ITT Fined $100M For Illegal Exports

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ITT Corporation has been fined $100 million dollars for selling classified night-vision technology to China and other countries. While it is my job to remain objective when posting news stories such as this, I have to admit stuff like this makes my blood boil. Thanks to [H] forum member Spazilton for the link.

“The criminal actions of this corporation had threatened to turn on the lights on the modern battlefield for our enemies and expose American soldiers to great harm,” Brownlee said.
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if the fine is all that happens then I would say they got away with a good deal, assuming China payed top dollar for the tech.
 
What is the world coming too when you can't sell classified governement equipment to other countries without the goverment getting all pissed, fining you and charging you with felonies.

Its not like classified stuff is suppose to be secret or anything like that. :rolleyes:
 
This is why corporations should not be considered their own entities. If a single person had been selling this stuff it would probably be considered treason and have horrible punishments attached to it. This business just loses a little bit of it's profits and that's all, which is absolutely ridiculous. A better punishment should be that they be shut down and all of their assets sold off and that money be put into the social security fund. Screw the current system where big business owns the country.
 
The fine will be suspended for five years and the White Plains, N.Y.-based company can reduce it dollar-for-dollar by investing in the development and production of more advanced night-vision technology so the U.S. military maintains battlefield advantage.
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[Hand] *slap*
 
imho, wipe the management clean. seize all assets of the upper management, and dump them on the street.
 
honestly i dont see the big deal, or what was so horrible? it sounds like they outsourced manufacturing of their product to china, but they state that they didnt outsource the tube... the tube is what makes it work, the rest is just electronic bits to support the tube and the actuall plastic enclosure etc...

unless i misread something...
 
I know its not the bomb or anything but maintaining these small balances of power that prevent jackass presidents from attacking other countries at their leisure is probably doing more good than harm for our soldiers.
 
FLECOM said:
honestly i dont see the big deal, or what was so horrible? it sounds like they outsourced manufacturing of their product to china, but they state that they didnt outsource the tube... the tube is what makes it work, the rest is just electronic bits to support the tube and the actuall plastic enclosure etc...

unless i misread something...
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The problem is that all parts of the Night Vision device they sell to the military is classified.


Since it is controlled technology, there are certian countries which it cannot be exported to.

China is one of those countries.

I find this entire story very ironic, because last year I turned down a position with this company :) Guess I'm glad I did now.
 
Kristofff said:
This is why corporations should not be considered their own entities. If a single person had been selling this stuff it would probably be considered treason and have horrible punishments attached to it. This business just loses a little bit of it's profits and that's all, which is absolutely ridiculous. A better punishment should be that they be shut down and all of their assets sold off and that money be put into the social security fund. Screw the current system where big business owns the country.
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I totally agree.andthey then get off with a slap on the wrist like this !! :mad: What is 100 million to a member of the industial military complex... !!??!

Tip change at the local gentlemens club ?
 
Manny Calavera said:
I totally agree.andthey then get off with a slap on the wrist like this !! :mad: What is 100 million to a member of the industial military complex... !!??!

Tip change at the local gentlemens club ?
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If any member of this site did it they would be off to Gauntanamo Bay in HALF a heart beat,and then it would be off to the firing squad. :rolleyes: Yet these fools get off with a fine !?!?!!!
 
Manny Calavera said:
If any member of this site did it they would be off to Gauntanamo Bay in HALF a heart beat,and then it would be off to the firing squad. :rolleyes: Yet these fools get off with a fine !?!?!!!
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I wouldn't even call it a fine, they have 5 years to put $100mill into their R&D (which most likely they were already doing and more anyways). For the most part, it's just business as usual for these people.
 
Did China not have night vision previous to this occurring? Or did their night vision tech consist of a peasant with a torch running wherever the Chinese soldier told him to run? I guess I don't really understand why this is such a huge deal. Is America at war with China or something? I am Canadian and we export our highest military technologies* all the time.























*beer
 
That's a funny coincedence, my dad 's company is right now being contracted by ITT to make power supply testers for the PSUs used in these goggles. He says that everything in the goggles is highly specialized, and ITT is the only ones that know how to make certain parts of it. Apparently, though, he said this is old news. This is simply the settling of the plea bargain.
 
I want a few pairs of these goggles
Anyone know what the best publicly available night-vision goggles are ?
 
