It Might Be Time To Stop Using Antivirus

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Horrible article.
    Irresponsible article.
    Insane article.
     
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  2. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    Actually i almost agree with the article, i have been irked that todays antivirus cannot stop ransomware.

    machines have norton, avast, mcaffee, or kaspersky and yet some how this supposed background scanning, heuristic scanning , signature detection, antivirus can not stop a rouge process from
    accessing every file in the users directory and encrypting it.

    what the hell is the av engine doing ? while each file is significantly changed ??

    this is what av was supposed to prevent .

    now all they seem good at is signature matching.

    and if they dont have the latest sigs.. oh well dont run across a infected ad networks or its pain and suffering for you.


    so yeah av is almost in the state of uselessness.. only thing it is good for, is keeping adware off the computer, but here in the last few years they are starting to even fail in that role.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  3. STrAYeR

    STrAYeR Limp Gawd

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    Yeah I am not going to stop using AV anytime soon. I also tried Bitdefender. I stopped when Bitdefender automatically upgraded me to the highest version, even though I unchecked all boxes that allowed it to override me. So basically the settings don't mean jack to Bitdefender. Bitdefender will upgrade you no matter what you want. I consider that malware.
     
  4. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    So...

    If you don't run any form of AV whatsoever and you're just going to rely on your 1337 skillz, how do you know you aren't part of some huge botnet?!

    Are you just so at one with your machine that you can sense the threat, even though malware and viruses are socially engineered to fool the exact people that believe they're above AV?!

    ...Sounds a little backwards to me.
     
  5. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Agree 100%. Haven't used antivirus in decades, never had an issue. Same on my parents systems. Just don't give them admin rights, and make them use google chrome. Never a problem.

    Most of the people getting viruses are downloading pirated software, lets be honest.
     
  6. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm fairly certain all of the 80yo clients I have don't get malware from downloading pirated warez....
     
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  7. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    After I installed ad blocker for my parents and friends, the calls to come fix their computer stopped.
    Pop-Ups/Banner Ads, sketchy websites and emails from people you don't know are the key threats. Most people problems are solved avoiding them.

    I only have ads enabled for [H] and Overlock.net.
     
  8. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    I only use MSE + adblock (whitelist [H]!) + noscript + cookie monster + don't be a fucktard and download shady shit

    Haven't gotten a virus in...I don't remember when.
     
  9. fightingfi

    fightingfi Look at Me! I need the attention.

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    Kaspersky Total Security for me its FREE after mail in rebate every year at christmas so even better. Anything is better than nothing ive used AVG and Avira for my customers pc's to save them money with malware bytes\ super antispyware etc....never really any issues now avast and norton imho have to leave town and planet earth those are CRAP..............
     
  10. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

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    Nope, they get it from that kinky 80yo porn :-D
     
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  11. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, I have found some nasty stuff on clients PC's before....
     
  12. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    What I find interesting is he points us to Google, and it seems like aside from a single Norton issue last may (fixed within 11 days), Kaspersky is the only one with issues and I suspect most of them were related. Oh wait there was 1 for AVG too. No nontrivial software is without bugs. Based on that google page, I'd say AV software bugs are pretty low.

    Besides, about the only time I have issues with norton interacting with s/w is when the firewall portion blocks some port. Finally, maybe that blogger and a huge chunk of his commenters are perfect browsers, but I can promise you I've gone to a random site and had attacks attempted. It's rare, but it happens and Norton caught.

    Considering that I'm able to generally install it on 5-10 PCs for 15-30 bucks, I'll ignore Mr. I used to work at Mozilla. There was a time I did forgo AV, but those days ended roughly 10 years ago. I suspect at some point, we're all going to need it on our phones too.
     
  13. AK0tA

    AK0tA Gawd

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    Win defender, spybot and adblock is all i have used for a good while and have no issues. Keep Avast on the wifes computer due to work regulations but I must find something better as avast is a pos these days.
     
  14. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    I haven't used a AV program in 9 years. And never had a problem so far.
     
  15. RIF: It's not so much that anti virus doesn't do it's job. Products like McAfee, and Kaspsky are finding viruses better than MS's products. The problem is they also open up new attack vectors which MS does not suffer from. And while Kaspersky is rated among the best, they do have a bunch of attack vectors they have not patched. That and their Android anti virus sucks. Their url checking servers constantly time out resulting in a page not found error on Android Chome. It got to the point i had to disable Chrome's real time safety under android.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2017
  16. GilmourD

    GilmourD [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Everybody missed the most important part of this article.

    This guy's an ex-FIREFOX developer.

    Firefox. You know, that giant clusterfuck of memory leaks, unfixed bugs, and bloated features that NOBODY asked for. I call it Firefucks.

