IT people -- am I paid fairly?

summy

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What I've realized in a lot of the responses is that some of you are really underpaid, but I guess every situation is different. My gut tells me that if I was to leave, they would hire 2 people to replace me, and it would set them behind 6-9 months, if not longer. Throw that on top of the $800,000 in sales we do via eBay, a $10,000 raise seems pretty small in the scheme of things. Hopefully I can communicate that when I ask for the money!

I think you hit the nail on the head right there! The IT "group" has an issue with communication in general, and can't effectively translate our work into something management can understand. I often see threads on here where "x" IT employee is complaining about "y" uninformed IT manager and they just don't get it! You can't tell management the technical stuff, you need to speak their language. Based on your ROI experience and some of what you posted, I'm sure you'll do fine when you present them with your offer though ^^ Either way, you'll definitely find out if they appreciate what you've done for them so far. I'd rather work for a company that appreciates what I do for them...
 

Dogs

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You can't tell management the technical stuff, you need to speak their language.

Which is why I personally believe that people shouldn't be managers of things they don't understand. If you don't know anything about the technical end of IT, you shouldn't be an IT manager. Likewise, if you don't know anything about banking, you shouldn't be a bank manager. Yet for some reason, we get stuck working under people who could never do even a basic 'user support' job, yet get paid more than I do because they're in charge of the 'business'. The best managers I've ever had in any field have been the ones who started in a role much like the ones they now manage.
 

Tee

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In IT you have to be a ROI for the business you work for. If you are not an ROI, than you are only worth what the company wants to pay for you.

If you cannot show the company that you are adding an ROI on the technology they use everyday to make the money that pays your wages, than you are not doing your job and you should not be paid more or even have a job.

I find lots of IT people think they do a lot when they do not or they think they can do more than they actually can. I know I think I can sometimes but I think this gets in the way of a lot of people looking to advance in IT.
 

Jay_2

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You can be an IT manager without knowing the ins and outs of IT. You do need to know the basics like what VMWare is and what a VLan does but nothing deeper than that, with that in mind the manager must also understand their limitations and listen to their team. My last IT manager didn't even know that and would go to every tech meeting on his own. Bloody nightmare when the IT managers only remit is to try and keep their job.
 
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jtr8178

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You can be an IT manager without knowing the ins and outs of IT. You do need to know the basics like what VMWare is and what a VLan does but nothing deeper than that, with that in mind the manager must also understand their limitations and listen to their team. My last IT manager didn't even know that and would go to every tech meeting on his own. Bloody nightmare when the IT managers only remit is to try and keep their job.

I agree 100% with this ... I've been a Manager of many different departments, but I did have to know the basics... and surround myself with good people.
 

DICOMdude

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Sep 22, 2012
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Kingston, Jamaica.

Me : "Dude, let me show you this IT thread on Hardocp... Most of them are under appreciated and under-paid just like us!! WTH"
IT Friend : "Its like that the world over it seems.... even Americans have IT managers that suck!"
Me : Looks like it. Sigh.
 

nitrobass24

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I wouldnt ask for a raise....i would ask if I could hire someone to help out.

This way you are doing less work, and are managing people. 70k isnt bad, even in most big cities.
 

mikey71497

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Boston Metro Area....MetroE Tech for MSO. Base pay is mid 70s, add bonus, on-call pay and OT I am six figures. I also get a company truck /gas card. It all depends on where you live and the company you work for. It could be worse...you could be unemployed.
 

stiltner

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I do 40 a week and I'll average about 40k. I do Tier I/II level tech support.

You're slightly underpaid, cause I sit in my underwear and I don't have to justify $4/gallon gas to do it.

Its pretty effin sweet ya know.

If you're in ville though 70k buys a lot of redneck girls a lot of cheap pot, priorities my friend, priorities
 

jtr8178

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Yea, they've agreed to let me hire someone to do the first level desktop support and some basic server maintenance items... So that will happen in February/March or so.

Anyhow, I emailed the VP that I report to and asked for a one-on-one meeting next week, preferably on Monday. She immediately called me back and started asking me if everything was alright, and I needed to meet right now, etc... I told her I would rather do it on Monday. You could tell she was nervous/worried that I was quitting.

So I've prepared 2 things -- One is a list of items that I've changed over the last 18 months that saves the company roughly $300,000 over the next 3 years. I also included a line regarding the Internet sales we do of around $800,000 per year (and growing).

