JOHN WICK 4 AND MATRIX 4 THREAD (All Keanu)

s10010001 said:
going forward I'm going to pretend it was the only one made.
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Watched it last night after everyone went to bed, it wasn't really that good but it wasn't that bad either, it was an OK movie that I'm not going to stress over "losing 2.5 hours of my life" over but equally so I wouldn't have felt disappointed if this movie was never made. The first movie felt great, and the two sequels just felt like silly exposition to write some lore and bring a conclusion to the masses who can't be left with the concept that there was an ending that left what happened after as ambiguous for your imagination, this movie kind of feels the same way, there was an ending to #3 and what happened after is left ambiguous for you to imagine but here we go having more lore and more filling in. As such there really wasn't that high expectations, kind of like episodes 7,8,9 of the Star Wars franchise, didn't put them on a pedestal as how great a movie it was going to be, and as a result I wasn't disappointed in what I watched.

As to some of the comments here, mumble rapper? woke? pushing a liberal agenda? Good god people.
 
WorldExclusive said:
My main gripe was:

Neo kept stopping bullets as if that's all he knew how to do.....I mean could he just used the force move he used on Cyber Morpheus? Or went Kung Fu like he usually does?
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I assume you watched the movie but this statement makes it sound like you didn't or you very easily forgot.
Because when they're riding around on the motorcycle he use that force move all the time, sure it wasn't as bright and shiny as before but he literally stopped and crunched up a car moving at full speed, used his "force elbow" strike to crush another car and make everyone fly all over the place, and actually did that quite a few times during that sequence.

But to be honest this felt like lazy the way they did this, the fight sequences of prior movies were far superior, this was like "how can we make him look stronger rather than him kicking people and blocking swords with his fist, I know magical force fields he can project!" but it's one of those moves that should be used in the finale, but instead they used it up earlier at the training dojo, so later in the movie it seemed less impressive (and visually they made it that way too)

WorldExclusive said:
It was step up for him to look weak and for Trinity to look strong in the end as the unexpected One. It was like in the Star Wars movie when the woman became a Jedi with little training.
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Yeah I'm going to disagree with this 100% though, you really are reaching.
 
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There is only one Jones movie. Just gonna leave that there.

I was actually surprised but I really didn't see anything "woke" in it. I was highly highly expecting it. So that was nice. I'm interested in what people thought was "woke". In fact, if anything it called out the reality we live in. The only thing I can see people griping about was Trinity at the end, but IMO, it fit the story more than it fit some feminist virtue signaling so I though it was good. At least Trinity was a bad ass before all this, unlike jedi Rae

the cute animal robot things, every movie made now needs something like this so they can sell toys. fact.
 
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sfsuphysics said:
I assume you watched the movie but this statement makes it sound like you didn't or you very easily forgot.
Because when they're riding around on the motorcycle he use that force move all the time, sure it wasn't as bright and shiny as before but he literally stopped and crunched up a car moving at full speed, used his "force elbow" strike to crush another car and make everyone fly all over the place, and actually did that quite a few times during that sequence.

But to be honest this felt like lazy the way they did this, the fight sequences of prior movies were far superior, this was like "how can we make him look stronger rather than him kicking people and blocking swords with his fist, I know magical force fields he can project!" but it's one of those moves that should be used in the finale, but instead they used it up earlier at the training dojo, so later in the movie it seemed less impressive (and visually they made it that way too)


Yeah I'm going to disagree with this 100% though, you really are reaching with your disdain here.
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You can disagree, but your opinion doesn't move the needle. The verdict is in on this movie.
I dislike movies that weaken male roles to strengthen female roles. Kill Bill was amazing and it didn't have to castrate everyone.
 
WorldExclusive said:
You can disagree, but your opinion doesn't move the needle. The verdict is in on this movie.
I dislike movies that weaken male roles to strengthen female roles. Kill Bill was amazing and it didn't have to castrate everyone.
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And there in lies the rub, I'm not trying to move your needle. My disagreement was with your assessment that Neo is weakened.
 
sfsuphysics said:
And there in lies the rub, I'm not trying to move your needle. My disagreement was with your assessment that Neo is weakened.
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Perception is a crazy thing. In my view, Neo was damn near useless outside of his force shield ability. He was completely defensive, he never went on the offensive - though Trinity did. I walked away feeling Neo had been purposely neutered by bad writing to cash in on the trend of weakening men to make female leads stronger.
 
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WorldExclusive said:
I dislike movies that weaken male roles to strengthen female roles. Kill Bill was amazing and it didn't have to castrate everyone.
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It does a disservice to women, in my opinion. Kill Bill is a fine example of an original film written for, and starring, a strong female lead - and a badass series of films.
 
trasixes said:
Perception is a crazy thing. In my view, Neo was damn near useless outside of his force shield ability. He was completely defensive, he never went on the offensive - though Trinity did. I walked away feeling Neo had been purposely neutered by bad writing to cash in on the trend of weakening men to make female leads stronger.
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There is no longer The One. It is The Two now.