    Are we really gonna believe THIS guy?
     
  17. Jorona

    Jorona 2[H]4U

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  18. madweazl

    madweazl Limp Gawd

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    The best way to monitor things like this is via resource usage.
     
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  19. Wiffle

    Wiffle Limp Gawd

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    In my experience, the first sign you have some kind of virus is your AV software has been disabled or won't run.

    Don't use social media sites, don't play browser games, don't install "free to play" games. If the activity you are doing is somewhat illegal, like downloading "hacks" for your latest and greatest FPS, your chances of getting a virus is very high, especially if you get the files from a dubious website. When you are away from your computer for extended periods of time either shut it off completely or put it into sleep mode where cpu activity will turn it back on. Can't be part of botnet if its not running.

    AV itself provides zero defense. Only time it seems to work is once your computer starts acting funny and you do a "deep scan" and low and behold you have 20 different malicious scripts running. The vast majority of truly malicious software disables AV software anyways, so aside from using a free AV program like windows defender, AV is worthless.

    If you are a power user and quite familiar with how things work, Firefox + Noscript is amazing. Annoying at first, but once you get the hang of it, its amazing. Websites can only load the bare minimal unless you allow it to run additional scripts. Blocks ads, pop-ups, redirects, click-jackings, and just about anything under the sun. Its like a Soviet Iron Curtain for your PC.

    There is no end-all catch-all anti-malicious software out there despite what these companies claim. Only good browsing habits will save you.

    Condom makers only advertise their products "significantly reduce pregnancy and STD's". AV software is no different.

    Be careful where you stick your prick and what you shove up your clam hole, and you will remain STD free.

    With all that said, nothing is going to prevent someone who is actively trying to harm you, they will find a way. Only thing you can do is make it far more difficult than it is worth.

    The only 100% way to prevent any and all viruses from infecting your PC, phone, or other computing device: Don't own one.

    BTW, most porn sites are surprisingly safe. Religious and Educational websites on the other hand tend to be rife with nasties. Funny how that works.
     
  20. caddys83

    caddys83 2[H]4U

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    I remember when it was the to go-to browser lol
     
  21. SamuraiInBlack

    SamuraiInBlack [H]ardness Supreme

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    One time, I came home from work, turned on my computer and went to go get something to drink. This was back when loading from bootup to desktop actually took some time for me.

    I come back to whatever antivirus I had at the time (I can't remember which specifically, I've rotated through multiple AVs) losing its shit as it's catching some insane infection and trying to stop it from doing its thing. I remember that the day before, I had just done a complete scan of my entire system, ran Spybot, ran AdAware, and a couple other anti-crap tools I had at the time. I wound up going into safe mode and doing an ultra paranoid cleaning.

    I'm keeping an antivirus. It may not be the best antivirus but it's better than nothing.
     
  22. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    You guys really like anti virus huh? Man, I've always felt they are worse than the threats they have been trying to save me from
     
  23. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Haha, wtf does the author secretly work for MS or something?
     
  24. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    I used to work for an AV vendor. I refuse to use their products, even when I could get them for free. Let's pretend it rhymes with "whackafeee".

    ESET NOD32 is awesome. It's $10 or less a year, barely uses any resources, can't even tell when it's running on crappy old systems like mom-in-law's etc.

    I used to use Norton for a while but it seemed like it was really hit or miss (depending on the version) on the system resources. It got to the point where I gave up and went to NOD. 10 years ago?

    Kaspersky is usually free or pretty cheap after some form of rebate. I've gifted some to relatives/in-laws who are too cheap to pay for anything.

    The whole "I'm smart and I will never get a virus because XYZ...." line of reasoning is dumb. $10 a year is a whole lot easier than reloading your OS every year. Even smart people click on something they shouldn't from time to time.

    And yeah, Firefox was great... 15 years ago.
     
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  25. madweazl

    madweazl Limp Gawd

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    Actually, a reimage is usually quicker than a full scan.
     
  26. potency

    potency Gawd

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    If you and your parents only email each other, then yeah, that's a dandy approach. And no, viruses aren't only spread through pirated software, you can't be serious with that.
     
  27. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Deep breath.

    Read what I wrote again, recognize that's true, and what you wrote is not what I said.

    My parents and siblings are not tech savvy and by simply using legitimate software, keeping the OS up to date w/ automatic updates, using Chrome (yes with ad blocker I setup for them, previously adblock plus but now ublock origin), and not having admin rights on their accounts, they have never had any issues. They also all use gmail, which makes transmission of viruses through that channel extremely unlikely.

    Anti-virus for non-pirates on private networks is not necessary.
     
