Just What does Intel Have up Its Sleeve in Response to Ryzen?

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Zarathustra[H], Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Well, a little birdie has whispered in our ears, not much. This reportedly showed up on Intel's intranet this past week:

    Could we be seeing a repeat of the K7/Netburst era with Intel having to play catch-up for a change? Maybe abandoning their tick-tock strategy and keeping 8th generation Core chips on 14nm in the face of limited competition to their x86 products was a little premature?

    If their response to Ryzen is to emphasize low end i3 chips and features such as their new Optane high speed storage technology, instead of high end CPU's, the answer to that could be "maybe".
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  2. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    If it came to that I wonder if they would resort to their past deeds like for ex. how they dealt with AMD last time? They have some pretty large coffers. The outcome was pretty favorable to Intel even with all the fines and penalties lol.
     
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  3. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yeah, Intel has a long history of doing semi-questionable legal things, but would they really risk doing that again? All eyes are going to be on them after the last time, and the courts are generally not too kind to repeat offenders.
     
  4. -Strelok-

    -Strelok- [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ryzen looks solid, but I don't see it smashing everything Intel has.
     
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  5. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hell yea they would. The fine is only money which they have more than they know what to do with. Look at the two decades after K7/Netburst. Where is Intel now after paying 1.5bil in fines or more and where is AMD? Which company would you have rather been, Intel or AMD going into 2010?
     
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  6. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I understand that. And I know settlements like those are a cost of doing business for Intel, when the true damages to their competitors are many times greater. I just wouldn't want to have to defend doing the same thing, to the same company again in court. Chances are that would piss off the judge, resulting in a much bigger penalty than last time.
     
  7. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is turning clearly into the best possible outcome, not for AMD but for .... us, the consumers. It's a major victory. I just built a new $2000+ system with the new 7700K Kaby Lake. I don't really have too much regret but I'm to the point now that I just want to support AMD. I think they deserve it.

    I've already got my new system up on craigslist and will adjust the price here this next week to sale it quickly.

    Great job AMD.
     
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  8. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Psst, read your link... after the fines which we know are peanuts to Intel, all they were required to do was to promise not to do it again. The most telling snippet is from Intel.
     
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  9. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Agreed. I'm not a fanboy for either side. Both AMD and Intel have done some troubling things, Intel has their whole "maintain market dominance through deepest pockets lawsuits of everyone in the world" background, and AMD has irked me with their disingenuous marketing and use of questionable benchmarks in their presentations. While I do have some warm feelings for AMD based on my fond memories of the K7 era, they aren't exactly the totally innocent underdog either. The best thing for all of us - however - is to have two strong companies in the x86 space competing with each other and playing leapfrog as far as CPU performance and cost goes.

    I certainly hope we see this going forward, and AMD's seeming success with Ryzen (I say seeming, as I have not yet seen final official benchmarks) is not short-lived, but helps change the industry and make it more competitive.
     
  10. Whach

    Whach [H]ard|Gawd

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    Isn't competition great? =)
     
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  11. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Gawd

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    Does anyone really believe that Ryzen is going to break Intel somehow? Man...I mean, great for AMD for getting back in the race - we all need them to be competitive - but this does not equate to Intel hurting in some way. Intel have gotten complacent and it might be easy to argue they have been price gouging, but it would be crazy to think they won't respond easily.
     
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  12. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    Bribes. Lots of bribes.
     
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  13. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think anyone thinks Intel is gonna break from this. Remember back then, AMD was killing Intel in engineering finesse, killing them. That's not the environment today obviously.
     
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  14. azuza001

    azuza001 Gawd

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    Agreed. If amd was 3x faster than Intel it would not matter from Intels cash and market share pov. And we all know ryzen isn't 3x faster, amd isn't where it was back then, and Intel could simply win in a price war.

    And I like amd. Still use an old gateway with a phenom for over the air video recording and Web streaming. Still have my original 64bit socket 939 system in the closet, and my Athlon 2500+ Barton on my key ring (killed in the line of duty..... Overclocked to death)

    Go amd, but be aware that waking the sleeping giant would be bad. Just steal some of its stuff, don't try and move in.
     
