It's Time For Video Game Journalists To Engage With #GamerGate

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I like the way this guy thinks. It will be interesting to see which sites accept the challenge and which ones remain silent.

It’s time for video game journalists to engage with #GamerGate, however difficult that may be. Even if this hashtag fades into oblivion, the mistrust and toxicity between game writers and their readers will persist. And that’s not healthy for this industry.
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Can they?

One one hand you've got people talking about the reporting side being heavily corrupt; on the other hand you have things like misogyny, abuse towards women, and the imbalance of male to female in the video game industry.

I've seen articles say you can't talk about one without the other, that it's a facade for attacks on women in games, that the journalism part is just a lie, to places being DDOS'ed.

It's such a quagmire that every time I see the topic come up I just want to run to anything else! It seems like an argument with so many sides and people yelling that nothing can be heard.
 
I laughed out loud at one of the earlier articles in the mix about the Escapist DDoS attack. The writer said Escapist said they weren't sure who did the attack..... Seriously there has only been one group trying to silence gamer gate talk. This is about as idiotic as accusing a company of DDoSing themselves when there are far more likely obvious targets.
 
bigstusexy said:
Can they?

One one hand you've got people talking about the reporting side being heavily corrupt; on the other hand you have things like misogyny, abuse towards women, and the imbalance of male to female in the video game industry.

I've seen articles say you can't talk about one without the other, that it's a facade for attacks on women in games, that the journalism part is just a lie, to places being DDOS'ed.

It's such a quagmire that every time I see the topic come up I just want to run to anything else! It seems like an argument with so many sides and people yelling that nothing can be heard.
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Its about journalism ethics. Everything else is an attempted distraction from the actual point. Its the old "hey look over there" tactic to distract people. Yell that someone is bullying someone online and everyone forgets about the topic at hand.
 
bigstusexy said:
Can they?

One one hand you've got people talking about the reporting side being heavily corrupt; on the other hand you have things like misogyny, abuse towards women, and the imbalance of male to female in the video game industry.

I've seen articles say you can't talk about one without the other, that it's a facade for attacks on women in games, that the journalism part is just a lie, to places being DDOS'ed.

It's such a quagmire that every time I see the topic come up I just want to run to anything else! It seems like an argument with so many sides and people yelling that nothing can be heard.
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Yup. This thing has become a mess. Though every argument on the internet eventually does.
 
I pretty much just assume game reviews are bought and paid for ads for games. I buy based on word of mouth. I've gotten burned too many times buying based on reviews.
 
The only real victims in the video games industry are underpaid, overworked developers who spend months and years building something only to have the first review be "Sucks! I want my $1 back."

everything else is just butthurt
 
mastaBlasta said:
The only real victims in the video games industry are underpaid, overworked developers who spend months and years building something only to have the first review be "Sucks! I want my $1 back."

everything else is just butthurt
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Tell that to the people who made Aliens:CM, they got what they deserved.
 
bigstusexy said:
I've seen articles say you can't talk about one without the other,
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I think that stance is bullshit and honestly the thing that's the most frustrating about the whole gamergate thing to me. I'm interested in the corrupt journalism side that I'd like to see light shown upon. I feel like the whole misogyny angle is just a distraction for that. It would be so easy to keep the corruption angle divorced from that, you just intentionally skip over topics involving M/F imbalance, Zoe Quinn, etc. and focus on stuff that's clearly just them taking money and doing favors. There's only a million examples. My favorite being Jeff Gerstmann, who was fired for giving Kane and Lynch a low score, then legally muzzled for 5 years before he was allowed to talk about it without threat of legal action.
 
Why do we need game journalists when I can watch someone play the game on twitch and make my own decisions?
 
The hell is #GamerGate and why do we care? Oh and can we quit using the word "Gate" for every goddamn thing, it's getting annoying and instantly having the reverse effect.
 
I just try to watch a few twitch videos for a game review and if there is a demo I will play that. I really don't value journalism when it comes to providing opinions on art or entertainment.
 