AbsintheCommando said:
Did China not have night vision previous to this occurring? Or did their night vision tech consist of a peasant with a torch running wherever the Chinese soldier told him to run? I guess I don't really understand why this is such a huge deal. Is America at war with China or something? I am Canadian and we export our highest military technologies* all the time.
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NVG's come in different classes and abilities (rated as Gen), with the highest class/technology reserved for the military. I think the max level for civilians is Gen 4. I may be wrong.
 
And isn't this treason? I dunno if people get brought up on that anymore...
 
AbsintheCommando said:
I guess I don't really understand why this is such a huge deal. Is America at war with China or something? I am Canadian and we export our highest military technologies* all the time.
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The reason this is such a huge deal is because, while we may not be at war with China, the problem is what China does with this technology. While China itself having the technology may not be a big deal, it would be a big deal if they turn around and sell it to another country - one that the U.S. really doesn't want this technology going to. Just like the whole ordeal with Iran and it's nuclear program. Iran may not use any nukes on us, but it would be bad new for them to be producing nukes and then selling those nukes to terrorist nations/organizations.
 
U.S. patent laws, who needs those? :rolleyes:

They really should be shoved into a tiny, dark hole for a very long time....or maybe clean out those nuke craters near Area 51. :p

I'm glad I looked at the article because ITT Corp and ITT Tech are completely different things.
 
Khaos Kid said:
The reason this is such a huge deal is because, while we may not be at war with China, the problem is what China does with this technology. While China itself having the technology may not be a big deal, it would be a big deal if they turn around and sell it to another country - one that the U.S. really doesn't want this technology going to.
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Ok, don't let them have access to enthusiast grade hardware either. Even worse, OC must be cataloged as classified technology too! Just imagine all those damn terrorists having powerful CPUs for cheap! :eek:

“The criminal actions of this corporation had threatened to turn on the lights on the modern battlefield for our enemies and expose American soldiers to great harm,” Brownlee said.
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So China is now the enemy??? WTF, we all must throw all chinese goods and stop buying them! Dismantle your computers at once!!! :D :D :D
 
The point is to keep critical military technology from any and all enemies and potential enemies.

In people weren't paying attention, we have a mutual defense treaty with Taiwan, and will fight to protect them if China moves to annex them.

Yes, we may ultimately end up at war with China.... hopefully after I get my X2900XTX... and so certain aspects of military planning has to keep that possibility in mind. That's what we pay the pentagon to do.

As fot ITT.... not until the we take everyone VP level and up out and shoot them on live TV will these cksking corporate internationalists get the message. Certain peices of information are (hopefully) or should be SUMMARY EXECUTION:

Stealth materials and technology (our critical lead vs all other opponents)

Hydrogen bomb manufacturing and design technology (only US and Russia have FUSION warheads)

Codes and military encryption (this is life and death pure and simple)

Anti-missle electronic countermeasures technology (the only reason we can safely have Carriers in sight of Iranian waters)

As an example of this administration's pathetic grasp of security, someone in the whitehouse told Chalabi that we had cracked the Iranian military codes. Him being an Iranian agent then told the Iranians. Nothing like having a couple drunks for Pres/VP who like bragging to thier pets.

As for the corporation, ITT should be shut down, broken up, everyone is fired, its assets sold off by the treasury. Stockholders can go FK themselves, let that be a lesson to you, and employees, next time dont work for traitors.
 
Burning_Monk said:
I wouldn't even call it a fine, they have 5 years to put $100mill into their R&D (which most likely they were already doing and more anyways). For the most part, it's just business as usual for these people.
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It's especially bizarre because the structure of the incentive that's masquerading as a fine is designed to strengthen investment in the business unit that committed the offense. It's basically "Aw shucks, we broke the law. And now the government is forcing the board to ramp up investment in our unit!"

What lesson is being learned here? Basically pursue all business as aggressively as possible - legal or not - but just make sure someone else is around to get fired for it. Guaranteed promotion!
 
KB24 said:
Only 100 Million , they should have something else done.
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Actually only a total of $50 million. $28 million of that is illegal proceeds - not even damages. The sentence actually put the company out $22 million compared to where they'd be if it had never happened.
 
nonlnear said:
It's especially bizarre because the structure of the incentive that's masquerading as a fine is designed to strengthen investment in the business unit that committed the offense. It's basically "Aw shucks, we broke the law. And now the government is forcing the board to ramp up investment in our unit!"

