Karma finally catching up with Nvidia?

https://www.techpowerup.com/267293/...pu-revenue-hidden-away-in-the-gaming-division
Investors are angry and feel mislead about Nvidia hiding the reasons their business was booming in 2017 and 2018. Accusations are that Nvidia new the crypto boom would eventually bust and clog channels with used graphics cards. Bring on the finger pointing!

Smoked Brisket covered already : https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidi...-1-billion-of-cryptocurrency-product.1996775/
 
Does nVidia have a crypto division? Was their product they were selling at the time classified as a crypto card? If so than they hid it if not they didn’t. nVidia isn’t responsible for what their cards are used for post sale and especially not responsible if somebody uses them for something they weren’t intended for. This is a lawsuit brought on by people who are butt hurt over being burned by the crypto bubble. If nVidia looses this I’ll be upset not because I like nVidia but because it would mean they have been tracking card and system usage far beyond what is claimed in their privacy policy and the president it would set is extremely dangerous.
 
Does nVidia have a crypto division? Was their product they were selling at the time classified as a crypto card? If so than they hid it if not they didn’t. nVidia isn’t responsible for what their cards are used for post sale and especially not responsible if somebody uses them for something they weren’t intended for. This is a lawsuit brought on by people who are butt hurt over being burned by the crypto bubble. If nVidia looses this I’ll be upset not because I like nVidia but because it would mean they have been tracking card and system usage far beyond what is claimed in their privacy policy and the president it would set is extremely dangerous.
Looks like the point of the lawsuit is that they did not have a "crypto" division. They simply boasted about the booming gaming division knowing that it was a market anomaly, all the while understanding that the boom could not be sustained, making projections to investors based on a bubble they knew would burst. Oh man, a lot of unintentional alliteration there.
 
Looks like the point of the lawsuit is that they did not have a "crypto" division. They simply boasted about the booming gaming division knowing that it was a market anomaly, all the while understanding that the boom could not be sustained, making projections to investors based on a bubble they knew would burst. Oh man, a lot of unintentional alliteration there.
No boom is sustainable, no system can continue in a constant state of exponential growth. The bottom fell out faster than expected though when China and Russia slapped down laws on the stuff.
 
You'd have to be mildly retarded to not know that.
Would you though? What If you were an investor that had no interest in PC gaming and were not savvy about crypto(most people still aren't) and trusted executives telling you that this was all due to growth in gaming, your investment is rock solid. You cant see that happening?
 
Would you though? What If you were an investor that had no interest in PC gaming and were not savvy about crypto(most people still aren't) and trusted executives telling you that this was all due to growth in gaming, your investment is rock solid. You cant see that happening?
No. Investments are inherently risky and if you don’t understand the market, that’s on you.
 
Would you though? What If you were an investor that had no interest in PC gaming and were not savvy about crypto(most people still aren't) and trusted executives telling you that this was all due to growth in gaming, your investment is rock solid. You cant see that happening?
Then you would be more than "mildly retarded" for not doing any investment homework.

Even something as absolutely basic as a google search for "Why is Nvidia demand so high?" during the time would have told you all about the crypto craze. And that isnt even real homework, that is the most basic 5 second cursory glance at an investment opportunity.
 
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No, karma is catching up with ignorant people that think the stock market is a sure thing. It's also catching up with people who are dumb enough to think this is going somewhere.


Right, these are the same fools who bought-in to Bitcoin when it was surging - just t bitch and moan when it comes crashing down.

The entire Etherium rush was propped-up by online exchanges that were not trustworthy. And when this fraud was uncovered, demand came crashing down pretty suddenly. There was no way to predict how the market would behave long-term, but after sustained demand for months Nvidia finally gave-in and increased production.

Nvidia was caught with millions of unsold pascal dies, and had to discount them. How is this anything but good business practices, caught off-guard? Of course they're going to hype-up their business decisions!
 
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Would you though? What If you were an investor that had no interest in PC gaming and were not savvy about crypto(most people still aren't) and trusted executives telling you that this was all due to growth in gaming, your investment is rock solid. You cant see that happening?

You need to understand the markets you are investing in. You'd have to be either willfully ignoring evidence, neglectful in your research, or lacking basic intellect to not be able to see that a specialized use of a product, in this case graphics cards that caused a sudden temporary spike in demand for a product should not be part of a permanent demand forecast, and also that it may have demand reverberations down the line.

Here's a quote form AMDs CEO Lisa Su even stating it's not a long term growth driver: "Relative to cryptocurrency, we have seen some elevated demand," Dr. Su said. "But it's important to say we didn't have cryptocurrency in our forecast, and we're not looking at it as a long-term growth driver. But we'll certainly continue to watch the developments around the blockchain technologies as they go forwards."

