ITT:VidCard Buying Decisions

Originally posted by jacheatamobits
i would like to compliment kickAssCop on doing an eccelent job keeping this post going, and updated...

sweet:D
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ha! yeah it's been a year.. and thanx!

p.s. time flies fast..
 
I duno if this was asked or not, but with the DX8/DX9 listed for each card, does that mean its optimized best for it?

Ex. My Ti4200. (DX8)

So should I not use DX9? Will it just be better with 8? But with the games that utilize DX9 now, won't I have to goto 9 to use them properly?

Thanks for clarifying. I'm noob with gfx cards since I've always had onboard or crappy pci, but now I got my new rig :)
 
You have a DX 8 card, which means it will run on your computer w/ DirectX 8 effects only even if you have DX9b installed on your computer. Reason being that it does not have the instructions implemented in hardware to make use of DX9 features.

So even if you install DX 9 on your computer the card will still be working w/ DX 8 instructions. I hope this clarifies the issue. If you are looking to see some nifty DX 9 effects you will have to purchase a DX 9 part!

This ofcourse implies that all DirectX software is backward compatible with hardware and ensures that the hardware runs properly in things that it can do.
 
Yeah I get it now.
Mmy problem was just that I couldn't run a DX9 game I tried when I had 8.1 on so I put 9.0a and its fine.
 
Originally posted by nitefallz
Is there a huge difference in 128 meg versions of the 9800 versus the 256 megs?
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not much except at very high resolutions (1600*1200) w/ AA and AF cranked up.. but the 256 meg cards are ofcourse more future proof since doom 3, far cry and half life 2 might use a lot of textures for which the additional memory will give the card a boost.. all in all its a decision I wasn't able to make too.. did not go for a 256 mb card coz price difference of 100 bucks does not justify the gains in performance!
 
Hello.This seems to be the forum with the most informed people (judging by the different threads I've read so far), and following the first post in this thread I'm putting my question here and hope that you all can help me. (I'll try and keep this short)

I'm going to be purchasing a new computer within a couple of months and since this is my first PC purchase I'm doing as much research and learning (about things I didn't know) as I possibly can to make the best decsion possible. This brings me to my first question: video card=which one?

From what I've seen it seems that Intel+Nvidia= THE system you want to have and the best. And that AMD+ATI= the second best. Of course, I'm more than likely wrong, but I have decided to buy and Intel based system nonetheless. Now I get to video cards. I didn't know jacksquat about video cards before, and now I know a little more. I keep seeing nvidia's name everywhere! It seems like games all have that "the way it's meant to be played" thingy plastered all over them.
I'm planning on having a 256mb video card installed in the system.
I recently have read some articles on both the 5950Ultra and the 9800XT and I just finished reading Hardocp's article on both.
The MAIN game I am wanting to get is UT2k4. I have the seen the different pic comparisons of both cards in teh article here. I am truly dissapointed in the results that 5950 looks like it gives. BUT, why does Epic have the nvidia logo on the game and make you think that it is optimized for an nvidia card? I am more confused than ever now. I was planning on getting the 5950, but now I am not so sure.

What I want to know is: are these limitations of the card itself, or is it the driver? if it is the driver does that mean that it is "safe" to buy a 5950 and expect better results as drivers are released? I also read that article about Valve's comment on the nvida vs ati on HL2. I also read somewhere that th 5900 and 5950 are not "truly" DX9 capable....

Help!!! the more I research and try to figure this stuff out, the more it gets confusing!!
Here are some other games I was planning on getting(FYI):
NWN, Morrowind, UT2k4, UT, HL2, Doom3, HALO, Everquest2, Dungeon Siege2.
Just so you know.

I'll be posting any more questions on other stuff of the system in their appropriate spots on this forum..I'm going to be getting an Alienware system.


Thanks in advance for your help!

-=JAJ=-
 
First off an Alienware system is horribly overpriced. You'd be much better off getting it from somewehre like Ibuypower.com or falconwest.com

AMD+ATI is not a second rate computer at all. People are fan boys and they'll tell you differently but from a completely unbiased perspective Neither of the 4 companies are second rate.

