Trolling hard, but add at least a little sarcasm to ensure people understand you're not actually tripping on acid.😅
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JOHN WICK 4 AND MATRIX 4 THREAD (All Keanu)
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cybereality
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No, I'm actually tripping on acid, lol.
And I mean that figuratively. I am serious, but I don't do drugs. It's legal where I live, though, so whatever.
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Willy's Wonderland begs to differ.
cybereality
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Dayaks
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Expanse season 6 is releasing and Witcher season 2.
People seem pretty polarized on the Matrix 4. Personally if it was 30-60 minutes shorter it would have been good for me…
Yeah. This is dampening my desire to see it--I'll probably catch it as a cheap afternoon matinee if I bother to see it in theaters.
Can't recall if I mentioned it here or not, but people love to talk about how great was and how one of the things they hated about the sequel was the dialog. If you go back and watch the original, it was like that, too, just there wasn't as much of it.
It's hilarious, and Cage's dialog is pure gold. You'll want to bookmark this post so you can reply after you've watched the movie.
cybereality
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Yeah, definitely gonna have to check it out.
WorldExclusive
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Reminds me of Machete
cybereality
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OMG, I saw that in theaters. What an amazing thrill ride.
Tengis
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Just watched the new Matrix. I'm really not sure how to feel about it. I'm going to have to watch it again... the movie just doesn't "feel" right.
There are a few things in it that immediately made my Spidey sense go off. I would talk about them here but I don't want to spoil anything for anyone - as someone that, again, adored the Matrix, if I was in the room when they were going over the script I would have thrown a fit to remove about 5 consecutive lines from one of the characters.
There are a few things in it that immediately made my Spidey sense go off. I would talk about them here but I don't want to spoil anything for anyone - as someone that, again, adored the Matrix, if I was in the room when they were going over the script I would have thrown a fit to remove about 5 consecutive lines from one of the characters.
pendragon1
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use spoiler tags, thats what they are for. unless its soapboxy...
WorldExclusive
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My main gripe was:
Neo kept stopping bullets as if that's all he knew how to do.....I mean could he just used the force move he used on Cyber Morpheus? Or went Kung Fu like he usually does?
It was step up for him to look weak and for Trinity to look strong in the end as the unexpected One. It was like in the Star Wars movie when the woman became a Jedi with little training.
It was step up for him to look weak and for Trinity to look strong in the end as the unexpected One. It was like in the Star Wars movie when the woman became a Jedi with little training.
cybereality
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Yes, I won't post any spoilers, but I could see the comparison to The Force Awakens. Definitely a similar formula, in trying to remake the 1st movie of a trilogy.
I thought the new Star Wars was alright. Not great, but it was entertaining. Rouge One was amazing, though, and would have been a great film if Star Wars had never existed and it was the only movie.
Possibly, Wachowski could have gone for the Rouge One style, made a totally new movie (without Reeves or Moss) and just had Jessica Henwick as the main character. I think that could have worked.
I thought the new Star Wars was alright. Not great, but it was entertaining. Rouge One was amazing, though, and would have been a great film if Star Wars had never existed and it was the only movie.
Possibly, Wachowski could have gone for the Rouge One style, made a totally new movie (without Reeves or Moss) and just had Jessica Henwick as the main character. I think that could have worked.
Tengis
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Here is my Rotten Tomatoes review:
I'm not really sure how to rate this movie. I genuinely adore the first Matrix movie and have been bouncing in anticipation of the release of part four in the series. Overall, it was enjoyable... but did it capture the essence of the first movie? Unfortunately I have to say no to that question.
I'm going to start with the storyline and say that it just doesn't "feel" quite right. The first movie had a deep struggle where you find out that people are basically enslaved by the Matrix in order to be used as an energy source. The last remaining humans are trying to do the morally right thing by setting free everyone that is still stuck in the Matrix.
In Resurrections the story isn't even really that clear. At first they are trying to pull out Neo and then the story evolves into having to get out Trinity, but for what purpose? Everything is apparently "good" in the human world so there doesn't appear to to be a conflict that is trying to be solved. It's like I sat back in my chair waiting for some bomb to drop and it all becomes clear.
