JOHN WICK 4 AND MATRIX 4 THREAD (All Keanu)

trasixes

Gawd
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That sound like a strawman, what would kill mean here, going near 0 ? The debate is how large the negative effect is, not if it kill them.

Study have long shown that the quality of the piracy content (HD and so on) is quite important to how much it hurt, and it was always reducing non box office part of the revenues I think.
Strawman? No, I've been quite clear, but you seem to have strayed from the original intent...

Do well, in theaters? Unlikely as you can watch it same day, and it will be pirated like hell

He believes piracy can/will prevent Matrix 4 from doing well in theaters, and I'm arguing against that.
 

sleepeeg3

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i love how you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what the word millennial means. like not even the vaguest notion
My bad! I had a specific clueless, mid-millennial in mind when I wrote that. Realize that most of the audience here are probably older millennials - no offense to you all. Gen Y/Alpha would have been more accurate. Back to topic...

To quote Steven King: "Story follows Character. Character doesn't follow story". All the juice and the magic is in the characters. And by all impressions, the story here isn't going to be so groundbreaking or mind bending that it will possibly make up for throwing away the built up capital in three movies worth of Fishburne character development. Massive oversight, IMO.
Not including Morpheus seems like a major oversight, but as SK said, story is paramount. Most remakes focus on special FX over story, because audiences come anyway. I can't think of a recent sequel that tried to ressurect a 20+ year old plot where that worked. Vote with your wallet.
 
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Youn

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And jumping off a building holding hands..? Right out of Hawaii Five-O: The Christmas Episode. I mean my god.
I didn't get that impression, but I've also never seen Hawaii Five-O or much of whatever "CW" is... I thought the production itself looked good, and the relationship between the characters is the only redeaming thing about Matrix IMO, maybe there's a reason they are holding hands like that, I kinda doubt it's because they are just lovey-dovey forever soul-mates or whatever...
 

SamuelL421

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Trailer looks like 99% of new action movies - Michael Bay BS. As expected. Nostalgia cash-in for the millennials.

Please inform your millennial kids that the majority of the great movies are NOT on Netflix/Amazon Prime/Hulu/Disney+. You are better off watching the originals. They used to have this thing called a "plot", but you have to buy this thing called "physical media."

i love how you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what the word millennial means. like not even the vaguest notion

It has been a long time the last millénial was a kid, a millenial is someone that was old enough to be aware of 9-11 when it happened 20 year's ago.

http://www.millennialmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Image-1-1_v2.png

They are 25 to 40 years old now.

It gets old seeing the hot takes where folks use millennial as some sort of BS catch-all for "youth". I'm in that group and hell I went to see the matrix in theaters. Gen X only goes from 1965-1979, everyone a few years younger is a "Millennial" and most of us haven't been kids for about 20+ years...

Please, if you see annoying children / young people, just remember they are Generation Z. They suck and we all agree they generally ruin everything we hold dear.
 

trasixes

Gawd
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It gets old seeing the hot takes where folks use millennial as some sort of BS catch-all for "youth".

I was just thinking that myself lol

Please, if you see annoying children / young people, just remember they are Generation Z. They suck and we all agree they generally ruin everything we hold dear.

If you think about it, the youth people love to complain about were created by GenX/Millennial parents, so they are obviously to blame!
 

DPI

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I didn't get that impression, but I've also never seen Hawaii Five-O or much of whatever "CW" is... I thought the production itself looked good, and the relationship between the characters is the only redeaming thing about Matrix IMO, maybe there's a reason they are holding hands like that, I kinda doubt it's because they are just lovey-dovey forever soul-mates or whatever...
It was the cliche' aspect of how it looked, not just that they were holding hands. It brought this kinda stupidity to mind:

1631219625034.png
 

Dan_D

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uh, is there an older generation that has a positive opinion about the the younger one? seems people just get grumpy as they get old... (yes, I'm grumpy today, lol)
No. My parents didn't hold my generation in high regard. My grandparents didn't like my parents generation, and so on. Honestly, I think it comes down to seeing the next generation's lack of experience and their ideas as being stupid. It seems perfectly natural to me.

Beyond that, I guess I am probably one of the few people who have no interest in a Matrix 4 and limited interest in John Wick 4. I think the John Wick movies have gotten worse with each installment. I've enjoyed them well enough thus far, but I can't see several more of these being good. I thought the Matrix movies sucked after the first one, so I really couldn't care less for those.
 

