![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Just Ordered My Westinghouse L2410NM!!
- Thread starter grifter_66
- Start date
just got mine, and wow... its freaking huge and the colors are AMAZING
but the blacks.... i thought it wouldnt be a big deal, but man... they really are bad... pretty much anything near black is all the same color- any guy with a black shirt in a game just turns one shade of black
but other than that its still pretty awesome- and i havent spent much time fiddling with the options to minimize the crushed black
il get some pics up soon
but the blacks.... i thought it wouldnt be a big deal, but man... they really are bad... pretty much anything near black is all the same color- any guy with a black shirt in a game just turns one shade of black
but other than that its still pretty awesome- and i havent spent much time fiddling with the options to minimize the crushed black
il get some pics up soon
Yep. My upper- and lower-range contrast seems fine. I don't have a
(color) oversaturated top end, as far as I can tell, although if you've got a test chart, I'd be happy to compare. My OSD shows version 1.0. Yours?
Also, I'm curious as to what options the flower-menu (initial for me) gives others. I get only [brightness/contrast/sharpness], yet my manual lists, additionally, [Color, Hue, DLC (dynamic luminescence control), and backlight.] Note: I'm using DVI->HDMI, which shouldn't mess it up, but who knows.
This monitor seems good enough for me (at least, once I've verified the lack of input lag), but if I'm getting screwed, I'd really rather return/exchange it. Good enough, yes. As good as it could be? I don't know.
This 700:1 thing seems a bit...suspect, as does the 5ms. I'm also noticing color and brightness shifts at the edges, and it changes when I move my head even an inch or two (washes out...bad viewing angles).
Stats from my manual: 700:1 Contrast, 170H/160V viewing angles, 5ms response time. - And no mention of panel type.
Stats from bestbuy --: 1000:1 Contrast, 176H/176V viewing angles, 8ms response time. "16.7 million colors on an MVA panel"
Westinghouse.com -: 1000:1 Contrast, 176H/176V viewing angles, 8ms response time"16.7 million colors on an MVA panel" - so Bestbuy's information is almost certainly direct from Westinghouse.
Sure feels wrong.
Do MVA panels ever have 5ms response times? Because...5ms is the standard, non-overdriven TN rate, isn't it?
One last thing: Anyone else notice mouse blur? I am just coming from a CRT (first LCD), so that might be it, but....when I move the mouse against a dark background, it blurs. Maybe I'm just spoiled by CRTs....
[RCKY] Thor
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2001
- Messages
- 2,133
Play with the brightness/contrast and if you have to gamma/brightness/contrast in the driver and you can fix that. See the posts above with links to calibration pages.
[RCKY] Thor
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2001
- Messages
- 2,133
a13x
Yep. My upper- and lower-range contrast seems fine. I don't have a
My OSD shows version 1.0. Yours?
Also, I'm curious as to what options the flower-menu (initial for me) gives others. I get only [brightness/contrast/sharpness], yet my manual lists, additionally, [Color, Hue, DLC (dynamic luminescence control), and backlight.] Note: I'm using DVI->HDMI, which shouldn't mess it up, but who knows
AFAIK, those extra settings you don't see are used only for analog inputs. If you use component or D sub, those options. should show up. I don't think you need them for digtal input though.
Any my OSD was 1.1, not 1.0.......... Who knows if that means much though
I would have thought that backlight control and DLC at the very least would still be used...
Edit: Just called bestbuy, and apparently there's a 1000:1 box there. I guess I'll try an exchange, since my box says 700:1.
ahhh after fiddling around with the nvidia settings i cleaned it up a bit- now it pretty much looks amazing
dont know about the 360 though
And yeah my box says 700:1! WTF i hope thats a typo...
heres a quick pic lol that rhymes
*edit*
heres a pic of UT3- as you can see it looks godlike
dont know about the 360 though
And yeah my box says 700:1! WTF i hope thats a typo...
heres a quick pic lol that rhymes
*edit*
heres a pic of UT3- as you can see it looks godlike
Upon further research:
MVA panels should show yellowish tinting and fade-out at angles, while TN panels should invert from below. My monitor shows the fade-out and yellowing when viewed at angles, with the black deepest when viewed at a perpendicular angle.