There are a few lines by NPH that make SO LITTLE SENSE that I had to type that in caps. If I had been in the room going over the script I would have put my career on the line to rewrite them and purge the original lines from this earth. I'll go back and watch on HBO but it was something to the effect of the process of bringing back Neo and Trinity costing an absurd amount of money - what money? The machine world functions on money? It reminds me of one of the previous Terminator movies where the machines had built a terminal for human interaction that was never explained - why the hell would they build a terminal for those they are destroying? Why would the machine world in the Matrix even have a use for money? Their entire existence revolves around the generation of energy from humans - while we are on that subject, the previous Trilogy showed us the sun clearly exists above the clouds - why haven't the machines just stuck a solar panel above the clouds? That's another completely separate argument.
The original Matrix more or less changed the lives of people growing up that are now between the current ages of 30-40, it blew our minds and spawned a change in all of our consumed media. Shadows of the Matrix lived within video games, movies, tv shows, cartoons, etc. I dont think this movie could've lived up to that... but it's also why I think many like me went in hoping that it would.
I'm going to start with the storyline and say that it just doesn't "feel" quite right. The first movie had a deep struggle where you find out that people are basically enslaved by the Matrix in order to be used as an energy source. The last remaining humans are trying to do the morally right thing by setting free everyone that is still stuck in the Matrix.
In Resurrections the story isn't even really that clear. At first they are trying to pull out Neo and then the story evolves into having to get out Trinity, but for what purpose? Everything is apparently "good" in the human world so there doesn't appear to to be a conflict that is trying to be solved. It's like I sat back in my chair waiting for some bomb to drop and it all becomes clear.
There are a few lines by NPH that make SO LITTLE SENSE that I had to type that in caps. If I had been in the room going over the script I would have put my career on the line to rewrite them and purge the original lines from this earth. I'll go back and watch on HBO but it was something to the effect of the process of bringing back Neo and Trinity costing an absurd amount of money - what money? The machine world functions on money? It reminds me of one of the previous Terminator movies where the machines had built a terminal for human interaction that was never explained - why the hell would they build a terminal for those they are destroying? Why would the machine world in the Matrix even have a use for money? Their entire existence revolves around the generation of energy from humans - while we are on that subject, the previous Trilogy showed us the sun clearly exists above the clouds - why haven't the machines just stuck a solar panel above the clouds? That's another completely separate argument.
The original Matrix more or less changed the lives of people growing up that are now between the current ages of 30-40, it blew our minds and spawned a change in all of our consumed media. Shadows of the Matrix lived within video games, movies, tv shows, cartoons, etc. I dont think this movie could've lived up to that... but it's also why I think many like me went in hoping that it would.
pendragon1
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except shes not "the one". their love unlocked "the one" and neos code rubbing off on her is what gives her power. its all explained. thats why smith is tied to it too.
WorldExclusive
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That doesn't make sense either because Neo saved her at the end of Matrix Reloaded by inserting his hand into Trinity, shedding his code as he did with Agent Smith in the original Matrix. She should have had that power/connection in Revolutions. I know the Neo needs Trinity for The One to exist, but it was set up for Neo to look unsure and weak. Again I think that scene was forced.
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pendragon1
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didnt realize it, hadnt built up, was focused on what neo was doing, idk. smith didnt have all his powers either. after the analyst fixed them is when he realized there was that bond/power thing. they had to be close but not together for their power to be harnessed.
Except, he didn't. Neo defeats Smith *after* Trinity dies in the trilogy. That's why it makes no fucking sense.
cybereality
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I loved the movie, but I think that is a fair review Tengis - I've posted some MASSIVE SPOILERS below, so DO NOT CLICK unless you have seen the film.
So here is a clip of Phillip K Dick claiming we live in the computer simulation (which is a pretty crazy idea considering this was 1977). If you watch the full interview, he even calls it The Matrix at one point. It's insane.
From my understanding, is that the machines have their own society. You see this in the Animatrix a bit. I think the scenes we see in the energy fields are not their whole world. They do have cities, and an economy, and money, and probably a whole other advanced society. But the movies don't really explain this, this is my conjecture based on the Animatrix and some hints in the new film.
Also, as we see in the 2nd and 3rd movies, there is a sort of government, like with the Architect and the various other programs, it is not like it is just a war. The machines have their own world, probably the entire earth is inhabited by machine cities, with AI and robots going about their normal lives. I agree they could have shown some of this, but I guess they want to paint the machines as villains.
Everything the Analyst says makes sense. I watched the movie 4 times (I'm crazy). The first time it was confusing, but watching it a second time it all made sense. He is basically the CEO of The Matrix, but not part of the machine government. So he controls the Matrix fully, but is basically a puppet for whoever owns the machine world, the supreme ruler or whatever (which is not explained).
