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It's happening, affordable 4k OLED TV's are finally becoming a reality
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notarat
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That's what I did when the Seiki's came out. I got the 50" and then the 39" and both are still working just fine and both of mine have great picture quality.
I've seen many posts online (some here, some at other places) where people trashed the Seiki's and praised those $3000+ Asus and Sharp 4K TV/monitors only to sell them less than a year later at a loss because of dis-satisfaction or problems with them...
Funny you should say that. I'm rocking a Seiki 39" too!
On the other hand I still have an original Dell 24" LCD that cost me $1200 back in the day...
Makeroflostsouls
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That looks so sexy Vega super jealous. Just ordered the 40ju7500 to hold be over till they come down in size.
Martha Stewart
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Vega why have you not taken that stand off yet? My sammy is mounted to desk arm I couldn't imagine that size screen lifted off the desk, you must have to look up?
I don't really play games on it, I just load the games up to ogle the image quality. 60 Hz + input lag is a no-go for games. Even clicking stuff on the desktop takes more work as the precision isn't there lol.
Going back to a single 27" G-Sync solves the above problems, but seems tiny and low immersion compared!
Going back to a single 27" G-Sync solves the above problems, but seems tiny and low immersion compared!
Nitemare3219
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I'm honestly contemplating jumping ship... due to my panel issues, LG is offering a full refund or exchange. I can buy the TV again locally for $2500 vs the $4000 I paid originally, so I may do that. But I am also considering the new Acer XB271HK (27" 4K 75Hz -supposedly- G-Sync IPS). I'll surely miss the immersion from the size and the perfect contrast, but having good input lag and G-Sync is a world of difference. Plus this huge size at a close viewing distance completely killed the pixel sharpness of having 4K at smaller sizes. Tough decision...
This is probably not entirely accurate at a technical level, but my understanding is that the LG implementation of white OLED pixels with colored filters (especially for blue) mitigates the blue longevity issue.Has there been improvement in OLED lifespan recently? Last I checked, the blue half-life is around 5 years (assuming 8 hours a day). That's too short still. Both of my LCDs are 10 yrs old now. One of them is dying though.
^^^Vega /drool
But I could be wrong. I can't retain any useful knowledge for more than a month nowadays and it's been almost a year since I last look into this sorta thing in detail. I just remember being satisfied that OLED is awesome and I will get a 65" flat model as soon as it's affordable and I can trust my toddler not to harm it. So, years away for me.
coolhandm3
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Where can you get it for $2500?? Also I have the ec9300 I am using for console gaming, it is going ot be real hard to go back to LED like that Acer after playing on the Oled.... When you compared the ec93000 to the js9000 for lag, you said your tests show them the same? My Leo Bodnar is showing 29ms middle bar for the Oled and 22ms for the js9000 middle bar.
Richard Jones
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rabidz7
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Consider a projector.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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Dropping in this thread to chime in... co-worker just bought a new LG OLED 4k TV (55EG9600) and he called me over to hear my thoughts about it since he knows I'm an avid gamer and I take my displays very seriously.
First off, this is a pretty damn good TV. Black levels are great but black uniformity needs work. Contrast is remarkable, a big leap vs. LCDs and power consumption is fantastic. The curved screen didn't bother me at all so I have really nothing to say about it. It's a non-issue for me. He told me the colors were already pretty good out of the box but it's been professionally calibrated and it looked good to me, although I would've liked to see the expanded gamut that should be included in UHD Blu-rays in the future.
When all is said and done, especially taking into account its price, the amount of years OLED has been in development, and the types of applications it's already been deployed for... I'm not impressed. Image quality was great but motion clarity isn't as great as I thought it'd be. I noticed they didn't include a feature to mitigate image retention either, was expecting at least (AIRPO or a scrolling bar).
OLED as a technology still needs a lot of work or maybe I've overestimated how big the leap was going to be. Perhaps the technology has been hyped so much that I've expecting a lot more from it but there is some promise.