Therefore, it seems rather more likely that there has been an MVA->MVA panel switch than an MVA->TN switch. It is, of course, entirely possible that the (1000:1 8ms) contrast ratio was just nonsense, and there was only one version of this monitor all along (700:1 5ms)
iono. Anybody else have any ideas?
MVA panels should show yellowish tinting and fade-out at angles, while TN panels should invert from below. My monitor shows the fade-out and yellowing when viewed at angles, with the black deepest when viewed at a perpendicular angle.
Therefore, it seems rather more likely that there has been an MVA->MVA panel switch than an MVA->TN switch. It is, of course, entirely possible that the (1000:1 8ms) contrast ratio was just nonsense, and there was only one version of this monitor all along (700:1 5ms)
iono. Anybody else have any ideas?
Hey, I just got this monitor yesterday and I love it. The only issue I'm having is when I either push the preset display mode button that cycles between "picture, text, and economy" or turn the back light down from anything lower than 100 (aka the brightest it goes) a whine/buzz noise starts to emit from the back box where the innards are. It does it on all inputs even without anything plugged in. Is this normal and happening with all your guys panels too? I don't want to have to run it at full brightness at night because of the annoying noise I get when I darken the screen I called westinghouse customer support and they said it shouldn't be making noise when the backlight is lowered, but what do you guys think?
I called westinghouse customer support and they said it shouldn't be making noise when the backlight is lowered, but what do you guys think?Mine also made that exact noise. I didn't think it was that loud. Is it in your bedroom and you're trying to sleep? Turn your PC off at night
Really, a circuit probably shouldn't be making that noise. I suggest if you can't stand the noise, you'll have to get a different monitor. I doubt another Westinghouse would fix your problem.
Really, a circuit probably shouldn't be making that noise. I suggest if you can't stand the noise, you'll have to get a different monitor. I doubt another Westinghouse would fix your problem.
oh god, lol I didn't pay any attention to it, the boxes I saw at BB said 1000:1, I told them I wanted it and took it up to the front, then went to buy a cable and looked back they were messing with my box... lol I dunno if they swapped it out or not, but I'm pretty pissed... Called westinghouse and they asked me to call BB and see if they can do something, if BB won't accept the swap, then westinghouse said they would fill out a complaint form and send it to BB, and give me the (manufacture return authorization number).
So I call BB and they say that they won't do anything for me because I have had the monitor for longer than 14 days and that I need to call WH and get the MRAN or else they won't even think about doing anything unless my monitor is messed up.
EDIT:Talked to a supervisor at WH, he apparently owns the same monitor as all of us, so I told him the situation. He said to me "I'm sorry for the confusion but I promise you, what we say on our website is what you own. There is no difference at all except for the manual and the box, most of which are correct. The reason for the confusion and use of misinforming boxes and manuals is solely because we already had these boxes and manuals in production when the monitor was changed, and shipped out to stores in the U.S. There is 0 difference between the specifications of your monitor and the specs on our site. Westinghouse was just saving money instead of reprinting everything for the large chunk of boxes and manuals that are off."
I can somewhat believe this as when I got the monitor I read through the manual looking at ways to setup the monitor and noticed it was different. Everyone I talked to at WH (none were supervisors) were confused and 'filled out reports' to be looked into. Who knows maybe they finally did it.
So I call BB and they say that they won't do anything for me because I have had the monitor for longer than 14 days and that I need to call WH and get the MRAN or else they won't even think about doing anything unless my monitor is messed up.
EDIT:Talked to a supervisor at WH, he apparently owns the same monitor as all of us, so I told him the situation. He said to me "I'm sorry for the confusion but I promise you, what we say on our website is what you own. There is no difference at all except for the manual and the box, most of which are correct. The reason for the confusion and use of misinforming boxes and manuals is solely because we already had these boxes and manuals in production when the monitor was changed, and shipped out to stores in the U.S. There is 0 difference between the specifications of your monitor and the specs on our site. Westinghouse was just saving money instead of reprinting everything for the large chunk of boxes and manuals that are off."
