Just read something disturbing about Windows 11

Not surprising. Plus there are a ton of apps on by default that don't need to be. Not really sure how this is news.
 
Wonder if Shutup10/11 can stop some of it. I have it installed on my Win10 desktop and on my Win11 laptop.
 
There's a simple solution for this. Use Windows 7 and simply don't install the couple of updates for it that add in telemetry. The handful of DX12 only games that aren't able to be run in 7 really aren't even very good in my opinion.
 
Deadjasper said:
It send telemetry not only to Microsoft but also to a slew of third parties.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-11-sends-user-data-to-third-party-services
Click to expand...

I'm just curious... Do you have a phone? Because phones send a LOT more data to a LOT more places than your computer does, including your exact location at all times, audio recordings, pictures of you sitting on your toilet, etc. Microsoft was way late to this party, and still collects far less info. For a while, Microsoft probably assumed that people actually cared. But then Apple and Google demonstrated that 99.9% of people don't care... so they jumped on the bandwagon.

Did you complain about Google and Apple? If not, why did you wait until now to complain? The data collection ship has sailed at this point, and nothing short of aggressive new legislation is going to change that (which isn't going to happen due to lobbyists). If you want to use Win7, an obsolete OS from multiple decades ago... good luck. I'd rather be sending tracking/advertising data to Microsoft than sending data to China and North Korea because my insecure OS got infected.
 
GotNoRice said:
If you want to use Win7, an obsolete OS from multiple decades ago... good luck. I'd rather be sending tracking/advertising data to Microsoft than sending data to China and North Korea because my insecure OS got infected.
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If you don't know how to keep Windows 7 secured from infections then you shouldn't be using any form of Windows at all. Windows 11 isn't immune to infections either by the way. This is precisely the use case that Chromebooks are for. It's easy to keep Windows 7 secure *if* you're an expert. Unfortunately however a very small minority of PC users are and fully surrender their information to Microsoft, Apple and Google telemetry instead.
 
ZodaEX said:
There's a simple solution for this. Use Windows 7 and simply don't install the couple of updates for it that add in telemetry. The handful of DX12 only games that aren't able to be run in 7 really aren't even very good in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Man gtfo with your windows 7 bullshit. You should be using Linux instead of you refuse to use windows 10/11.
 
Smh, this video. This author is making several mistakes with how they went about this and then says, 'I could keep going all day' without even recognizing the the flaws with the comparison or at worst knowing them and misleading the audience.

Points:

- Doesn't detail how the system was configured, neither in the video or description. Nothing about Windows license type, either, just 'W11'. Windows systems have user onboarding screens where the user configures some initial settings on new installs—including various telemetry options and whether they've created a user login using a Microsoft account or local (non-Microsoft) account. These things on their own will absolutely be a factor in what traffic is being sent for a fresh install.

- 'Brand new system with nothing installed' is misleading. Windows since v10 at least (I didn't notice it on 8.1 Pro but can't speak for Home edition) has bundled various apps, including ridiculous things like Candy Crush which one can find past reports of being added to the startup apps. Such programs on their own will be influencing traffic if any part of them is set to run. Pro version installs from ISO images (at least with W10) in my experience lack such third-party bundleware.

- Off the bat when in Wireshark framing traffic as 'let's find out who's spying on us'. Does this sound like an impartial source?

- They point out a geo.prod domain of Microsoft's and without bothering to check what it is comment 'I guess that's geolocation tracking'. Literally the first search result for this domain explains that it's content delivery optimization based on a user's region, making content pull from servers that are closer (ie: faster). They're not showing they actually care what these are but rather showing they feel like they can take liberties to characterize anything since they likely expect their audience dislikes modern Windows.

- It has been pointed out by users that W11 comes with widgets, various of which are internet-facing and would be contributing to such traffic. Since the author isn't realizing/acknowledging/disclosing such factors it isn't taken into consideration in their video.

- Compares OneTrust domain to Orwell's 1984 un-ironically while again not bothering to do research into who they are, just glances at their home page and continues with their prior assumptions. From what I can see the company exists to facilitate services to comply with the EU's GDPR and California's privacy regulations—and looking at GDPR and privacy advocate feedback from results it does an excellent job. Yet here is being mischaracterized by the author without any hesitation.

- They stop there with W11. That's the extent of their 'analysis' that leads them to write the title 'Has Windows become spyware?'.

