Kaby Lake crap TIM , WHY ?

Peter2k said:
Coollaboratory
Liquid Pro/Ultra Thermal Compound

Tim_test_update1.png



Im embarrassed that my grease is down at the bottom, debit card out tomorrow and off with the water block !
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Shintai said:
Using Liquid Metal isn't a solution tho for a commercial product or a system that's vertical ;)

In most cases its not about the TIM, but about the gap.
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I know this post is nearly a month old, but I have to share some of my results on this whole " you cant use LM or LMU on a vertical setup" nonsense..I have used it on well over ~15 de-lidded direct die mounts in a standard ATX MB, and at least 10 re-lidded setups, going back to 2012...I haven't had a single failure, and we are knocking on the door of 5 years of use here...

The stuff doesn't run like water guys..I use a cheap throw away water color brush, and lightly coat the entire die before mounting the water block or re-lidding..
 
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ccityinstaller said:
I know this post is nearly a month old, but I have to share some of my results on this whole " you cant use LM or LMU on a vertical setup" nonsense..I have used it on well over ~15 de-lidded direct die mounts in a standard ATX MB, and at least 10 re-lidded setups, going back to 2012...I haven't had a single failure, and we are knocking on the door of 5 years of use here...

The stuff doesn't run like water guys..I use a cheap throw away water color brush, and lightly coat the entire die before mounting the water block or re-lidding..
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So you also create a setup that cant be used in a commercial product. Either no lid or relidded directly on the die using a razor thin layer. You have to think on what would work for everyone in any situation. Including lasting for 10 years+.
 
Shintai said:
So you also create a setup that cant be used in a commercial product. Either no lid or relidded directly on the die using a razor thin layer. You have to think on what would work for everyone in any situation. Including lasting for 10 years+.
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Where in my OP did I say anything about creating a "setup that cannot be used in a commercial product?" I simply stated that the claim you and others have made about CL and CLU "leaking" and ruining systems is FUD. Period. I offered my experience on 25 systems that use this very setup without a problem. I think you like to argue just for the sake of arguing..Thank God I didn't mention AMD in my post :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.........
 
ccityinstaller said:
Where in my OP did I say anything about creating a "setup that cannot be used in a commercial product?" I simply stated that the claim you and others have made about CL and CLU "leaking" and ruining systems is FUD. Period. I offered my experience on 25 systems that use this very setup without a problem. I think you like to argue just for the sake of arguing..Thank God I didn't mention AMD in my post :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.........
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So what happens when you cant use a razor thin layer? Either it runs or is solidifies doesn't it?
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ne-through-the-roof-after-few-months.2419707/
http://www.coollaboratory.com/pdf/manual_liquid_pro_englisch.pdf
 
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-PK- said:
Most people recommend CLU under the IHS and TIM on top of IHS because otherwise that happens (too many metal reactions with aluminum/copper).
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You know it's funny that it's actually mentioned that the ultra solidifies in the manual

at the end of the second page


at 48 hours it consolidates

changing the already good heat conduction for the better, also safer
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SomeGuy133 said:
but isn't intel a crook though ;) forcing us to cut silly corners for things to work like it is 1999?
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Vote with your wallet. I don't think anyone at Intel made you buy anything.
 
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Folterknecht said:
Open the video description (show more) - everything named and linked (amazon / caseking.de) there.

You can also come to http://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...-ohne-hs-mit-gewechseltem-tim-891243-346.html and ask him there. His username is "Stullen Andi" - nice guy btw.
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Thank you very much Folterknecht (y)

It´s me, Stullen Andi from Hardwareluxx Forum. The TIM I´am using to apply on the core is Phobya Liquid Metall or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. The Coollaboratory stuff I only used once cause it´s not as good as the phobya or conductonaut stuff.

Here you can see how easy it is to apply it to the die, but I am not using the brush that comes with the tim.

 
/dev/null said:
If it is not running at stock specification then sure, you have every right to RMA it. I'm not sure what the problem or disagreement is.

The "TIM BEING CRAP" designation is from this thread, as far as I've seen is due to people overclocking or delidding, both which throw warranty out the window (well, unless you purchase the Intel overclocking warranty add-on...is that still around btw?). Even so, no overclock is guaranteed.

You do realize the boost for 1 core is higher than 2/3/4 in most cases, right?
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being advertised as an overclocking chip (K) and cutting edge while cutting corners that cripples its performance is not something you should accept so stop spewing your crap
 
olDirdey said:
Thank you very much Folterknecht (y)

It´s me, Stullen Andi from Hardwareluxx Forum. The TIM I´am using to apply on the core is Phobya Liquid Metall or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. The Coollaboratory stuff I only used once cause it´s not as good as the phobya or conductonaut stuff.

Here you can see how easy it is to apply it to the die, but I am not using the brush that comes with the tim.