Though he said he was there when Neo died, so it is implied that he is that crazy robot at the end of the 3rd movie, that Neo melds with. They even spliced in a cut of the old film, so I think that is him.
In terms of the story, it's a love story. It's a romantic-action film. They didn't explain it because Neo is busting out Trinity because he loves her. This is clear. What is not clear, is why the other humans would risk their life and the safety of their city to help him. They do seem to have found some stability, so doing what is basically a terrorist attack against the machines would be an act of war.
My understanding is that the General herself wants to keep IO safe, but all the people adore Neo and want to free people from the Matrix. So while the General does seem hesitant to help, I think all the other people DO want to still fight the Matrix and freeing Trinity and helping Neo will help them free more minds (which Bugs says a few times in the movie).
In terms of the solar panels, no it doesn't make sense, but it's a movie. They could install floating solar panels (cause clearly they have hover technology that can fly up that far). They could terraform the atmosphere, same way they destroyed the sky in the Animatrix, and bring it back to normal. Or they can use any other energy source, like nuclear energy, which has been proven by scientists to be more efficient than using human bodies. But that's not a fun movie.
While I still believe this movie is overall better in 2021 than the first, it clearly cannot have the same cultural impact as the original movie did in 1999. The whole idea of The Matrix was pretty original (if you discount the fact that they stole the story, that the name The Matrix was in William Gibson's books, or that Phillip K. Dick actually claimed we lived in The Matrix in a 1977 video lecture). So aside from all that, it was new.
But I think the new film is more relevant now, even if it doesn't have the big reveal or pioneering special effects that the first movie had. Nothing can live up to the first time you see The Matrix. But, assuming you've seen everything already, I think Matrix 4 does a great job at attempting to reclaim that glory.
Also, as we see in the 2nd and 3rd movies, there is a sort of government, like with the Architect and the various other programs, it is not like it is just a war. The machines have their own world, probably the entire earth is inhabited by machine cities, with AI and robots going about their normal lives. I agree they could have shown some of this, but I guess they want to paint the machines as villains.
Everything the Analyst says makes sense. I watched the movie 4 times (I'm crazy). The first time it was confusing, but watching it a second time it all made sense. He is basically the CEO of The Matrix, but not part of the machine government. So he controls the Matrix fully, but is basically a puppet for whoever owns the machine world, the supreme ruler or whatever (which is not explained).
Though he said he was there when Neo died, so it is implied that he is that crazy robot at the end of the 3rd movie, that Neo melds with. They even spliced in a cut of the old film, so I think that is him.
In terms of the story, it's a love story. It's a romantic-action film. They didn't explain it because Neo is busting out Trinity because he loves her. This is clear. What is not clear, is why the other humans would risk their life and the safety of their city to help him. They do seem to have found some stability, so doing what is basically a terrorist attack against the machines would be an act of war.
My understanding is that the General herself wants to keep IO safe, but all the people adore Neo and want to free people from the Matrix. So while the General does seem hesitant to help, I think all the other people DO want to still fight the Matrix and freeing Trinity and helping Neo will help them free more minds (which Bugs says a few times in the movie).
In terms of the solar panels, no it doesn't make sense, but it's a movie. They could install floating solar panels (cause clearly they have hover technology that can fly up that far). They could terraform the atmosphere, same way they destroyed the sky in the Animatrix, and bring it back to normal. Or they can use any other energy source, like nuclear energy, which has been proven by scientists to be more efficient than using human bodies. But that's not a fun movie.
While I still believe this movie is overall better in 2021 than the first, it clearly cannot have the same cultural impact as the original movie did in 1999. The whole idea of The Matrix was pretty original (if you discount the fact that they stole the story, that the name The Matrix was in William Gibson's books, or that Phillip K. Dick actually claimed we lived in The Matrix in a 1977 video lecture). So aside from all that, it was new.
But I think the new film is more relevant now, even if it doesn't have the big reveal or pioneering special effects that the first movie had. Nothing can live up to the first time you see The Matrix. But, assuming you've seen everything already, I think Matrix 4 does a great job at attempting to reclaim that glory.
So here is a clip of Phillip K Dick claiming we live in the computer simulation (which is a pretty crazy idea considering this was 1977). If you watch the full interview, he even calls it The Matrix at one point. It's insane.
