Japan OLED Shows Off Upcoming Monitors

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by AlphaAtlas, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    According to a report from OLED-info.com, desktop OLED displays are coming relatively soon. Japan OLED, a joint venture between Sony, Panasonic and Japan Display Inc (which itself is a joint venture between Sony, Toshiba, and Hitachi), showed off some monitor-sized, printed OLED displays. Among them was a 21.6" 4K panel bound for the Asus ProArt PQ22UC, and a 21.6" 1920x1080 "eSports" monitor. They also showed off a 55" TV that isn't destined for production, but claim that is covers 100% of the DCI-P3 spectrum and has a 120hz refresh rate. Thanks to gan7114 for the tip.

    JOLED also demonstrates a larger 27" 4K panels (164 PPI) that they see being adopted in smart home applications. Finally JOLED demonstrated one of its flexible OLEDs wrapped around a column. This is a 21.6" 4K (204 PPI) AMOLED that has a curvature radius of 60 mm. In December 2017 JOLED started commercial low-volume production of its 21.6" 4K OLED panels, at the company's pilot 4.5-Gen line. JOLED has announced plans for a mass production 5.5-Gen line that will be established in Nomi City, Ishikawa Prefecture, by 2020.
     
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  2. Dudhunter

    Dudhunter n00b

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    Please, please make a 29-34 inch OLED gaming monitor with a decent refresh rate. I promise I will give you all of my money!

    9BEF60AD-2198-4DA4-997F-5C170514C517.gif
     
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  3. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    A JOLED rep told 4gamer that the 1080p gaming display will actually use a 4K panel running at FHD, as it can't hit 144hz at its native resolution. They also said that the 21.5" display's cost might be "comparable to the liquid crystal display for (high-end) gamers corresponding to local dimming." If they're talking about the monitor, and not the LCD panel itself, that's somewhere around $2k unless Asus and Acer suddenly drop the price of their 27" FALD monitors. Thanks to Necere for the tip.
     
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  4. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    Oh yes please!!! Since LG is simply unable to get the memo and build Oled TV's smaller than 55" we need to look at other options. Funny thing is, LG Oleds do accept 1080p 120hz in so I think they do realize there is some market for PC gamers that want to connect their computers into their TV's. I do not really understand what is the problem, why they cannot make smaller versions of their Oleds. :/
     
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  5. Dudhunter

    Dudhunter n00b

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    I have read it’s a mix of volume and color degradation issues, especially with white over a long period of time. Though you and I might pay $1,500 to $3000 for an OLED monitor, that puts us solidly into an enthusiast/prosumer group whose limited volume purchasing makes margins unappealing.
     
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  6. zkostik

    zkostik Gawd

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    I don't know man, at that price and given that burn in is still a big issue, not sure it's worth it over a good IPS FALD monitor. OLED will degrade much faster if you use HDR on it and it isn't really up to HDR spec anyway but at high brightness it can burn in easily. Overall prices need to come down a lot more before it's going to catch in. I'm also not sure why the prices are so high, is it just because they can with it being flagship technology?
     
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  7. Endgame

    Endgame Limp Gawd

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    Agreed! Honestly, I don't even need OLED if I could get 32" 4k 120hz HDR I'd buy it. I'm still using my 7 year old dell u3011 and keep thinking, surely they will have a good 32" coming out any time.
     
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  8. Dudhunter

    Dudhunter n00b

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    No prices are high because their manufacturing process is expensive and the yields are ~50%. You are absolutely right that the tech has room to grow and HDMI 2.xx will hopefully be a part of that.
     
  9. STrooperTK421

    STrooperTK421 Limp Gawd

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    Here is my take... Fuck OLED, bring on the quantum dots!

    OLED is pretty for about 2 days after you get it, but put some serious hours on that bitch, and they look like pure diarrhea soaked trash. Every single OLED smartphone that my wife has had (heavy user) ends up looking fucking AWFUL after not too long. I can only imagine how bad a gaming monitor looks after someone like one of us gets done with it. And for the price they are asking, no thanks.
     
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  10. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You might get a monitor that can accept an HDR signal, but you will not get proper blacks without OLED. You will also not get the potential response times, which are an order of magnitude faster than LCD panels.

    There's a reason we're excited/frustrated about OLED.
     