This information was all public so yeah, you'd have to fit into one of my above classes if you didn't consider this as an investor.

Hell cryptominers were renting fucking jets to fly cards out
Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards: https://www.pcgamer.com/cryptocurrency-miners-are-renting-boeing-747s-to-ship-graphics-cards/

When these cryptomining operations are done with literal jumbo jets full of graphics cards what did these investors think they were going to do with them? Hang on to them? Pay for a warehouse to store them until the end of time? Just like any other business they sell off their old capital investments for value recovery. When a business closes up a location or re-tools what do they do with the stuff inside? They commonly liquidate it for money (or sell it bulk to a company that then liquidates it), one way or another that property is hitting the open market in some form. A flood of used products impacts the new product market for that sector - if you are an even marginally competent investor this is common sense.
 
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I appreciate that detailed response. Can you date the Lisa Su quote? I still think it is unfair to paint investors as retards because they were not current on crypto mining or the ins and outs of video card markets. Investors, I would argue, are rarely experts in all of the categories they invest in. Now investors get burned. However, if you give investors a knowingly false forcast that is fraud is it not?

Edit: I cringe at the word retard, and am sorry for using it. I did not bring it here.
 
I appreciate that detailed response. Can you date the Lisa Su quote? I still think it is unfair to paint investors as retards because they were not current on crypto mining or the ins and outs of video card markets. Investors, I would argue, are rarely experts in all of the categories they invest in. Now investors get burned. However, if you give investors a knowingly false forcast that is fraud is it not?

Edit: I cringe at the word retard, and am sorry for using it. I did not bring it here.

The article it was sourced from was dated July 28, 2017, so on or before then.

I'd argue that if you aren't an expert in that field, then you should know enough to consult with your own expert before investing a substantial sum of money. It's like people blaming salesmen for only telling them the good things. You need to do your own research and if you are incapable of doing so then hire your own expert do to it for you, if you get duped and didn't put the proper effort in it's your own fault.
 
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Right, these are the same fools who bought-in to Bitcoin when it was surging - just t bitch and moan when it comes crashing down.

The entire Etherium rush was propped-up by online exchanges that were not trustworthy. And when this fraud was uncovered, demand came crashing down pretty suddenly. There was no way to predict how the market would behave long-term, but after sustained demand for months Nvidia finally gave-in and increased production.

Nvidia was caught with millions of unsold pascal dies, and had to discount them. How is this anything but good business practices, caught off-guard? Of course they're going to hype-up their business decisions!
nVidia didn’t have unsold pascel cores Gigabyte And Zotac did as they were fueling much of the Chinese and Taiwanese coin market. When that crashed out they were holding those millions of chips that nVidia was forced to buy back because of their contract agreements. nVidia was pissed when that happened, pretty sure Zotac and Gigabyte are still paying for that having been bumped down the priority list for chip deliveries after that.
 
Does nVidia have a crypto division? Was their product they were selling at the time classified as a crypto card? If so than they hid it if not they didn’t. nVidia isn’t responsible for what their cards are used for post sale and especially not responsible if somebody uses them for something they weren’t intended for. This is a lawsuit brought on by people who are butt hurt over being burned by the crypto bubble. If nVidia looses this I’ll be upset not because I like nVidia but because it would mean they have been tracking card and system usage far beyond what is claimed in their privacy policy and the president it would set is extremely dangerous.
precedent. I agree. Investors should have some awareness of market situations that are impacting a company.
 
I'm not going to research this, but disclosure is important in the finical world , especially when there are significant deviations from regular business.

If they disclosed in the minutes or footnotes it should be rock solid for Nvidia. If they did improper disclosure with agreement form the auditors, sue the auditors as well. This will likely be settled if it is serious, or you will hear about it in 5-10 years.
 
I had some discussions about this a couple years ago and mentioned this would come back on them. Of course did not have enough solid evidence to do an article, not I considered it.
How would you characterize investors that feel misled?
 
This may lead to some ridicule, but it does bother me to see some arguing Nvidia's legal firmament rather than what is right or wrong.
 
This may lead to some ridicule, but it does bother me to see some arguing Nvidia's legal firmament rather than what is right or wrong.
I think don’t be a retard summed that up nicely.
In investing being uninformed is wrong, and you’ll pay. You find that moral high ground and I’ll take the cash.
 
I don't get how Nvidia is culpable in the mining crash/craze. To pretend that only Nvidia knew that a crash was inevitable is pretty ignorant. We're in a capitalist market as well, so them (along with AMD) profiting off of it is hardly a crime or even warrants any form of bad karma.
 
I don't get how Nvidia is culpable in the mining crash/craze. To pretend that only Nvidia knew that a crash was inevitable is pretty ignorant. We're in a capitalist market as well, so them (along with AMD) profiting off of it is hardly a crime or even warrants any form of bad karma.