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WorldExclusive
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The zIOn scene was the most interesting of the movie and should have started there. I really needed to see what lead up to that, then from there some kind of breakdown in the truce and them having to find Neo. When they find him with the help of Sati, they realize that Trinity is alive and is connected to Neo and both have to be freed to get Neo back. While they're working on that, Cyber Morpheus goes into the Matrix and realize they're being held in the Modal, give them the Red pill and.......... That plot makes more sense. Neo takes the Red pill but Trinity doesn't have to, she just becomes aware through the jack in or whatever, lol.
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WorldExclusive
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It's the stupid "modal" they created for the movie plot. Nothing makes sense because of it. Everyone was independent but now they all had to be together to resurrect. Weird.
cybereality
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I think the point is that they are equally The One. Both are necessary. And if you look back at the original movie, remember Trinity was the one that brought Neo back to life at the end. So she has always had the power.
WorldExclusive
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Depending on a person beliefs, we are spirit beings having a human experience. Both are real, it's not a simulation but just experiencing different dimensions simultaneously.
Shoganai
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It’s absolutely hilarious. Worth a watch.
WorldExclusive
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I can agree with you on her ability to resurrect. She loved Neo first. She resurrected Neo, died twice and came back. She's the undead, lol.
pendragon1
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like ive said, "thats the power of love"
cybereality
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Correct. The words are not important. You can call them spirits or programs or whatever, it is just a different way to try to understand something that is beyond us.
Thinking about it in terms of simulations and video games is only because that is the most advanced technology of our time. So it is the best model we have for understanding, but it is not the truth.
They touch on this in the documentary A Glitch in the Matrix, which came out earlier this year. An amazing movie and very thought provoking.
ElementDave
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🍄 Somebody took both the red and the blue pill, and discovered an interesting drug-drug interaction. Jefferson Airplane would be proud.
Keep chasing the White Rabbit! 🐇
cybereality
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Yeah, this is pretty much what actually happened to me. But the story is kind of long and personal, not gonna share on the forum.🍄 Somebody took both the red and the blue pill, and discovered an interesting drug-drug interaction. Jefferson Airplane would be proud.
Keep chasing the White Rabbit! 🐇
cybereality
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I guess I can share a little bit, leaving out the personal details. This is a true story, I'm not making this up.
Basically, I was convinced that agents were coming and about to break into my apartment (and, no, I was not on drugs).
I was so scared that I climbed out a window and tried to get down, but I fell about 50 feet onto hard concrete and got seriously injured, but I lived (somehow).
Woke up, locked in a mental hospital in a wheel-chair. And was stuck there for several months. Of course, my medication was a blue pill.
When I was discharged after a few months, I had to sign some paperwork, and the nurse says to me "Sign right here... Mr. Anderson". I'm not playing.
But whatever, that was a long time ago, and I take my medication. Things have been stable since then. Still not sure what actually happened, and I'm not sure I even want to remember.
Basically, I was convinced that agents were coming and about to break into my apartment (and, no, I was not on drugs).
I was so scared that I climbed out a window and tried to get down, but I fell about 50 feet onto hard concrete and got seriously injured, but I lived (somehow).
Woke up, locked in a mental hospital in a wheel-chair. And was stuck there for several months. Of course, my medication was a blue pill.
When I was discharged after a few months, I had to sign some paperwork, and the nurse says to me "Sign right here... Mr. Anderson". I'm not playing.
But whatever, that was a long time ago, and I take my medication. Things have been stable since then. Still not sure what actually happened, and I'm not sure I even want to remember.
🤣🤣🤣. Dude you need a chaperone or friend to supervise those trips, I can only imagine in what kind of trouble you could end up.
ElementDave
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I can certainly see why you'd have a strong personal connection to the Matrix films considering your experience — though I wouldn't have guessed it'd be a pleasant one. I don't want to dredge up (more) painful memories of the events, so I'll make this short and conclude by saying that I'm glad you not only survived, but managed a remarkable recovery from what could've easily been a fatal accident.
To end on a more pleasant note, I hope everyone is enjoying the holiday season. 🎅🎄
cybereality
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Thank you so much. It means a lot to me. Yeah, I was in a wheelchair for a bit and had to walk with a cane for years, but now I'm fully recovered. I can walk around like normal.
Thunderdolt
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Matrix 4 was little more than Lana telling her life story. Rebirth, feelings of not belonging, disparity between self-image and real image, identifying as something different than external presentation, being told you're something when you feel like you're something else, the troubles of aging, safe spaces, finding out that some foes are actually friends who were misunderstood - it's all there and almost even in chronological order. It's an interesting way for her to do an autobiography, but it has fuckall to do with The Matrix and should have been released under a different brand.