Dark Shade said:
Why do we need game journalists when I can watch someone play the game on twitch and make my own decisions?
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Total Biscuit has gotten me more interested in more games in the past couple years than all the articles by game review "journalists" out there. The only times they've done anything to pique my interest is when there's some sneak peek of a game in early development, and even then that does not get me to want to buy it just puts it on my radar.
 
Liger88 said:
The hell is #GamerGate and why do we care? Oh and can we quit using the word "Gate" for every goddamn thing, it's getting annoying and instantly having the reverse effect.
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Let's combine it with some more... :D

These people are gamergateaholics!!!

:p
 
This is one the stupider movements I've seen emerge from the internet.
 
Liger88 said:
The hell is #GamerGate and why do we care? Oh and can we quit using the word "Gate" for every goddamn thing, it's getting annoying and instantly having the reverse effect.
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Honestly, it is quite helpful to attach the word "Gate" to everything as it lets people know what topics to stay away from.

I would hope that game journalists are held to the same ethical standards that all other journalists are supposed to be held to, but in reality, journalistic ethics disappeared quite some time ago. I even remember having this discussion in a marketing class one time where the general consensus was that it is more important to attract attention than to get the facts right, since the attention potentially generates ad revenues and you do not want to miss out on traffic. An awful lot of people will sell their integrity for the right price...
 
Hmm on one hand I really don't care for dropping into a game and being deluges with a wall of racial and sexual epitaphs. On the other hand, I have zero need for there to be a professional position of lying to me about games or spitting out a mealy mouthed 90%+ rating just like every thing else that has crossed that person's desk, nor a burning desire to follow the politics of game development.

On the third hand, I have a huge interest in not declaring candy crush the winner in the reealm of game development models. I'm not really keen on grind-fests designed to separate a person from $90 for a reasonably executed swap three game, as much as I may like playing the occasional swap three game. Which is really the subtext of the whole social justice warrior argument rather than actually seeking ot carve out an area in a broiad selection of games where we can be free of the foul mouthed jerks and if I have my way, any fucktard who thinks we want to hear them sing karaoke while playing a game.
 
m heisty said:
Its about journalism ethics.
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Do what any other normal person would do. Stop reading them. Why do even people actually read game reviews ? Go watch a gameplay video, it will tell you more about the game in 5 minutes.
 
m heisty said:
Its about journalism ethics. Everything else is an attempted distraction from the actual point. Its the old "hey look over there" tactic to distract people. Yell that someone is bullying someone online and everyone forgets about the topic at hand.
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This, Gamergate is about unethical behavior by "professional" journalist.

Those other issues should seek their own space to be discussed and do not need to be co-opted in to gamergate.
 
bigstusexy said:
I've seen articles say you can't talk about one without the other, that it's a facade for attacks on women in games, that the journalism part is just a lie, to places being DDOS'ed.
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There are no two-sides to this story. There's wide spread corruption, dishonesty, and general lack of integrity in video game journalism.

They don't like this pointed out, and so try to break off on a tangent with other nonsense about how they are persecuted because of tits, etc. Also, generally people that are clueless and have nothing of value to say about game reviews, the things gamers care about, they like to blab on about false generalizations of feminist propaganda, hoping that the flame bait will get them some much needed clicks since they realize they are otherwise pretty irrelevant and finding it hard and harder to generate traffic to their articles.
 
The interesting thing happening here is non related journalists foolishly putting their heads into the gamergate pool. This tells me that they are afraid that the ethics light will shine its light into their corrupt corner. We all know that advertising corrupts everything. That's the advantage things like twitch and youtube have. They separate content creators and advertisers with an arms length 3rd party. Some of those on youtube and twitch have direct deals with companies, but it is obvious to anyone who has a brain when they are wearing a shirt that says "RedBull" while on their stream every day.
 
I agree, tech/gamer journalists need to go away, permanently.
All they are capable of is speculating and muddling the situation; they all know absolutely nothing about computer/network technology or gaming.
 
Ducman69 said:
There are no two-sides to this story. There's wide spread corruption, dishonesty, and general lack of integrity in video game journalism.
.
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There's wide spread corruption, dishonesty, and general lack of integrity in ALL journalism.

Gaming journalism isn't any different from any other form of journalism.