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  11. fadedlogic

    fadedlogic Limp Gawd

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    OLED in it's current state seems like it would be a poor choice for gaming given the risk of burn in from HUDs that most games feature.
     
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  12. fenixv

    fenixv Gawd

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    I haven't had this experience. My OLED TV and cellphone screens look awesome. Maybe you got bad panels?

    Anyway, hopefully JOLED production lights a fire under the consumer monitor industry. It's been stagnant for awhile and I need to upgrade my HP ZR30W.
     
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  13. CarbonVirus

    CarbonVirus [H]Lite

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    Please please please PLEASE use that flexible OLED tech to create a monitor I can roll up and bring to LANs easily; I would literally pay $3k for a 2K 24" rollup OLED monitor...
     
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  14. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Micro LED looks like it has more legs right now than real quantum dots. I think the latter has been deemed unviable in the consumer space and pretty much abandoned.
    It's so damn depressing reading that and still not seeing any gaming monitors larger than 27".
     
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  15. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wouldn't say it's a risk on a computer monitor as it's almost a given. There's too many static elements on a desktop computer, nevermind gaming HUDs. The Windows taskbar, browser elements, etc.. Far too much static images for long periods of time.

    And as someone else pointed out. OLEDs just degrade over time. The pixels simply start to give out at varying rates so eventually a heavy use OLED panel, like a computer monitor, will start looking real different really soon and eventually it'll just be unevenly lit and colored.
     
  16. JargonGR

    JargonGR Limp Gawd

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    It is depressing indeed and I was so sick of waiting that I took the plunge and bought a 32" 4K/60Hz Pro (AdobeRGB) monitor from BenQ. I was lucky panel wise and I am keeping it while I will have my eyes open for a second 32"-43" 4K monitor as soon as they come out with something worthy and at a price of around $1500 max.
     
  17. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I got tired of waiting and settled for a 32" Samsung VA LCD panel @ 2K resolution. It is a decent upgrade from the 27" HD monitor I had.
     
  18. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    To be released in 2019... 2020... 20XD
     
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  19. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Had four Samsung OLED phones for several years each and not a single issue regarding longevity, burn in or other type of degradation. Several hours of screen time daily.
     
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  20. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    Desktop use has a lot of static elements (dock, window launchers, icons, HUD) and this can lead to some serious burn in. Is the panel pixel layout and type known at this point to see how burn in might affect these screens?
     
  21. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the shout out, AlphaAtlas. :)

    The fact that they're pressing ahead with OLED panels destined for monitors (in more than an experimental sense, like the Dell UP3017Q was) may indicate that they feel burn-in risk isn't a concerning factor with these inkjet OLEDs. I've read around the web that Thermally Activated Delayed Fluorescence (TADF) could be the reason why, and it seems that the industry is actively committing R&D for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  22. mkk

    mkk [H]Lite

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    I might not have seen a ton of OLED displays but so far I haven't seen one with a pixel response that truly keeps up with 60 Hz. And they're going to make affordable gaming monitors? I have no hope for this at all.
     
  23. DF-1

    DF-1 2[H]4U

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    My b7a keeps up with 120hz. Idk what you're talking about
     
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  24. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    You cannot really compare smartphone Oled manufactured by Samsung (most likely) to LG Oled. Samsung Oled is the "real" oled where every single pixel is a different color. This comes with downsides like heavy suspectibility to burn-in and different lifetimes for each color, blue in particular is problematic. LG Oled on the other hand has only one color, white. Colors are created by filters in front of them. It does have some downsides on viewing angle color stability (not really a big issue, its still miles better than any IPS) but it has FAR better resistance to burn-in and there is no difference in lifetime between each pixel. Burn-in can still happen, but its not worse than Plasma TVs and people have been gaming with those without issues. For Rtings it took couple of weeks of abuse before first signs of permament burn-in started to settle in.

    Thing is, only LG has rights to this form of Oled display so thats why all eyes are on LG on bringing this tech to computer monitors.
     
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  25. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Pixel response time is virtually instantaneous on OLED. The issue is with the sample and hold sync technology that is still used. Most displays these days alleviate the issue with some form of black frame insertion or strobing to decrease the amount of time a single image is displayed on screen.

    https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
     
  26. gamerk2

    gamerk2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've been using an LG OLED for a while now (B6P) and haven't observed any color degradation problems, but I've been *very* careful with it (Black desktop background, for example).