The legal argument isn't that Nvidia is culpable for the mining crash. It's that they're culpable for lying to their investors about how much crypto-mining sales contributed to Nvidia's revenue. And if they did lie to their investors, as their investors allege, then they are culpable for that.
 
NVIDIA investors have recently filed a suit against the company, claiming that NVIDIA wrongfully detailed its revenue indicators between departments.

What a stupid premise. Nvidia has no crypto department. Which other department besides gaming should have reported the revenue? If Cyberpunk 2077 drives an increase in sales should they also create a separate division for it?
 
Investors at the time were unlikely to have anticipated the crypto boom and therefore would have had no reason to suspect Nvidia was lying about the state of gaming, especially as gaming has become more popular over the years and that is something investors would have known about. Investors only win this case if they have some damning evidence (whistle blower, leaked documents) that proves Nvidia lied when giving guidance.
 
Investors at the time were unlikely to have anticipated the crypto boom and therefore would have had no reason to suspect Nvidia was lying about the state of gaming, especially as gaming has become more popular over the years and that is something investors would have known about. Investors only win this case if they have some damning evidence (whistle blower, leaked documents) that proves Nvidia lied when giving guidance.

Or, if they get the jury trial they're requesting and the jury deems Nvidia should have to pay them.
 
How would anyone know that the Crypto boom would go bust?? Any smart investor would already know that with investment comes risk. I'm sure Nvidia and AMD both played up how well the crypto boom was helping their sales, but any inference to future performance would always be predicated with a "we think", not a "we know".

I expect nVidia will win this suit.
 
How would anyone know that the Crypto boom would go bust?? Any smart investor would already know that with investment comes risk. I'm sure Nvidia and AMD both played up how well the crypto boom was helping their sales, but any inference to future performance would always be predicated with a "we think", not a "we know".

The investors allege the opposite: That Nvidia heavily downplayed how much impact crypto-sales had on their revenue. They aren't suing Nvidia because crypto-sales didn't remain strong, but because Nvidia told them Nvidia's sales were based on gamers and not crypto-mining and so their revenue wouldn't be impacted by a decrease in crypto-mining.
 
The investors allege the opposite: That Nvidia heavily downplayed how much impact crypto-sales had on their revenue. They aren't suing Nvidia because crypto-sales didn't remain strong, but because Nvidia told them Nvidia's sales were based on gamers and not crypto-mining and so their revenue wouldn't be impacted by a decrease in crypto-mining.

Well, over time that is likely true. I still doubt the viability of a lawsuit, nvidia stock is doing better than ever. The suers probably have to prove harm. Google "nvidia stock price history" then click on 1 year, 5 year, max tabs. it is >$350

The three top stories are:
Nvidia Disguised $1B in 'Fickle' Crypto Mining Sales as Gaming Revenue, Lawsuit Claims - CoinDesk

CoinDesk
1 day ago
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Nvidia Has Soared This Year. It Isn’t Too Late to Buy, Analyst Says


Barron's
1 day ago
1589981116309.jpeg
Expect Earnings to Highlight the Potential of Nvidia Stock


So one story about this same topic, which concerns crypto revenue and that was in 2018 right? Next story, nvidia stock is soaring "This year" which it is. Nvidia stock dropped from ~$260 end of 2018 to ~$130 in early 2019, and that was the entire market that took a shit, not just Nvidia. And now it is >$350, no Crypto boom to "blame" for the spike...
 
Or, if they get the jury trial they're requesting and the jury deems Nvidia should have to pay them.
That may happen. After reading some of the lawsuit I think the investors actually have solid footing to pursue this. I originally thought this had to do with the initial crypto boom, but it was actually the second mini-boom that is being referred to in the lawsuit. The following is taken from the lawsuit and illustrates Nvidia's deceit.

"And third, Defendants represented that NVIDIA’s cryptocurrency-related revenues were contained primarily in the Company’s OEM reporting segment, when in fact, almost two-thirds of such revenue came from GeForce sales recorded in its Gaming segment. These representations were materially false and misleading and concealed from investors the enormous risk to NVIDIA’s financial results posed by the Company’s outsized exposure to crypto-mining."

TL;DR - Nvidia gave false guidance, are being sued, will likely lose.
 
Investors have a right to sue and should, but man investors deserved it for two reasons:
1. Not paying attention to the real reason for their success (as already mentioned here)
2. Not doing enough research on the company's history of shady stuff and trusting their words at face value
 
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Would you though? What If you were an investor that had no interest in PC gaming and were not savvy about crypto(most people still aren't) and trusted executives telling you that this was all due to growth in gaming, your investment is rock solid. You cant see that happening?
I hate greedy bastards who do not know shit about an investment, only that it is "hot". That causes the prices to skyrocket for lesser mortals.
 
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