I can somewhat believe this as when I got the monitor I read through the manual looking at ways to setup the monitor and noticed it was different. Everyone I talked to at WH (none were supervisors) were confused and 'filled out reports' to be looked into. Who knows maybe they finally did it.
wow thats great news! i ^
It looks amazing anyways so i dont really care what the contrast ratio is
My moms being a bitch and if she catches takin pics of my new monitor instead of doing homework shel probably take a sledge hammer to it
but il put a buttload of pics up eventually
If there are any angles/games you want to see on this monitor just request them
*edit*
as for the person talking about the loud noise coming from the monitor; just keep the brightness at 100... its looks best at max anyway and dosent bother my eyes at all
It looks amazing anyways so i dont really care what the contrast ratio is
My moms being a bitch and if she catches takin pics of my new monitor instead of doing homework shel probably take a sledge hammer to it
but il put a buttload of pics up eventually
If there are any angles/games you want to see on this monitor just request them
*edit*
as for the person talking about the loud noise coming from the monitor; just keep the brightness at 100... its looks best at max anyway and dosent bother my eyes at all
Input lag results relative to CRT:
37 ms so just over 2 frames. (Note - quick test, only ~20 samples, camera at 1/500 due to CRT light-levels. Someone else should also do it.)
No wonder I noticed it.
Edit: By now I'm pretty sure it's not a TN, unless they've somehow gotten rid of the inversion/black fade when viewed from below. It fades just like an MVA, so now the question is simply why is this MVA panel 160/170 viewing angles/5ms/700:1 instead of 176 viewing angles/8ms/1000:1.
37 ms so just over 2 frames. (Note - quick test, only ~20 samples, camera at 1/500 due to CRT light-levels. Someone else should also do it.)
No wonder I noticed it.
Edit: By now I'm pretty sure it's not a TN, unless they've somehow gotten rid of the inversion/black fade when viewed from below. It fades just like an MVA, so now the question is simply why is this MVA panel 160/170 viewing angles/5ms/700:1 instead of 176 viewing angles/8ms/1000:1.
catchascatchcan
n00b
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 10
That's actually less input lag than the more expensive dell and samsung 24 inchers from what I remember, considering the price I think I'm willing to cope. Of course, I haven't tried one for myself yet, mine should come tomorrow and I'll post what I think when I've had some time with it.
Read my response of what supervisors from westinghouse have said.
According to westinghouse, all of the specifications on their website IS CORRECT. Your monitor does not differ. I'm not 100% sure if I believe this but there are plenty of sites out there that say the same thing. MVA panel 176 v/h view, 8ms, and 1k:1 CR. I don't know if you guys are wanting a TN or praising god that it's not a TN lol I'm not sure personally... I honestly can't till if this is S-IPS or MVA, they are both so similar minus a few actual use differences. I don't see the key features that IPS have but then again I don't see all the 'bad' stuff that mva's have compared to ips. I sure as hell don't want a TN panel lol. Fast response time is nice, but lacking colors, visual, I'll have slight ghosting.
Arr....you edited and I didn't re-read
Well, that explains it rather nicely. I guess I can keep my perfect "700:1 box/manual" with "1000:1 monitor" now. Nice, since I'm pretty much satisfied with this monitor. Although, I was sort of hoping the viewing angles would be a little better. (Black fade when non-perpendicular...wah.)
Jeez, a lot of confusion because of a little misprint, heh. The only thing now left to decide for me, is whether the input lag is livable.
With a 24" model, the best I've seen (on digitalversus.com) is the Dell 2407WFP (non-HC) with 23.7ms average (46 max, 11 min). Worse would be the Samsung 245T, with 58.8ms average (68ms max, 42 min). Compared to 22" models though, ... ouch.
The W2207 is listed as 5.8ms (0 min, 18 max). 226BW is 1.6ms (0 min, 8 max///3.8 for "A",) with the 226CW at, aie, 38.1 (47 max, 26 min) for whatever reason.
Basically, it's looking like the input lag is average for a 24", and if you want much better it's time for a 22". I guess I just need to decide if I value lower input lag more than 8-bit color/having fade-bright rather than fade-out.
Well, that explains it rather nicely. I guess I can keep my perfect "700:1 box/manual" with "1000:1 monitor" now. Nice, since I'm pretty much satisfied with this monitor. Although, I was sort of hoping the viewing angles would be a little better. (Black fade when non-perpendicular...wah.)
Jeez, a lot of confusion because of a little misprint, heh. The only thing now left to decide for me, is whether the input lag is livable.