A 256mb videocard isn't going to help you out that much right now and you'll only be paying premium for it.

I've not done much research on the 5950, I've just gone with what performs and gotten a 9800 pro. I have got to say that it's one of the best videocard purchases I've made in a while.

Also, "THE WAY ITS MEANT TO BE PLAYED!" Is nothing other than marketing bullshit hype. Tell me how that label can stand true when a competetor does a better job of playing a game?

Well I haven't hit all of your questions but I have hit what I know. Do some more research. You've got a long way to go before you should commit to a system.
 
Originally posted by BlackDragon323
Hello.This seems to be the forum with the most informed people (judging by the different threads I've read so far), and following the first post in this thread I'm putting my question here and hope that you all can help me. (I'll try and keep this short)

Hello!

I'm going to be purchasing a new computer within a couple of months and since this is my first PC purchase I'm doing as much research and learning (about things I didn't know) as I possibly can to make the best decsion possible. This brings me to my first question: video card=which one?

Depends on what kindof budget you have for the computer. This list is here to tell you what to pick for your computer. I would suggest a 9800 Pro 128 MB or 9800XT if you want to go the whole nine yards. Also new cards are going to come out in a month so video card market is about to get an overhaul pretty soon. I cannot recommend you anything for the future unless we are in the future, if you know what I am saying.

From what I've seen it seems that Intel+Nvidia= THE system you want to have and the best. And that AMD+ATI= the second best. Of course, I'm more than likely wrong, but I have decided to buy and Intel based system nonetheless. Now I get to video cards. I didn't know jacksquat about video cards before, and now I know a little more. I keep seeing nvidia's name everywhere! It seems like games all have that "the way it's meant to be played" thingy plastered all over them.
I'm planning on having a 256mb video card installed in the system.
I recently have read some articles on both the 5950Ultra and the 9800XT and I just finished reading Hardocp's article on both.
The MAIN game I am wanting to get is UT2k4. I have the seen the different pic comparisons of both cards in teh article here. I am truly dissapointed in the results that 5950 looks like it gives. BUT, why does Epic have the nvidia logo on the game and make you think that it is optimized for an nvidia card? I am more confused than ever now. I was planning on getting the 5950, but now I am not so sure.

FX 5950 Ultra performs worse than a 9800XT period. All reviews benching the newer DX 9 games prove it. Also you have got it all wrong, nVidia + AMD = good system; Intel + ATi = greatest system ever built since the birth of man. Well no actually, there is no such thing as a better combo system. Both companies cards perform as well on either AMD or Intel depending on the configuration of a particular PC in general. You cannot generalize it so bluntly. As for UT2k4 it runs and looks better on an ATi card but this is my subjective opinion. Everyone will tell you different

What I want to know is: are these limitations of the card itself, or is it the driver? if it is the driver does that mean that it is "safe" to buy a 5950 and expect better results as drivers are released? I also read that article about Valve's comment on the nvida vs ati on HL2. I also read somewhere that th 5900 and 5950 are not "truly" DX9 capable....

nVidia FX design is limited in itself since it can do only 16 FPP or 32 FPP whereas, an ATi card only does 24 FPP (which is the default DX 9 standard). FP 32 bit is slow as shite on an FX series cards so it sort of interpolates b/w FP 16 and FP 32 bit if 32 bit is not forced by game. Also as proven in various places over the net ATi has superior IQ and better Pixel and Vertex Shader performance. Overall I would recommend an ATi card for NOW, but in about a month when things change I can very well recommend you an nVidia card if NV 40 outperforms R420 (codenames of upcoming graphic chips from nVidia and ATi respectively.)

Help!!! the more I research and try to figure this stuff out, the more it gets confusing!!
Here are some other games I was planning on getting(FYI):
NWN, Morrowind, UT2k4, UT, HL2, Doom3, HALO, Everquest2, Dungeon Siege2.
Just so you know.