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mmm

that technique to stretch it out in a line and then spreading it to the sides, nice
gonna remember that whenever I have to redo mine (if I have to that is, happy with my OC)

first time on my air cooler and on Skylake I used liquid ultra

but some time back I ordered LM from Phobya and with my Kaby and an AiO I used the Phobya this time around (between DIE and IHS and the IHS and AiO)

I'm sure you get asked a lot
any long term experience you've come across, or heard regarding the coollaboratory or Phobya stuff?

though seeing on the Hardwareluxx Forum youre rather experienced in delidding :ROFLMAO:
any first hand knowledge / opinion / experience would be appreciated (as youre test samples seem rather high :D )
 
I tried a few ways to apply the tim on the die and spreader and for me it was the easiest way to do it with a "wattestäbchen", I think you call it cotton bud.

The very first application I used the coollaboratory stuff too, but after this I only used the phobya and conductonaut lm, cause it you got a few degrees better result.

As far as I know the delidding starts in 2012 in hwluxx forum and there are cpus I know that running more than 3 years without a problem. My first cpu is working 1 and a half year without any difference in temp.

I think the key is to apply the lm to a very clean surface and leave a gap while glueing. This one here had no gap and I think not enaugh pressure while remounting the IHS and this cpu starts to raise temp after a few months. I got it for reapplying LM.

But even this is fixable with some cleaning. The Liquid Metall on the IHS was dry and needed some heavy force to remove.

p1130473u6stz.jpg


p1130480posif.jpg


p113048295s2s.jpg
 
olDirdey said:
As far as I know the delidding starts in 2012 in hwluxx forum and there are cpus I know that running more than 3 years without a problem. My first cpu is working 1 and a half year without any difference in temp.
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Actually it dates back to 2003. Ask me how I know. ;)
 
olDirdey said:
Hehe, I can remember people that even milled the IHS from P4 down, but what I mean is the following thread. It started as the Ivybridge cpu were released and delidding was more common.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communi...ngen-ohne-hs-mit-gewechseltem-tim-891243.html

Tell me the story from 2003 :D I am reading the forum since 2002 but don´t remember everything.
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cotton tip/q-tip i think is what you mean above.

He showed a picture further above of him delidding a 478 socket chip IIRC

I like the idea of using 5-10K grit paper/cloth to get better contact.

I have 1-3/5K paper and a 8K IIRC cloth. The cloth is for diamond polishing.

6/8K is like 1 micron particle size.

Problem is applying even pressure and not making it worse.
 
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SomeGuy133 said:
Problem is applying even pressure and not making it worse.
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Always had luck with putting the sand paper down on a thick glass mirror and then lapping the IHS on that. Nice and flat.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
lapping...what do you mean?

my point is event with a "straight edge" its hard/impossible to apply 100% equal pressure.....not sure how to explain this in words lol.
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I know what you are saying. Physics...I get it.

"Lapping" is the process we use to flatten out IHS parts. And yes, while it is impossible to get "flat" a lot of times in the past the IHS was nowhere close to being flat.

This is exactly how we used to do it.



I would however suggest using a circular motion to wet sand however...

I did address the flatness of the KL IHS today in our review. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/02/02/intel_kaby_lake_i57600k_cpu_delid_relid_temp_results
 
Also, if you lap it down to a mirror finish, you can then use a piece of graph paper to check for flatness as well.

1351693272ZeNpxmp4Kx_2_5_l.jpg
 
SomeGuy133 said:
are you being sarcastic?

that was a question....did you take photo? to me it looks like graph paper has bubbles.
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Sorry, missed the question.

Yes, that is a picture we took. No, we do not used bubbled up paper for that test. The paper is flat on a desktop.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
Dude!!!....It was a legitiment question. I am trying to understand how it works because i would like to try it....chill pill

I was simply asking if i was understanding the photo right...damn man
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Put a piece of graph paper down on a flat surface. Look at the reflection in the mirror finish. Are the blocks in the reflection still square? If yes, it is "flat." If no, then it is not "flat." Does that help you understand better? I am not sure of what you are confused about. Sorry for my snapping at you. Please post your question here and I will try to answer it.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
my question is about angles and distortions. Like are the squares going to look more trapezoid on the upper parts? or is that not an issue?

I am curious about the angle of reflection causing distortion. Did you notice that as being an issue?

I assume we are looking at only single squares and not the whole image?

Sorry is the trapezoid distortion making sense? :/
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I really do not know brother. When we had wavy mating surfaces it was an easy way to show it to our readers.
 
So the lines are only good if they are straight.. bunch of homophobics around here. gay cobber-bases are cobber-bases too you know.
 
So what do you guys think are the chances that the newly rumored i7-7740K and i5-7640K have better TIM?
 
Intel will probably keep using epoxy for Enthusiast/HDET CPUs and still giving bad Thermal interface to rmainstream
 
exlink said:
So what do you guys think are the chances that the newly rumored i7-7740K and i5-7640K have better TIM?
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I doubt they would use higher quality TIM on the lower end CPU's.

I think there is also an issue with the Z height which is the distance of the die to the IHS. Removing the glue or whatever they use helps the IHS sit closer to the die.
 
damstr said:
I doubt they would use higher quality TIM on the lower end CPU's.

I think there is also an issue with the Z height which is the distance of the die to the IHS. Removing the glue or whatever they use helps the IHS sit closer to the die.
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silicon lottery said its merely a lack of application pressure which is why it seats too high.
 
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