Verge

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My comments are in regard to whether or not piracy kills the box office revenue - not arguing whether streaming has a negative effect. There was an early pirated release of FF9, for example, and it did very well.
Yea you keep talking about piracty, which is only 1/2 of what i said. I still can't understand why you are so fixated on that, and refuse to discuss the main point of my comment. Kinda rude.. oh well, i'm moving to the other thread. bye.
 

Krenum

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What if John Wick and the Matrix are one in the same. What if John Wick was/is a program that the machines use to control Neo for when they need him again (in case of any rogue programs try to take over again) What if the loss of John Wick's dog and wife were just a fabrication of Neo's mind longing for the Trinity?

I think Neo is an antivirus still plugged in to the Matrix and the events of the last 3 movies "outside" The Matrix weren't real.

...You never know.
 

trasixes

Gawd
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Yea you keep talking about piracy, which is only 1/2 of what i said. I still can't understand why you are so fixated on that, and refuse to discuss the main point of my comment. Kinda rude.. oh well, i'm moving to the other thread. bye.
Wasn't trying to be rude, but I didn't have much to say that would be interesting/thought-provoking. Some things we agree on, or at least find a middle ground (it won't be a GREAT movie).

Do well, in theaters? Unlikely as you can watch it same day, and it will be pirated like hell. Do well as in be a good movie? Well it would be fitting for a single good movie to come out in 2021, and it happen right before the year is over. But very unlikely, this movie is going to be awful.

I do expect it to do well in theaters (relative to other BIG films in the pandemic) despite streaming same day. In my mind, Matrix films (and other films with lots of special effects wizardry and action sequences) are best experienced on the big screen. I have a 120" in-ceiling projector screen/projector setup, but it still doesn't come close to the big screen at the theater for certain movies. As far as the movie itself, it could be awful.. or just OK (what I expect), but the only way to decide is to see it and I really think many will at the theater. Keep in mind, I'm speaking only of domestic (US/CAN).
 

WorldExclusive

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uh, is there an older generation that has a positive opinion about the the younger one? seems people just get grumpy as they get old... (yes, I'm grumpy today, lol)
Being told to "get with the times" is always uncomfortable after doing something you know for so long.
 

Krenum

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Being told to "get with the times" is always uncomfortable after doing something you know for so long.
Never understood why "get with the times" was a relevant statement, because as soon as you say it, it becomes past tense.
 

Colonel Sanders

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i read a plot leak from back in june from a supposed screening in irvine, ca. normally i don't believe those types of leaks but this one was apparently legit as every single shot in the trailer is described, and it gives context that actually makes sense of some of the weirdness. based on what's in the leak, it's not a... terrible script. some stuff is actually quite neat. on the other hand, some of it (such as the morpheus stuff) feels downright stupid.
 

pendragon1

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i read a plot leak from back in june from a supposed screening in irvine, ca. normally i don't believe those types of leaks but this one was apparently legit as every single shot in the trailer is described, and it gives context that actually makes sense of some of the weirdness. based on what's in the leak, it's not a... terrible script. some stuff is actually quite neat. on the other hand, some of it (such as the morpheus stuff) feels downright stupid.
ive heard those rumblings too but havent looked to deep.
 

Colonel Sanders

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ive heard those rumblings too but havent looked to deep.
don't look too deep if you don't want it spoiled, because it WILL spoil 90% of it. my expectations were/are very low so i'm cool with that, but if you're more hyped than i am, stay away from the googles.
 

cybereality

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This looks so good. Definitely has potential to be a real mind-fuck like the first movie.

I'm just glad they went with another world/timeline and didn't try a straight continuation.
 

sfsuphysics

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Black widow, like i said earlier, had such a bad box office disney is getting sued. Quiet place part II... same thing. WW1984 grossed 166 million. The original Wonder Woman did more than that in 3 days!
Johanson is suing Disney because her contract had her getting some money on the back end based on theater ticket sales, because they released it online at the same time the money they made from that she didn't get any part of. I also think her contract specifically said that the movie had to exclusively be in theaters otherwise they would have released it earlier but due to COVID theaters were largely not open. That said there is still the COVID effect when it comes to theater goers, so to say piracy is the sole cause of that is very shortsighted. That said, and this is really a IMHO thing, Black Widow was really a mediocre movie it very well could have been a generic action flick renamed Jaquelline Bourne, and other than the character really had very weak ties to the whole Marvel universe, it wasn't an origin story, it really didn't progress the character at all, if anything it only gave is some future storylines with her sister and only due to the end credit scene.