    I did have one instance of burn in due to using HDR + an HDR desktop background, plus having an app minimized that disabled the windows screensaver (whoops). TV was on for maybe 5-6 hours, and the burn in was visible for maybe an hour or two before it faded.

    Point is, 18 months and not noticable degradation of color or any permanent burn in,

    I argue the reverse is true; gaming display manufactures refuse to go past 32" and force those of us who like larger displays to purchase TVs instead.

    Works both ways.
     
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  27. shansoft

    shansoft [H]ardness Supreme

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    You are not the only one.

    OLED on phone makes both me and others that I know with eye strain over a long duration reading. I have no such issue with regular IPS panel on phones.

    Not to mention the weird color shifting issue and burn in (which is guarantee if you run it as a computer monitor).

    MicroLED is the future, these company seriously need to reinvest money somewhere other than OLED, it just won't last.... or maybe its their intention....
     
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  28. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    Everything that isn't OLED is trash to me now.

    Local dimming is a joke. Its like a geriatric trying to catch a greased pig.
     
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  29. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    This can't be about the panel itself, can it? Doesn't line up with what I know of OLED
     
  30. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think LG struggles with quality control/yields. The initial batch of OLED panels for the Pixel2XL were highly inconsistent. I finally got one that didn't have a bad blue tint at angle, but it still has black crush (scrolling black/dark areas tend to look like they lag behind the rest of the image). If left on for long periods of time with contrasted objects, I get the burn-in ghosting (eventually fades away).

    Combine that with the static image issues (image retention) and many probably don't see a viable marketshare worth obtaining. They need quality, lasting, OLED panels.

    I do check the display models on showroom floors and they all still look excellent, but they're cycling a variety of mixed content all day so nothing really gets stuck on the screen.
     
  31. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    No, it's just the input. They said they'd support 4k if they find a controller that supports it (presumably HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.4)


    There is already a $1k TV that comes with a DP 1.4 port though...
     
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  32. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    I concur. I’ve owned an LG 55” C7 for over a year now, and haven’t had any signs of image retention, burn in, or color fade. And I’m one of “those” people who watch cable news with all the chyrons and tickers!


    Just curious — instead of a black background, why wouldn’t you just collect a gorgeous assortment of 4K wallpapers and set them to cycle every 5 minutes? Hide the task bar, and get ride of any desktop icons/folders. It’s just like having a screen saver. That’s what I do for my home office desktop, and I don’t use an OLED. :)
     
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  33. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks. Those are wasted panels. Not worth it
     
  34. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    My B7 will get temporary burn in with Plex, which is most of what I use it for- but this is only visible on a black background. It disappears when media is played.

    Right now, it seems that OLED sits in with the LCD panels with their limitations. I wonder if we'll see these overcome in the next year or two.

    Would like to see 4k120 10-bit 4:4:4 become a thing before The Great 8K Marketing Push gets underway...
     
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  35. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    Thank you.

    I've been using a B7A as my computer monitor for over a year now with no signs of burn-in, and it still looks far more gorgeous than any other display I've used. Yet I keep reading about how they are unusable as PC monitors and will zomg look like trash after a couple of days. Guess I got one of the only good ones...off to buy some lottery tickets now.
     
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  36. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    OLED has the fastest pixel response of any panel since CRT. The problem is its too fast.

    Id take a minor chance of image burn over 24/7 IPS glow any day.
     
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  37. Surly

    Surly Limp Gawd

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    Mini/Micro LED is the real future for monitors imo. 97% of the performance of OLED (although you cant make foldable/bendable screens lol :rolleyes:) with none of the disadvantages.
     
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  38. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    You do realise LCD can burn in also yeah? Yes it will have other disadvantages like backlight PWM flicker and the same LCD pixel response times which OLED is far superior at.

    There is no substitute for a display that can turn its pixels on and off and emit light directly without sub layers.
     
  39. Archmage

    Archmage 2[H]4U

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    Micro LED should offer fast response times, and it has no backlight. It should also be able to get brighter than OLED (HDR), and offer better power efficiency. Time will tell... but I agree that it looks promising.
     
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