JOHN WICK 4 AND MATRIX 4 THREAD (All Keanu)

Krenum

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I would take the Red pill, if we are living in the Matrix, the real world couldn't possibly be as fucked up as the world were living in now!
 

Krenum

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Lana Wachowski says bringing back Neo and Trinity for The Matrix 4 helped her grieve​

https://ew.com/movies/lana-wachowski-neo-trinity-return-matrix-4-helped-her-grieve/

"It never was interesting to me as an idea to continue it," she said. "Then something really hard happened: Both my parents got ill. My dad first got ill, and my wife and I went home to take care of them, and we were really close to them. And also a good friend died in this very short period… It was just this constant grief. My dad died, then this friend died, then my mom died. I didn't really know how to process that kind of grief. I hadn't experienced it that closely."

Lana recalled crying one night she couldn't fall asleep. "Suddenly," she said, "my brain just exploded this whole story."

"I couldn't have my mom and dad… yet suddenly I had Neo and Trinity, arguably the two most important characters in my life," she continued. "It was immediately comforting to have these two characters alive again, and it's super-simple. You can look at it and say: 'Okay, these two people die, and okay, bring these two people back to life, and oh, doesn't that feel good?' Yeah, it did! It's simple, and this is what art does and this is what stories do. They comfort us and they're important."

I can relate...
 

Dayaks

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I would take the Red pill, if we are living in the Matrix, the real world couldn't possibly be as fucked up as the world were living in now!
I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it. I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink. And every time I do I feel I have somehow been infected by it. It's repulsive, isn't it? I must get out of here. I must get free…
 

aliaskary77

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my response presented as a popular joke nowadays...

Someone asks the husband: "If you died and went to heaven today, would you want (a) your wife with you or (b)....
Husband: "B!......B!.....definitely b!"

Love the wife and kids, but red pill it is!
 

Krenum

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i just watched that episode of married with children, classic.
I miss that show so much. As I got older, I realized how brilliant it was. The show always portrayed Al having a crummy life, but in reality, he had the life any of us would want, good friends, steady job, good looking wife and kids ect. Maybe Al took the blue pill.
 

pendragon1

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I miss that show so much. As I got older, I realized how brilliant it was. The show always portrayed Al having a crummy life, but in reality, he had the life any of us would want, good friends, good looking wife and kids ect.
its on prime, im rewatching it now. idk though, peg screws him over hard almost every episode, i feel for him.
 

Krenum

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Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) couldn't also help her grieve?
I too wish Laurence was in the new one, we'll see how it goes. I'm under the impression that you can look how you want to look in The Matrix, so Morpheus being portrayed as younger is ok, depending on the story (which we know very little about) maybe it was the only choice to having Morpheus being younger. Although, with de aging technology now days they could have cast Laurence as Morpheus again I assume.
 

Eshelmen

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No amount of technology was going to make Laurence Fishburne look as good as Yahya Abdul-Mateen, tho.

I'd have to agree with this.

1631765867611.png
 

SmokeRngs

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REAL TALK.

Was having this discussion with my wife. Imagine the MATRIX is real and you're living in it right now, Morpheus shows up and offers you a red or blue pill, which would you take?

I would take the blue pill and the reason why is because of my family. I wouldn't want to separate from my wife and children, physically or digitally. My wife agreed she would take the blue pill too.

That being said, if I was younger and without a family I would take the red pill 💊
I guess you don't realize that in the Matrix you don't have a wife or children. They are literal figments of imagination. No wife, no kids, no life, nothing.
 

Aurelius

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I'd say red pill. My soon-to-be wife and I would probably find each other in the real world, and we're both the sorts who'd rather learn the hard truth than deal with the comfortable illusion.

Side note: I hate how a legion of toxic assholes coopted the term "red pill" to justify whatever hateful views they had. I'm hoping the new movie helps take it back.
 

Verge

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I stopped watching the MCU movies after my wife wanted me to go see the one with the infinity stones in it and all the disappearing people. It was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a theater and I refuse to watch subsequent MCU films. Jewelry that makes people disappear is just a little too far into crazyland.
It wasn't ever the jewelry for me, it was the snapping of fingers. That was an example, he doesn't need to actually snap his fingers lol, yet they based like 5 damn scenes around that premise. Makes no sense at all.
 