NPH was a terrible casting choice. His character could have been named How I Met Your Matrix. It's a shame that his acting has devolved to the point where he's unable to play any other character.
New Smith was also a terrible casting choice. He smoothly and charismatically delivered his lines like you'd expect in a romcom, and was completely devoid of the deep contempt and somewhat robotic delivery that we learned to expect from a frustrated machine which is resentful of being trapped in a cyber world.
New Morpheus was like an SNL parody of the actual Morpheus. Keenan Thompson would have been a better casting choice. Why was this character even there? Simply to try and justify reshooting the famous training scene?
I actually did like the self-referential story-within-a-story storytelling mechanism at first. It seemed like a great way to point out the ambiguity inherent in trying to figure out what's real, what's "real," and what is just a simulation hosted within a simulation. This could have been quite powerful - but it wasn't.
Overall, two thumbs down. The duration makes it not even worth streaming.
NPH was a terrible casting choice. His character could have been named How I Met Your Matrix. It's a shame that his acting has devolved to the point where he's unable to play any other character.
New Smith was also a terrible casting choice. He smoothly and charismatically delivered his lines like you'd expect in a romcom, and was completely devoid of the deep contempt and somewhat robotic delivery that we learned to expect from a frustrated machine which is resentful of being trapped in a cyber world.
New Morpheus was like an SNL parody of the actual Morpheus. Keenan Thompson would have been a better casting choice. Why was this character even there? Simply to try and justify reshooting the famous training scene?
I actually did like the self-referential story-within-a-story storytelling mechanism at first. It seemed like a great way to point out the ambiguity inherent in trying to figure out what's real, what's "real," and what is just a simulation hosted within a simulation. This could have been quite powerful - but it wasn't.
Overall, two thumbs down. The duration makes it not even worth streaming.
pendragon1
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its brand spankin new, would be a dick move not to. now next week...
t1337duder
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How do you figure? Sounds pretty disengious to me.
If you need to watch something from start to finish to decide if you like it or not, I'd say that's more of a you problem. I know what I like and you can only eyeroll so much before turning something off. For example, I don't need to watch every episode of Teletubbies to decide the show isn't for me. I'd really hope you wouldn't either...
cybereality
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Fair enough. I think if I just saw the intro sequence to Teletubbies I would have seen enough. So you win.
Also, my opinion has evolved after watching the movie 4 times and reading all the negative reviews (I did a lot of research).
I still think it's the best movie ever, but I fully understand the people that don't like it. Sorry about that.
cybereality
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You are correct. The movie is definitely about Lana's life. I think this is true for all artists, and even the original Matrix in some ways. But the new one much more so.
But I disagree with you that it has nothing to do with the Matrix. It is the Matrix. That is what it was always about, even if the creators didn't fully understand when they first made it.
NPH was amazing in the movie. I loved him. He was the bad guy, you wanted to hate him, but he wasn't a typical villain. They made it work. Also, I'm glad they didn't try to make him do martial arts or any super powers, that would have killed the movie for me.
Again, new Smith was great. I love Hugo Weaving, and he was great as the original Smith. But this is a new movie, I don't think Weaving could have fit in. I liked the new hip modern style. New Morpheus also looked great, he was smashing, I think Fishburne is too old and out of shape to do it.
Honestly, I would have preferred a total new cast. I think it would have been better without Reeves or Moss, had Jessica Henwick as the main character and did a new story (still within the Matrix but no old characters).
I liked the gamble they took personally, but the movie would have been better received as a brand new spin off of the Matrix with no relation at all to the original films.
But I disagree with you that it has nothing to do with the Matrix. It is the Matrix. That is what it was always about, even if the creators didn't fully understand when they first made it.
NPH was amazing in the movie. I loved him. He was the bad guy, you wanted to hate him, but he wasn't a typical villain. They made it work. Also, I'm glad they didn't try to make him do martial arts or any super powers, that would have killed the movie for me.
Again, new Smith was great. I love Hugo Weaving, and he was great as the original Smith. But this is a new movie, I don't think Weaving could have fit in. I liked the new hip modern style. New Morpheus also looked great, he was smashing, I think Fishburne is too old and out of shape to do it.
Honestly, I would have preferred a total new cast. I think it would have been better without Reeves or Moss, had Jessica Henwick as the main character and did a new story (still within the Matrix but no old characters).
I liked the gamble they took personally, but the movie would have been better received as a brand new spin off of the Matrix with no relation at all to the original films.