Just got my Ncase and.. I'm stocked! Need some dual AIO build advice from the pros!

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by brianj, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Gentlemen,

    i'm super stocked on just how small this thing is. Let me tell ya the pictures and videos on the web don't do justice to the overall compactness and the premium feel of this product! To be completely honest, i was regretting i bough this over the DAN Case or the Sentry but i'm really happy with my choice now.

    The build is fairly simple. Usual suspects. Asus Z270i, 7700k, 16GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX @ 3000mhz, 1TB 960 EVO and Corsair 600 SFX. As a graphic card i opted out for the MSI 1070 Sea hawk(though i can swap it for a 1070 Strix with a friend). I still have a few questions before i go ahead and build this little monster:)

    The goal is building a powerful yet fairly quiet gaming PC that will NOT thermal throttle. I also want to do a super clean build.

    1) I will order custom cables from Cable Mod. Whats the absolutely shortest length of PSU cables i can get away with?

    It's my first build so forgive my question.. Do i need any other cable beside the 24 pin and the 8pin for the GPU? I will not use any SATA HDD or SSD, just the M2.

    2) Corsair H50 VS H60 VS H75. As i plan to go dual AIO(more on that later) i would like to know which is the best performer.

    3) Fans orientation and set up. I will get 2 Corsair SP 120 Quiet Edition for the rads. The questions is.. intake or exhaust? I've seen a lot of different opinion on the subject but whats the general consensus in the [H] community?

    Do i have to install the fans on the rads inside the case(like linus) if i want intake? I see some people comments on Reddit having them on the outside and claiming they are intakes. I'm confused..

    4) Finally, many people succeed installing two AIO coolers. What are the challenges? Any advice that will save me time, ripped tubes and blood on my hands will be greatly appreciated:)

    Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for all the help!

    PS: I'm planning to do a full build log once i've got all the parts
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  2. incredadamible

    incredadamible [H]Lite

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    You will also need the 12V 8-pin for the motherboard
     
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  3. Jiv_au

    Jiv_au n00bie

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    Thanks for starting this thread! I've always wanted a thread focused on AIO options for the NCASE M1.


    I'd recommend making the measurements after you've build it using the cables that come with Corsair SF600 (I've heard that they are very stiff).
    That way you'll know the exact length required.

    I think the H75 is a bit too thick for the M1 case after you've added your fan to it, unless you get a thinner fan which I wouldn't recommend as they have lower static pressure.

    I'd recommend H50 or H60. They perform similar (temp, noise), but I vaguely remember reading that H60 has higher water flow.

    Personally I'd go for H60 and replace the fan with NF-F12 iPPC PWM 2000RPM (has higher static pressure).

    Your Asus Z270i appears to have PWM (4-pin) x 3 and AIO (3-pin) x 1 so you should have no trouble connecting the fans and pump without needing 4-pin/3-pin splitters.
    Note that you need 2 power for H50/60 (fan + pump).
    Only one power (fan) for the MSI GTX 1070 Sea Hawk is needed. (pump connected to GPU internally)

    I don't think it matters which way the fan faces (pushing air into or pulling air from radiator) as long as it moves air through the radiator.

    My recommendation is shown in the picture below, with fan as intake and inner side of radiator.
    The reasons are:
    - positive pressure (intake) will prevent dust buildup, except for the radiators. But dust on outer side of the radiators can be easily accessed and cleaned.
    - warm air inside case will be less of a concern in this setup because both CPU and GPU are AIO cooled.
    - radiators installed closest to the outside will allow enough space for the hose, otherwise they'd be squashed against the motherboard or PSU.


    The management of AIO hoses (and position of the pump on the CPU and radiator).
    Also, in what order it should be built (my best guess is motherboard+CPU+RAM, then cables (PSU, SATA, USB), then PSU, then SSD+HDD, then CPU AIO pump, then GPU, then radiators + fans)

    I strongly recommend viewing this thread - great pics on how 2 x AIO coolers can fit inside M1.
    https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/371979-two-aio-liquid-coolers-in-my-m1-ncase-pictures/
    (Picture courtesy of Greasy Bacon from the said link)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  4. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Ehy thanks for the advice! I was under the impression that the 24 pin was powering the whole MoBo? Anyway if someone can chime in on the length it'll be really helpful!
     
  5. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Thanks for taking the time to post this, It's super helpful! I'll check his thread. Looks like he's not struggling to push the 2 AIOs in.

    I was thinking that it's way easier to have the fans on the outer side of the radiators(more room to play with). Also do you recommend a case fan to push the hot hair out or you think is not necessary?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  6. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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  7. Jiv_au

    Jiv_au n00bie

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    Picture below of another NCASE M1 builder who tried fans on the outer side. He couldn't close the case due to the hoses getting in the way, and ended up rearranging it.
    Full build blog here: http://imgur.com/a/FOUhk

    I don't think they'd be much help as exhaust - given that it will be a 92mm fan and its exhaust airflow wouldn't be able to match the intake airflow of the 2 x 120mm fans on the radiators.


