Just ordered the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA

R0achTheWarHero said:
This panel is probably pushing 750 contrast on a good day.
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Probably? Don't you have a Spyder. Can't you measure it. Can't you try some different settings to maximize it. 750 is not that bad. That is about the same as an NEC 2490uxi.

The lack of polarizer kind of nulls the viewing point advantage significantly as well (probably also a big reason the subjective image quality is lower than normal IPS).
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"Normal IPS" doesn't have A-TW polarizer. Everything Except a couple of NECs lack the A-TW polarizer. The HP 2475 is about $600 and doesn't have the A-TW polarizer. I have owned PVA/TN/IPS (with and without polarizer). IPS without polarizer still has a better viewing angle than TN/PVA. The only thing better is IPS with the A -TW polarizer, which currently ships on 2 or 3 monitors on the market.

TN panels have poor vertical viewing angles and they glow off angle as well, here is my 2490 next to my TN panel.
planettiltsmallmb0.jpg
 
I think the discount party is over.... I tried calling Marcus... voicemail...... Other sales rep..... nope can't go lower then 299 AT ALL (didn't even try). Best I got was free shipping and a 20 dollar discount. Panel still woulda cost me 300 bucks with tax. Sadly...... too rich fer my blood. The one that offered me the 20 bucks off mentioned that it was a sale they were having and that ended on the 31st. Not sure if thats true or not. I even tried online chat with a sales rep..... they would only waive shipping.

Maybe someone can still catch one of the reps on a good day.... I tried for a good hour to haggle with these guys. I was willing to pay up to 250 but they wouldn't go that low no matter what.
 
The best calibration I found without using a spyder is:

11 brightness
Red - max
Green - 96
Blue - Max
Sharpness - 40

Gamma set to 45% in nvidia control panel (default is 50)

Video card is 260gtx

I just noticed the glow goes down a lot just from switching to 11 brightness instead of 12.

I actually like this better than the spyder profile, the spyder tends to screw up your grey scales or just change the grey scale from light greenish tint to light reddish or whatever.

Just ran nvidia display optimization after setting gamma to 45% and now the monitor looks 10x better than it's factory settings. With factory default settings everything is washed out and the gamma is too bright making it look like you're viewing a TN panel. The amount of laziness Dell put into this monitor is astounding. Would have taken them all of 1 hour or less to set the gamma properly in the firmware yet they didn't even do it.

My spyder2pro is unable to set the gamma properly on this for some reason. I don't think it is sensitive enough to adjust LCD's at low brightness.
 
GripS said:
I think the discount party is over.... I tried calling Marcus... voicemail...... Other sales rep..... nope can't go lower then 299 AT ALL (didn't even try). Best I got was free shipping and a 20 dollar discount. Panel still woulda cost me 300 bucks with tax. Sadly...... too rich fer my blood. The one that offered me the 20 bucks off mentioned that it was a sale they were having and that ended on the 31st. Not sure if thats true or not. I even tried online chat with a sales rep..... they would only waive shipping.

Maybe someone can still catch one of the reps on a good day.... I tried for a good hour to haggle with these guys. I was willing to pay up to 250 but they wouldn't go that low no matter what.
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I'm in the same boat as you :(. Even worse is they wouldn't even give me a discount. They suggested I go for a "better" screen. Apparently since it has HDMI, the monitor they offered me is "better" even though its a TN panel. Oh well, I tried. Hopefully next time we'll get in on this deal. :D
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
If a TN panel can get contrast ratio that high, you have to ask yourself, is this IPS panel and better viewing angles worth it for 1/2 the contrast ratio?
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You need to take into account one thing: colorimeter readings taken is the middle of the screen are applicable to the whole screen only on condition that viewing angles are stable.

What CR does this TN monitor have?
archuk1pw2.jpg
 
albovin said:
You need to take into account one thing: colorimeter readings taken is the middle of the screen are applicable to the whole screen only on condition that viewing angles are stable.

What CR does this TN monitor have?
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That panel looks pretty bad, the taskbar is turquoise. Not the greatest of examples.
 
Sooo..... weird thing with my shipment from Dell. I've been tracking it by UPS through the email I got from Marcus. It started in Miami on Feb 2, and as of Feb 4 at 9:33PM Eastern is in Hodgkins, IL.

However.......I got back from working out and found a FedEx Ground door tag on my door saying they have a package from Dell they need a signature for, and will try again tomorrow (Feb 5).

So Dell has apparently sent two packages, one by FedEx and the other by UPS. I've checked my Amex card, and only one charge of $214.05 has come through.

Weird......... :confused:
 
Ordered mine here in India, for a second PC I'm building up at home. Cost me 19,900 rupees, which is ~400$. Oh well, cheaper than Europe at least.
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
That panel looks pretty bad, the taskbar is turquoise. Not the greatest of examples.
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No, but the point is, that in general monitor use, contrast ratio can be misleading.