With a 24" model, the best I've seen (on digitalversus.com) is the Dell 2407WFP (non-HC) with 23.7ms average (46 max, 11 min). Worse would be the Samsung 245T, with 58.8ms average (68ms max, 42 min). Compared to 22" models though, ... ouch.
The W2207 is listed as 5.8ms (0 min, 18 max). 226BW is 1.6ms (0 min, 8 max///3.8 for "A",) with the 226CW at, aie, 38.1 (47 max, 26 min) for whatever reason.
Basically, it's looking like the input lag is average for a 24", and if you want much better it's time for a 22". I guess I just need to decide if I value lower input lag more than 8-bit color/having fade-bright rather than fade-out.
I personally haven't really noticed any input lag, and don't have a proper camera to test any of that stuff, I do have a good camera, I just couldn't get the data I needed lol.
But if you are having input lag, than that would set this panel almost 100% as a MVA. I should test HDMI and VGA and see if I see any difference at all. I don't know what input you're using but I dunno lol.
But if you are having input lag, than that would set this panel almost 100% as a MVA. I should test HDMI and VGA and see if I see any difference at all. I don't know what input you're using but I dunno lol.
catchascatchcan
n00b
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
- Messages
- 10
Just got mine, haven't tested extensively yet, won't for a few days, just wanted to say that the crushing of blacks does appear to be correctable with calibration. With basic adjustments done, the image quality seems to be well within acceptable levels.
Got mine...
WUXGA... kicks ass
24"... huge (hope it seems this big for at least another week)
TN -> MVA transition... looks a lot better
input lag... I WANT TO THROW THIS THING OUT THE WINDOW.
I wasn't even able to right click my desktop and change resolution without saying to me self "oh god". If this is 30ms then I can't even imagine how people use LCDs with 50ms+ of lag. Maybe it's worse over VGA than HDMI, or at least I can hope... DVI>HDMI cable should be here friday and we'll see.
What brightness/contrast is everyone set at? I can't find a happy medium.
WUXGA... kicks ass
24"... huge (hope it seems this big for at least another week)
TN -> MVA transition... looks a lot better
input lag... I WANT TO THROW THIS THING OUT THE WINDOW.
I wasn't even able to right click my desktop and change resolution without saying to me self "oh god". If this is 30ms then I can't even imagine how people use LCDs with 50ms+ of lag. Maybe it's worse over VGA than HDMI, or at least I can hope... DVI>HDMI cable should be here friday and we'll see.
What brightness/contrast is everyone set at? I can't find a happy medium.
1. Input lag - um....I may have said that input lag would be the main reason why I wouldn't keep this monitor, but....I can barely notice it on the desktop. I notice it ever-so-slightly in UT2004, but not in other (non-fast-paced-FPS) games. With a CRT in clone, I can see an ever-so-slight difference, but only really if I'm switching from black to white full screen, or white to black while looking at both (no focus on either). It seems like the CRT changes colors ever-so-slightly before this LCD.
It should be around 1/30th of a second input lag. However, when not at optimal resolution, it may lag more. I don't know. Also, I've never used this monitor without a DVI->HDMI cable.
Honestly, I don't think it's horrible. It's less than perfectly optimal, but a reaction of "I want to throw this thing out the window" would certainly have been unwarranted on mine. Um...perhaps try the DVI->HDMI cable, and then see?
2. Settings: I'm at Contrast 80, Brightness 80. [Picture mode = 80 Brightness, Text = 40, Economy = 10.]
Color settings are from http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1231053, 32/32/38 (R-G-B). I'm, ah, partially colorblind, so I'm not gonna try to set it myself. (Red and green are duller(and/or get confused) for me than most people, particularly relative to blue.) Sharpness is at the default 3, but I haven't noticed a difference between the settings. Has anyone?
Don't see much of a difference in the Sharpness either. I know I'm about 2 years from being blind with big bottle coke end glasses, but I can barely tell the input lag at all. Every now and again, but nothing I can't handle. I'm more than happy with this monitor as of now.
Yeah I copied the color settings from that thread but his brightness was way to high for me. I'm at 50/80 right now.
I'm extremely sensitive to input lag I guess because I notice it all the time now Oh well... Gotta sacrifice some things to have a good display I guess.
