JF-AMD responded on Anand forum.

^^^ How funny (looking back) how he states that he hasn't seen any benches so far (leaked once) that would "accurately represent BD's performance"... Well it turned out to be that ALL leaked benches from that point on until launch, were accurate. But JF, being a marketing shill, did his job of steering a lot of people back to the kool-aid fountain... He needs a raise....:cool:
 
And the reason people are pissed is if you read that thread and several other he posted to like it you'll see lots of people quoting his "these benches aren't real" quotes saying "I'm buying a AM3+ MB right now!" or "I'm pre-ordering as soon as it's available!"

Those people got scammed, not marketed to, straight up lied to and scammed.

edit: I'm not saying he should have death threats or be cursed at or any of the other things that are happening, I will say he should just not ever bother coming back here or anywhere else, to me and I imagine many many others who participated in those threads he has absolutely zero credibility now. If he couldn't just shut the fuck up then, he should at least just shut the fuck up now.
 
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Only fools let themselves get scammed. So if JF really scammed anyone, then I bet everyone who did gets scammed all the fucking time.
 
sirmo said:
People are dicks. I am as disappointed in AMD and Bulldozer as much as the next guy, but I don't think any of this is JFs fault. If anything AMD needs more people like him.

Also taking stuff like this personal and sending personal emails of hate to someone is psychotic.
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No joke. Not sure why people thought he was lying, since he stopped saying 50% after the 33% was announced, and anyone who thought it was anything but ipc neutral didn't read any of the press announcements...
 
-Dragon- said:
And the reason people are pissed is if you read that thread and several other he posted to like it you'll see lots of people quoting his "these benches aren't real" quotes saying "I'm buying a AM3+ MB right now!" or "I'm pre-ordering as soon as it's available!"

Those people got scammed, not marketed to, straight up lied to and scammed.

edit: I'm not saying he should have death threats or be cursed at or any of the other things that are happening, I will say he should just not ever bother coming back here or anywhere else, to me and I imagine many many others who participated in those threads he has absolutely zero credibility now. If he couldn't just shut the fuck up then, he should at least just shut the fuck up now.
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If anything its a cheap lesson to not buy a product before its released. I stopped doing that after preordering every interesting looking mmo that promised the world(Lesson learned).
 
Marketing =/= Engineering

People should not blame JF for giving us the numbers Engineering gave to him. It's not like he was saying "I know for a fact that it will be X fast!" He said things like "It's looking to be around X fast!".

On the flip side, dealing with dicks and assholes is part of being in marketing, even for such a bland, nerdy company like AMD. It's like herpes for a pornstar: it comes with the job.
 
Faethon said:
I agree 100%.
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There is marketing and then there is lying and misinforming. JF may have lied, he certainly misinformed, and was often quite vocal about putting down any negative BD news here and on other forums.

I think its plenty fair to say he misinformed people and not unreasonable to think that he was lying. I have a very hard time believing that he didn't know how BD would perform months ago at a minimum.

Faethon said:
Either way, i know too people that had bought new motherboards for BD and such, but it's not really JF's fault, but their own that chose to gamble instead of waiting for the real thing to come out... I feel sorry for JF-AMD receiving hate-mail, he doesn't deserve that.
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Wow you sound like a shill. Blaming the victim is especially crass in this instance. JF deserves all the crap heaped upon him and then some.
 
mesyn191 said:
There is marketing and then there is lying and misinforming. JF may have lied, he certainly misinformed, and was often quite vocal about putting down any negative BD news here and on other forums.

I think its plenty fair to say he misinformed people and not unreasonable to think that he was lying. I have a very hard time believing that he didn't know how BD would perform months ago at a minimum.
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I can't know whether he intentionally misonformed while knowing the truth or whether he was on his turn misinformed from the engineering department, but i do accept that either way, many people had higher expectations based on his posts.

Wow you sound like a shill. Blaming the victim is especially crass in this instance. JF deserves all the crap heaped upon him and then some.
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I think people should be more careful when listening to what marketing people are saying. I 've been for years in fora with software developers for instance and everytime, when a dev or PR guy was posting, he was promicing more than what the final product would be. If i were 17 again, i would call that lying. But now that i am grown up, i know it's marketing... If someone paid money to get motherboard (and some did) because they believed JF-AMD, they are only victims of their naiveness. Maybe they should be grateful to JF-AMD actually, for teaching them a harmless life lesson: "No employee will ever badmouth pubblically his company while he still wants to retain his job there".