First off, IPS is known not to have the greatest black levels out there. Mostly the newer HP LP2475W is somewhat competitive with a 0.18 or 0.19 cdm/2 black level at 140 cdm/2 whites (based on what I've read in that thread's posts).

Secondly, if I use my screens as an example, I'd still take my NEC 2690 over my Dell 2709W in picture quality even though the Dell has better black levels on and off-angle. The NEC has less contrast/gamma shift off angle, and I'd consider the Dell the best S-PVA monitor I've ever seen in that regard. It still isn't perfect, nor as good as the NEC.

Granted, the NEC does have the A-TW polarizer, but it is also a $1000.00+ monitor, so we can't expect that a $200 to $300.00 e-IPS screen to have such luxuries at this price bracket. And if you compare it to a TN, I would assume that this monitor can do ONE thing better than any TN out there, and that's support photo editing (after calibration), which I wouldn't necessarily recommend any TNs for regardless of how low the DE94 stats are.

BTW, you mentioned that Steal's post reeked of fanboyism, but I'd have to disagree. I think he's looking for what I was curious about (as well) and that is the category in your post (mini-review) that is "the good". All I saw was "The Bad".

What do you like about this monitor? Is the lack of A-TW polarizer a problem in non-dark images as well, or just in the display of on or off-angle blacks?

What was the DE94 when you calibrated with Spyder 2 Pro? What black levels at a chosen brightness were indicated?

These are the questions I am strongly curious about.
 
night_2004 said:
Shoot, just got off the chat lines with Dell. They won't offer more than 5% off now. Earlier today they offered me 10% off, but they won't do it now even though I have a chat transcript showing it.

Online sales chat isn't going to do anything. I'll have to call in and give it a shot.
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FYI. Marcus is in training till Feb 6.
 
So is e-IPS better than PVA? I'm still stuck deciding if I get a PVA monitor or go for this e-ips.
 
quink said:
So is e-IPS better than PVA? I'm still stuck deciding if I get a PVA monitor or go for this e-ips.
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In some ways, I almost think the bigger question that really hasn't been mentioned much yet is 'can you live with a 22" 1680 x 1050 resolution monitor, even if it is an IPS? When I was shopping a month ago, I was seriously considering the LG L227WTG-PF. But in the end decided 22" was just too small. Even if I hadn't bought my V2400W, I'm still not sure I could pull the trigger on this.
 
Well, Fedex decided I wasn't home and didn't deliver the package. Bastards are going to come around again tomorrow, maybe they'll pick the right house because I KNOW they didnt come here. I took today off so I could play with this monitor so its a bummer.

Wish UPS had delivered mine.
 
Malatesta said:
Well, Fedex decided I wasn't home and didn't deliver the package. Bastards are going to come around again tomorrow, maybe they'll pick the right house because I KNOW they didnt come here. I took today off so I could play with this monitor so its a bummer.

Wish UPS had delivered mine.
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I don't know which one is delivering mine.
 
Hmmm, having a difficult time with this. I can't decide if I want the 2007FP (1600x1200 S-IPS, I will return any S-PVA sent my way) or the 2209WA (1680x1050 e-IPS) for dual screen monitors. Bah...
 
brencat said:
In some ways, I almost think the bigger question that really hasn't been mentioned much yet is 'can you live with a 22" 1680 x 1050 resolution monitor, even if it is an IPS?
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Before the last couple of years, everyone had less that 22" worth of monitor.

Malatesta said:
Well, Fedex decided I wasn't home and didn't deliver the package. Bastards are going to come around again tomorrow, maybe they'll pick the right house because I KNOW they didnt come here. I took today off so I could play with this monitor so its a bummer.

Wish UPS had delivered mine.
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I stayed home by the door so they didn't pull that on me. On Tuesday I got a delivery exception, on Wednesday I was sitting in the living room with the curtains open watching for the guy :D
 
I received 2 of mine yesterday. Can't beat two 22" e-IPS monitors for $450 shipped! These look comparable to my dell 2405 and blows away any TN monitor.
 
For anyone trying to get this panel to look right:

These panels look like crap till you run nvidia display optimization wizard

The background for this site is supposed to be dark navy blue:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/

Without running nvidia display optimization wizard, that background is washed out light blue as well as most other colors.
 
I don't have a calibration kit yet. So I followed some the ones in here, looks pretty good

11-12 brightness seems good
Contrast wasn't mentioned so I set it at 75, is that OK?
RGB values are 100 R 96 G 100 B. Although I noticed you can notch it up or down a few times without changing the value but the color will change, kinda like a fine tune within each value. For instance, I pressed the button two times and the value stayed 100, but I could see a slight color shift. I left it on the most neutral "click"

I'm using an ATI 4850, so I set the gamma value in the catalyst control to 90. Any thoughts on this?

