things get personal, you can count on a Mod or SuperMod or Admin or maybe even "The Boss" to step in and you may not be thrilled with the outcome. Please keep things reasonably civil and objective, folks......
Regards - B.B.S.
I hope I am keeping it civil, if I'm not, please let me know. This is a discussion I've wanted to have for a long time, and I'm enjoying being able to discuss it.
Can OCZ win me back as a customer? Sure. It'll take a few years with NO incidents, but it can happen. It just seems like every time that I'm starting to think they really have turned over a new leaf, something happens (like the silver compound). It's like they're in a rush, and just keep missing little things.
OCTech, I don't agree with you on your company, but I DO applaud your efforts on helping people. You are an example we should all follow as to how to offer assistance, and I hope that companies DO follow OCZ's example of open help forums and roving technicians.
I sincerely hope that OCZ DOES do well (dispite anything I say), but I keep seeing questionable practices, and questionable products (even to this day, there is no need for a ferrite core on a power cable to a video card).
lopoetve said:
Well there in lies one of the biggest questions. There is no undoubtable proof that OCZ did or didn't know, but they say they didn't. People however use this incident to bash OCZ into the ground over and over and over...etc...but there is just no concrete proof. If I or someone else came out today and said I have proof that corsairs pays off review sites and then posted a convo of me talked to RAMguy and him saying basically the same thing's as John said (or didn't) what would be the outcome? Would everyone here start to reply to every thread where corsairs was even mentioned in the slightest with, "Oh look what corsairs does...with a past like that why would you want to buy anything now ever X number of years later even if they sell great stuff"
People are basing their argument on things that happened years ago. The company is not the same as it once was. Frankly I think OCZ can let their products to the talking for them, because all they speak are good things. The silver paste thing was not good, but they came right out and fixed it...didn't hide anything at all about it. OCZ ram is top notch...definatly on par with anything corsairs or mushkin are putting out...and for their EB line I would go as far as saying better than the rest.
I'm glad this is being talked about and no flaming is going on because I think the [H] forum needs to get this out of their systems once and for all
Spec3 said:Well there in lies one of the biggest questions. There is no undoubtable proof that OCZ did or didn't know, but they say they didn't. People however use this incident to bash OCZ into the ground over and over and over...etc...but there is just no concrete proof. If I or someone else came out today and said I have proof that corsairs pays off review sites and then posted a convo of me talked to RAMguy and him saying basically the same thing's as John said (or didn't) what would be the outcome? Would everyone here start to reply to every thread where corsairs was even mentioned in the slightest with, "Oh look what corsairs does...with a past like that why would you want to buy anything now ever X number of years later even if they sell great stuff"
People are basing their argument on things that happened years ago. The company is not the same as it once was. Frankly I think OCZ can let their products to the talking for them, because all they speak are good things. The silver paste thing was not good, but they came right out and fixed it...didn't hide anything at all about it. OCZ ram is top notch...definatly on par with anything corsairs or mushkin are putting out...and for their EB line I would go as far as saying better than the rest.
I'm glad this is being talked about and no flaming is going on because I think the [H] forum needs to get this out of their systems once and for all
I believe, IIRC, that Kyle and other site owners mentioned the same kind of thing happening to them. It wasn't an isolated incident.
Now, if Corsair did the same thing, yes, I'd dump them in a second. For instance, I used to respect Mitsubishi a great deal. Now that their entire upper staff is in jail for hiding safety recalls, I recommend that everyone avoid them. If they didn't have problems for a few years, I'd go back. But every time I think about buying OCZ, something has just happened that puts them in a bad light. Every. Single. Time. The silver paste may have been just an isolated incident, but happening to the same company that got in trouble for lying about things in the past? Seems a little far to be a coincidence to me. And we don't know that there wasn't something going on in the background. We really don't.
I don't think the company is the same as it once was. They're not about to get hit with major legal action like they were. The fact that they once were in that position, though, makes me think twice about buying their products.
And again, why not buy Corsair or Mushkin for the RAM? It's "on-par", and you know that there aren't issues like OCZ has. You know that their history is clean. So why not just buy their products?
lopoetve said:
If I came across as sounding like you should only buy OCZ stuff it wasn't my intention. If you want to buy Corsairs or Mushkin then feel free. Personally I always check out reviews and forum posts to find out which ram is best when I'm getting new ram...just happens that I chose OCZ each time. Plus when you find something you like it's hard to switch. But if Mushkin came out with some Uber ram like the OCZ EB tmrw I would look to get some.