Hell, every facet of society is corrupt, dishonest and lacking integrity. Sometimes though, someone gets caught with their pants down and behold! gamergate.
 
Ok, been making games 25 years and been through a ton of crap with the press. Believe it or not in general the review "sphere" is a lot better than it was in the nineties which was a lot of payola on reviews (FYI money wasn't the only payoff used). It was a real pisser to have a game that sucked get a much better review against your same time release because some publisher had more to throw at it. That being said outside of the questionable+ behavior of Gamespot over Kane and Lynch it has been a lot cleaner.

Let's get to this engagement issue. The main reason that it isn't happening is that you can't disprove a negative. You will always be on the defensive with another wild story that is concocted. What really bothers me is that this all started around a jilted boyfriend who wanted to character assassinate his ex and her current boyfriend. Social media glommed on to it with people spinning it into the "The Press is Corrupt" mantra. The man who started this didn't give two shits about ethics in journalism just wanted to screw two people's reputation. Troll of the highest order and somehow has become a folk hero to some people. WTF!

On a last note there are a few guys in the bigs I consider to be serious chuckleheads with the dreaded "If I were the game designer..." type review style. If you are so damn good why hasn't anyone hired you so you can prove your genius. There are also those who will toady up to a publisher on various previews and then wait to hammer the game on release day. For better or worse I watched this happen on the original Killzone release by one of the biggest webzines out there.

I also have several folks in the press I consider friends and yes I've had good reviews and I have had bad reviews out of them. Even had debates with them after the fact. Why? To figure out what didn't really fly with them or didn't resonate.

To those who have bought into this hook line an sinker you have been played by a serious piece of work.

Cheers

Croaker
 
Croaker said:
Ok, been making games 25 years and been through a ton of crap with the press. Believe it or not in general the review "sphere" is a lot better than it was in the nineties which was a lot of payola on reviews (FYI money wasn't the only payoff used). It was a real pisser to have a game that sucked get a much better review against your same time release because some publisher had more to throw at it. That being said outside of the questionable+ behavior of Gamespot over Kane and Lynch it has been a lot cleaner.

Let's get to this engagement issue. The main reason that it isn't happening is that you can't disprove a negative. You will always be on the defensive with another wild story that is concocted. What really bothers me is that this all started around a jilted boyfriend who wanted to character assassinate his ex and her current boyfriend. Social media glommed on to it with people spinning it into the "The Press is Corrupt" mantra. The man who started this didn't give two shits about ethics in journalism just wanted to screw two people's reputation. Troll of the highest order and somehow has become a folk hero to some people. WTF!

On a last note there are a few guys in the bigs I consider to be serious chuckleheads with the dreaded "If I were the game designer..." type review style. If you are so damn good why hasn't anyone hired you so you can prove your genius. There are also those who will toady up to a publisher on various previews and then wait to hammer the game on release day. For better or worse I watched this happen on the original Killzone release by one of the biggest webzines out there.

I also have several folks in the press I consider friends and yes I've had good reviews and I have had bad reviews out of them. Even had debates with them after the fact. Why? To figure out what didn't really fly with them or didn't resonate.

To those who have bought into this hook line an sinker you have been played by a serious piece of work.

Cheers

Croaker
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Just because it happens in other places or it used to be worse, isn't an excuse to accept what is happening. The issue game consumers have is that they pay for games with money. They want to get an honest opinion. How can I possibly assume I am getting an honest opinion when developers, publishers, and other industry insiders are so close to the journalists? No one likes to talk shit about their friends to strangers, unless they are assholes but assholes wouldn't last long in the industry because they wouldn't get stories any more. I don't think any gamer would care if the "reviews" were marked as what they really are. Advertisements.
 
Gamers don't need these journalists for anything. I agree with DeKoth-E, They are a marketing tool that is not needed, let them fade away into history.
 
Croaker said:
Cheers
Croaker
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I like the way you think. I think a problem is many of these "reviewers" consider themselves journalists. Which they are not imo

Though what would you have people do instead of "buying into it". Ignore them all? They need to be called out on their bullshit.

temujin987 said:
i'm learning to make an indie game in flash so i can bone zoe quinn.
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Gross dude, seriously she's nasty regardless of the BS she has pulled. Why anyone would jump into that hole I'll never know. But a hole is a hole they say :rolleyes:
 
MrCaffeineX said:
Honestly, it is quite helpful to attach the word "Gate" to everything as it lets people know what topics to stay away from.