:ROFLMAO:
 
trasixes said:
I walked away feeling Neo had been purposely neutered by bad writing to cash in on the trend of weakening men to make female leads stronger.
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This wasn't about weakening the male to make the female stronger. This was simply The One shedding the body of Larry (Neo) and re-emerging as Lana (Trinity).

I believe the script for Matrix 5 has the humans lining up to be put into the energy pods in order to avoid having to watch Trinity's bad movies.
 
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Thunderdolt said:
This wasn't about weakneing the male to make the female stronger. This was simply The One shedding the body of Larry (Neo) and re-emerging as Lana (Trinity).

I believe the script for Matrix 5 has the humans lining up to be put into the energy pods in order to avoid having to watch Trinity's bad movies.
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I don't think there's any chance a 5th gets made w/ Neo or Trinity involved, unless it's a complete reboot. This literally proved to the studio audiences are no longer interested in their story.

Which is a shame, because I really did enjoy the Trilogy and games. They had to ruin it by taking a dump on the doormat on their way out.
 
My opinion, I generally agree with the negative reactions...

They over did the meta stuff without any cool pay off. Seemed they were trying to flip the script as it were, have Neo being passive/defensive as another angle to "solve" the Machine/human problem.

The setup was waaaaay too long and thus the story suffered. Read some comments that the meta stuff was a commentary on reality (aka WB wanting any sequel) and a change in the matrix to reflect on the change of the internet (aka social media).

I was honestly more interested in the Machines, the ones that worked with the humans, the civil war etc. Disappointed that wasn't explored more (could fit nicely if they wanted Neo to take a backseat as the "savior").

Smith imo was just off... Not smith at all, it's like they tried to modernize the character to fit the "social media". Think a new character similar to technical boy (or the social media godess) in American Gods would have fit that better.

Similar reaction to the star wars sequels, a glimpse of decent new concepts just very very poorly executed.

The final plot, save trinity was just sooo played out and boring. It should have been a mid act side plot...

I think where the first matrix really shined was it's perfect balance of action/cool with social commentary if you wish to notice it. Hard to repeat that perfect balance, this movie sorta seemed like they were trying to do that but failing.
 
I never really enjoyed the original as much as other people. Maybe that is why I was not as disappointed. I also watched it on my free HBO AT&T. It was far from a terrible movie.

I think some of you really need to consider investing in a home theater. $2-3.5K investment with todays tech will make you never want to go to theatre again.
 
dandirk said:
I was honestly more interested in the Machines, the ones that worked with the humans, the civil war etc.
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The Matrix: Civil War would have been a far better movie. Even with Neo only existing as weaponized code attacking power plants.
 
sfsuphysics said:
And there in lies the rub, I'm not trying to move your needle. My disagreement was with your assessment that Neo is weakened.
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Neo has the ability to fly
Neo has the ability to see the Matrix code in the Matrix
Neo has the ability to see the golden code of special programs
Neo has the ability to resurrect
Neo has the ability to alter code i.e. Agent Smith
Neo has the ability to speak directly with the machines in the machine world and in the Matrix
Neo has the ability to stop/kill machines using the force move in the machine world
Neo is the best at Kung Fu
Neo operates independently from others to keep them safe because they're not as powerful, Trinity goes with him and dies in M3
Neo saved the machines from Agent Smith alone in the Matrix

Now after all of that, Neo stopping bullets and pushing people/objects was him showing his full strength?

After Neo took the red pill, none of his abilities above was realized until Trinity saved him from falling. But Trinity didn't have to take any pill, she just became aware and was freed in a more spectacular fashion over Neo, making her the most important. The first Modal - The Train Station, Neo was powerless but he was aware. In the new modal he has powers but unaware. Inconsistent with the original storyline. Neo is too powerful to be unaware especially after taking the red pill. But in the Modal like the train station, no one has powers. So how does Neo and Trinity have powers in a place where Neo originally never had? The movie is inconsistent to push the storyline Lana wanted.
 
I watched 90 minutes or M4 and turned it off. I may get around to finishing it someday, not sure. I agree with those who were saying it did nothing to move the story forward. I kept asking myself why it was made. Also the flashbacks kept reminding me Morpheus and Agent Smith were recast, pulling me out of the movie continually. Pretty meh.
 
trasixes said:
Perception is a crazy thing. In my view, Neo was damn near useless outside of his force shield ability. He was completely defensive, he never went on the offensive - though Trinity did. I walked away feeling Neo had been purposely neutered by bad writing to cash in on the trend of weakening men to make female leads stronger.
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What exactly did Trinity do that was offensive? She drove a motorcycle really well?

