Israel to Treat Cyber Criminals as Terrorists

So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists? Self-defense is every living being's right.

Then there is the flat-out lies told by some on here about the size of Israeli foreign aid. Here's a hint - it is NOT more than all the other countries combined. Although, Israel does create more inventions and have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the Arab world combined.
 
Cyber terrorism? If i walk into a bank and rob it im not a terrorist, im a thief, same goes if i do it online. If no ones life is at risk its not terrorism.

True, but if you hack into a power grid, or water treatment facility with the intention of causing panic, or are stealing funds to finance terrorist activities you are.

Is it really surprising to you that Israel, a country surrounded by enemies on all sides, that not only tolerate, but assist terrorist groups that regularly attack them, assumes terrorism until shown otherwise?
 
So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists? Self-defense is every living being's right.

Then there is the flat-out lies told by some on here about the size of Israeli foreign aid. Here's a hint - it is NOT more than all the other countries combined. Although, Israel does create more inventions and have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the Arab world combined.


Not sure peace is possible in that part of the world. The Islamic sects, and differing ethnic groups hate each other only a tiny bit less than they do Israel. If Israel was burned to the ground tomorrow, the Islamic world would rejoice, then the day after that, go back to murdering each other over differences in religious observance and ethnicity.

Maybe it is something in the water?
 
Not sure peace is possible in that part of the world. The Islamic sects, and differing ethnic groups hate each other only a tiny bit less than they do Israel. If Israel was burned to the ground tomorrow, the Islamic world would rejoice, then the day after that, go back to murdering each other over differences in religious observance and ethnicity.

Maybe it is something in the water?

Well according to many the Twelfth Imam fell down a well over a thousand years ago, but he should be climbing out of the well any time now to kill us infidels. So... it actually is something (someone) in the water. :D

I wish I was joking about that...
 
So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists? Self-defense is every living being's right.

Then there is the flat-out lies told by some on here about the size of Israeli foreign aid. Here's a hint - it is NOT more than all the other countries combined. Although, Israel does create more inventions and have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the Arab world combined.
everyone who is religious is crazy, if they were told all the bullshit as a adult no one would believe it.
 
So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists? Self-defense is every living being's right.

Then there is the flat-out lies told by some on here about the size of Israeli foreign aid. Here's a hint - it is NOT more than all the other countries combined. Although, Israel does create more inventions and have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the Arab world combined.

The answer is simple - bigotry blinds one to all reason. It works on all fronts. The rich Arab oil sheiks and power hungry dictators and Islamic extremists foster hatred amongst the poor masses towards Israel and the West to blind them to the fact that their own leaders are robbing them blind. The religious bigots here hate Israel because it's predominantly Jewish,blinding themselves to the fact that it's one of the very few countries in that region who don't want to see the U.S. destroyed. Even Israel no doubt has it's share of hardliners whose bigotry,fostered no doubt by decades,if not centuries,of persecution,blinds them to any peaceful resolution. Bigotry breeds bigotry,it's an endless vicious cycle.
 
The answer is simple - bigotry blinds one to all reason. It works on all fronts. The rich Arab oil sheiks and power hungry dictators and Islamic extremists foster hatred amongst the poor masses towards Israel and the West to blind them to the fact that their own leaders are robbing them blind. The religious bigots here hate Israel because it's predominantly Jewish,blinding themselves to the fact that it's one of the very few countries in that region who don't want to see the U.S. destroyed. Even Israel no doubt has it's share of hardliners whose bigotry,fostered no doubt by decades,if not centuries,of persecution,blinds them to any peaceful resolution. Bigotry breeds bigotry,it's an endless vicious cycle.
Are we bigoted towards Portugal? Because last I checked, the United States does not send a ton of its highest technology weaponry and foreign aid to Portugal. Damn racists!!! :rolleyes:

That is the typical response of the "give Israel tons of our money/weapons" advocates, not to explain the return on investment, but to label anyone that opposes the policy to be anti-Israel or worse antisemetic.
 
Are we bigoted towards Portugal? Because last I checked, the United States does not send a ton of its highest technology weaponry and foreign aid to Portugal. Damn racists!!! :rolleyes:

That is the typical response of the "give Israel tons of our money/weapons" advocates, not to explain the return on investment, but to label anyone that opposes the policy to be anti-Israel or worse antisemetic.