As for WW1984 that movie was absolutely fucking horrible, like it was beyond bad. That and COVID is the reason why it did less than 30 million the opening weekend. Don't discount the word of mouth keeping people away, plus again Dec 2020 things weren't exactly open everywhere. Piracy probably had very little to do with that movie being a huge flop.
 

cybereality

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Where I live, movie theaters have been mandated to be closed and only opened this summer, but now I think there are some restrictions still (capacity, etc.).

Plus, even if the theaters were open, people could be hesitant to be locked in a room with 200 randos during a pandemic. I'm sure it had a huge effect.
 

LukeTbk

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uh, is there an older generation that has a positive opinion about the the younger one? seems people just get grumpy as they get old... (yes, I'm grumpy today, lol)
Some of the first Greek writing is about the young's and their using writing too much and too young and that it will destroy their memories (which did happen but many thousand of year's later when paper became cheaps in the 18-19th century)....

I could see an older generation having a general positive generation of the WW1 soldier generation but than again I am not ever sure of that.
 

LukeTbk

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Johanson is suing Disney because her contract had her getting some money on the back end based on theater ticket sales, because they released it online at the same time the money they made from that she didn't get any part of. I also think her contract specifically said that the movie had to exclusively be in theaters otherwise they would have released it earlier but due to COVID theaters were largely not open.
Disney did roll out D+ vod sales into the box office for bonus calculation and the contract did not stipulate that the movie would have an exclusive theatrical release, what is being argue that in 2017 when you signed a contract that said that the movie would have to release on a minimum of 1,400 screens that it meant an exclusive theatrical release, because until very recently it was impossible and in 2017 unimaginable to release that wide without being exclusive.

Look how well Free Guy did relative to expectation (and A Quiet Place 2 and Shang Shi that is already ahead of Black Widow).

Strawman? No, I've been quite clear, but you seem to have strayed from the original intent...

I am not sure what kill would mean in that sentence that is not a strawman.
 

sfsuphysics

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Disney did roll out D+ vod sales into the box office for bonus calculation
Really? Everything I've read says that's the big sticking point is that VOD sales take away from box office,

Look how well Free Guy did relative to expectation (and A Quiet Place 2 and Shang Shi that is already ahead of Black Widow).
What was the expectation? Free guy did like 30M opening weekend vs 80+60 for Black Widow. Anyone expecting BW to become some billion dollar movie is pretty delusional, it was the comic movie no one really wanted. Wanda, Vision, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye went to tv shows because it's where they fit, Black Widow would have been better as 6 or 8 episode series too but contracts I guess
 

Tengis

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Im going to feel personally attacked if they screw up the Matrix 4. The first Matrix was phenomenal and the sequels were just decent... this one needs to be mind blowing.
 

Jagger100

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He kept the John Wick look for the Matrix film, so you know the relative state of that franchise.
 

Tengis

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He kept the John Wick look for the Matrix film, so you know the relative state of that franchise.
I was kind of disappointed to see that. Part of me thinks they did it because an entire generation of kids know Keanu as that guy.
 

pendragon1

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I was kind of disappointed to see that. Part of me thinks they did it because an entire generation of kids know Keanu as that guy.
well, three different "gens" know him for thee different roles: ted, neo or john. he will always be ted to me.
 

Verge

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Johanson is suing Disney because her contract had her getting some money on the back end based on theater ticket sales, because they released it online at the same time the money they made from that she didn't get any part of. I also think her contract specifically said that the movie had to exclusively be in theaters otherwise they would have released it earlier but due to COVID theaters were largely not open. That said there is still the COVID effect when it comes to theater goers, so to say piracy is the sole cause of that is very shortsighted. That said, and this is really a IMHO thing, Black Widow was really a mediocre movie it very well could have been a generic action flick renamed Jaquelline Bourne, and other than the character really had very weak ties to the whole Marvel universe, it wasn't an origin story, it really didn't progress the character at all, if anything it only gave is some future storylines with her sister and only due to the end credit scene.