- They compare to Windows XP which didn't had such W10 telemetry options onboarding, native widgets, third-party bundleware or other such background tasks and marvel that there's less internet traffic by default.

---

I don't even like what Microsoft did with W10's telemetry, which neither did the German government when they created a taskforce to determine how it could be best mitigated, but this type of video is so shallow and bereft of accurate or useful/actionable info that it's pointless.
 
Okatis said:
Smh, this video. This author is making several mistakes with how they went about this and then says, 'I could keep going all day' without even recognizing the the flaws with the comparison or at worst knowing them and misleading the audience.

Points:

- Doesn't detail how the system was configured, neither in the video or description. Nothing about Windows license type, either, just 'W11'. Windows systems have user onboarding screens where the user configures some initial settings on new installs—including various telemetry options and whether they've created a user login using a Microsoft account or local (non-Microsoft) account. These things on their own will absolutely be a factor in what traffic is being sent for a fresh install.
Click to expand...
Valid points, but we can assume it represents a typical OEM all-enabled install that is representative of most Win 11 installs.

Okatis said:
- 'Brand new system with nothing installed' is misleading. Windows since v10 at least (I didn't notice it on 8.1 Pro but can't speak for Home edition) has bundled various apps, including ridiculous things like Candy Crush which one can find past reports of being added to the startup apps. Such programs on their own will be influencing traffic if any part of them is set to run. Pro version installs from ISO images (at least with W10) in my experience lack such third-party bundleware.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's terrible and has no place in a fresh OS install in any form.

Okatis said:
- Off the bat when in Wireshark framing traffic as 'let's find out who's spying on us'. Does this sound like an impartial source?
Click to expand...
It's not exactly an unknown yet to be determined. Only the extent.

Okatis said:
- They point out a geo.prod domain of Microsoft's and without bothering to check what it is comment 'I guess that's geolocation tracking'. Literally the first search result for this domain explains that it's content delivery optimization based on a user's region, making content pull from servers that are closer (ie: faster). They're not showing they actually care what these are but rather showing they feel like they can take liberties to characterize anything since they likely expect their audience dislikes modern Windows.
Click to expand...
So...just like geo tracking.

Okatis said:
- It has been pointed out by users that W11 comes with widgets, various of which are internet-facing and would be contributing to such traffic. Since the author isn't realizing/acknowledging/disclosing such factors it isn't taken into consideration in their video.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like anything extra was enabled post install so there wouldn't be anything to disclose.

Okatis said:
- Compares OneTrust domain to Orwell's 1984 un-ironically while again not bothering to do research into who they are, just glances at their home page and continues with their prior assumptions. From what I can see the company exists to facilitate services to comply with the EU's GDPR and California's privacy regulations—and looking at GDPR and privacy advocate feedback from results it does an excellent job. Yet here is being mischaracterized by the author without any hesitation.
Click to expand...
An OS would comply with data protection regulations by...not sending out data in the first place. This is not a positive.

Okatis said:
- They stop there with W11. That's the extent of their 'analysis' that leads them to write the title 'Has Windows become spyware?'.
Click to expand...
You left out several other issues reported in the video

Okatis said:
- They compare to Windows XP which didn't had such W10 telemetry options onboarding, native widgets, third-party bundleware or other such background tasks and marvel that there's less internet traffic by default.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
 
Honestly I would love to know how much data is sent from windows 10 vs. windows 11. If it's basically the exact same and M$ was transparent about it more people would probably switch to 11 if they saw it made no difference.
 
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SpongeBob said:
Honestly I would love to know how much data is sent from windows 10 vs. windows 11. If it's basically the exact same and M$ was transparent about it more people would probably switch to 11 if they saw it made no difference.
Click to expand...
Microsoft will come clean only when Google, Facebook, and Twitter come clean. In other words, Waiting for Godot, or for hell to freeze over. [put in your favorite phrase here]
 
SpongeBob said:
Honestly I would love to know how much data is sent from windows 10 vs. windows 11. If it's basically the exact same and M$ was transparent about it more people would probably switch to 11 if they saw it made no difference.
Click to expand...
"We collect the same data. Sure, your CPU may drop a core, your GPU might suck, you may not be able to tweak certain things anymore... but other than that, sooo much better."
 
LOL - after showing that video ^ makes you want to go back to XP. I can't control or get rid of all the telemetry in 10/11, but using Shutup10/11 does stop some of it. The other option is to use NTLite and manually remove the junk they install. Also, the new MS Edge is nothing but a hog sending all your browsing history to MS. I refuse to use it and I also refuse to use Chrome. I'm stuck with FireFox and Brave for now.
 