    [​IMG]
     
  8. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Hey thanks a lot! I'm glad ive found about this BEFORE I started the build
     
  9. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Anyone can help with custom cable mod length?
     
  10. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    its best to measure it yourself and the routing youll take. just use a piece of speaker or other wire to plan the routes and take measurements.
     
  11. Mrclean

    Mrclean n00bie

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    To be fair i didn't read everyones responses, just want to give you my $.02 after building in a M1 with two AIO's

    1) Whats the absolutely shortest length of PSU cables i can get away with? - I would suggest what pendragon said, of course the stock cables will be too long, but since ports are in different spots, and each build is unique, youd be better off measuring with your parts. That is still on my list, to do, but If i were to guess, 4-6 inches is probably more than enough.

    2) Corsair H50 VS H60 VS H75. - I use a H60 on my CPU and H55 on my GPU. I have no problem with temps. I am running an older i5 (so not much performance there) and a EVGA 970 FTW+. Max temps are 40-65, respectively.

    3) Fans orientation and set up. - I would not suggest those fans (personally) I went through a few corsair fans until i bit the bullet and bought some NF-F12's and never looked back. They are dumb quiet and perform well. I personally have the fans intaking air. I had the fans in push config, and when i replaced my old h60 which had a pump failed, i switched to pull. I can't say Ive seen a difference. The benefit i found to having them in push, is that it sets the radiators back a bit, so they do not interfere with the frame.

    4) What are the challenges? - As I saw mentioned once or twice, it will be tight, but it can be done. Ideally I will be adjusting the loops so that I can get the GPU rad in the rear so that my newly added Noctua 92mm fan can help exhaust the hot air.


    I have some pictures I can upload or can take more if needed. I also made a time lapse when i was switching out my h60, might give you some insite or tips.

    Feel free to PM if you have any other questions as well! Happy Building!

     
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  12. incredadamible

    incredadamible [H]Lite

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    Motherboards have a 4 or 8 pin in addition to the 24 pin power. If you look up the spec for the Asus board you mentioned, it specifically states 24 pin EATX and 8 pin ATX power...

    I would also recommend waiting for your motherboard to come in to lay out the cable routing and take your measurements. Plus, your idea of proper routing/clearances/etc may be different from someone elses. If you are investing the cash for custom cabling, you should definitely try to get exactly what you want.

    If you really can't wait, look up the manual for the motherboard to get the layout and try your best to approximate distances.
     
  13. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Wow thanks a lot for that! I really appreciate your help. I will definitely let you know how it goes. Do you have any suggestions for the fans? I know the noctua are good but I can't get past the color..
     
  14. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Good point. I think I will wait until I have all the parts to order the custom cables
     
  15. Erasmus354

    Erasmus354 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You should be able to search through the main M1 thread. I believe there were custom lengths and reviews of those lengths posted for the Asus Z170 board which looks to be almost identical in the placement of the power connectors to the Z270 board.


    EDIT: Here is one recommendation on cable lengths, ymmv

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  16. Mrclean

    Mrclean n00bie

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    Function over form IMO. You can't really see them anyways
     
  17. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Thanks!!! Sir, You rock:)
     
  18. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    You totally right. But my slight OCD won't allow me to sleep at night knowing I have brown fans inside my beautiful case:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  19. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Just out of curiosity.. What 92mm fan are you using? Does it make a difference with temps?
     
  20. Jiv_au

    Jiv_au n00bie

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    Hi Mrclean.

    Thanks for your youtube post. That is one of the video clips I've watched to plan my NCASE M1 (I'm waiting on Ryzen + X300 mobo release).

    Please let us know how your 92mm rear fan goes in terms of lowering temperature. Will you be plugging that into your CPU fan header?
     
  21. Mrclean

    Mrclean n00bie

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    Currently is is hooked up to the GPU temp controlled hub. The idea was to have the GPU rad in the rear, but I'll need to re adjust the block, and I'm in the process of moving, so that has to wait. As far as temps, I don't have any off hand, but can get some after the move when she's all unpacked!
     

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  22. darksable

    darksable Limp Gawd

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    I do get that, but don't think about it as having some ugly brown fan in there. The brown and tan is a badge - it's a sign that you have the best. (Much like fire-truck red on a ferrari, or really ugly headlights on a lambo.)

    If it really bothers you that much, it's entirely your call... But I'm a second vote to stay away from the corsair fans. I went with them when I first started watercooling, and now have a box of them sitting around.

    They're great fans for about the first six months, and then they start to have both performance issues and terrible noise profiles.
     
  23. Mrclean

    Mrclean n00bie

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    Same. I have a few PWM ones laying around and a bunch of white LED ones that I have nothing to do with... Do it right, or do it twice haha
     
  24. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Thank you Clean and Darksable for the advice on the fan. I realize that I won't see them but they look really really bad.

    So let's negotiate:) Opinions on Noctua's own Industrial or Redux fans?

    Lastly why you think corsair are bad? There are quite a few good reviews out there..?

    Thanks for taking the time to help:) I will be pulling the trigger this week!!!
     