What does that have to do with anything I said?? As far as such aid goes,I don't agree with some the decisions our government has made,especially considering that Iran,Iraq,Hussein,and even Bin Laden have been beneficiaries in the past.
 
The religious bigots here hate Israel because it's predominantly Jewish,blinding themselves to the fact that it's one of the very few countries in that region who don't want to see the U.S. destroyed.

Israel is threatening acts of war over a kid who hacked some credit card numbers. No "religious bigotry" needed to see the craziness and belligerence of that.

Maybe if the US allied itself with Israel's enemies, you could point out that Israel is the only country in the region that wants to see the US destroyed.
 
Are we bigoted towards Portugal? Because last I checked, the United States does not send a ton of its highest technology weaponry and foreign aid to Portugal. Damn racists!!! :rolleyes:

That is the typical response of the "give Israel tons of our money/weapons" advocates, not to explain the return on investment, but to label anyone that opposes the policy to be anti-Israel or worse antisemetic.

Last I checked Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hasn't stated time and time again that he wants to wipe Portugal off the map. Israel doesn't have the same luxury. I lean towards libertarian foreign policy myself, but I also include a giant asterisk to prevent holocausts. By the logic of several people here, we shouldn't have stopped Hitler.

I don't agree with all federal aide given to Israel either, but the specific amount is being greatly exaggerated. Also, don't pretend we don't get any ROI. Israel has made more advancements in modern technological weaponry and warfare than any other country besides the US, and readily shares it with our military. Israel also helps us tremendously with oil security, which is a must if the US refuses to drill more in its own territory. Iran alone has the ability to decimate the world economy by disrupting the flow of oil, and are currently threatening to do just that.

Israel is threatening acts of war over a kid who hacked some credit card numbers. No "religious bigotry" needed to see the craziness and belligerence of that.

Maybe if the US allied itself with Israel's enemies, you could point out that Israel is the only country in the region that wants to see the US destroyed.

Israel isn't threatening war over hackers, they are declaring the hacker a terrorist, not sure how you pulled declaring war out of your ass. Israel is primarily concerned about hackers that compromise their national security in an effort to aide terror financially or circumstantially.

Also, why would we ally with people who largely think and openly state that they have a religious responsibility to not only "wipe Israel off the map", but to do the same to the United States?
 
Israel is threatening acts of war over a kid who hacked some credit card numbers. No "religious bigotry" needed to see the craziness and belligerence of that.

Maybe if the US allied itself with Israel's enemies, you could point out that Israel is the only country in the region that wants to see the US destroyed.


Threatening to retaliate against someone because they attacked you is not necessarily a declaration of war. Identifying this moron and attempting to extradite him to face trial may be all the retaliation they have in mind. Do you, or anyone else, really think Israel is going to fly strike fighters to Mexico and bomb this guys house?
 
He didn't say that about Israel either ...

I am assuming you are talking about the guy who claimed Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was misquoted?

"[T]ranslators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive."

Ya... He wasn't misquoted...
 
So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists?

Actually, Iranians are Persians, and calling them Arabs is insulting to them.
 
Just to address any doubts you may still have:

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago [Israel] and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"The Zionist regime is a dried up and rotten tree which will be annihilated with one storm." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"Israel cannot continue to exist in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility without threats and aggression. If this regime stays on one inch of Palestine’s soil, it will continue its threats." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
"There is no doubt that the new wave [of attacks] in Palestine will wipe off this stigma [Israel] from the face of the Islamic world...the World without Zionism." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
"If some want to misuse the generosity of our nation, and re-examine what was previously examined, they should know the fire of the anger of the Iranian nation will be extremely burning and devastating." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world. The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Hitler
 
My theory on this has always been a simple Libertarian approach. Let them do whatever they want in regards to potential hackers. If it becomes an issue with a US citizen I doubt very highly that he would go to Israel and instead be prosecuted here at home. That said, giving aid to Israel is of no consequence when we give more aid to their enemies than them. They are the super power of the middle east and can crush any nation that threatens them including Iran. They probably would have already done so if it was not for the US hanging onto the leash. Stop all aid and let them take care of themselves, they are more than capable. Note that does not mean stop interacting with them, but we only give them 2-3% worth of their GDP per year they can easily handle the burden of no US aid.
 