I'm extremely sensitive to input lag I guess because I notice it all the time now
Oh well... Gotta sacrifice some things to have a good display I guess.Well, unless you go IPS....but then it's money.
I am now satisfied. The main thing was the thought that I could have potentially gotten a better monitor for the same price. As this is it, and there was only a printing ... discrepancy, I'm pleased.
The two issues left are fade-out with angled viewing (darks become lighter at edges when I move my head side-to-side, edges are usually slightly lighter than center) and input lag.
The input lag and viewing angles are both inherent properties of MVA panels, as far as I know, so the choice is to drop to a TN, keep this, or spend the big money on an IPS.
This seems like the best compromise of picture quality, response time/input lag, and price.
Also, just regarding calibration: It probably varies a little monitor-to-monitor, so if you're not colorblind, you may want to consider changing the settings slightly. And gamma calibration is recommended, also. (I used quickgamma.)
I am now satisfied. The main thing was the thought that I could have potentially gotten a better monitor for the same price. As this is it, and there was only a printing ... discrepancy, I'm pleased.
The two issues left are fade-out with angled viewing (darks become lighter at edges when I move my head side-to-side, edges are usually slightly lighter than center) and input lag.
The input lag and viewing angles are both inherent properties of MVA panels, as far as I know, so the choice is to drop to a TN, keep this, or spend the big money on an IPS.
This seems like the best compromise of picture quality, response time/input lag, and price.
Also, just regarding calibration: It probably varies a little monitor-to-monitor, so if you're not colorblind, you may want to consider changing the settings slightly. And gamma calibration is recommended, also. (I used quickgamma.)
Urinal Mint
n00b
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2007
- Messages
- 4
Or, actually, reinstalling windows...
actually i think i might be getting some input lag too...
it kind of feels like theres mouse accelleration on but i checked my logitech settings and its definately off.. i dont know if this is input lag or not but mouse movement just felt more responsive on my viewsonic vx2025wm
who knows it might just be my imagination- and the dvi-hdmi cable might be different
it kind of feels like theres mouse accelleration on but i checked my logitech settings and its definately off.. i dont know if this is input lag or not but mouse movement just felt more responsive on my viewsonic vx2025wm
who knows it might just be my imagination- and the dvi-hdmi cable might be different
Well, it's settled down to around 2 frames @ 60 fps now.
I tried playing UT2004 at 1680 X 1050 (1:1 mapping, so smaller screen) to raise my framerates, and it's perfectly playable. The input lag isn't noticeable, in my experience. The lower frame rates due to the resolution jump had me confused
This isn't to say that nobody could find objection, just that I am satisfied now. Yes, there is minor ghosting, but...I'm comparing straight from a lifetime of CRT usage so that may be unfair.
I am considering seeing if I can add a ~30ms delay for my audio though, just to see how that works out. Any methods that anyone knows of for doing this?
A13X: My understanding is that the digital signal will have less processing than analog, and so should have less input lag. G'luck.
I tried playing UT2004 at 1680 X 1050 (1:1 mapping, so smaller screen) to raise my framerates, and it's perfectly playable. The input lag isn't noticeable, in my experience. The lower frame rates due to the resolution jump had me confused
This isn't to say that nobody could find objection, just that I am satisfied now. Yes, there is minor ghosting, but...I'm comparing straight from a lifetime of CRT usage so that may be unfair.
I am considering seeing if I can add a ~30ms delay for my audio though, just to see how that works out. Any methods that anyone knows of for doing this?
A13X: My understanding is that the digital signal will have less processing than analog, and so should have less input lag. G'luck.
actually i think i might be getting some input lag too...
it kind of feels like theres mouse accelleration on but i checked my logitech settings and its definately off.. i dont know if this is input lag or not but mouse movement just felt more responsive on my viewsonic vx2025wm
who knows it might just be my imagination- and the dvi-hdmi cable might be different
It sorta feels like it's not as bad via hdmi, but the lag is still there and it's still pissing me off.
Another thing is, blacks (like the black screen with default windows screen saver) are nowhere near as black as my TN panel. What gives?
Do you have a CRT and Digicam? If so, test it. Perhaps you have a defective monitor.
You certainly shouldn't be getting over 40ms. More like 30-40ms from my testing. If you test, and get that, then I guess you're just particularly sensitive to input lag.