  28. GameLifter

    GameLifter Limp Gawd

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    I've always had AVG and Malware Bytes to be safe and regularly run scans. AVG has caught some things for me throughout the years but it's not perfect. It's been on my parents PCs for years but they have managed to get malware on quite a few occasions. Mainly from my dad opening up spam e-mails that are being sent to him from when he gave his e-mail address to an e-mail harvester site years ago. What I've noticed is that adware is starting to manifest in Google Chrome extensions and I don't know if current AV software blocks these. Avast checks for them when you do a scan but I didn't use it for too long since it interfered with a few of my games and hogged resources. Recently my parents laptop got a really bad virus that added a Google Chrome extension and would literally yell at you and force you to put it back if you removed it. Malware Bytes got rid of it thankfully.
     
  29. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    I actually agree with all the main points of this article. And cleaning infected machines is a large part of what I do.

    I see infected computers with every major antivirus software package installed. Mostly, the damage comes from sites that attack you either directly or through fishing, or downloads that put on more than you bargain for.

    For the most part, Windows Defender combined with good adware/redirect blocking like Adblock Plus and Ghostery give my customers longer stretches between visits than any of the aftermarket AV packages.

    When I do encounter someone who really needs extra primary AV software or just demands it, I usually point to something that won't destroy the machine's performance and has some kind of reputation for not messing up other software. Bitdefender, ESET and Malwarebytes have been good in that regard over the years. Although I'm very not happy with Malwarebytes more recent changes. They've gone full ad blitz to push their extra products and they are about to go the way of all the others over the years if they aren't careful.

    Now the other other tools Malwarebytes has pulled into their family... those are still pretty good.
     
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  30. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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  31. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    Seperate Hyper V system with VMs and no security software. That's my seedy internet surfing box. My normal computer I only go to like 6 websites, only has Win Defender and host file to block. Some sites I only ever surf from work and that is "protected" with the whole McAfee suite of BS.
     
  32. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I had issues with AVG. I couldn't install Diablo III or GTA IV until I completely stopped AVG from starting on boot.
     
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  33. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC 2[H]4U

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    Is there any recent articles on the new attack vectors that Kaspersky (and some of the other big names) is still weak against?
    Not disagreeing just interested in what was tested last year.
    Thanks
     
  34. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    Really?

    https://www.exploit-db.com/platform/?p=linux

    Yes Windows does have more total exploits over time but then again that's what happens when you're on 95%+ of the personal computers in use in the world today - the "King of the Hill" always has someone trying to knock him off. But Linux, safe? A lot of the exploits that exist or appear for Linux are vastly more capable of system destruction than the ones on Windows more often than not.

    They might be less in terms of count but they pack a lot more punch when they do happen. :)
     
  35. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've seen a few comparisons here likening AV software to the bulletproof vests of a SWAT team. Problem is, many of the "AV" software products aren't a vest, they're a freakin' tank! Taking over every aspect of your computer to make you "safe" by installing AV, Email scan, firewall, spam aware, system restrictions that make Vista UAC look like the most permissive event since Woodstock!

    Give me a simple AV that does only this: - scan for viruses, notify, block, and clean. They are out there, I use them, but most of what the average user installs is like carrying a cop on your back everywhere you go so you can feel safe.
     
  36. GameLifter

    GameLifter Limp Gawd

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    I've had issues with AVG as well. When I played Crysis I would have to disable AVG just to apply changes to the graphics settings. There was also a period of time when it would frequently have UI glitches that would prevent it from completing a scan or updating. Then when I would reboot my PC to fix these issues AVG would prevent it from rebooting or greatly increase the time to reboot due to the program glitching out. These issues made me give Avast a try but I eventually went back to AVG and so far it's been fine. If AVG starts acting up again I'll try some of the AV programs mentioned here. I've always been pretty good about staying away from suspicious web sites so as long as an AV program isn't a resource hog and protects decently I'm fine with it.
     
  37. serious

    serious Limp Gawd

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    Those are not bulletproof vests my friend. At best, they are toy umbrellas that weight a ton, and I don't recall when is the last time I needed a toy umbrella.
     
  38. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    IMO they are like bulletproof glass in a non-bullet proof car that has Subaru aluminum coca cola can thickness doors. If they don't specifically target what the antivirus is protecting, you'll end up full of holes one way or another.

    The better strategy is to not drive through warzones, and you won't ever need bulletproof glass or a tank. Stick to legitimate vietnamese tranny fart porn sites, or whatever it is kids are in to these days, and stay away from deepweb ya pervs! :D
     
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  39. serious

    serious Limp Gawd

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    Add attachments/links and messages with boobs and alike into the pile and 99% of all threats will be eliminated.
     
  40. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    I stopped using AV software about a year ago on all my machines. Over the last 5 years they've got nothing aside from a couple false positives, waste of system resources if you don't go out of your way to do dumb shit on your PC IMO.