The other thing I have is some print outs from various websites (CBsalary.com, salary.com, Glassdoor.com, and an article from Information Week) that shows the "average" IT Manager salaries. Obviously my situation is different since I work for a smaller company (which isn't an IT company), but it is the closest thing I can find. Average salary between all of them is $94,500. I don't expect to get that much, but I'm hoping I'll end up with a hefty raise and some additional perks.

Wish me luck! :D
 

schnell

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I have come to the realization that IT people are pretty much always underpaid. Don't expect large raises either; the only raises I have ever had have been cost of living. I get my raises by changing jobs, usually 10-15% :). But I still feel underpaid and unappreciated but that comes with the job. No one says thanks when the email server runs without a hicup for a year.
 

Vito_Corleone

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I have come to the realization that IT people are pretty much always underpaid. Don't expect large raises either; the only raises I have ever had have been cost of living. I get my raises by changing jobs, usually 10-15% :). But I still feel underpaid and unappreciated but that comes with the job. No one says thanks when the email server runs without a hicup for a year.

I think it depends. I actually feel overpaid, to be honest.
 

pwrusr

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I have come to the realization that IT people are pretty much always underpaid. Don't expect large raises either; the only raises I have ever had have been cost of living. I get my raises by changing jobs, usually 10-15% :). But I still feel underpaid and unappreciated but that comes with the job. No one says thanks when the email server runs without a hicup for a year.
"IT" is a pretty vast field that covers quite a number of fields and sub categories. A number of professions in IT are pretty thankless though. So I understand where you're coming from on that one.
 

XOR != OR

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I think it depends. I actually feel overpaid, to be honest.
No such thing.

Supply and demand; the only time you are overpaid happens to be the same moment a company fires you for being redundant. Otherwise, the company you are working for obviously thinks your services are worth what they pay you. Otherwise, they wouldn't.
 

Blitzrommel

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No such thing.

Supply and demand; the only time you are overpaid happens to be the same moment a company fires you for being redundant. Otherwise, the company you are working for obviously thinks your services are worth what they pay you. Otherwise, they wouldn't.

Better to be overpaid than underpaid!
 

schizrade

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Some of the responses here are hilarious.

70K is not too shabby. The jobs that pay all these crazy amounts are few and far between and fought over like crazy. The majority of IT jobs in LA for example do not pay insane salaries. Also, the IT markets in big cities are cut-throat, and the high paying jobs hire quick and fire quick. I will take a lower paying position that is stable and will allow me to have a life than the one that pays me crazy money but wants 80+ hours a week of my time and will likely toss me off at the end of a project.

I had an offer at Disney but turned it down when I realized how fast the turnover rate is, and they only hire the best. They know they will get the same or better for the next round, so they clear house every few months. No thanks.
 

squishy

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It just depends on the location. I almost don't even want to comment, but here in the bay area, I was making 70K as a sysadmin in 1997/1998.

If I lived in a place with a lower COL and much lower housing costs, I'm sure 70K would be fine. Here in the bay area, you're pretty much considered poor and IIRC, at least in the city of SF, you can actually apply for housing assistance with that salary.
 

XOR != OR

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It just depends on the location. I almost don't even want to comment, but here in the bay area, I was making 70K as a sysadmin in 1997/1998.

If I lived in a place with a lower COL and much lower housing costs, I'm sure 70K would be fine. Here in the bay area, you're pretty much considered poor and IIRC, at least in the city of SF, you can actually apply for housing assistance with that salary.
When studio apts in "The City" ( yes, us central valley folks like to call it "The City"...as if it's the only city we have ) go for 2k/month, I can very easily see that.
 

marty9876

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No such thing.

Supply and demand; the only time you are overpaid happens to be the same moment a company fires you for being redundant. Otherwise, the company you are working for obviously thinks your services are worth what they pay you. Otherwise, they wouldn't.

I would disagree. What the company things your services are worth, and what the marketplace considers your services worth are not always the same thing. When a company is paying more (substantially more) than what the marketplace is offering your overpaid in my view.

Good thread, interesting to cut through the taboo of salaries out there.
 

ekuest

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Yea, they've agreed to let me hire someone to do the first level desktop support and some basic server maintenance items... So that will happen in February/March or so.

Anyhow, I emailed the VP that I report to and asked for a one-on-one meeting next week, preferably on Monday. She immediately called me back and started asking me if everything was alright, and I needed to meet right now, etc... I told her I would rather do it on Monday. You could tell she was nervous/worried that I was quitting.