I cannot recommend you a card based on upcoming games. But for NWN nVidia performs better, for Morrowind ATi performs almost at par w/ nVidia, UT2k4 Demo ATi performs better, UT ATi performs better, Halo ATi performs better. And various other games that I have playtested have ATi get better IQ and better performance.

I'll be posting any more questions on other stuff of the system in their appropriate spots on this forum..I'm going to be getting an Alienware system.

Thanks in advance for your help!

You are welcome.

-=JAJ=-
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Thanks for the great advice, I'll keep, that in mind.
:)

Well, I'm planning on spending asmuch money as I can, since this is going to be my "big purchase". I am going to defintely get a 256 card so it'll last for a while.
The only reason I mentioned the "Intel+Nvidia= THE system you want to have and the best. And that AMD+ATI= the second best statement was because that was the impression I was getting from reading peoples posts on stuff that i had been looking into...I wasn't saying that that statement was true or that that's how *I* feel. I'm just a PC noob trying to get as much knowledge as I can before I do this. FYI: I'm a "reverse switcher"...I've been using macs all my life and I'm buying my first PC.
:D

one other question: I've also noticed a lot of games using the nvidia logo on their box. Does this mean that that game was made to work better with an nvidia card? or that that game performs optimily(sp?) with an nvidia card? Like FF 11 and UT2k3 for example.

As far as the Alienware is concerend, I just really like it (although I still wonder if I'm mostly paying for the case!). I have already looked into Falcon NW and ABS and I took a look at that iBuypower site. the ibuypower looks pretty good.
Building is out of the question this time: this is my first PC and I just don't have enough tech knowledge to feel confident in building one. I think maybe the 2nd one I get I will try to, but not this time.
I know Alienware is a bit pricey, but I've read a lot of articles saying that, despite the price, they're well built, good parts and good service..which is important for me right now. I decided long ago no Dell or gateway,or best buy stuff. I need something upgradeable and someone said that Dells aren't very good for that. Besides, if I'm going to spend this kind of money (2500-3500) this time around, I want something kinda flashy! :D (is that so wrong?)

Well, again, thanks and I'll keep investegating.

-=JAJ=-

PS- see, that's what bothers/worries me: the fact that all the games I'm interested in, one card performs better than the other!! I can't just pop out one card and switch it with the other just to play a different game(or at least I don't want to!)...suggestions?
I'm starting to lean towards 9800XT at this point....hmm.....
 
Whatever gfx or cpu you choose you will be overwelmed regardless with quality in your games. You may want the "best" stuff to say you have the best hardware out there, but personaly myself, when people in my Cisco classes dish out $2.5 grand for some pre-built rig and drool over alienware stuff, it does the opposite of impress me.

topslop1 is right about the 256mb card. All its saying, is that you have money to waste. You should research more about having 256mb over 128, since you seem to "need" it.

Since you do want it pre-built, you should check out other places as mentioned such as fnw or voodoopc. But its hard to understand your need for the best gear when you are a pc noob as you said. Its fairly easy to put computers togethor, and you should learn how to do this before dishing out for this rig. Maby if you have this money, you could setup another system first before you get this main top of the line computer, if you still decide its what you need...

good luck, and do some more research ;)
 
Originally posted by BlackDragon323
Thanks for the great advice, I'll keep, that in mind.
:)

No Problem. I just wanna help

Well, I'm planning on spending asmuch money as I can, since this is going to be my "big purchase". I am going to defintely get a 256 card so it'll last for a while.
The only reason I mentioned the "Intel+Nvidia= THE system you want to have and the best. And that AMD+ATI= the second best statement was because that was the impression I was getting from reading peoples posts on stuff that i had been looking into...I wasn't saying that that statement was true or that that's how *I* feel. I'm just a PC noob trying to get as much knowledge as I can before I do this. FYI: I'm a "reverse switcher"...I've been using macs all my life and I'm buying my first PC.
:D

I see you have the money to spend. I suggest if you are going to wait for a month that you hold out on the video card purchase since new cards come out in April. Then we will see who is king and you can grab the l337 card :p

one other question: I've also noticed a lot of games using the nvidia logo on their box. Does this mean that that game was made to work better with an nvidia card? or that that game performs optimily(sp?) with an nvidia card? Like FF 11 and UT2k3 for example.