Steve
lopoetve
The micron that was used was 2100..it did not run 2700 speed very well and the review samples in the UK were actaullay samsung CTL-CB3 2700 based so who was kidding who?
Reviews were samsung and shipping modules were micron..weird eh?
This is an old story but it shows something no different to what your accusing OCZ of and this was was of your favourite ram manuafacturers.
So the 3200 samsung corsair are using in their PC4000 or used in their 3700 was actually 4000 and 3700?? i think NOT. Apples to apples m8, same shit just different day.
So corsair relabelling PC3200 to PC3700 is illegal? you seem to say so!
Regards the silver paste we did the best by our customers, and with you knowing 5% of what i know you ain't qualified to say any different. SSS commended us on what we did and agree's we could have done no more..he also knows a LOT more than you.
Regarding reviews...go search and find me one we actually bought out the hundreds posted in the last 12 months out there....you need to link to 1 review with proof.
Also if I had found that lasering the top off the package on a BH5 IC made it run 2-2-2-5 at 250fsb 2.65V and every single module did this and it was widely know on the net it helped, would you be moaning about it?...I think not.In fact kingston / Corsair et all would have done exactly the same. Fact was we were the only guys buying the samsung IC's and they were the only ones that showed an improvement.
From you posts i see we will never win you over as a customer, but I ask you to let others judge by their own experience...most find us a nice company to work with now and many do like the products we supply and our customer service.
The micron that was used was 2100..it did not run 2700 speed very well and the review samples in the UK were actaullay samsung CTL-CB3 2700 based so who was kidding who?
Reviews were samsung and shipping modules were micron..weird eh?
This is an old story but it shows something no different to what your accusing OCZ of and this was was of your favourite ram manuafacturers.
So the 3200 samsung corsair are using in their PC4000 or used in their 3700 was actually 4000 and 3700?? i think NOT. Apples to apples m8, same shit just different day.
So corsair relabelling PC3200 to PC3700 is illegal? you seem to say so!
Regards the silver paste we did the best by our customers, and with you knowing 5% of what i know you ain't qualified to say any different. SSS commended us on what we did and agree's we could have done no more..he also knows a LOT more than you.
Regarding reviews...go search and find me one we actually bought out the hundreds posted in the last 12 months out there....you need to link to 1 review with proof.
Also if I had found that lasering the top off the package on a BH5 IC made it run 2-2-2-5 at 250fsb 2.65V and every single module did this and it was widely know on the net it helped, would you be moaning about it?...I think not.In fact kingston / Corsair et all would have done exactly the same. Fact was we were the only guys buying the samsung IC's and they were the only ones that showed an improvement.
From you posts i see we will never win you over as a customer, but I ask you to let others judge by their own experience...most find us a nice company to work with now and many do like the products we supply and our customer service.
Well I know what happened and I know exactly what was said between kyle and Ryan and i know why they fell out.
If your going to drag Kyle into this i hope you have his approval as i have PRINT SCREEN all ready to capture what he has to say.Infact let me cap all this page just in case they decide to remove it in the next 5 mins.
lopoetve said:Oh no, I never meant it to sound like that
I was just saying that, all things being equal, why would you take OCZ over Mushkin or Corsair?
Any reviews on the EB stuff?
I could post more but I think Anandtech is about THE source for truthful no BS info...not to mention non biased reviews so enjoy the read
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2057
Steve
bigtoe said:
You missed the entirety of my point. Good job
Manufacturer can rebadge 2100 as 2700 if it so chooses, they make it. If Micron told you that their PC-100 would work at 133, then fine. But they DIDN'T. OCZ relabeled the ram without confirming or checking the speeds with the maker of the chips. The result was bad parts. BTW, any links to prove this whole story about Micron? I've never even heard of it.