Wade88

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I don't recall any snapping fingers but I brought a kindle on low brightness to read during all the other Marvel movies she dragged me to prior to that one. For the jewelry one she forced me to leave it at home on pain of no homecooked dinner. Never again.
 
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View attachment 395374

Ps. A mcguffin has no intrinsic value and exists only to further the plot, the most famous mcguffin is the briefcase from Pulp Fiction, it literally does nothing but drive the plot.

The infinity stones have a purpose, are actively used and do something, and exist across mediums keeping continuity as much as comics do (comics, tv, and movies) they maybe silly, but their not a mcguffin by any stretch.
The glove?
 

Aireoth

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The glove?
Isn't a McGuffin, it serves a purpose beyond just moving the plot forward.

What does the brief case in Pulp Fiction do? Nothing, we don't know what is in it, it does not do anything, it is just a object that the Characters are chasing after to move the plot forward, and in the end it still does nothing.

The glove holds the infinity stones allowing the user to access one or a combination of their powers without suffering catastrophic damage (as stated in Guardians of the Galaxy it is all but impossible for a mortal to hold an infinity stone and not die, so they use objects to hold the power for them). Even then both gloves clearly have (differing) limits in how much power they can sustain and protect the user from. Thanos is left wounded at the end of Infinity War from using the Nidavellir glove, and Iron Man's glove severely injures the Hulk when he reverses Thanos' snap (where as the other glove could do that without injury) and kills Ironman. The glove has function.

Now if the Glove was just something that everyone was after but did nothing other than just exist, it would be a McGuffin.
 

LukeTbk

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I'd say red pill. My soon-to-be wife and I would probably find each other in the real world, and we're both the sorts who'd rather learn the hard truth than deal with the comfortable illusion.

Side note: I hate how a legion of toxic assholes coopted the term "red pill" to justify whatever hateful views they had. I'm hoping the new movie helps take it back.
Not sure many that use the expression know that red pills was because it was the color of a popular estrogen pills:
WYE08670.jpg


Used by transitionner at the time, in the script one character was a men in the matrix and a woman in the real world (or vice versa), it did not past casting but they did not change the script and casted an androgenic actor, Keenu Reave reaction the first time he see them in the matrix was kept has if he had seen the sex change and when they did they say not like this, because they did not in the gender they identify with.

Ps. A mcguffin has no intrinsic value and exists only to further the plot, the most famous mcguffin is the briefcase from Pulp Fiction, it literally does nothing but drive the plot.

It can have, think the magic letter in Casablanca, it is very useful and used but it make no sense and the audience do not care that it make no sense., The Deaths stars in many star wars films and so on.

For the Infinity stones I am sure it is one for a large part of the audiences, just something for the heroes to care about, but I imagine some goes in details about it in their mind and it stop being one for them.
 

LukeTbk

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What does the brief case in Pulp Fiction do? Nothing, we don't know what is in it, it does not do anything, it is just a object that the Characters are chasing after to move the plot forward, and in the end it still does nothing.
What does the letter of transit do in Casablanca ? It is something that let the character leave the town and at the end they use it, still a McGuffin, the Falcon or the pulp fiction briefcase are just one example.
 

pendragon1

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Not sure many that use the expression know that red pills was because it was the color of a popular estrogen pills:
WYE08670.jpg


Used by transitionner at the time, in the script one character was a men in the matrix and a woman in the real world (or vice versa), it did not past casting but they did not change the script and casted an androgenic actor, Keenu Reave reaction the first time he see them in the matrix was kept has if he had seen the sex change and when they did they say not like this, because they did not in the gender they identify with.
lol thats a fanfic they adopted when the trans-trender craze hit. they even said it wasnt that way but could be interpreted(twisted) that way.
 
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I guess you don't realize that in the Matrix you don't have a wife or children. They are literal figments of imagination. No wife, no kids, no life, nothing.

Everybody (including babies) in the MATRIX is real but plugged in, watch the below clip from the movie. My wife and children would be real but our lives wouldn't be though our love for each other would be real I believe. That was part of the debate within the film itself too about what is real, free will and destiny.