Sorry I missed this before but "TWIMTBP" thing is all crap. Most games with that logo perform better on ATi cards w/ better image quality. So forget about this logo and never speak of it again. ha!

As far as the Alienware is concerend, I just really like it (although I still wonder if I'm mostly paying for the case!). I have already looked into Falcon NW and ABS and I took a look at that iBuypower site. the ibuypower looks pretty good.
Building is out of the question this time: this is my first PC and I just don't have enough tech knowledge to feel confident in building one. I think maybe the 2nd one I get I will try to, but not this time.

abspc.com makes good rigs. but always your best bet is to find a friend that is relatively PC Pro and get down and making a rig yourself. Nothing beats that.

I know Alienware is a bit pricey, but I've read a lot of articles saying that, despite the price, they're well built, good parts and good service..which is important for me right now. I decided long ago no Dell or gateway,or best buy stuff. I need something upgradeable and someone said that Dells aren't very good for that. Besides, if I'm going to spend this kind of money (2500-3500) this time around, I want something kinda flashy! :D (is that so wrong?)

Dell, Gateway and the likes are pure shit. Forget about them. Alienware uses Intel motherboards now so you cannot overclock jack on them. Which renders the whole spending of 2.5 grand pretty useless.. secondly, you can save anywhere from 500-1000 dollars by building your own pc that will outperform any alienware, dell, gateway or other crap in a heartbeat. So I suggest you start learning and shell the 500 on some other things you may need!

Well, again, thanks and I'll keep investegating.

Yeah you do that.

-=JAJ=-

PS- see, that's what bothers/worries me: the fact that all the games I'm interested in, one card performs better than the other!! I can't just pop out one card and switch it with the other just to play a different game(or at least I don't want to!)...suggestions?
I'm starting to lean towards 9800XT at this point....hmm.....

If you are going to shell your dough in a month. I suggest you wait and see how all the new tech performs (both for graphic cards and processors and motherboards) and then make your decisions, because much is about to change soon.
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p.s. Please keep the thread on topic. Alienware, Dell, Gateway etc discussions can be had in the general hardware, strictly intel, strictly amd forums. I have spent a year keeping this thread on topic. I don't want it to go off topic now. :D
 
Okay I'm in a really bad position right now. I have a 1800+ Athlon XP and a Ti4600.

BF:Vietnam and UT2004 are out right now. Plus, there is a large handful of games coming out very soon that I want like Far Cry, Colin McRae 04, etc.

I've heard rumors that the new cards are coming out in April. How confirmed is this? In the past what was due out just "three weeks down the road" has sometimes turned into 6 months down the road.

When the new cards come out I'm not going to be spending $400+ on them anyway. The max I can see spending would be about $200.

So, do I wait and see what happens or take a chance on a cheaper card that will get me over the Ti4600 hump?

If I get a card now what is the best bang for the buck and what does nVIDIA have to compete with it since I know your answer is going to have the letters A, T, and I in it.

Would a CPU jump be the best bet now to get me over the hump till I see what works out with the video cards? My friends and I play at LANs and the only difference I can see is that they load a few seconds faster than me - and I suppose they can handle a wilder battle better than I can.

My MAIN concern is how BF:Vietnam and UT2004 are going to look and run on my system.
 
I suggest you upgrade your cpu as UT2004 can run pretty well on a ti 4600 w/ medium details and no AA. BFV does seem to have problems on even the highest of cards due to lag. You need atleast a gig of ram and a powerhouse to play that one.

I suggest you up the cpu + ram and then see what you can cook up w/ the ti 4600. A Radeon 9800 Pro for 200 bucks is the best deal right now IMO. But you are in dire need of a cpu upgrade.
 
Not sure if anyone has already posted this or not, but from what i have read any and all new NVidia cards are having a terrible time with new DX9 games. On top of that there were reports of NVidia tweeking cards to work better than they really should with programs such as Mad Onion's Benchmark. Anyway, this is old news and I've been out of the hardware loop for a couple months.
 