  25. darksable

    darksable Limp Gawd

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    Haha, okay. I'm sure we can find you something that'll work.

    Noctua's industrial fans are great, but they have a much higher minimum RPM, so they're louder on idle. If you don't mind that, then by all means, go for it.

    The Redux fans don't have the vibration dampening, which isn't a huge deal. What is a bit of a deal-killer is that they are designed to be used as case fans, so they'll be louder and less effective on a radiator.


    Now, as for Corsair: yeah, there are a lot of happy reviews of them. Like I said above, they're great fans... For the first six months.

    Very few people are going to go back six months later to write a poor review, and basically nobody who hasn't already written one will go write one at that point. Almost all user reviews are written within one to two weeks of owning the product, during which time the Corsair fans perform great.

    However, like we've said, they fail. Quickly. The bearings are absolutely horrible. I have four AF140s and at least half a dozen AF120s that are sitting in a box. Why?

    Because every single one of them began to get way, way noisier around the six month mark, because of the bearing. Two AF120s, which I kept using for about a year and a half, subsequently failed entirely. That's a pathetic lifetime for a premium fan.




    What about Yate Loon fans? They're all black and are exceptionally good quality - plus are nearly as silent as Noctuas'.
     
  26. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Wow.. I didn't know the corsair have such an high failure rate!

    Actually I do mind about noise as my goal is to have a powerful- yet quiet gaming PC to sit next to my 4K TV.

    So I guess the industrial fans are not an option((( Can i underwolt them or something?

    As for redux fans, are you saying that they are more like HAF rather than SP?

    Which Yate Loom 120mm do you recommend for radiators? Do they have 80/92mm fan case as well? Their website it's a bit hard to navigate(((


    w
     
  27. darksable

    darksable Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it's kind of a shame, really. Undervolting the Noctuas isn't a great option because they use a different motor - that's why they can spin at a much higher max RPM than normal, too. It might work just fine, there might be some funny noises, or it just might not be enough power to get the fan spinning in the first place.

    That being said, however, the industrial fans really might be your best option, especially considering how cramped that case is liable to be with two rads.

    On the Redux fans: Yes, exactly.

    Yate Loon does have 92mm fans, but like most others... They're noisy. The smaller the fan, the faster it has to spin and the louder it'll be. There's no escaping that. Where are you trying to fit a 92mm fan anyways?

    I would suggest buying one Industrial Noctua and seeing how the noise profile is for you - although they tend to be noisier, most of that noise is airflow, and everything else is very low pitched, so it's way less irritating than a lot of other fans.
     
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  28. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Hey Darksable,

    thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I was considering to mount a 92mm to help exhaust some hot air from the case. I get a lot people are NOT recommending a 92mm in the NCase but it's still better than no hot air being pushed out of the case.. I'm i wrong?


    To recap the whole fan deal:

    Corsair= Crap. The same holds true for the newer ML series?

    Puke-colored Noctuas= Best balance of cooling performance and noise

    Redux= Useless on rads

    Industrial= Noisier than the brown ones but better performers and generally considered quieter than most of other 120mm fans

    Yate Loon= Comparable to the brown Noctuas. Which 120mm model do you recommend?

    Every other brand= Not as good as the Noctuas?

    92mm case fan= Useless? If not which is the best 92mm fan?
     
  29. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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  30. darksable

    darksable Limp Gawd

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    Of course, always happy to help. :)

    As for using a 92mm fan as exhaust, it depends on your goals. Since silence is part of them, I wouldn't bother with the small fan. It's not like the case is large enough for you to have to worry about dead air, especially with the amount of positive pressure you'll have.

    I don't have experience with the ML series personally. I was interested when they were first announced, but they took so long to be available that I forgot about them.

    Because they're using a totally different bearing, they might actually be a decent option. I would try and hunt down a long-term review, or to find someone who's had them running for a while. Magnetic bearings are by no means new, but this is the first I've seen of them on a totally mainstream platform.


    The ugly noctuas are actually not the ultimate best performing fans out there by any means... But they are pretty much totally silent and still perform better than most fans that don't just straight up sound like a 747 taking off.

    Industrials will be quieter than other fans going their speed, however there are a lot of quieter options in fans that don't spin nearly as fast.

    The Yate Loons, in my experience, are a mid-way point between the classic Noctuas and the Industrial ones. They also have extremely durable bearings.

    As for that EK fan, I can't tell you much about it right now - I would have to do some more research, and that's a pain on my phone. Just going by the specs, it looks pretty good, but I would never take manufacturer specs without a grain of salt.
     
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  31. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Thanks, I have a much clearer picture now! I won't bother with the 92mm fan as you suggested. I also decided I will not go for the regular corsair. I will try to do some more research on the ML series, Yate Loom and EK Fans and see what I find out:)
     
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  32. darksable

    darksable Limp Gawd

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    Sounds like a plan - share your thoughts when you decide what to do? This thread could prove useful for others in the future. :)
     
  33. brianj

    brianj n00bie

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    Will Do! As soon as I get the parts I will report back)))