As for WW1984 that movie was absolutely fucking horrible, like it was beyond bad. That and COVID is the reason why it did less than 30 million the opening weekend. Don't discount the word of mouth keeping people away, plus again Dec 2020 things weren't exactly open everywhere. Piracy probably had very little to do with that movie being a huge flop.
Once again, i never said piracy was the sole cause. But i do agree with you, both of those movies were garbage, like pretty much everything else released this year and like i expect Matrix 4 to be. If this was going to be a hit, they would delay it to next year and not stream it first day. They've done focus screenings, they've modelled audience reaction. They wouldn't leave a billion sitting on the table.
 

Lakados

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Movie’s gonna do fine, wondering if there is a tie in between the two movies? Like he dreams he’s John Wick when he’s asleep in the Matrix? Or John Wick is a simulation so they can study Neo in different worlds?
 

pendragon1

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Movie’s gonna do fine, wondering if there is a tie in between the two movies? Like he dreams he’s John Wick when he’s asleep in the Matrix? Or John Wick is a simulation so they can study Neo in different worlds?
the "neo/wick is an "antivirus"" theory works pretty well. machines plugged neo back in, give him a new id as wick and sent him to take out exiles.
 

LukeTbk

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Really? Everything I've read says that's the big sticking point is that VOD sales take away from box office,
VOD and the world piracy would logically take away from a movie box office performance, that why Disney did that, but VOD sales are a very American affair and will not compensate for a lot of the lost in WW business at the box office. Your sentence does not go in opposition of what you are quoting at all.
What was the expectation? Free guy did like 30M opening weekend vs 80+60 for Black Widow. Anyone expecting BW to become some billion dollar movie is pretty delusional, it was the comic movie no one really wanted. Wanda, Vision, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye went to tv shows because it's where they fit, Black Widow would have been better as 6 or 8 episode series too but contracts I guess
The combination of Piracy-VOD-very short theatrical window will affect legs more than OW, 2 year's ago you do expect Free Guy to beat a 200M Jungle Cruise movie, it achieved to do something quite similar to what people would have expected it to do in 2019 (It is beating Pixel and other close comparable).


Shang-Chi
Sep 10-121$35,786,000-52.5%4,300-$8,322$145,601,14

vs
Black Widow
Jul 16-182$25,847,496-67.8%4,275+115$6,046$131,609,1672
 
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sfsuphysics

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The combination of Piracy-VOD-very short theatrical window will affect legs more than OW, 2 year's ago you do expect Free Guy to beat a 200M Jungle Cruise movie, it achieved to do something quite similar to what people would have expected it to do in 2019 (It is beating Pixel and other close comparable).
I dunno, the Free Guy looks like a fun movie that's based on a new original ideal, the Jungle Cruise is yet another Disney big budget movie that seems like Pirates of the Caribbean on a river with The Rock. Personally I think the pandemic stuff is doing way more for box office sales than piracy-VOD is doing, not saying VOD-Short theatrical window isn't doing anything but if you look at a movie like F9 it made like $160M the first "weekend" (5 days) world wide which broke pandemic records, F8 on the other hand made like 540M worldwide the first "weekend", and I don't even think Metallic would claim piracy affect sales that much.
 

LukeTbk

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window isn't doing anything but if you look at a movie like F9 it made like $160M the first "weekend" (5 days) world wide which broke pandemic records, F8 on the other hand made like 540M worldwide the first "weekend",
Number of market you open in change from release to release, Fast 9 did almost the same has the spin off, it did 57% of the last one despite the split in the franchise and the fatigue.

Jun 25, 2021F9: The Fast Saga$70,043,165$172,892,120$710,861,120
Aug 2, 2019Fast & Furious Presents: Ho…$200,000,000$60,038,950$173,956,935$760,381,706
Apr 14, 2017The Fate of the Furious$250,000,000$98,786,705$225,764,765$1,236,703,796
 

SvenBent

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It has been a long time the last millénial was a kid, a millenial is someone that was old enough to be aware of 9-11 when it happened 20 year's ago.

http://www.millennialmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Image-1-1_v2.png

They are 25 to 40 years old now.

Its funny to see how the millions generation grow older with more than a year per year. The keep getting close and close to my age.
In a few more years i will no longer be genX but a millennial suddenly.
10-15 years of difference is suddenly down to 3
 
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