For those of you who dont know weather to get a 9600xt or a 5700U here is something to help you decide

Quoted from the [H]OCP review

The Radeon 9600XT beats the 5700Ultra in almost every game, but the tables turn when you factor in the 5900XT. The 5900XT is able to match or beat the 9600XT in more than a few games by allowing you to run at higher quality settings than the 9600XT and still perform the same or better though there are some games where the 9600XT is the winner.

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so unless you want a 5900XT don't bother spending money on a 5700U, get a 5900XT if YOU really want an NV card :p and if your smart enough to want prettier looking DX9 games then get the 9600XT or better :) now for a bit more you can snag a 9800pro ;)
 
Originally posted by Digital Viper-X-
For those of you who dont know weather to get a 9600xt or a 5700U here is something to help you decide

Quoted from the [H]OCP review

The Radeon 9600XT beats the 5700Ultra in almost every game, but the tables turn when you factor in the 5900XT. The 5900XT is able to match or beat the 9600XT in more than a few games by allowing you to run at higher quality settings than the 9600XT and still perform the same or better though there are some games where the 9600XT is the winner.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so unless you want a 5900XT don't bother spending money on a 5700U, get a 5900XT if YOU really want an NV card :p and if your smart enough to want prettier looking DX9 games then get the 9600XT or better :) now for a bit more you can snag a 9800pro ;)
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I actually happen to agree with this because I'm currently in the market for upgrading my 9600 Pro (Powercolor brand) to either a 9600XT or a 5900XT (also considering a 9800 Pro). I've been reading various reviews out there on the 'net from several sites (Including the [H] of course) and I've pretty much decided on a 9600XT because of two reasons:

1. I don't consider myself along the lines of a "Hardcore" gamer who runs everything at max detail. I actually like a balance between detail and playability when I play.

2. I understand that not everyone here has $500 to put down on a new video card. I plan to save from my job to acquire this and a 9600XT is feasible for me in the next 30 days.

My opinions are those of a "Frugal" gamer, wanting to play the newest available titles available, yet not break the wallet on video cards.

-- Michael
 
A 9800 Pro for 200 bucks is a great choice for hardcore, casual or any other sort of a gamer.

But a 9600XT for around 150 smacks isn't too shabby either!
 
Just ordered my sapphire 9800pro for $216, so i hope it lives up to the talk and my expectations...
 
Originally posted by stumpy
Just ordered my sapphire 9800pro for $216, so i hope it lives up to the talk and my expectations...
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sapphire 9800pros are clunky and low quality from what i read. the best 9800pro to get is an ati.
 
@KickAssCop I see you put a note in the first post about the 9800 SE but did not include it in the ranking list.... would be helpful to know where its at in the list at its stock settings (for worst case senarios when the softmod doesn't work)

---

I'm looking for recommendations based on price & longevity... Price being the prime concern as I'm upgrading 2 computers and the price must be approved by the 'boss' (wife). $100 - 130/card is what I'm expecting to pay ... anything much above that and I'm gonna hafta do some real heavy duty persuading.

I'm only considering ATI's chipset offerings for various reasons. My recent scowering of New Egg gives me these cards for consideration.

9600 256mb $99 (128 bit)
9600 pro 128mb $130 (128 bit)
9800 se 128mb $135 (128 bit)
9600 xt 128mb $155 (128 bit)
9800 128mb $175 (256 bit)

Any recommendations, thoughts/points for conderation, probably life expectancy (of usefulness. Note my radeon vivos have gotten me through 2-3 yrs)?
 
Unless you define a price limit per card or total price limit I can not really help you w/ the above decision.

Personally I will go w/ both 9800 series cards.

About the 9800SE, it rank just around or between a 9600 Pro and a 9600XT. It wins some and loses some.
 
I did include rough price per card ie 130ish being my current limit.

I included the higher priced cards because I expect they would have the best longevity and if the consensus is that the 9600 is gonna fade from usefulness in a year I'm better off with something else.
 