 

LukeTbk

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lol thats a fanfic they adopted when the trans-trender craze hit. they even said it wasnt that way but could be interpreted(twisted) that way.
The director of the movie talk about it:

The script was clearer, the characther was named switch and changed gender in the movie from matrix to real world. Maybe the red pills was added post-hoc, but the theme was in the movie (made by 2 people that transitioned soon after). If you ever rewatch it, look how Neo react to Switch in the real world the first time.

I guess you don't realize that in the Matrix you don't have a wife or children. They are literal figments of imagination. No wife, no kids, no life, nothing.
Been a while since my last watch, but if you take the blue pill you do not remember that the Matrix exist, which make the experience the exact same.
 

Aireoth

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What does the letter of transit do in Casablanca ? It is something that let the character leave the town and at the end they use it, still a McGuffin, the Falcon or the pulp fiction briefcase are just one example.
Not sure many that use the expression know that red pills was because it was the color of a popular estrogen pills:
WYE08670.jpg


Used by transitionner at the time, in the script one character was a men in the matrix and a woman in the real world (or vice versa), it did not past casting but they did not change the script and casted an androgenic actor, Keenu Reave reaction the first time he see them in the matrix was kept has if he had seen the sex change and when they did they say not like this, because they did not in the gender they identify with.



It can have, think the magic letter in Casablanca, it is very useful and used but it make no sense and the audience do not care that it make no sense., The Deaths stars in many star wars films and so on.

For the Infinity stones I am sure it is one for a large part of the audiences, just something for the heroes to care about, but I imagine some goes in details about it in their mind and it stop being one for them.
not sure what your point is, yes mcguffins exist throughout cinema, I only stated that the most obvious and talked about mcguffin (in recent history) is the briefcase.

In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is an object, device, or event that is necessary to the plot and the motivation of the characters, but is also ultimately insignificant, unimportant, or irrelevant in itself, existing mainly to spur action within the story.

Its pretty hard to argue that the infinity stones where insignificant, unimportant, or irrelevant in itself, especially pre-loki. They are fairly central to most of the marvel movies, not just the last teo Avenger movies.
 

pendragon1

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The director of the movie talk about it:

The script was clearer, the characther was named switch and changed gender in the movie from matrix to real world. Maybe the red pills was added post-hoc, but the theme was in the movie (made by 2 people that transitioned soon after). If you ever rewatch it, look how Neo react to Switch in the real world the first time.


Been a while since my last watch, but if you take the blue pill you do not remember that the Matrix exist, which make the experience the exact same.
https://www.newsweek.com/matrix-creator-red-pill-trans-allegory-mens-rights-activists-1523669 (article has a shit representation of what red pilled means to "the right", typical lefty caricatures)
"Wachowski also said that while she may not have actively been thinking about the trans themes of The Matrix, while creating it, her preference for sci-fi movies and books certainly did. "I don't know how present my trans-ness was in the background of my brain, while we were writing it, but it all came from the same sort of fire that I'm talking about, and because trans people exist in this-especially for me and Lana-we were existing in this world where the words didn't exist. So we were always living in a world of imagination. That's why I gravitated towards science fiction and fantasy," she said."

yes maybe switch was a metaphor, maybe, i only ever heard it after the trend started. also, when neo meets her, its in first person view, there is no reaction to be seen.

1631817173847.png



maybe they need to get on the same page as to what their story is...
 

LukeTbk

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yes maybe switch was a metaphor, maybe, i only ever heard it after the trend started. also, when neo meets her, its in first person view, there is no reaction to be seen.
Not when they get presented obviously, when he see her (in the script) in a different gender in the matrix form, it is from memory when they get out of a door and look back.
 

Krenum

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Everybody (including babies) in the MATRIX is real but plugged in, watch the below clip from the movie. My wife and children would be real but our lives wouldn't be though our love for each other would be real I believe. That was part of the debate within the film itself too about what is real, free will and destiny.



You don't have a wife or a child.
 

LukeTbk

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around 42 second here:

It could be all ad hoc, because that a common Reeve face of confusion and it could be acting seeing the sun and the rest of the world (it is really not that clear, same for the not like this line in the movie), but that according to some supposed to be some confusion of him realising that the male he saw previously was the female in the real word (or the other around), old script draft in 96-97 do not mention any of it, so you could easily be right.
 
