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Discussion in 'Displays' started by variant, Jan 22, 2009.
I just ordered one from Destine for $212 shipped, total was $246, eta is May 19th
I grabbed one of the refurbs. At under $200, I couldn't resist.
I can't find any dead or stuck pixels, which is surprising to me since this is a refurb, and I always get the ones with defects.
The stand is surprisingly good. Adjustments are smooth and fluid, not wobbly or creaky like many other stands. This is actually one of the best stands I've seen.
Backlight bleeding is minimal. There are some spots along the top edge like others have observed, but the rest of the screen is uniform. Usually when I encounter backlight bleeding with IPS panels, it's all over the screen, killing the contrast.
The contrast seems decent for an IPS panel without the A-TW polarizer. The glow is there, but it doesn't bother me as much as it did on the Planar and DoubleSight monitors.
I can confirm that it supports 75 Hz properly at the native resolution without skipping frames. This is the only IPS monitor I know that can do this. I can actually get it up to 76 Hz, but that requires custom timings. There seems to be a check in place that prevents it from going higher, which is disappointing since single-link DVI has enough bandwidth to do 85 Hz if the monitor would only allow it.
There's no significant lag as far as I can tell, which means it has to be less than 10 ms. I will do a test later.
The overdrive is very well done. Artifacts are minimal and almost non-existent at 75 Hz. It's obvious to me now that the Planar and DoubleSight monitors don't have overdrive.
IPS panel + no lag + good overdrive + 75 Hz = great responsiveness
This is the best performing non-TN monitor I've seen so far. TN panels have slightly better gray-to-gray response times, and a 120 Hz TN panel would be smoother, but then you're stuck with a TN panel. This monitor is a nice compromise between responsiveness and image quality.
The only problem I can find is the right side of the screen is slightly redder, like some others have mentioned, but it's nothing major. I can only see it on a solid white background, and even then, the difference is small. If you're using Photoshop, the palettes are in that part of the screen anyway. S-PVA gamma shifting is far worse in my opinion.
I'm pleasantly surprised by this monitor. This is among the better monitors I've tried, and it's definitely the best bang for the buck by far. I can't believe this thing is under $200.
You were robbed! Everyone is getting them for $212 shipped plus tax ($224 total or something close to that). Or did you pay that for two of them shipped?
My guess is that it will ship today. I ordered my second on the 22nd and it shipped early this morning.
When I set my to 75hz it the OS reports it as 75hz but on the OSD of the LCD it says only 60hz, so which is it? Is the OS reporting it wrong or the LCD?
With NVIDIA cards, you have to add a custom resolution using the advanced timing option, and use the CVT reduced blanking timing standard, otherwise the driver lies to the OS. The LCD is reporting the correct rate.
Edit: I got it for $192/monitor shipped OTD (Includes free over night)
Aw ok. I have a Ati 4890 and their's no way to make a custom resolution with their drivers. So looks like Ati users only get 60 hz :-(
Still not the greatest. I paid $448 shipped for two new monitors. So about $32 more for a new monitor with 3 year warranty vs refurb with 90 day.
Warranty is what's important to me. That's great that you were able to get the 3 year on the refurb monitors. When I added the refurbs to my cart It said 90 days. I also called Dell and spoke to two different people who also said 90 days. If I could have gotten 3 years I would have gone with the refurbs.
it's like the lottery, you just have to speak to the right one, and say the right things.
Just spoke with DELL they did get some 2209WA in. But not alot and their back to a 3-5 week lead time :-(
That's seems to be the case at Dell. It's pretty annoying sometimes. Good job hunting that down.
Maybe I should be placing my order for a 3rd monitor
Ordered from Destinee.
$226 shipped to Vegas. back ordered 10-15 days though.
Thanks to the poster who put up her number.
*the next batch of monitors better not be TN panels!
If the 2209WA was looking a bit on the yellow side what would I need to adjust that?
FWIW, Destinee said that the $212 price is good until May 1st. Which is a good thing, since my refund from Dell still hasn't been credited yet, and I may not get a chance to use this $212 quote I have before it expires.
Hey guys, had the monitor for 2 months and so far it still rocks! Just wondering if anyone has a calibration profile for Windows 7 (I'm not sure if they use the same .icc profiles or not)
When I try this my monitor gives me an error on a black screen that says my timings are not supported by the monitor. Looks like the 75Hz no workie for me.
I need to call in a replacement, however I've never done it before so would like to ask some questions.
Will they ask what is wrong with my item, do I tell them about the stuck pixel or do I just say that I'm not happy with it?
Also, if the replacement that is sent to me is worse than the one I currently own, am I allowed to keep my current one and send the replacement back, or do I HAVE to take it and send my current one in?
Thanks in advance.
It should work. I don't know why it wouldn't. Maybe the timings it chose for you aren't compatible.
