It's so true, female video game characters are so crappy in general

AmberClad said:
So what you're really telling us is that you've never played Portal or Left 4 Dead. There's a rather substantial discount on the Portal series right now, just an FYI...
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I played Portal 1. I played Left 4 Dead, I don't remember any real female characters in them aside from the computer in Portal which was awesome and in Left 4 Dead, the female was just there. She wasn't sexed up or anything, but she wasn't really a character either.
 
Dan_D said:
I played Portal 1. I played Left 4 Dead, I don't remember any real female characters in them aside from the computer in Portal which was awesome and in Left 4 Dead, the female was just there. She wasn't sexed up or anything, but she wasn't really a character either.
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Zoey = Left 4 Dead
Rochelle = Left 4 Dead 2

They're definitely Characters I'd say...

L4D / L4D2 don't really have a traditional 'plot', but Zoey and Rochelle would most definitely fit the role of a 'character'.

I don't think female portrayal in videogames is really an issue. The same woman would cry about any form of media / entertainment portraying women that are more attractive than her.
 
Spewn said:
Chell is the player-character in Portal, Pyro is from TF2.
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Intel_Hydralisk said:
Zoey = Left 4 Dead
Rochelle = Left 4 Dead 2

They're definitely Characters I'd say...

L4D / L4D2 don't really have a traditional 'plot', but Zoey and Rochelle would most definitely fit the role of a 'character'.

I don't think female portrayal in videogames is really an issue. The same woman would cry about any form of media / entertainment portraying women that are more attractive than her.
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How so? Because these characters randomly spout funny crap while you play them? Am I to understand that right? Seems a bit vague, but whatever. I'll say that portrayal of female characters in games has gotten much better. They aren't just their for sex appeal anymore. They are often far more dynamic and interesting than that. Some games do have women in them which are stereo typical vixen types lacking in any real depth. Mostly in the Japanese games from what I can see. But as someone already pointed out, that's just their society over there.

Now on TV, it's still more of a problem. They are getting better on that front as well.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
What about that quote would suggest to you that I've misused the term?
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Misogyny would be if you called all women "bitches", regardless. In this particular instance he was referring to a (hypothetical) woman who pulled some crap about crying rape when it never happened. Calling a woman a "bitch" because you think that particular woman is a bitch is not misogyny.
 
MavericK96 said:
Misogyny would be if you called all women "bitches", regardless. In this particular instance he was referring to a (hypothetical) woman who pulled some crap about crying rape when it never happened. Calling a woman a "bitch" because you think that particular woman is a bitch is not misogyny.
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But automatically assuming that she is lying about a rape and thus calling her a bitch, solely because she is a woman, is.
 
MavericK96 said:
I honestly didn't get that notion from his post at all, nor was that explicitly stated.
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That's what he was doing and the example wasn't a hypothetical. It was a real person who felt she was raped. The person she accused of rape later acknowledged he understood that the encounter they had wasn't consensual in hindsight. The poster was calling this person a bitch for no other reason than she was a woman making an an accusation of rape. That's misogynist as hell.

I'll go a step further. The term "bitch" used in any context is misogynist, even if unintentionally so. The word (as applied to women or their actions) has found its way into common usage and is socially acceptable in a lot of circles, but it's rooted in misogyny. That can't be divorced from it even when used in the context of its alternative definitions.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
The poster was calling this person a bitch for no other reason than she was a woman making an an accusation of rape. That's misogynist as hell.
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No, it was a specific case. You can't say "no other reason" when clearly it was specific to that case. Hell, it could have been a dude making the claim he was raped, it was a situational comment not a sexist one.

I'll go a step further. The term "bitch" used in any context is misogynist, even if unintentionally so. The word has found its way into common usage and is socially acceptable in a lot of circles, but it's rooted in misogyny. That can't be divorced from it even when used in the context of its alternative definitions.
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Of course it can be removed from it, we have lots of sayings and words that people don't know where they came from and any original context they might have had is completely lost :p
 
Hamish Campbell said:
That's what he was doing and the example wasn't a hypothetical. It was a real person who felt she was raped. The person she accused of rape later acknowledged he understood that the encounter they had wasn't consensual in hindsight. The poster was calling this person a bitch for no other reason than she was a woman making an an accusation of rape. That's misogynist as hell.
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In any case, he was assuming she was crying rape when there wasn't rape. All that aside, what I was originally quoting was what you said specifically and not really related to what he said at all, which was "calling a woman a bitch is misogynist". Which I disagree with, it is not inherently misogynist these days. Which leads to this:

Hamish Campbell said:
I'll go a step further. The term "bitch" used in any context is misogynist, even if unintentionally so. The word (as applied to women or their actions) has found its way into common usage and is socially acceptable in a lot of circles, but it's rooted in misogyny. That can't be divorced from it even when used in the context of its alternative definitions.
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Except girls call each other bitches all the time. Like you said, it's become disjoint from the "original" meaning (as many words often are) and I don't think most people would actually consider using the word to be misogynist anymore.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
I'll go a step further. The term "bitch" used in any context is misogynist, even if unintentionally so. The word (as applied to women or their actions) has found its way into common usage and is socially acceptable in a lot of circles, but it's rooted in misogyny. That can't be divorced from it even when used in the context of its alternative definitions.
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Because when you call a guy a bastard, it carries overtones of "illegitimate child", right?
 
Tudz said:
Of course it can be removed from it, we have lots of sayings and words that people don't know where they came from and any original context they might have had is completely lost :p
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Give me an example of a sentence containing the word "bitch" where its usage isn't misogynist (other than talking about a female dog)

Hint, the sentence: "Gary bitched at the drive-through attendant because they messed up his lunch order" is misogynist. In this sentence, we've ascribed to Gary the actions stereotypical of an irate female under classical patriarchal thinking.