If someone were to ask me what would be the best TV right now, I would automatically refer them to ZT60/F8500. I'd wait for a few more manufacturers to start adopting OLED before pulling the trigger unless you have cash to burn, then go for it.
First off, this is a pretty damn good TV. Black levels are great but black uniformity needs work. Contrast is remarkable, a big leap vs. LCDs and power consumption is fantastic. The curved screen didn't bother me at all so I have really nothing to say about it. It's a non-issue for me. He told me the colors were already pretty good out of the box but it's been professionally calibrated and it looked good to me, although I would've liked to see the expanded gamut that should be included in UHD Blu-rays in the future.
When all is said and done, especially taking into account its price, the amount of years OLED has been in development, and the types of applications it's already been deployed for... I'm not impressed. Image quality was great but motion clarity isn't as great as I thought it'd be. I noticed they didn't include a feature to mitigate image retention either, was expecting at least (AIRPO or a scrolling bar).
OLED as a technology still needs a lot of work or maybe I've overestimated how big the leap was going to be. Perhaps the technology has been hyped so much that I've expecting a lot more from it but there is some promise.
If someone were to ask me what would be the best TV right now, I would automatically refer them to ZT60/F8500. I'd wait for a few more manufacturers to start adopting OLED before pulling the trigger unless you have cash to burn, then go for it.
Probably Discover card cashback.
It's $3000 on sale at BB, with the Discover card promo you can get 20% back and they will also match Fry's no sales tax promo.
Tbh, I'm going to wait for next year's sets - 50ms lag on the 4K OLEDs is too high for me. I tried a Samsung HU8550 that was around 45ms and I definitely noticed the lag in certain games, mainly platformers.
Every review I've seen of LG OLED TVs says that black is true black. How can there be uniformity issues with true black where the pixel isn't emitting anything?
(that's an honest question. don't mean to sound harsh or accusatory)
Nitemare3219
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Unfortunately the lag on the EG9600 is still higher which didn't match my tests at first, but I can feel it and my later tests confirmed, as did what others have said. It's about 50ms of lag. It's very noticeable with VSync enabled (so desktop does feel a bit weird). But in most games without VSync, I can't even tell. I've gotten pretty used to it. Hopefully it changes with an update later on, but I doubt it.
Don't know what you're smoking. IQ blows everything out of the water. Motion clarity is mostly due to the 60 Hz and sample and hold still being used... could obviously be better though once they mature how to work the panel. The near-instant refresh from OLED is already there.
Also, it does have anti-burn. The screen will auto-dim to very low levels when the content on screen doesn't (or barely) changes.
Don't know where you see 20% back - that's nuts! But no... Cleveland Plasma is the retailer. Online only, and they're one of the few who aren't bait and switch hounds at that price. I'm actually using my Discover card though to match one of the bait and switch sites at an even lower price, to get my cost down to about $2000.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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I never said that IQ was bad but compared to other flagships, it's not as remarkable as people make it seem, especially at $3k.
And yes, LG needs to abandon S/H and work out their black uniformity issues. I'm guessing you didn't watch dark movies? The black level is not uniform at all... it's actually worse if you play dark games. Then again this TV isn't meant for gaming anyways, the input lag is atrocious.
Ah, yeah I'm familiar with Cleveland Plasma. Didn't know Discover was willing to price match those retailers.
As for the promo, I heard about it on AVS. You have to use Apple Pay in-store and the extra 10% applies to new cardholders only (existing customers can sign up for a new card to get it, it seems). You get 10% back on the initial purchase then another 10% a year later
More details here... http://slickdeals.net/f/8095900-10-...those-with-double-cashback?v=1&src=SiteSearch
Just a few thoughts on your comments:
1. OLED black uniformity is always perfect. What you are really referring to is near-black, or dark grey's which you see in dark games/movies. There is indeed an issue with that, some suspect low level voltage control issues.
2. OLED's motion quality characteristics at this time are solely based on how it's packaged with 60 Hz sample-and-hold. OLED with pixel speeds of 0.1ms and faster if packaged properly has the potential for incredible motion clarity.