Try these manual timings:
Horizontal front porch: 48
Active horizontal pixels: 1680
Horizontal total: 1840
Horizontal sync width: 32
Horizontal sync polarity: -
Vertical front porch: 3
Active vertical lines: 1050
Vertical total: 1087
Vertical sync width: 6
Vertical sync polarity: +
Then set the desired refresh rate to 75 Hz.
It will actually accept up to 76.647 Hz using those timings. Going any higher causes it to intermittently reject the resolution, so don't go above that. The monitor will report 77 Hz since it rounds up.
Yes they will ask you what is wrong with it. For pixels, you would be better off lying to them that it is a bright pixel which is visible all the time even when screen is displaying black. Otherwise they would try not to replace you one ( at least that was what happened to me..). Ultra Sharp lines have 1 or more bright pixel policy.
My replacements were pretty smooth until recently. because I had already replace both of my dual monitor setup twice and they have became quite annoyed about not being able to fix my issue (color tint ) and is somewhat unwilling to replace further.. They even tried to convince me the monitor is not compatible with the video card I own.. (WTF..8800GTS!!) I managed to get another replacement for both again.. if they are not better... i will just have to suck it up.
Great post, thanks for the manual timings! 75Hz working a treat now!
What program are you using to get the 75hz? In the Ati CCC their is no way to change things like that. And in the windows control panel their isn't eiither...
To an uneducated display guy, what's the benefit to 75 Hz (or 77Hz)? I'm guessing it has something to do with "fluidity", giving the recent splash "120Hz" HD TVs have made.
yeah, i've been looking into this as well and I haven't found anything to allow ATI card users to bring up the refresh to 75hz and have the display in 1680 X 1050...any one help?
Just spent the last few hours comparing the Dell 2209WA and the LG L227WTG-PF next to each other. A friend and I were checking them out side by side. Well first, yes the Dell blows away the LG in view angles no doubt their. And the stand and the quality of the Lcd itself are better than the LG. But, when looking at the internet and text in general, the LG with its glossy screen looks much better, its sharper and easier to read. Also when viewing website the Dell has like a textured background to it when view websites. The LG is smooth as silk. Then we looked at pictures, and no matter how we setup the Dell the LG just looked much more vibrant and alive where the Dell looked dull and faded. In games they looked the same. Blacks looked darker on the LG as well. To me the only thing the dell beat the LG in was view angles and the stand. And I don't stand up when using the computer or sit to the left or right of it, I sit in front of it so to me view angles don't mean anything. I thought IPS panels were supposed to be much better color wise than a TN? No matter what picture we looked at the LG tn panel looked better, much more vibrant and alive. Is that the effect of the glossy screen? Because if it is I much much prefer a glossy screen to a matte one because they seem to make everything dull and faded. Ok now it time to get yelled at about how much better an IPS panel is to a TN I'm sorry I just don't see that, if fact I see pretty much the opposite....
I know these photos aren't the best but here is 2 pictures one from the LG and one from the Dell
Dell is on top and LG on bottom...
The Dell has a slight "graininess" to it that is the anti-glare. It almost looks like a film of dirt on the screen that you can't take off. Most LG IPS panels of the past four or five years have it. The only ones that don't are the special A-TW polarized panels from LG that are used in the NEC LCD2x90WUXI monitor.
Concerning colors, the LG L227WTG is a "wide gamut" screen. This will make colors "pop" more, like turning up the "color" control on a TV. Reds and greens especially are more saturated and look deeper. In this regard, the color of the 2209WA is generally more accurate. For the L227 to show proper colors in Windows, it needs a proper ICM profile (for color management) and a color-managed application like Photoshop or FireFox 3 with the color management plug-in enabled. The stronger color of the LG is less accurate. Even though it is visually more attractive, it is "not right".
In regards to blacks, the Dell suffers a bit from the "white shimmery glow" that effects all non A-TW polarized H-IPS and eIPS panels. When you view dark colors off-angle, there is a white almost mirrored look to it. The viewing angle difference shows up even if you are sitting with your eyes at the middle of the screen vertically. The LG will show the top darker than the bottom, whereas the Dell won't. I can even see it in the photo you posted, where the grey background tends to darken going up the photo on the LG, but not on the Dell. I tend to see people say "who cares about viewing angles, I'm sitting in front of the screen", but TN viewing angles are limited in that colors will change even up and down the screen even when sitting in front of it. View a long post here on the LG, and you'll notice the dark grey getting darker as you look at the screen from the bottom going up, and you won't notice this on the Dell.
So anyway, it's "ok" if you like the LG's picture better, but that should explain some of the major differences.
Is that the effect of the glossy screen?
Yes it is. The glossy coating really adds vibrancy and makes colors pop out.
I currently have the L227WTG, and while I love it, the main reason I'm replacing it with a Dell 2209WA is that I'm tired of the top of the screen being darker then the bottom. Besides that limitation with the TN panel on the LG, it's really a great display. Gaming dosn't apply as I use my PS3 for that.