MavericK96 said:
Except girls call each other bitches all the time.
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That doesn't make it OK.

drakhon said:
Because when you call a guy a bastard, it carries overtones of "illegitimate child", right?
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When used in the modern slang context? Not to most people. That's a poor example though. Bastard's correct definition is gender neutral for one. It also has been misused long enough that its original meaning is largely forgotten to many English speakers. Language evolves, but not so rapidly that even a generation can completely morph the definition of a word or divorce its common usage from its origins. "Bitch" is nowhere near that point.
 
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By the way, for a different perspective, I asked my GF (who minored in Womens' Studies and is pretty big on womens' rights) about this "bitch = misogyny" issue, and she agreed with my conclusion.

Just because a word meant something way back when doesn't mean it still means the same thing. You can look throughout history and see examples of this.

Clearly you feel differently about this, but I think if you took a poll the majority of people these days would not view it as a purely misogynist term. Hell, they say it on network TV all the time.
 
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1681305&page=3

A news thread from today about booth babes (like that wasn't asking for it enough) count how many times these chucklefucks use the word "bitch". Each and every time it's loaded with blatant, terrible misogyny. This is exactly the reason no one can redefine this word yet, regardless of context.

I appreciate the other perspective, but I don't think it's quite honest. To claim that the term isn't anything but an insult to women, regardless of context, is to passively endorse this kind of disgusting woman-hating rhetoric.
 
^^ I agree, there are WAY too many posts in that thread which are misogynist, however i think this post is quite good:
Ididar said:
Women are their own worst enemies at this stage of the game in the work force. Sure, there are some men that want to keep them out of the work place but, at this stage in western society, women are fighting themselves more than men.

There are a whole lot of women that have no problem using "sex sells" to make themselves money or advance their position. There are also another bunch that want to be "equal" only in so far as it means equal pay in the work place while not having to lift heavy boxes, pick up the tab, or do anything else along those lines that men do on a regular basis, even in a normal office environment. There's a woman down the hall that deals with all the office supplies as part of her job. That means, yes, occasionally lugging around some boxes of copier paper. I sit and watch her do it. Other women in the office scoff and declare me not much of a "gentleman" for not helping. The woman doing the job has no problem lifting the boxes. She's certainly not struggling. She doesn't complain because she's just doing her job. The other women, though, are insisting that some man should step in and help her ... reinforcing the supposed "male" stereotype of women.

Reality is ... the "weak" stereotype of women is as much pushed by other women as it is men. They like having men do the heavy lifting, hold doors, and so forth. Makes them feel special. They like the attention. Men can't fix that. Women have to do it themselves.

Now look at the booth babes. They're not forced to do it. If they have the body for it then it is relatively easy money. They can use that money to fund an education or do something else in their lives. But, they reinforce the stereotype every time they take the money. Yes, many many decades ago that was pretty much the few jobs women could do. That is no longer the case. Now they do it because they don't have any problem making money flaunting what they have for men that will drool.

So, yes, there are women out there that are strong enough emotionally and mentally to work in a job with other men and go toe-to-toe with them every day cracking jokes and taking/giving abuse. I work with four of them of them and, at times, they're more crude than the men. I also work with a few other women that are the exact opposite and think men should do all the heavy lifting, open doors, and buy them drinks. Women have to spend more time working on their own sex's attitudes than they do men's attitudes.

Men are crude and rude to each other so if women want to work in that environment then they have to expect it. If they can't handle it that isn't a sign that men need to change it is a sign that if women truly want to be "equal" then they have to get used to it or find a job where that isn't the case. Some women have figured that out and they're bloody refreshing to work with. Others are too busy blaming everything on men.
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Hamish Campbell said:
I appreciate the other perspective, but I don't think it's quite honest. To claim that the term isn't anything but an insult to women, regardless of context, is to passively endorse this kind of disgusting woman-hating rhetoric.
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No one is saying it's not an insulting term. But misogyny implies a hatred of ALL WOMEN, simply because they are women. If someone uses the term "bitch" to describe all women, then okay, it's misogynist. But if someone only uses it to describe a woman (or man, for that matter, either way) who has angered them or is acting inappropriately, it is by definition not misogynist.

You make it sound like anyone who calls a woman a bitch ever is a misogynist. That is simply not true.
 
MavericK96 said:
No one is saying it's not an insulting term. But misogyny implies a hatred of ALL WOMEN, simply because they are women. If someone uses the term "bitch" to describe all women, then okay, it's misogynist. But if someone only uses it to describe a woman (or man, for that matter, either way) who has angered them or is acting inappropriately, it is by definition not misogynist.
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You're getting hung up on the "all" part. If I call you a "bitch", I'm using a misogynist term. If I call you a n*****, I'm using a racist term (even if you aren't black and I'm not trying to be racist). I can't separate the meaning and origin of those terrible words even when using them in ways other than what would be correct by their literal definition.

MavericK96 said:
You make it sound like anyone who calls a woman a bitch ever is a misogynist. That is simply not true.
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I guess we fundamentally disagree on this because I firmly believe they're at least being unintentionally misogynist. Even if they called a man a "bitch". It's insulting to and representative of a hatred of women (not necessarily by the person using the word), regardless of intent. You don't have to hate women to be using a misogynist word.

By using these words we subtly reinforce the idea that this is just how some women are. Like this negative intangible quality described by the word "bitch" is innate to the female gender.
 
Semantically you're both correct :rolleyes:

It's the intentions that are seen & if both of you are clear in that, there shouldn't be any issues here at all.
 
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