WorldExclusive said:
Now after all of that, Neo stopping bullets and pushing people/objects was him showing his full strength?
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It's a 2+ hour movie, most of which was leading up to how he returned, wasn't exactly a whole lot of time to showcase much of any of it. At the end-end we saw Neo could still fly, and presumably all the other stuff which he really didn't do much really in M1 through M3 except the kung fu bit and flying, and yeah he wasn't at "full power" during that end sequence (whatever that really means, why didn't he just brush aside all of the Merovingian's goons in the prior movies? Because action sequences are more important to the audience than consistent logic with the scope of his powers maybe?) They probably because they didn't want to deus ex machina through it all but he was still vastly more powerful than Trinity, who's contribution was driving the motorcycle they were on, but sure the focal point was in fact on Trinity's growth at the very end and not watching how Neo became all powerful again. I'm not disagreeing with there being inconsistencies, but they didn't bug me as much as they apparently bugged you.
 
definitely had lot of room to improve, the end was like kinda abrupt. But it was alright enough not to be terrible. If you don't go in expected to be blown away like you were when you saw the first Matrix, then your expectations shouldn't be sky high, then you can get some measure of enjoyment out of this movie.

Neo's head was obviously not in the game really well, he probably needed more time. So we could use that to explain away his inability to use his best abilities optimally.

Honestly in Matrix 2 & 3 I thought all the kung fu stuff was like returning to the stone age as if Neo regressed. So not seeing too much at the end of the movie felt alright with me.

The spoofing of older movies and that early irony stuff was kinda funny, but not super funny either.
 
The movie was only watchable until Bugs showed up. Everything else was trash. Niobi's makeup was atrocious. Fake Morpheus just made my eyes hurt. I can't even remember any other character's name.

I watched the first Matrix movie in the theater and walked out amazed. I watched this one in the comfort of my own home and almost fell asleep. It was horrible.
 
sfsuphysics said:
What exactly did Trinity do that was offensive? She drove a motorcycle really well?
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I didn't say she did a lot, but she did beat the living crap out of her faux husband (I believe it was him anyway - my mind is actively trying to erase the stench from memory). Given that Neo had vastly more screen time, spending much of it taking a beating, I'd say it was a huge difference. Also, Neo did not fly, Trinity did. Either way, the movie is pure unadulterated 💩 .
 
trasixes said:
Also, Neo did not fly, Trinity did. Either way, the movie is pure unadulterated 💩 .
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They both fly off into the sunset together to close out the movie. You can tell Neo's flying this time because he isn't being pulled around like an infant. :LOL:
 
Sloginfizz said:
The movie was only watchable until Bugs showed up. Everything else was trash. Niobi's makeup was atrocious. Fake Morpheus just made my eyes hurt. I can't even remember any other character's name.

I watched the first Matrix movie in the theater and walked out amazed. I watched this one in the comfort of my own home and almost fell asleep. It was horrible.
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We just thought 20 years later there would be some new CGI and action we never seen before.
Maybe the Matrix franchise itself is stuck in the apex of civilization, the 20th century......

The story line can be seen on any cable tv network.
 
Pringle said:
They both fly off into the sunset together to close out the movie. You can tell Neo's flying this time because he isn't being pulled around like an infant. :LOL:
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Ah thank you, I didn't catch that. So...

...once the action/battle (and essentially the movie) was over, when it no longer really mattered to the plot (aside from men weak women strong), Neo could fly like Trinity.
 
The white knights over at Rotten Tomatoes are propping up the score, but it isn't helping.
 
trasixes said:
Ah thank you, I didn't catch that. So...

...once the action/battle (and essentially the movie) was over, when it no longer really mattered to the plot (aside from men weak women strong), Neo could fly like Trinity.
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keep in mind that he was downing blue pills like it was going out of style. takes time to wear off. they even said itd take time to get back to normal.
and 6/10 is probably about right.
 
Eshelmen said:
Awe come on, what was wrong with freeguy?
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It needed more Ryan Reynolds, and less everyone else lol

I was probably hasty in calling in a turd, if we're being honest it just wasn't my cup of tea. Though I do love a good Reynolds comedy in general.
 
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pendragon1 said:
keep in mind that he was downing blue pills like it was going out of style. takes time to wear off. they even said itd take time to get back to normal.
and 6/10 is probably about right.
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Right, but it was a conscious decision to write it that way. They specifically chose to write in an explanation for Neo appearing more like a number two than "The One".

But hey, that's just me. While I suspected it wouldn't be great, I hoped I'd be proven wrong. I am a big fan of the original trilogy, but this just didn't "feel" like a Matrix movie to me. I'd personally give it a 5 - 5.5 out of 10.
 
trasixes said:
Right, but it was a conscious decision to write it that way. They specifically chose to write in an explanation for Neo appearing more like a number two than "The One".

But hey, that's just me. While I suspected it wouldn't be great, I hoped I'd be proven wrong. I am a big fan of the original trilogy, but this just didn't "feel" like a Matrix movie to me. I'd personally give it a 5 - 5.5 out of 10.
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im thinking of the loops mentioned over and over so its like hes waking up again and not letting it bother me to much.
i was a huge fan of the first, 2+ 3 were meh and dont feel like the first either.
 
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