In regards to the silver paste, whatever. You work there, you're a little biased. What matters is OCZ didn't do the QA on it to know what it was, as they seem to fail to do often enough, and got in trouble. They're cutting corners to get the product out, again, or so it would seem. They could have easily tested the part before shipping, and it would have NEVER happened. You chose not to, and now it's your fault that it failed. You could have done more; you could have prevented it from ever happening in the first place.
It is YOUR history that you're trying to improve. The fact is, bribing happened, and it's something YOU have to live down. And every time you get close to doing so, something else happens that raises questions about the integrity of OCZ. Period.
If you found that lasering IC's helped, nice. POST THE PROOF. And why then relabel them? And what gives you the justification to change the tolerences on the plastic shielding on the IC? And why not tell people about it, so someone doesn't just stumble on it? Seems like there is something to hide there, buddy, it really does.
If a car company was famous for selling cars that blew up at times, wouldn't you warn people to avoid them? Why should I let you have an opportunity to sucker every member of the public, when I can prevent part of that?
bigtoe said:
Whatever dude. If you know something, post it. I just remember the big fallout that happened and that everyone avoided OCZ for cheating.
If you're trying to threaten me, you're doing a bad job of it.
Oh, and welcome to america, where there is freedom of speech. I can talk about what I wish to talk about, since a good deal of it was public knowledge.
There were many website gurus that became very irritated with OCZ trying to bribe their way to reviews. The details are insignificant. All that is important is that it happened, and other then adding a new disclaimer, OCZ didn't have a response that I saw.
Spec3 said:I could post more but I think Anandtech is about THE source for truthful no BS info...not to mention non biased reviews so enjoy the read
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2057
Steve
Thank you
It looks like a mixed bag of 7-9% increase at high speeds. If you're cranking the memory up, it does quite well. I'll give you that. I'd still be leery of the prior history, but it does look like it performs well, and I trust Anand.
Still don't buy the rest of their parts
lopoetve said:
There is, absolutely no better way to state the reason why OCZ should be avoided than this. This should be stickied, made into a banner, and included into every welcome e-mail sent to every new member.
May I remind people that Bill Clinton was on trial for what he DID...despite the fact he was apologizing? People still hate him for PAST actions? Don't you think a company like Corsair or Kingston are more deserving of your money? From the beginning of their existence they have always been honest and full of integrity. On top of that, they make arguably far better products? The more common sense and logic you apply to this argument, the more you realize it's a good thing to avoid OCZ.
From my perspective. I have heard nothing but good things about OCZ memory lately. All indicators suggest that OCZ has made a turnaround from their dubious ethics in the past.
That said, I will not touch OCZ ram yet. It will tale more than a year or so of good reviews to make me feel confident about a company that has cheated people in the past.
In the hardware world, reputation and trust is EVERYTHING. I need to have faith that companies I buy from will actually provide what they say they will. I know that many companies have made minor mistakes in the past (videocard makers are a good example) but OCZ has one of the most checkered pasts of any hardware company currently in business, imo.
What makes it worse for OCZ is that their main market (ram) is one in which there are numerous very reliable vendors with almost perfect records of honesty and quality. Corsair has such a good record, both with my purchases and with the purchases of others I have talked to, that I want to support them with my business. Throw in other very reliable comanies like Mushkin, Kingston, and Crucial, and it seems pointless to gamble on a company that has burned so many people in the past.
That said, I will not touch OCZ ram yet. It will tale more than a year or so of good reviews to make me feel confident about a company that has cheated people in the past.
In the hardware world, reputation and trust is EVERYTHING. I need to have faith that companies I buy from will actually provide what they say they will. I know that many companies have made minor mistakes in the past (videocard makers are a good example) but OCZ has one of the most checkered pasts of any hardware company currently in business, imo.
What makes it worse for OCZ is that their main market (ram) is one in which there are numerous very reliable vendors with almost perfect records of honesty and quality. Corsair has such a good record, both with my purchases and with the purchases of others I have talked to, that I want to support them with my business. Throw in other very reliable comanies like Mushkin, Kingston, and Crucial, and it seems pointless to gamble on a company that has burned so many people in the past.
BlindedByScience
More Human than Human
- Joined
- May 26, 2000
- Messages
- 9,225
The most common way a thread gets anchored is as I mentioned above: when it gets personal. Keep it based on the facts of the issue and there are no worries about a lock.bigtoe said:
B.B.S.