I would hope that game journalists are held to the same ethical standards that all other journalists are supposed to be held to, but in reality, journalistic ethics disappeared quite some time ago. I even remember having this discussion in a marketing class one time where the general consensus was that it is more important to attract attention than to get the facts right, since the attention potentially generates ad revenues and you do not want to miss out on traffic. An awful lot of people will sell their integrity for the right price...
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Well now there is a big part of the problem as you see, no journalists anywhere are being held to any standard other then to toe the party line. They do what their boss wants them to do and that is all. Ethics in journalism died years ago, I can't believe anyone even imagines it's any other way.
 
Croaker said:
That being said outside of the questionable+ behavior of Gamespot over Kane and Lynch it has been a lot cleaner.
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I would be surprised, it seems like the Kane and Lynch issue was more a warning to other reviewers of what would happen if they DIDN'T tow the line. Again, he had to remain silent on that for 5 years before he was allowed to comment. Was Gamespot really the lone standout of corruption in a field of shining journalism? Are all companies truly divorced of policies where a game has a full banner ad, background ad, and side ad on their site and that somehow doesn't affect the rating?

I mean hell, many AAA companies still determine whether a team gets a bonus based on their review number rating. Reviewers were given access to Sim City under special conditions to game the reviews before the infrastructure collapsed, this stuff is still happening even if it may not be as overt as before.
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lcpiper said:
Well now there is a big part of the problem as you see, no journalists anywhere are being held to any standard other then to toe the party line. They do what their boss wants them to do and that is all. Ethics in journalism died years ago, I can't believe anyone even imagines it's any other way
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Yeah, pretty much. In the past, there used to be a firewall between the news v. the corporation that owned the broadcasting company. That has completely dissolved in the past decade or two.
 
faugusztin said:
Why do even people actually read game reviews ? Go watch a gameplay video, it will tell you more about the game in 5 minutes.
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That's the biggest reason Amazon bought Twitch. Not so much to control those streams, but if you're the single point source for those Let's Plays and you insert the point of purchase in those pages, why go anywhere else to buy?

tetris42 said:
We were talking about the ivory white tower controlling content and editorial when I was in school 20+ years ago. It's not a recent phenomena by any means. It's why cable news has no credibility now.

The game journalists/reviewers I remotely trust I can count on one hand. Tom Chick, Denny Atkin, Adam Sessler, and most of Rock Paper Shotgun's staff. And two of those guys aren't really game journalists anymore. So I don't think all game journalists/reviewers are completely worthless.

But 99% are doing nothing but regurgitating feature lists.
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The lack of understanding of the media complex is evident. Journalists don't admit fault. They legendarily move the fuck on. The ombudsman exists to bury corrections in as inconspicuous a place as possible.

These "journalists" already talked in their mailing lists about their contempt for their readers. They're narcissistic slime who consider themselves an elite class when really all they are is people who would be struggling to find a job if not for our constant, puerile need to bombard ourselves with human static.
 
I'm impressed by the number of autists who are deeply concerned about a perceived lack of ethics in video game journalism.
 
I've avoided the gamer gate thing because it sounded stupid. But it's everywhere - so I'll bite. I tried to read a summary - holy shit! It's like wtf are people even arguing over? Something about gaming journalism being corrupt and paid for - ya ok, I knew that already... And something about some ugly feninazi chick and and old boyfriend. Who gives a shit? Lastly something about there being too much female T&A in games. Like comic books, TV, movies, everything ever made...

So confusing and seemingly dumb. I'm gonna go back to PLAYING the games I love tyvm :)
 
h5D131A9C
 
Here's my question.

Why are gamers so shocked?

Gaming journalism is only now being revealed as doing what mainstream journalism has been doing for the past 40 years.

Journalism, TRUE journalism is dead. We live in a second age of yellow journalism, and unfortunately, thanks to the internet we all know and love, there is no coming back from this one.
 
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