3. There are image retention prevention measures, but they are less obtrusive. They include auto brightness control for static images and a pixel wash at night once the set has been powered off for X many hours. These two resolve virtually all IR issues, besides extreme abuse cases.
4. OLED in it's short lifespan is far, far beyond LCD tech which has been tweaked over many decades. OLED is the future.
5. There are many reasons why Plasma has gone the way of the CRT. I won't rehash that here.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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I agree OLED is indeed the future. I saw your SW:BF picture and I'm glad that you are putting it to good use and are happy with it but we are comparing an adolescent technological application (who else besides LG has properly launched a mainstream OLED TV that wasn't astronomically priced) to a fully developed technology. Plasma has matured and perfected, while OLED is somewhat new... it's still developing.
Don't get me wrong, I think this TV is better than Sony's XBR/Samsung's JS LED flagships and it's a step in the right direction... but to say that it's better than the last plasma products is a bit of a stretch. I'm not the only one who shares this opinion either. As for the CRT/plasma statement, it was inevitable with the way the market was going. There was no point to continue either technology cost effectively. Profits have always been the issue with aging technology just like how 16:10 monitors are now defunct. Adding to the fact that there is no current technology that allows manufacturers to make pixels small enough for 4K didn't help its situation; the weight and power consumption was a whole other matter.
With that said CRTs will never disappear within the competitive scene (especially within the FGC) because LCD/LED/OLED TVs still don't have 0ms input lag, which is quite sad in this day and age but I have high hopes for the next generation of OLED adaptations.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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For regular PC usage yes, for gaming, no. Console fighting games are keeping them alive.
Every professional review comparing the last two years' of LG OLED directly, side-by-side, to the last plasmas (and even the Kuro, in CNET's reviews) have declared the OLED superior in every way that matters as a television.
I suspect that those declaring late-era plasmas to be superior either have defective OLEDs, have not set them up properly, or are not comparing them directly, side-by-side, but rather letting their plasma nostalgia cloud their judgement.
Or it's possible they are focusing on an idiosyncratic/subjective set of criteria.
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coolhandm3
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I have had high end plasmas like the Kuro Pro101 ISF calibrated by D-Nice and I currently have the LG 55ec9300 1080 oled that I am using for console gaming.
I would put the Oled above the Plasma, for the following reasons:
1: OLED has no phosphor trail like plasmas do ( even the Kuro and Vt50-vt60 have them, especially with 60 fps games). 30fps game son plasma had a double image that doesn't occur on the oled or lcd even.
2: Black on Oled is completely absent of light, games in particular benefit alot from this as they use absolute black alot.
3: Lower input lag on the 55ec9300 ( 29ms middle bar Leo Bodnar ) versuse the 55ms I had for all three bars on my Elite Kuro pro101 ( even in pc mode or game mode it was 55ms).
4: NO DSE on the Oled. All of the Elite Kuro's I have had ( pro1150, pro110, pro111 and pro101 had DSE ).
5: NO PWM on the Oled, plasmas have pwm and even have noise on them from the pwm on the picture.
The only thing I would say is better on the plasma is the low level grey, there is no banding on the plasma with that. In most real world content you will not see banding on the Oled but sometimes it rears its head. Would love for them to fix it and send a firmware update to us to remove the banding as I suspect Vega is correct that it is a low voltage issue.
I also would say that for gaming I would take Oled over plasma anyday, I actually find the motion to be alot cleaner then plasma and far more clear then 60hz lcd. I have had a ROG gsync 120hz 27 inch monitor and if games were running at 120hz the motion was indeed more clear but that is twice the framerate. If Oled offered 120fps input I feel it would supersede a lcd at 120hz for motion.
Even with the faults of Oled currently, I would not be able to say with a straight face that any plasma is overal better then the best Oled's right now. Native 4k content on a 4k Oled is superior to a 1080p f8500 or vt60 plasma. We also have to remember that image retention is way more an issue on those plasmas then the oled.