It's such a benefit for them all to spy, it's like a drug they can't stop.
 
Meeho said:
Valid points, but we can assume it represents a typical OEM all-enabled install that is representative of most Win 11 installs.
Click to expand...

If we follow with this assumption various telemetry is enabled out of the box, which everyone knows has been an issue with W10 (and retroactively with their prior OSes via updates) so what has this got to do with W11 specifically or even the domains they point out? When one takes into consideration how they've presented everything it doesn't show they care as much about accuracy than about stirring an audience reaction for views.


Meeho said:
It's not exactly an unknown yet to be determined. Only the extent.
Click to expand...

The type of mindset they wanted for the audience of this video is to uncritically accept their framing of whatever they show, regardless of accuracy. They recognize there's a percentage out there who already dislike Microsoft and things they've done to Windows mostly since W10 and also an audience such as Linux users who always like fuel for anti-FOSS arguments.

However just because someone appears to align ideologically doesn't mean one gives them a pass for anything they say.

Want to see the effort involved in actually analyzing Windows telemetry? Check out the PDF on the German government's information bureau page. Spoiler: they were using W10 LTSC which has the ability to set it to the lowest level and from there were able to disable it further using custom scripts.

The author has provided no real analysis of any 'spying'. The only thing that comes close would be it connecting to scorecardresearch.com, which we again don't know if is because of third-party apps pre-installed, or a widget or the OS itself, since they're only providing a superficial appearance of analysis.

Meeho said:
So...just like geo tracking.
Click to expand...

When Steam determines what region a user is in and sets the games to download from the closest server neither of us would define that as tracking but determining location for content delivery. When a website determines based on IP a region and asks if the user wants to be directed to the region-specific store instead again one doesn't define that as tracking.

Tracking is usually defined in tech when a user's actions across virtual or physical environments are followed, to create a map of activity. Do I doubt Windows telemetry may be indeed using some a of location tracking when none of the telemetry options (including Location) are disabled? Nope. However the author is calling out a very specific domain and that domain's purpose is available publicly, yet without even looking anything up they decide to label it 'bad'.

Ironically earlier in the video they consider Akamai CDN domain queries as 'fine' when Akamai does the same thing, it determines location and serves content based on the nearest servers.

Meeho said:
Doesn't sound like anything extra was enabled post install so there wouldn't be anything to disclose.
Click to expand...

Widgets are a native W11 feature that from what I've seen are enabled by default.

Meeho said:
An OS would comply with data protection regulations by...not sending out data in the first place. This is not a positive.
Click to expand...

The video is only showing DNS queries. There's no evidence what if anything is actually occuring. The author made little attempt to understand the purpose of the domain before seriously bad-mouthing it, when ironically its known to help services be compliant with privacy regulations (which carry enormous fines when non-compliant). That reflects poorly on the author and their ability to critically analyze.

Wireshark has the ability to decrypt local outbound traffic over Wi-Fi for example but given how the author made this video it I'm not sure I'd expect them to delve deeper like that.

Meeho said:
You left out several other issues reported in the video
Click to expand...

The only other things I observed for the W11 analysis, beside the domains they deem benign, were a McAfee domain trust evaluator and scorecardresearch.com, while the Bing domains could easily be that web search is enabled in the start menu (which can include live tiles) and IIRC Bing is used as a domain to determine connection status of the internet interface (at least on W8.1).

The issue I have is they're throwing around their assumptions while not considering the other aspects Windows loads by default (which are even liked by a lot of users such as weather in the taskbar for example). Everything is instead painted as spying. It's disingenuous, even if there is actual telemetry known to be used by Windows. They don't distinguish any as such though since it's all surface level.
 
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ZodaEX said:
There's a simple solution for this. Use Windows 7 and simply don't install the couple of updates for it that add in telemetry. The handful of DX12 only games that aren't able to be run in 7 really aren't even very good in my opinion.
Click to expand...
But are there any drivers for a 4090 of Win 7? Also what about the core scheduler? Lol
 
xDiVolatilX said:
But are there any drivers for a 4090 of Win 7? Also what about the core scheduler? Lol
Click to expand...

The 3090 is still fast enough to run everything plus it's cheaper. And the core scheduler is a non-issue if you simply disable all of the e-cores. Games run better that way anyway.
 
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