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pendragon1

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around 42 second here:

It could be all ad hoc, because that a common Reeve face of confusion and it could be acting seeing the sun and the rest of the world (it is really not that clear, same for the not like this line in the movie), but that according to some supposed to be some confusion of him understand that the male he saw previously was the female in the real word (or the other around), old script draft in 96-97 do not mention any of it, so you could easily be right.
thats how i react when i stumble down an unexpected partial step like he just did. then, yeah, it looks like reaction the sun. to me, switch just looks dirty and warn down in the real but still female. she does kinda have a stereotypical lesbian look to her though....
 

WorldExclusive

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I too wish Laurence was in the new one, we'll see how it goes. I'm under the impression that you can look how you want to look in The Matrix, so Morpheus being portrayed as younger is ok, depending on the story (which we know very little about) maybe it was the only choice to having Morpheus being younger. Although, with de aging technology now days they could have cast Laurence as Morpheus again I assume.
It's a fictional Matrix Neo is plugged into, trying to convince Neo that everything he saw was just a movie.
I think the machines never knew what Morpheus looked like and he was made younger but just another program IMO.
Neo says to him, "You don't know who I am" further telling that Neo probably sees that he could just be a program out to trick him.

Later in the trailer Morpheus was dressed like an agent, which means he was probably trying to trick the machines into thinking he was helping them.
When really he was most likely on the side of Neo and the blue hair woman. Maybe they freed him? He touches the mirror with amazement in the trailer, the real Morpheus was never amazed by that.
 
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Eshelmen

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around 42 second here:

It could be all ad hoc, because that a common Reeve face of confusion and it could be acting seeing the sun and the rest of the world (it is really not that clear, same for the not like this line in the movie), but that according to some supposed to be some confusion of him realising that the male he saw previously was the female in the real word (or the other around), old script draft in 96-97 do not mention any of it, so you could easily be right.
Slightly off topic, but I always wondered why Cypher called the agents before they went to the Oracle. At least an hour went by before they returned, kind of slow to assemble the swat teams, and agents I'd say.
 

cybereality

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It could be all ad hoc, because that a common Reeve face of confusion and it could be acting seeing the sun and the rest of the world (it is really not that clear, same for the not like this line in the movie), but that according to some supposed to be some confusion of him realising that the male he saw previously was the female in the real word (or the other around), old script draft in 96-97 do not mention any of it, so you could easily be right.
Honestly, I think it's a stretch. I mean, the character is clearly a lesbian, but I think that is as far as it goes.
 

LukeTbk

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Honestly, I think it's a stretch. I mean, the character is clearly a lesbian, but I think that is as far as it goes.
That not what it is claimed, what is claimed that the intention was 2 have 2 different actor, one woman, one man to play Switch, that was changed over time and they went with a compromise very androgen casting and kept when shooting it reference has if they went with the preferred option with Reeve playing it has if that was the case and the "not like this" line during the death scene to represent not dying in my not preferred identity.

But like I said I personally do not known if that is not added things and the Wachowski agreeing with it ad-hoc and imdb being wrong with the casting process.
 

Krenum

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He touches the mirror with amazement in the trailer, the real Morpheus was never amazed by that.
That's a good point. Morpheus wouldn't be amazed by that, he would know what it was and why he's seeing it. Something is fucky!
 

sfsuphysics

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REAL TALK.

Was having this discussion with my wife. Imagine the MATRIX is real and you're living in it right now, Morpheus shows up and offers you a red or blue pill, which would you take?

I would take the blue pill and the reason why is because of my family. I wouldn't want to separate from my wife and children, physically or digitally. My wife agreed she would take the blue pill too.

That being said, if I was younger and without a family I would take the red pill 💊
Why would you even need to take any pill at all? Some dude comes up tells you this big story, and you're going to swallow a pill he offers? Now if you want to to go in the other direction, then sure, but the blue pill? It may cause you to die and then there's one less battery for the machine to use.
 

Eshelmen

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How dangerous would it have been to mass release the human fields by detonating an emp close by?

Or better question, what strategy could they have done to mass release those humans in the fields?

From what I recall, nothing really changed for all those stuck inside the matrix at the end of M3 lol.
 

cybereality

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Well, they are plugged into the Matrix, so it would be like pulling the plug in the movie (meaning they would all probably die).
 
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