I guess you can grab one 9800 non pro (or if you are good at persuasion then a 9800 Pro) and the other 9600XT and you should be set!

almost 210+149 bucks.. (can find cheaper prices too but I buy only from newegg)
 
Okay thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah New Egg gets my business too. Never had a problem from them and their service is quite prompt.
 
Damn! I knew these PCI card users will get to me one day.. sorry buddy I do not have enough information about PCI cards.. see my thread to know if 9200 is better than your other PCI card options.

I think an FX5200 PCI card will suit you better but I am not sure. Ask around on the forums for more info. Sorry couldn't help you more :(
 
thanks KickAssCop. I thought if a card was better being agp then it would also perform better if it was pci, for example, if the fx5200 was better than the 9200 both being agp then this would also be true if they were pci. I'll just try one of those 9200 and see if i like it. Thanks again KickAssCop.
 
Hi I am planning on getting a new card, Ive narrowed the selection down to the 9800. On the list on the first page the pro version comes up higher than the non pro, but I was just wondering whether the extra 30-40 dollars is worth it? Does the pro version perform significantly better than the non pro? I will be using it for FPS games mainly, e.g. Far Cry, UT2K4, etc.
 
If you do not plan on overclocking the card then definitely get the 9800 Pro. My only gripe with 9800s is that they come with cheap infineon ram which does not overclock as well as I would like.

My 9800 Pro runs over 9800XT speeds and most of the 9800 Pros hit 9800XT speeds (not all of them though) so if you are looking for an upgrade a 9800 Pro is your best bet and well worth the 30-40 extra dollars since you can make it work like a 9800XT (if you are lucky.)
 
How does the Radeon 9800 SE 256bit 128MB rank on there?? And is that upgradeable with drivers to the 9800 Pro or XT?
 
You may or may not be able to softmod the card (it depends on how lucky you are :p) hence, it is not on the list. The 9800SE at stock speeds is comparable to a 9600 Pro and/or 9600XT. Once unlocked and if it works without artifacts you can run it at 9800 Pro levels. Softmod for 9800SE cards are available at softmod.ocfaq.com.
 
Well I just bought a Powercolor 9800SE, I'll see how it works out with the softmod.
 
I need a new video card, i know im not buyin one of the new beasts from NVidia or ATI, but I like the idea that the prices of the 9800??s and 59??s should begin to drop off slightly, in past experiance what kinda timeline do these price decreases follow...

i.e. how long should i hold out?

thanks,
P


-ps
sorry if this kinda question has come up and been answered before in the 18 some pages of this thread...
 
Prices will fall when the actual cards are available in the market and that should be in 1 to 2 months!

Do not expect the price of Radeon 9800 Pro to fall any lower than 10-20 bucks because otherwise the new mid range card would not be sold at all.. but if the new mid range card is faster than a 9800 Pro then you may see further price drops but I seriously doubt it!
 
Hey, I was wondering if any hardware guru's could match me up with a good graphics card with for my system!

What I have right now is in my comment; Dell Dimension 4550, 2ghz p4 with 256 generic ddr with a gforce2mx400.

The only game I play every day is Counter Strike and I get good fps witht his comp, except when I run into smoke grenades. However, I want to still be able to play other games on the side. ut2k4!=)

Also, my little brother is putting together a CS computer, and Im gonna give him my geforce2mx400.

I plan on building a computer in about one year! (all I really play now is cs anyways, but in a year I will HAVE to have a comp for d3 and hl2 and it will not cost me an arm and a leg to build.)

I found a 9800 oem for $170 on pricewatch. It is a little more than I want to spend, but it looks like a good deal.

So my questions are:
Would my entire system be a bottleneck for this graphics card? So much that it is not even worth buying?

What less expensive graphics cards would you recommend for me? I am thinking of a 9600 series.

What should I keep in mind in buying a graphics card? In buying a 9600 series graphics card?

Thanks in advance to all who help out! And thanks to everyone who contributes to these forums! It seriously helps the gamers who are poor college students!
 
Yep. I love my 9600xt. Excellent card for the money. If you don't mind nVidia, get a 5900XT for about the same $.
 
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