I have some backlight bleeding on this monitor as well. A small one on the upper right and a more noticeable bleed on the bottom left. The bottom left bleed makes the screen a little lighter in that corner when viewing on webpages, like this one. I wonder if I should return it for a new one or just leave well enough alone since there seems to be no other problems, what do you guys think?
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
For anyone trying to get this panel to look right:

These panels look like crap till you run nvidia display optimization wizard

The background for this site is supposed to be dark navy blue:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/

Without running nvidia display optimization wizard, that background is washed out light blue as well as most other colors.
Click to expand...

Wow.........really? Even when I have an ATi card?


Well........since you typed in caps, it HAS to be right.......







:p
 
Kaskimondo said:
I don't have a calibration kit yet. So I followed some the ones in here, looks pretty good

11-12 brightness seems good
Contrast wasn't mentioned so I set it at 75, is that OK?
RGB values are 100 R 96 G 100 B. Although I noticed you can notch it up or down a few times without changing the value but the color will change, kinda like a fine tune within each value. For instance, I pressed the button two times and the value stayed 100, but I could see a slight color shift. I left it on the most neutral "click"


I have some backlight bleeding on this monitor as well. A small one on the upper right and a more noticeable bleed on the bottom left. The bottom left bleed makes the screen a little lighter in that corner when viewing on webpages, like this one. I wonder if I should return it for a new one or just leave well enough alone since there seems to be no other problems, what do you guys think?
Click to expand...

My current settings are:

11brightness (146cdm2)
Red: as high as it will go
Green: 96 (if you click down once it will turn to 95)
Blue: 99 (if you click down once it will turn to 98)

The strange part about this monitor is, the black level and most shades of grey are set all screwed up. After running the nvidia optimization wizard correctly, your black level actually becomes much better and that bleed you see on the bottom left corner mostly disappears and you also gain a lot of contrast ratio. My spyder2pro is completely uncapable of fixing this monitor, it just makes it worse but the nvidia calibration wizard works. I'm not sure if an Eye-One calibrator can fix it but it's gotta be better than spyder2.

Does having DDC/CI enabled on the monitor make the Spyder2 not work right or does that setting not matter? I can't figure out why it can't profile this monitor worth a damn
 
I don't think DDC/CI has anything to do with calibration, unless you are talking about an NEC or Eizo screen with built in LUT adjustment capability (internal to the screen). Spyder2 Pro is OK, but from what I've seen the Eye One D2 is better. I have both colorimeters.

When my monitor arrives I'll let you know what I did for calibration and post up a profile. See if you like it better. I'll include whatever adjustments in the file name (as I always do) as well as in this thread.

I'll post up one for SP2 and one for Eye One D2... I have both Eye One D2 and Spyder 2 (from the Express package) but I also have Lacie Blue Eye Pro and BasicColor 4.1.9 which have both shown to give excellent results with Eye One D2. NOt sure about with the SP2 colorimeter because mine has been collecting dust. I'd actually say BasicColor is even better than Lacie, which is excellent. Considering that I use FireFox 3.0.6 with the color management capability installed, I can give a good account in comparing the Dell to the NEC in regards to calibration even though the NEC is wide gamut..

Never use the nVidia optimization wizard with calibration. Use one or the other. Doing both will cause you headaches from frustration and eye strain.

R0achTheWarHero said:
My current settings are:

11brightness (146cdm2)
Red: as high as it will go
Green: 96 (if you click down once it will turn to 95)
Blue: 99 (if you click down once it will turn to 98)

The strange part about this monitor is, the black level and most shades of grey are set all screwed up. After running the nvidia optimization wizard correctly, your black level actually becomes much better and that bleed you see on the bottom left corner mostly disappears and you also gain a lot of contrast ratio. My spyder2pro is completely uncapable of fixing this monitor, it just makes it worse but the nvidia calibration wizard works. I'm not sure if an Eye-One calibrator can fix it but it's gotta be better than spyder2.

Does having DDC/CI enabled on the monitor make the Spyder2 not work right or does that setting not matter? I can't figure out why it can't profile this monitor worth a damn
Click to expand...
 
10e said:
When my monitor arrives I'll let you know what I did for calibration and post up a profile. See if you like it better. I'll include whatever adjustments in the file name (as I always do) as well as in this thread.
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Thanks! and greatly appreciated!:D
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
My current settings are:

11brightness (146cdm2)
Red: as high as it will go
Green: 96 (if you click down once it will turn to 95)
Blue: 99 (if you click down once it will turn to 98)

The strange part about this monitor is, the black level and most shades of grey are set all screwed up. After running the nvidia optimization wizard correctly, your black level actually becomes much better and that bleed you see on the bottom left corner mostly disappears and you also gain a lot of contrast ratio. My spyder2pro is completely uncapable of fixing this monitor, it just makes it worse but the nvidia calibration wizard works. I'm not sure if an Eye-One calibrator can fix it but it's gotta be better than spyder2.