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  15. sir-gold

    sir-gold Gawd

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    It doesn't have to be better, it only has to be equal but at a lower price.
     
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  16. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    Ya just steal the golden cup. He wont notice.

    Who has the black arrow handy just in case?

    Even if AMD is even, slightly ahead even, Intel still has the name.

    Server markets are the big bucks, no?

    Everywhere I have worked in a big company has been hundreds of HP boxes full of intel cpu's.

    I am already putting aside parts for my new Ryzen system though. :)

    Have a 500gb m.2
    Just ordered two sticks of 16gb 3200 ddr4
    Have a new PSU in the closet for a while now
    Got a WD Blue 4tb HD - slow, but good enough for movies and bulk data

    Just need tp pick a case, order the CPU and decide what MOBO

    I like Asus but want one with 2+ m.2 slots if I can find a decent one.
     
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  17. sir-gold

    sir-gold Gawd

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    I still have a (theoretically still working) motherboard with a soldered-on AMD 386 DX-40 (from my very first PC).
     
  18. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    honestly though they don't need to smash them, especially now with the deal they have with intel paying for a bunch of their gpu technology. they just need to win back a portion of the market, while they continue to pocket money from intel.
     
  19. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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  20. Johan Steyn

    Johan Steyn [H]Lite

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    People say that they don't care what happens because whatever happens, it will be good for customers. Are you even serious? That is true only in the short term. The rubbish tactics Intel used screwed everybody for more ten years. Intel is evil and even say that they used questionable legal practices is putting it lightly. They used illegal practices, otherwise the courts would not have found them guilty and their CEO even said that he was not sorry and would do it again. The fine was not even a slap on the wrist for Intel. They effectively killed AMD and even now it is questionable if AMD can still survive, especially if Intel is going to repeat what they did. They want AMD to just survive, barely breathing, keeping monopoly laws at bay.

    They actually are glad AMD came up with a bit of spunk. They are not one bit scared. They have so much money that they can kill AMD in a second, but they will just suffocate them a little bit. They'll let AMD make a bit of money to recover a bit from bankruptcy.

    I've read many people say that it was not Intel's bad practices that killed AMD, but their excellent technology. It is only true in a sense. People that say that have never run their own businesses. They do not even understand the word morale. I remember how I struggled to get customers Athlon motherboards and that was even before Athlon 64. Intel squeezed manufacturers with discounts and forbade them to manufacture motherboards. I bought Asus motherboards, but they came in white boxes, with zero logos on the box or the motherboard. Asus made these under the table. Intel's tactic worked and AMD did not make enough money to spend on RND etc. Not only that, they killed the morale at AMD and finished them off with Conroe. After Conroe, AMD lost confidence and enthusiasm. Now people say that AMD just did not have the technology. How absolutely ignorant of them.

    Intel will not let AMD win this battle. This is sad, a sad state this whole stinking planet is in. People just do not know the evil these companies are capable of. People are generally evil and to think Intel will play nice, is just a fable.

    Intel has sown a lot of evil and one day hopefully they will reap it. I really hope AMD survives this round though. They have produced a really great CPU.
     
  21. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes and no. People don't upgrade CPUs nearly as much as they did a decade + ago. For a lot of people, an i5 or i7 they have been using for 3 years is good enough and they'd rather put money into GPUs, peripherals and other things. Obviously it will gain a more sales and more people will upgrade this year than the last few, but unlike the early 2000s, even 3+ year old CPUs are very good for most tasks.
     
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  22. Wolfkin

    Wolfkin [H]ard|Gawd

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    3 years? Try 5 years, my i7 3770K is still going strong and I don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Though those new AMD Ryzen do look nice.
     
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  23. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't be surprised that Intel doesn't have anything to compete against Ryzen for at least a year or two. I also don't think they'll stay behind either. Isn't this exactly what we're looking for? An actual competition?

    I've just got a 7700K, so I'm not looking to upgrade at all, but if this competition stays strong. My next build will be probably be pretty sweet. Not some little 2-5% performance increase. Although I upgraded off of an i5 Ivy Bridge, so my performance increase was pretty big this time around.
     