P.S: Marketing is always connected with lies and misinforming. Have you ever seen an antivirus advertisement that is saying that it won't catch all malware, that it's not the fastest, etc, etc, etc?
 
Faethon said:
I can't know whether he intentionally misonformed while knowing the truth or whether he was on his turn misinformed from the engineering department, but i do accept that either way, many people had higher expectations based on his posts.
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You're creating a conspiracy theory whole cloth out of nothing. The guy worked for the company and wasn't some low level flunkie. There is no way no how he didn't know how BD was going to perform.

Faethon said:
I 've been for years in fora with software developers for instance and everytime, when a dev or PR guy was posting, he was promicing more than what the final product would be. If i were 17 again, i would call that lying. But now that i am grown up, i know it's marketing..
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No you've simply gotten so used to them lying to you that you've come to believe that being lied to by a company is the new normal. That doesn't justify their BS, that just makes you their dupe.

Faethon said:
If someone paid money to get motherboard (and some did) because they believed JF-AMD, they are only victims of their naiveness. Maybe they should be grateful to JF-AMD actually
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Hahahahah you think they should thank him and AMD for screwing them over?

Stockholm Syndrome is something you seem to be suffering from to put it mildly.

Faethon said:
"No employee will ever badmouth pubblically his company while he still wants to retain his job there".
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That still doesn't excuse lying!! People expect some shading and a little spin sure, but not flat out fucking lying or misinformation.

Faethon said:
P.S: Marketing is always connected with lies and misinforming.
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That is why I use MSSE. At least its free and works reasonable well vs the competition. If I didn't have MSSE available I'd use another free AV. I'm not giving those liars my money. I sure won't make excuses for them when they lie to me or others either.

Lets all listen to what the late great Bill Hicks had to say on marketing and marketers.

Actually everyone should watch more Hicks, beats the crap out of responding and reading troll posts right?
 
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2-7-08-dell-amd.jpg


Haha
 
KazeoHin said:
Marketing =/= Engineering

People should not blame JF for giving us the numbers Engineering gave to him. It's not like he was saying "I know for a fact that it will be X fast!" He said things like "It's looking to be around X fast!".

On the flip side, dealing with dicks and assholes is part of being in marketing, even for such a bland, nerdy company like AMD. It's like herpes for a pornstar: it comes with the job.
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Blame the nameless engineers ?! My God, that's low.

AMD engineers always claimed BD wasn't designed to improve IPC.
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/754#3

"Designed for knee-of-the-curve IPC features and low gates/clock" http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/754#6

"Throughput advantages for multi-threaded workloads without
significant loss on serial single-threaded workload components"
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He's Director Of Product Marketing. Rest assured that he receives a daily report on how every product under him is doing. He didn't meet the engineers in the cafeteria and ask " So, will BD have better IPC than K10 ? ". He has access to detailled benchmarking sessios, comparisons with competitor CPUs, performance caveats, customer trials feedbacks, etc, etc.

He must know EVERYTHING about BD. He needs his homework done and when he's talking at HP and IBM and discussing servers lines and whatever he mustn't be caught off guard by any question or remark. He must SALE BD to customers, either OEMs or even direct, large ones ( banks, petrochemical, farmaceutics, etc ).

To come here and say " he was duped by engineers" is borderline stupid. The engineers give him FACTS and FIGURES and his role is to build a communication campaign based on that.

For him to pass on the blame on nameless AMD engineers is shamefull. For people to buy at face value what he says is plain retarded. He's selling you "donuts" and you're grabbing them with both hands..
 
All I can say is if he didn't have to mingle with pc users per his job title BUT did ANYWAYS? Bad move. Because he had nothing to gain.

All the smoke he has made I bet the higher ups talk to him about this. I really hope he will be okay though. But I bet he is done talking to us - either by choice or being told so.
 
I think that there are two very separate issues here:

1) Whether or not John lied outright is questionable. It's a case of what he knew and when he knew it so unless we're going to call in a presidential impeachment committee we'll never know.

2) Regardless of the outcome of #1, there are too many disgusting, foul mouthed, revolting, brat 13 year old masturbators on all tech forums who figure out some way to turn the most balanced and level headed conversations into a fuck you parade, and neither John nor any other stable sane adult on any forum deserves to put up with that kind of abuse.
 