Does having DDC/CI enabled on the monitor make the Spyder2 not work right or does that setting not matter? I can't figure out why it can't profile this monitor worth a damn
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I wish I knew the answer....I'm using ATI and I don't know if i even have a calibration wizard, just got this computer a few weeks ago and I'm a newbie when it comes to graphics cards and settings. Was using an old desktop for years, never needed to tweak stuff.

EDIT: Did you put the monitor back to the default brightness and contrast settings before calibrating with the Spyder 2? That's what I read about Spyder 2, it may cause it to be off when calibrating if you have these set wrong. good luck.

Anybody have any suggestions for ATI catalyst settings? Thanks!
 
It could be that's what the blog post about the e-IPS panels meant by 'detuned'. It could be that e-IPS panels don't receive ANY factory calibration when they're shipped out. Making manual calibration by the consumer absolutely necessary.

I've no idea if that's even possible or how much money it saves, its just a guess based on thread comments.
 
Another thing it may be Roach, make sure the profile is new. I read some versions of Spyder 2 may only work with one monitor profile at a time, you have to rename the profile and start new before calibrating on a new monitor.

So... does anybody think I should send it back for the backlight bleed? Will that just be a headache?
 
For those of us that want a higher dot pitch than 20"/24" monitors provide, have limited cash, don't care for perfect colour accuracy yet demand IPS, this monitor appears to be the perfect choice.

How does it compare (viewing angle is a given) to the latest TN screens?
 
R0achTheWarHero said:
For anyone trying to get this panel to look right:

These panels look like crap till you run nvidia display optimization wizard

The background for this site is supposed to be dark navy blue:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/

Without running nvidia display optimization wizard, that background is washed out light blue as well as most other colors.
Click to expand...

weird

looks dark navy blue to me, not light blue at all
 
King of Heroes said:
It could be that's what the blog post about the e-IPS panels meant by 'detuned'. It could be that e-IPS panels don't receive ANY factory calibration when they're shipped out. Making manual calibration by the consumer absolutely necessary.

I've no idea if that's even possible or how much money it saves, its just a guess based on thread comments.
Click to expand...

Almost no LCD is factory calibrated except high end ones like the NEC 90uxi models. It simply adds too much cost to individually calibrate a monitor. Even if is automated.

So far the only thing I see that might save some money versus other new IPS designs is the use of basic standard gamut backlights (approximately). Stretching the spectrum of the backlight probably increases the cost. But for the most part this does't seem like a horrible thing. Most people seem very happy so far except Roach, but then again, I don't think he has ever been happy. :D
 
Any thoughts on sending back for backlight bleed? ATI catalyst settings?

How about what to set the contrast to? 75?

I guess I should just get a calibrator and STFU, since no one here seems to reply....LOL
 
brencat said:
In some ways, I almost think the bigger question that really hasn't been mentioned much yet is 'can you live with a 22" 1680 x 1050 resolution monitor, even if it is an IPS? When I was shopping a month ago, I was seriously considering the LG L227WTG-PF. But in the end decided 22" was just too small. Even if I hadn't bought my V2400W, I'm still not sure I could pull the trigger on this.
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I wouldn't be looking at a 22" monitor if I wasn't okay with the resolution. So my question *is* more relevant. Just trying to decide which would give the best colors, pva or eips.
 
XMonkey-v2.0 said:
This is such a bad comparison photo that you shouldn't even bother posting it.
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That is such a useless comment that you shouldn't even bother posting it. :p

But I will also do what you should of done. If you are going to criticize make it constructive. Your comment was just an empty complaint.

I was pointing out that TN screens glow off angle as well. Not just IPS without A-TW. That was a photo of my TN glowing. Seems like a perfect example photo to illustrate the point.
 
Snowdog said:
That is such a useless comment that you shouldn't even bother posting it. :p

But I will also do what you should of done. If you are going to criticize make it constructive. Your comment was just an empty complaint.

I was pointing out that TN screens glow off angle as well. Not just IPS without A-TW. That was a photo of my TN glowing. Seems like a perfect example photo to illustrate the point.
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Fine. The problem is the screens aren't at the same angle. I don't doubt the superiority of the A-TW or whatever, but at least compare the different monitors with the same measuring stick.
 
Snowdog said:
That is such a useless comment that you shouldn't even bother posting it. :p

But I will also do what you should of done. If you are going to criticize make it constructive. Your comment was just an empty complaint.

I was pointing out that TN screens glow off angle as well. Not just IPS without A-TW. That was a photo of my TN glowing. Seems like a perfect example photo to illustrate the point.
Click to expand...
The angle of camera relative to each monitor is different in that photo.
 
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