Also when there is light in the room, the Oled has a much better anti reflective screen and the blacks still look black in a sunlit room, this can NOT be said o plasma where a sunlit room will make those blacks looks grey. Even with a voltage modded Elite pro101 or 500m could not produce pure black like the Oled.
I can watch the Oled in the pitch black at night and play games like Last of Us or Metro and the blacks look like ink, it changes how the games look and I would not want to go back, even with the 29ms of lag. If I were to game with a pc on here I would just disable vsync and have even less lag which I may do someday.
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Not quite. Plasmas have (at least they had in 2014) superior motion resolution and color accuracy. OLEDs are the future, obviously, though I still think SED would've been better.
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Okay, I concede that. Though I guess I could consider putting motion resolution above contrast and blacks as a somewhat idiosyncratic criteria.
My point was that those who are professionally comparing OLED to plasma, directly, side-by-side, and documenting their findings have all (to my knowledge) said that if pressed, taking into account all considerations, would choose the OLED. Which is not to say that OLED isn't without minor, niggling flaws (as are all technologies, including plasma).
Incidentally, though I guess it doesn't matter, I own a 55VT50. Which I believe is the 2nd-to-last production run of Panasonic plasmas (if memory serves, there was essentially stagnation between the panels themselves at one point between the VT50, VT55, and VT60). I can't say I've compared them side-by-side, but every time I visit our local retailers and see the demo OLEDs, I'm blown away. I want.
Well, as a huge sucker for black level and contrast, I can see why OLED would be praised. I don't think I would replace my ST60 just yet though, not until they move away from the sample and hold method. The sooner we forget LCDs the better.
Does anyone know how resilient the OLEDs are to IR and burn-in in practice?
Does anyone know how resilient the OLEDs are to IR and burn-in in practice?
What is this sample and hold method? What does it mean?
Odellus
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shouldn't the high refresh, low persistence OLED screens in the oculus rift and project morpheus have motion resolution on par with plasma, if not better?
Odellus
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that doesn't have anything to do with my question. i want numbers.
Plasma most certainly will not have better motion than OLED. OLED's have virtually perfect instant on/off pixels less than 0.1ms. It's only the current immature electronics design of 60 Hz sample-and-hold than creates motion issues. Packaging OLED properly for motion in the future, it will surpass even CRT.
Just how many hours a day do you spend sitting in front of a display !?
The main viewer will double as monitor and TV, so... 12 hours a day?
Although the reporter is a bit of a dud, cool video that shows inside LG's OLED factory:
http://testtube.com/inthemaking/all-about-oled-tvs-at-lg-factory-in-korea/
http://testtube.com/inthemaking/all-about-oled-tvs-at-lg-factory-in-korea/
Linus' "review" of the LG 65" 4k OLED TV he was given by LG (so take his experience with a grain of salt as always):
https://www.vessel.com/videos/Br0EgQ6rB
https://www.vessel.com/videos/Br0EgQ6rB
tigger1612
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I bought a 65EF9500 last week. As a former Kuro Pro141 owner and JVC RS55 projector owner, these oleds are on another level plain and simple. Ive had all my displays calibrated etc. and the oled provides a depth to the image that is simply unmatched by anything else. I still have a calibrated kuro 6020 upstairs for comparison and its not even close.
I will say the oled is still a lottery as some have the vignetting and yellow streak but hopefully they are just manufacturing or firmware issues that can be easily fixed. I can't wait for my marantz av8802a to get here so I can mess around with the htpc outputting at 4k@60 4:4:4.
I will say the oled is still a lottery as some have the vignetting and yellow streak but hopefully they are just manufacturing or firmware issues that can be easily fixed. I can't wait for my marantz av8802a to get here so I can mess around with the htpc outputting at 4k@60 4:4:4.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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It's sad that Sony didn't pursue development with FED either... it would've been phenomenal to have SED/FED on the market. But I'll keep my ZT60 a bit longer and wait for other manufacturers to jump in the OLED fray. There's bound to be new implementations that'll pave the way for the rest of the market.