What lesson is being learned here? Basically pursue all business as aggressively as possible - legal or not - but just make sure someone else is around to get fired for it. Guaranteed promotion!
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I wonder if anyone got fired at all. Seriously, at a time like this, lenient reprimands isn't a good example to be set for other corporations. Maybe they'll actually prosecute someone when it moves to missiles or jets...
 
I used to work at this plant, and to be honest I know from a personal stand point when times were low for the company due to the lack of orders the US wasn't trying to kick in any more money to help the workers support their families (including mine). So the sales people tried to get almost any contract. I may or may not agree with the buyers but to tell the truth this stuff happen in the world all of the time. Again I may not agree with everything that happened but there are times when things are more than black and white (and sometimes green).
 
I had no idea we were planning on going to war with China, I also had no idea a soldiers life was directly at stake because of this sale.

Man not even the tubes were included and this is the reaction.

I think this is just a case of one company beating the government to the sale of exports.
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Stealth materials and technology (our critical lead vs all other opponents)
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So why didn't the air force bomb the 117 wreckage in Bosnia?
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Hydrogen bomb manufacturing and design technology (only US and Russia have FUSION warheads)
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Not true, France, the UK, and China have Hydrogen bombs as well. India/Pakistan/NK are fission only. Israel is probably hydrogen as well, and India could be ready to test an TN device soon.
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Codes and military encryption (this is life and death pure and simple)
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It's better to have an open cryptography framework that is constantly being probed by the academic community (as well as governments) to find the flaws. If Nazi Germany had done their academic homework they would have known that enigma style machines could be brute forced with mechcanical computers in the 1930's. AES is free and open and I don't see the Chinese busting it any time soon

xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Anti-missle electronic countermeasures technology (the only reason we can safely have Carriers in sight of Iranian waters)
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No argument there.
 
Our government sold the country down the river for a 'global economy' so they should take back the fine, excuse the company for being hypocritical and stfu. They are doing just what the U.S. has laid the foundation for.
 
CEO, board members and those involved should be flown to Iraq and apologize to our troops...i am sure it was faceless and bottom line decision. put some faces to the situation. i know i have faces that come to mind when i read about this, and some i wont see again except in memory :(

whether you are ok with this war or not, the fact is classified tech was sold and made available. i am really appalled by the lack of real consequences for corporate wrong doing.

...And Justice for All...who can afford it.
 
nonlnear said:
Actually only a total of $50 million. $28 million of that is illegal proceeds - not even damages. The sentence actually put the company out $22 million compared to where they'd be if it had never happened.
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According to the prosecutor, ITT agreed to pay a $2 million criminal fine, forfeit $28 million in illegal proceeds to the U.S. government and pay $20 million to the State Department.

“ITT will pay $50 million in restitution to the victims of their crimes — the American soldier,” Brownlee said.
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They made $28 million off this crime, which they are loosing. Along with another $72 million. Where did you get $22 million from? This is a net turn around of $128 million (they were +$28 and are now -$100). This is the first time a company has broken this law since it was passed (1976). I guess they should have bought off a president to declassify this stuff before they started shipping it to the UK, China, and Singapore. But other companies should get this message loud and clear. We can only hope it is another 30 years before this law is broken again.
 
pain.angel said:
I know its not the bomb or anything but maintaining these small balances of power that prevent jackass presidents from attacking other countries at their leisure is probably doing more good than harm for our soldiers.
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Disgusting. You want to maintain a balance of power with human right violators like China? You like the idea that some contries are able to limit human freedom and control citizens at will? The USA has a lot of problems and its own abuses, but nothing on the scale of many other countries in this world.
 
msummers80 said:
They made $28 million off this crime, which they are loosing. Along with another $72 million. Where did you get $22 million from? This is a net turn around of $128 million (they were +$28 and are now -$100).
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Now, I said "compared to where they'd be if it had never happened" - not "compared to where they'd be if they weren't caught". Now, bear that in mind as I go over it slowly...

There is a $2 million dollar fine, and a $20 million payment to the state dept. The forfeiture of $28 million in illegal proceeds does hurt them, but only compared to having no ruling - not compared to if it had never happened. (Because if it hadn't happened, they wouldn't have had that $28 million in the first place.)