This is how I see it: The norm on the most part with many peoples is the lack of work ethic to do what's just enough and call it a day - the trouble is the BD "enough" was way too short IMHO.

IMHO Personnel is the problem not the lesser funds for R & D than what Intel has.

Call me "old-fashioned" but that's what it seems to me.

Where's the accountability? AMD could have done better and NOT release BD till it was better - simple as that. They most likely a long while ago knew of BD shortcomings and could have notified the public. They have alienated many AMD fans by this BD release IMO.

At least JF said something and is a company puppet so this is not his doing or fault that BD is lacking.

:)
 
People like JF-AMD have come on forums before trying to defend a new product at their company, and it has never turned out well. How did he think it was going to end? He was wrong but in his position he should have known exactly what BD was, which made it even worse. Apparently he was not as smart as he thought he was or was kept in the dark by other departments...either way is not good!

That being said he didn't deserve all of that hate email...it's just a processor people!
 
One thing that exacerbates angry feelings is am3+ motherboards came out really early. So people starting building new systems from scratch and using their am3 cpu as a hold-over. Now, they have nowhere to go and are stuck with the board.
 
Reap what you sow. While I won't waste time with hate mail, the target audience of his posts isn't exactly known for being non-vocal. ;)
 
Falkentyne said:
Man, people over the internet.....including "grown" adults, are just a bunch of anal-rentative, ego mashing psychopaths, who need to have counseling in real life....

I mean FUCK you people. Who cares if a CPU doesn't perform as well as hoped? Go buy the competition. If you preorder something because you think it's hot shit, and it fails, it's YOUR fault.

You don't see me QQ'ing because I preordered Duke, do you?
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Well have to do some ego mashing now. I trust in leaked benchmarks over a marketing department. I bought a 2600k. Ego point score + 4000. I never posted and only lurked in AMD sections of forums because I knew I would get flamed by trolls that didn't know what they were talking about. Ego point score + 2000. I blame the victims because they are fanboys who don't know how to squint to see the road ahead and instead listened to the voice of a marketer. If you were silly enough to listen to JF-AMD it doesn't surprise me that you are silly enough to send F-bomb hate mail. Ego point score + 2000. I preordered Duke Forever and I loved it for how low my expectations were; didn't regret it for a moment. Ego point score +2000.

Sweet that's over 9000 Ego points.

I'd rather be a 13 y/o masturbaiter who knows what I'm talking about than a calm old man who doesn't have a clue. I mean, cumming without viagra/JF-AMD is the real way to do it amiright?
 
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mesyn191 said:
so blame the victim?! wtf
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What victims? The morons who bought a motherboard for a processor that wasn't out yet and of which there were no official reviews/benchmarks available? The 'victims' have nobody to blame but themselves for making a dumbass purchasing decision.

I don't think JF did anything wrong here. He gave us information that he believed to be true or that was in-line with AMD's corporate stance on the product. He was upfront on his role at AMD even if posting on his own time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that he wouldn't be painting the product in a bad light because that obviously isn't a good decision for his future employment at AMD. While I haven't read all of his posts, I don't think I ever saw him encourage people to buy Bulldozer compatible motherboard before the processors dropped (correct me if I'm wrong).

I really can't understand all the JF bashing on here and other forums. I guess it probably stems from the fact that so many people (at least vocal ones, and not pointing at anyone in particular) seem to latch onto every little statement and not think critically about the source or nature of the data. Anyone thinking logically about the JF's statements leading up to Bulldozer launch would have just filed them away as one more potential for the product. To get so wrapped up in it is a bit... odd.
 
sirmo said:
People are dicks. I am as disappointed in AMD and Bulldozer as much as the next guy, but I don't think any of this is JFs fault. If anything AMD needs more people like him.

Also taking stuff like this personal and sending personal emails of hate to someone is psychotic.
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It may not be his fault but he needs to shut the hell up. He isn't doing AMD any favors at this point.
 
I don't know why so many people think that bulldozer is a failed product. Don't get me wrong I had very high expectations for the new processor as well, but I think it is a good start. For me personally I beleive that my bar might have been set very high after intels latest offerings. Bulldozer has some good features, and definitely needs to improve on some key areas, but I think they are onto something. Also JF has never came across as a bad guy and has always shown respect on the threads i have read, and that he has participated in. I feel bad for the guy.
 
Fuck each and every single person who wrote him anything hateful in email.