  24. toyRaYgUn

    toyRaYgUn n00b

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    Same here. Also sporting a 3770K and am still satisfied. Favored AMD in the past and would be nice to see them compete in the top CPU tiers.
     
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  25. csgill75

    csgill75 [H]Lite

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    I'm still running my 2009 PC build. A AMD 1100t. No real reason to change it since it does everything I need to do. Runs windows 10 very well with a SSD and 970 gtx I can play everything I want to play when it comes to gaming. I would definitely throw some money to AMD for a new build though but I'll wait for a few months.
     
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  26. PanzeR-

    PanzeR- Limp Gawd

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    Currently have a 3570k, therefore going i7 or amd 6-8 cores will be a substantial upgrade, in no hurry to upgrade tho, waiting on reviews!
     
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  27. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It is impressive how fast people forget what happened or stay in denial due to company loyalty. So many people don't understand the consequences of what happened and how them breaking the law as extensively as they did basically changed the course of technology history. Anyway, watch, I bet somebody will rush to their defense and say none of this mattered because AMD made mistakes (which it did), completely ignoring the fact that Intel broke the law repeatedly on a global scale. People should have gone to jail for what they did, instead, it solidified market dominance. As for them being evil, it's debatable. For me, a company being evil has to willfully or through negligence get people killed or else ruin peoples' lives irreparably. By that metric, I don't know if Intel is evil, just unethical and law-breaking.
     
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  28. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris [H]ard as it Gets

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  29. tbonepat11

    tbonepat11 Limp Gawd

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    Intel cutting prices to be competitive is their response. We already won. Free market capitalism at its best.
     
  30. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    The conspiracy nut in the back of my head says "nine generations of processors waiting to be released is their weapon" but I'm pretty sure that guy is insane.
     
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  31. Susquehannock

    Susquehannock 2[H]4U

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    What does Intel have, roughly 80-85% of the processor market? If Ryzen does create a paradigm shift and the world flocks to their doorstep, does AMD really have the production facilities and supply chain to handle it? Seems to me that is the question here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  32. King of Heroes

    King of Heroes [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'll be interested to see how many people will actually buy AMD (AMD makes money, which keeps competition going) or just buy Intel once they cut prices (AMD makes no money, which kills competition when AMD goes under).
     
  33. mjz_5

    mjz_5 2[H]4U

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    Amazing. I stick to AMD for that reason as well. Whatever the outcome of the new, I'm sure it will be good enough for my needs.
     
  34. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know this is more a fantasy thought for all sorts of reasons.

    It'd be nice if they just took a 1-2 years off from the non-server side of things. The consumer side of things has been more 'meh' then anything for the last 3-5 years.

    It's been nice seeing the 7600-7700's hitting 5+GHZ but aside from that the nickel and dime approach with a few percentage point gains in performance vs. power and a couple of new features has been old for awhile now. I've been running intel since 8086 days and a couple of AMD's way, way back. I've been pretty underwhelmed since the 2nd generations "I" series.
     
  35. In the server market, where the real bread and butter is these days, Ryzen smashes just about everything Intel has to offer in terms of price/performance. If they start offering custom chips like Intel does, Intel will see some serious pricing pressure.
     
  36. Monkey God

    Monkey God Mangina Full of Sand

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    Giant stacks of money for one. Even if AMD hits 90% of the performance of an Intel CPU for half the price, all Intel has to do is cut prices. If they dont have an engineering solution immediately available they have enough money to burn to buy time to come up with one.

    AMD is way too far behind to leapfrog Intel and even if they did it wont matter. It will help consumers though by driving down prices.
     
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  37. 3770K at 4.4GHz and still rock stable myself. HOWEVER 16 logical cores sounds like a nice little upgrade. This is especially true if I can get it to about 4.2 to 4.4GHz OC
     
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  38. Domingo

    Domingo Skip My Posts

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    Hopefully more on-chip DRM!
     
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  39. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    I doubt optane is going to do anything worthwhile.
    I thought they were adding 2 cores to their highend desktop lineup in a year or two already. Maybe i'm mistaken
     
  40. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    coffee lake was supposed to have 6 cores on mainstream.

    they should get a hold of Jim Keller and ditch the nehalem architecture.