Good post 10e thanks. But even text looks sharper and easier to read. As I was reading your post, I found it much easier to read and see on the LG than the Dell. Everything just seems so dull and flat on the Dell, and the LG is alive and vibrant. I can understand how someone would choose the view angles on the dell over the LG, but I mean when looking at colors and pictures the LG like you said just pops out, where the dell is just plain dull. When I look at a photo I want to see it and say wow! With the Dell its like aw ok nice photo, but it looks faded and dull. Believe me I want to keep the Dell I keep telling myself this is a IPS panel and its alot better than a TN panel. But everytime I compare the two the LG catches my eye more. If the Dell was a glossy screen I would love it in a second. I wish dell would release a glossy 22 or 24 inch ips panel. People always want to see better pictures and colors, and with a matte screen you don't get it as good as a glossy. And you say the stronger color is not right on the LG, how so? It looks perfect to me. I'm using windows 7 and the wallpapers in their are pretty cool, on the LG they look awesome, on the dell very bland. It could be that I don't know how to calibrate. The Dell is at factory defaults and so is the LG. I'm still trying to decide which one to keep..
Funny discussion -> do you want a monitor which is out of the box ok for color critical work (ok -> far away from perfect!!!) or do you want colors which are not real. The picture doesn't have those colours, your monitor is giving you the illusion.
So, the Dell is surely better if you want a real display not a advertisement display (to compare it ...).
The colors on the LG are "fake", they're over contrasted so to speak. The color on the dell is more accurate, and is more true to how the images you are viewing is supposed to be.
I can understand how you may think it looks better, however I would rather have it look more true to what it actually is, specially if you're doing any type of image editing.
Well if it is fake it does a very very good job at faking it. I mean if you went to the store to buy an LCD and you didn't know the difference in panels. I bet 9 out 10 people would look at the LG and go wow awesome colors and then look at the Dell and go hum that is a really dull and faded looking monitor with dull and faded colors. So from a marketing stand point, I can see where the LG would sell a lot more then the dell..
Well I'm just about to return my 2209WA and get an LG 227WTP because I have a problem with "IPS glow" which is so disturbing...
The things you're talking about have nothing to do with TN vs. IPS. It's more wide gamut vs. standard gamut and glossy vs. matte.
The LG is more vibrant because of the wider color gamut. The problem is most images and videos are not designed for the wider color gamut, so the LG is basically oversaturating the colors and making them less accurate. Only color-managed applications can handle the wider gamut correctly, and only if you have a proper color profile. If you were to profile the LG and open the images in a color-managed application like Photoshop, you'd see that the colors are dull and faded in there too.
Another factor is gamma. It might just be the gamma that's bothering you. The native gamma on the Dell is closer to 2.0. If the gamma on the LG is more like 2.4, then the Dell will seem washed out in comparison. Try setting the gamma correction to 0.9 in your video card color settings. That should make the Dell closer to 2.2, although then the darker colors will be too dark. Only calibration can fix the gamma properly.
Also, you say the viewing angles don't mean anything, but the picture of the LG clearly shows the top is darker and the bottom is lighter even though the picture was taken in front of the screen. That's due to the viewing angles. The colors on the Dell are more consistent.
A glossy screen doesn't really affect colors as much as people say it does, although it can make black appear deeper in a lit room. The gamut, gamma, and viewing angles have a bigger impact on the colors.
Whatever the case, go with what looks better to you. If the gamma adjustment doesn't help, then you won't be happy with the Dell. Don't try to convince yourself to keep something you're not happy with.
Okay so what number do I need to call for a replacement, I just called the 3355 number and they transferred me somewhere else, the lady kept calling my monitor a computer and then she said they were only open Monday-Sunday and I'd have to call back at another time, wtf?
Do I call for technical support or what, also it asks for personal, business or home, since I purchased through small business should I say business? I just don't want them to ask for the business because I got nothin'.
Sorry if these seem like stupid questions but I've never had replace anything, I've been fairly lucky with hardware.
One of the problems you will run into is if you are doing any kind of image editing and then print these images out, the colors probably wont match. They will look much more vibrant on your computer than the printer because your monitor is pushing the contrast and saturation.
You'll notice when you go into Best Buy almost all the TVs are set to some kind of "Vivid" picture mode. This boosts the color and WOW factor of the TVs in the store's bright environment so that people stop and look at how bright deep and saturated the colors are. But this is essentially an effect being placed upon the image. Thats not what the movie actually looks like. Take it home and leave it in vivid mode and it will look terrible.
So these dull Dell images are actually a good thing because thats what they really look like. It means you are looking at a dull image. You can have bright over saturated images on the Dell too; but it wont crank up the contrast on every single picture to make it look like that. Accurate color is an important feature to me. While the Dell isn't perfect, it does a hell of a job for the price range.