I hate people so much some times.
 
mercenary223 said:
I don't know why so many people think that bulldozer is a failed product. Don't get me wrong I had very high expectations for the new processor as well, but I think it is a good start. For me personally I beleive that my bar might have been set very high after intels latest offerings. Bulldozer has some good features, and definitely needs to improve on some key areas, but I think they are onto something. Also JF has never came across as a bad guy and has always shown respect on the threads i have read, and that he has participated in. I feel bad for the guy.
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Its slower than the last generation and consumes more power. How exactly would you define failure?
 
stealthy123 said:
Fuck each and every single person who wrote him anything hateful in email.

I hate people so much some times.
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This is so true. Its just a POS processor, no reason to get hateful to a person. Now had I invested in AMD I would be pissed but JF-AMD is just a corporate tool, leave him alone.
 
there's also no reason to suck his dick either. So many so quick to defend him like he has been such a large contributor to the community and his loss will set processor discussion back 5 years....are you kidding me? All his posts were smug "I know but i'm not telling" variety, and the few bits of info he "leaked" were fabricated and ultimately false, and at the end all his posts were chiding like "you people don't know how to conduct yourselves on these forums, so let me use my status as a mid level AMD server PR guy and get the forum mods to sticky my FAQ post on why you're all morons"...

seriously, I know by nature some of you are just sycophantic, but really what do you hope to get out of it? Secret insight into the next AMD cpu? A gold star next to your forum name on the AMD forums?

/rant
 
his posts weren't smug, people were attacking him for no reason.

The guy was being nice, and a whole shit ton of people act like he was a dick for doing it, and then now call him "smug"

lol

the guy was perfectly nice to anyone, and I hope the enthusiast community gets something out of this:

No one from AMD will ever make the mistake of trying to connect with the enthusiast crowd like that again.

I for one think that is a shame, and I blame the shitheads that ruined it, not some AMD employee that put himself out there.
 
stealthy123 said:
his posts weren't smug, people were attacking him for no reason.

The guy was being nice, and a whole shit ton of people act like he was a dick for doing it, and then now call him "smug"

lol

the guy was perfectly nice to anyone, and I hope the enthusiast community gets something out of this:

No one from AMD will ever make the mistake of trying to connect with the enthusiast crowd like that again.

I for one think that is a shame, and I blame the shitheads that ruined it, not some AMD employee that put himself out there.
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if you can direct me to one contribution he made that related to his AMD employment, I'll retract my entire sentiment. There are tons of good guys on this and other forums that I have learned an immeasurable amount from over the years and am truly grateful. But when he identified himself as an AMD employee, there really are only two reasons for it. 1) to provide insider insight to the enthusiast community whose boards he was posting on...or 2) to serve his own ego. I'm a member of at least 4 forums that JF frequented, and can't recall a single one where any of his posts provided any additional value that was tied to his AMD employment...and thus never understood why he ever identified himself as an employee to begin with.

I'm a director of operations for a pretty relevant tech company, with a subset of their portfolio being products that some people on these forums use regularly. But again, I'm in ops, so don't really have a tremendous amount of technical knowledge to impart due to my employment, and any specific knowledge that I do have that is not readily available on the street I've signed confidentiality agreements on so that I cannot divulge. For that reason, I really feel no need to point out my specific company of employment, even if it would possible raise my epeen level a tad with a handful of people. I kind of feel the same about JF.

Also, when I'm in a work environment I need to put on my suit and tie face...and I really like letting my inner dick out on the forums once in a while. I wouldn't ever want my forum persona to be associated with my professional one.
 
How is it that director of product marketing was getting false info from engineers, and Donanimhaber, and OBR were getting correct info? if we are to believe what he is saying here, he is also asking us to believe that
 
conscript said:
I'm a director of operations for a pretty relevant tech company, with a subset of their portfolio being products that some people on these forums use regularly. But again, I'm in ops, so don't really have a tremendous amount of technical knowledge to impart due to my employment, and any specific knowledge that I do have that is not readily available on the street I've signed confidentiality agreements on so that I cannot divulge. For that reason, I really feel no need to point out my specific company of employment, even if it would possible raise my epeen level a tad with a handful of people. I kind of feel the same about JF.

Also, when I'm in a work environment I need to put on my suit and tie face...and I really like letting my inner dick out on the forums once in a while. I wouldn't ever want my forum persona to be associated with my professional one.
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You've risen pretty high for having such a poor ability to read the tone of people's posts on an internet forum.
 
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