So I've prepared 2 things -- One is a list of items that I've changed over the last 18 months that saves the company roughly $300,000 over the next 3 years. I also included a line regarding the Internet sales we do of around $800,000 per year (and growing).

The other thing I have is some print outs from various websites (CBsalary.com, salary.com, Glassdoor.com, and an article from Information Week) that shows the "average" IT Manager salaries. Obviously my situation is different since I work for a smaller company (which isn't an IT company), but it is the closest thing I can find. Average salary between all of them is $94,500. I don't expect to get that much, but I'm hoping I'll end up with a hefty raise and some additional perks.

Wish me luck! :D

best of luck sir! by my calculations you should be having this meeting sometime soon. i'm looking forward to hearing how it goes. you definitely have some good arguments in your favor.
 

jtr8178

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best of luck sir! by my calculations you should be having this meeting sometime soon. i'm looking forward to hearing how it goes. you definitely have some good arguments in your favor.

Yes, I met with the VP, we had a good talk for 15-20 minutes about it. She agreed that I deserved a raise, along with a more structured bonus plan (My current plan is whatever the CEO feels like giving me). She took all the material I had, and plans to get back with me early next week. She was only working Monday & Tuesday this week, so I'm just sitting and being patient.

I will say that she didn't flinch when I gave her the 4 different reports with "average IT salaries" on them. She also thought I was making $75,000 per year, not the $70,000 that I'm at... So we will see.

Thank you to everyone for the opinions and current salary information... It has helped!
 

summy

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Excellent results! It always feels good when you mention something like you did to an employer and you can sense the fear, at least you know you're appreciated ^^ I'll await the official outcome, but do keep in mind that the bonus may be taxed differently compared to wages (no idea what type of bonus they're actually giving you), so keep that in mind if you end up negotiating with them.
 

Schro

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Excellent results! It always feels good when you mention something like you did to an employer and you can sense the fear, at least you know you're appreciated ^^ I'll await the official outcome, but do keep in mind that the bonus may be taxed differently compared to wages (no idea what type of bonus they're actually giving you), so keep that in mind if you end up negotiating with them.

Generally, bonuses have taxes withheld at the highest withholding level but that doesn't mean that you're taxed more on bonuses - when you do your taxes at the end of the year, you'll get most of it back. Of course, unless you reduced your other withholdings to end up at zero...
 

haunter

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I wouldnt ask for a raise....i would ask if I could hire someone to help out.

This way you are doing less work, and are managing people. 70k isnt bad, even in most big cities.

70K would be just scratching by in most of the big metro areas of the US if you wanted to actually own anything, both coasts, and chicago atleast
 

wtburnette

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70K would be just scratching by in most of the big metro areas of the US if you wanted to actually own anything, both coasts, and chicago atleast

Many people have stated earlier in the thread that location is one of the most important factors when considering salary. Did the OP ever post where he's at? If so I missed it...
 

ciggwin

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Many people have stated earlier in the thread that location is one of the most important factors when considering salary. Did the OP ever post where he's at? If so I missed it...

Somewhere by Charlotte?
 

Adam

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What state are you working in btw? It never hurts to ask for a raise, you brought lots of good info to them which also shows them you can prepare things very well. So even if they say no, its good they see you wanting to earn more and continue to be a part of their organization.

No harm in ever asking for a raise if you deserve it.
 

Richneerd

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Am I crazy to ask for a raise? Here is my situation:

- Currently titled IT Manager
- 230-ish employee's in the company, 150 PCs/laptops
- I'm responsible for everything from new employee setup (email, AD, Cisco Call Manager, vendor websites, etc...) to desktop support to networking.
- We will be hiring someone to help me do desktop support in the next 60 days, which will work under me
- I manage our document archiving system, all servers including Kaspersky anti-virus, domain (and back-up) controllers, Exchange server, internal business system, all wireless routers, all switches/routers/ASA's, etc... Basically if it is anything to do with a computer, networking, printing, faxing, or anything mobile, I'm the guy.

I currently make $70,000 salary, work around 50 hours per week, all normal hours. I'm obviously "on call" at nights and weekends if an emergency comes up. I get another $10,000 per year in bonus, so $80k total.

To top it off, I'm also in charge of marketing for the entire company, plus I started an online/eBay store about 2 years ago that is still under my control. We generate around $800,000 per year off of that.

I do most things myself, but have vendors to help with CallManager and networking that gets beyond the basics. I setup all the new phones, change ring patterns, etc... When there is some issue that arises, I call in the "experts" and let them have at it.

So what do you think? Should i ask for a raise?