The $50 million in mandatory investment is complete PR fluff. It might as well not exist as far as the company's balance sheet is concerned. It was thrown in to make the government's lawyers look good. After all, $100 million is a really BIG number! :rolleyes:

Hell, even if you believe that the total ruling is $100 million on the balance sheet, your numbers are dead wrong. You double-counted the $28 million to get your -$128 million net number. Using your (IMHO flawed) analysis, they were +$28 million, and they are now -$72 million, NOT -$100 million... for a net effect of $100 million.

This is the first time a company has broken this law since it was passed (1976). I guess they should have bought off a president to declassify this stuff before they started shipping it to the UK, China, and Singapore. But other companies should get this message loud and clear. We can only hope it is another 30 years before this law is broken again.
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... and the message is that the REAL fines ($22 million) won't even exceed the potential profits ($28 million). Connect the dots. This ruling is nothing but symbolic posturing. If I were even more cynical, I'd start wondering where that $20 million to the state department actually ends up going. That's a windfall for the department that doesn't come from the federal budget. I don't have a clue how the state department's budget works so I'm not going to conjecture. However I can imagine a world in which that money ends up supporting future contract negotiations with a certain company...
 
nonlnear said:
Hell, even if you believe that the total ruling is $100 million on the balance sheet, your numbers are dead wrong. You double-counted the $28 million to get your -$128 million net number. Using your (IMHO flawed) analysis, they were +$28 million, and they are now -$72 million, NOT -$100 million... for a net effect of $100 million.
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:eek: where did I learn math! You are right. -$72

You can call it flawed if you like. You have the more cynical observation, of course. They won't pay $50 million to the government, they will put the money back into the technology to make it better. They are still out of the profit, along with the $22 million hard fine you are talking about. I see your point now, but it just makes me think it would be better to force the company to create better equipment as the total fine. After all, when it gets into an incompetent and inefficient bureaucracy it will evaporate so quick it wont make a difference.
 
I dont know bofkentucky, the day the news reported it my first thought was.... nuke the crash site. But what do I know. However, the Chinese did show up in Serbian news coverage going over the crash site with a fine tooth comb.

But then, I'm sure purely coincidental, we did "accidently" bomb the Chinese embassy in Belgrade afterward.

From what I've read, though the UK/France as Nato members had access to HBomb tech, they didn't build any, thier small arsenals are only fission weapons. China as well does NOT know how or hasn't built/tested a Fusion weapon (and have been intently trying to steal the designs and manufacturing tech for decades). They allegedly have 300-400 fission warheads, barely able to reach the US.... which we could first-strike in a heartbeat if required. The Chinese posture on nukes has always been PURELY DEFENSIVE, a wise choice facing two adversaries packing at the time a combined 87,000 fusion warheads with the ability to manufacture 100,000 more asap. The Chinese nuclear threat consists of a minor concern for some US cities, and more importantly a tactical threat to our navy and airforce assets in the region.

In the grand scheme of things, our own ignorance and complacency is the #1 threat to the US. From the people's lack of education in foreign affairs issues, to the multinational corporations efforts to "globalize"... aka sell us out.

But if we learn our lesson's from WWII, we would not put ourselves in the position that Japan put itself into regarding energy, which precipitated thier going to war. Here our leaders and corporation globalizer's are putting the US into the same hole, and not just in energy, but many other critical material needs. How much of our electronics.... chips, resistors, capacitors, all the way up to motherboard, video cards, etc, etc are coming from Taiwan and other freindly BUT non-US sources, and now every increasingly directly from China.

You realize what would happen if China moved on Taiwan? Think about how much of everything hightech we buy/use/build has core components sourced from either Taiwan or China. This puts us .... or the GLOBALIZER's put us... over one hell of a barrel.

Measures need to be taken like yesterday to move all critical manufacturing BACK to the US. Do it while you can, before its too late. Otherwise its gonna hurt when China moves on Taiwan. The cowards in power now, and globalizer corporations and thier minions will have us turn our backs on our Taiwanese brothers, rather than fight to the death to defend them as we swore we would decades ago. It's a matter of honor, something the current administration knows NOTHING about.

Not to mention the movement of electronics manufacturing out of the US is far more about TAX evasion than it is about lower labor costs. Labor costs in the new Intel plant in China is going to be near 0$.... and if the same state of the art fab was built in Cali, the labor component of costs would still be near 0$.... they are so automated.

Time to revoke the patent coverage of any corporation who doesn't move manufacturing back to the US (and PAY THIER TAXES), otherwise those patents will be sold off to competitors who WILL comply. And Intel, et al can go suck an egg(roll).
 
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