You are fine, Network Administrator, 5000 employees, 3 cities. $33,000 before tax atm...

sigh...
 

gerdawg

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You are fine, Network Administrator, 5000 employees, 3 cities. $33,000 before tax atm...

sigh...

No offense but you could probably work at McDonald's as a store manager with that salary in many area's. It all depends on what you do, how long you've done it and what you bring to the company.

If your starting out as a network administrator with minimal responsibilities, are new to the field, out of school, etc. I'd expect you'll start somewhere around there just to get your feet wet as the company probably assumes they are taking a risk on you. If you're the person planning and implementing these systems, supporting or responsible for the 3 cities, etc. then you'd be better off finding some place else to work or asking for a serious raise.

I work with a gentleman that has his own training school. So many time's most of the perspective students come into him hearing an ad on the radio how IT admins can make 60K a year to start or MORE! Simply by going to their school. The reality is that most don't, not until they have the experience and track record to support getting paid that. My/his experience is that most companies look for an individual with tenure in the field over a degree (first) or certifications. From there anything added counts more in the favor of the potential hire.
 
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wtburnette

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You are fine, Network Administrator, 5000 employees, 3 cities. $33,000 before tax atm...

sigh...

I'm not sure where you live, but even as an entry level network admin with less then a year of experience, that's pretty low pay. Up until a month ago I was working as a helpdesk/desktop team lead making more money then that and the techs under me were all making more as well. One only had two years experience in the industry, too. This is in Indy BTW.
 

RESTfulADI

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70k a year in DC for what you do is crums. You would make at least 110 here.

But you would be paying 2500/month for a 2br apartment.

Anyway, well done on stating your case and going about it the right way. It's all about showing value. I took a similar approach when my contract ran out recently and it worked pretty well. If your employer sees value in what you bring to the table, they will probably pay you accordingly once you state your case.

If they don't, they probably never will and at least you know to look for another job.
 

jtr8178

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I forgot to include my info in my original post. I am in Columbia, SC. Columbia & metro area is around 750,000 people... So not quite a cornfield, but not Atlanta or Charlotte either.
 

jtr8178

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You are fine, Network Administrator, 5000 employees, 3 cities. $33,000 before tax atm...

sigh...

wow .... that seems really low. Someone with 1-2 years experience doing basic desktop support makes more than that in South Carolina.
 

Vito_Corleone

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I forgot to include my info in my original post. I am in Columbia, SC. Columbia & metro area is around 750,000 people... So not quite a cornfield, but not Atlanta or Charlotte either.

I think you're paid pretty well then. CoL in SC is low.
 

Richneerd

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No offense but you could probably work at McDonald's as a store manager with that salary in many area's. It all depends on what you do, how long you've done it and what you bring to the company.

If your starting out as a network administrator with minimal responsibilities, are new to the field, out of school, etc. I'd expect you'll start somewhere around there just to get your feet wet as the company probably assumes they are taking a risk on you. If you're the person planning and implementing these systems, supporting or responsible for the 3 cities, etc. then you'd be better off finding some place else to work or asking for a serious raise.

I work with a gentleman that has his own training school. So many time's most of the perspective students come into him hearing an ad on the radio how IT admins can make 60K a year to start or MORE! Simply by going to their school. The reality is that most don't, not until they have the experience and track record to support getting paid that. My/his experience is that most companies look for an individual with tenure in the field over a degree (first) or certifications. From there anything added counts more in the favor of the potential hire.

I'm not sure where you live, but even as an entry level network admin with less then a year of experience, that's pretty low pay. Up until a month ago I was working as a helpdesk/desktop team lead making more money then that and the techs under me were all making more as well. One only had two years experience in the industry, too. This is in Indy BTW.

wow .... that seems really low. Someone with 1-2 years experience doing basic desktop support makes more than that in South Carolina.

Thanks for the heads up and complements guys.

I live in California, 4 years experience in the industry. I do notice they look for experience over degree and certifications.

They would give the job to joe blow who has been working there for 4 years over someone new with only 1 year with a degree and certifications. Kinda pisses me off :mad:.
 

wtburnette

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Thanks for the heads up and complements guys.

I live in California, 4 years experience in the industry. I do notice they look for experience over degree and certifications.

They would give the job to joe blow who has been working there for 4 years over someone new with only 1 year with a degree and certifications. Kinda pisses me off :mad:.

You must not be in one of the really high CoL areas in Cali, right? If you are in a high CoL area, you need to find another employer fast.
 
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