My theory on this has always been a simple Libertarian approach. Let them do whatever they want in regards to potential hackers. If it becomes an issue with a US citizen I doubt very highly that he would go to Israel and instead be prosecuted here at home.

He doesn't need to go to Israel. You should know from history that for Israel and MOSAD this is not an issue.
 
More people play WoW than live in Israel. It's a tiny country with the biggest cause of instability in the region, I guess it's fun to support it. And it has nukes, amusing.

But when a muslim country such as Iran wants to get nukes? We can't have that, they'll throw nukes around the world like a drunken brawler in the bar right?! That would get them "wiped off the map" by most of the world. What they would have though is a proper deterrance from being invaded.

One thing is for certain though - Nukes are dangerous. If every country had nukes even if they don't play on using them, the world is a much more dangerous place. If the US and supporting countries truly want Iran and co to stop making nukes, we should set an example and disarm all ours as well.

Relevant timeline of nuclear detonations (the cold war part is quite disturbing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_qpx5Dxyo
 
He didn't say that about Israel either ...

seriously? Why do some people want to ignore confirmed facts to go out of their way just to support these terrorist countries? Its like a liberal handicap or something.
 
Seems a bit heavy handed, unless of course the hackers were hacking infrastructure vital to daily operation.
 
I am assuming you are talking about the guy who claimed Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was misquoted?

"[T]ranslators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive."

Ya... He wasn't misquoted...

Context is everything. If he were claiming that he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, in the context of that speech, he would have also been claiming to wipe Iran off the map.

Ahmadinejad was quoting Khomeini, who himself was talking about seemingly invincible REGIMES, NOT COUNTRIES, which had "disappeared from the pages of time". He spoke about how the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussein, and the regime occupying Israel. The Farsi word for MAP was never part of the quote, nor is "wiped from the map" a phrase which is used by those who speak Farsi.
 
I does the story of Israel being a dick over a kid hacking credit card numbers turn into a debate on middle-east politics?

By the logic of several people here, we shouldn't have stopped Hitler.

Actually, we shouldn't have. We should have let Hitler fight it out with the Communists and maybe avoided decades of cold war, proxy wars, and Communist purges. Apologist far war always insist that the world would be a worse place without another war.

Israel also helps us tremendously with oil security,

Israel is the cause of middle-east instability and uncertainty which contributes to high oil costs. High oil prices: another way that our "ally" Israel bleeds our economy.

Israel isn't threatening war over hackers, they are declaring the hacker a terrorist, not sure how you pulled declaring war out of your ass.

As a matter of fact, Israel has been known to send Death Squads into other countries to assassinate suspected terrorists. Israel has dropped bombs to kill terrorists. When Israel says it plans to treat hackers like terrorists, it means acts of violence in violation of the sovereignty of other nations. Use your brains. Totally lacking from Israel's remarks is any reference to legal and diplomatic tools and recourse.

No, "prosecuted to the full extent of the law" rhetoric coming from Israel because Israel is a violent and rogue nation. And, contrary to some of the claims of its defenders, it's not the bigots who criticize Israel, it's the bigots who support Israel. I have no religious agenda, one way or another. Both Israelis and Arabs are just Semites to me. But, supporters of Israel do have religious agenda.

Israel is primarily concerned about hackers that compromise their national security in an effort to aide terror financially or circumstantially.

As soon as those Credit Card numbers were discovered to have been stolen, they were all deactivated. Little harm done beyond some inconvenience to the Credit Card holders. And, the hackers did Israel a favor by exposing a vulnerability that Israel can now patch before those terrorists who haunt your dreams finds those vulnerabilities.

Also, why would we ally with people who largely think and openly state that they have a religious responsibility to not only "wipe Israel off the map", but to do the same to the United States?

Such hypocrisy. How many times have American leaders made threats against (or attacked!!!!) Arab countries? Modern Iran has never started a war, not is it in any position to start a war with Israel. Besides, by now you know, Iran's remark was about the regime.

Israel should learn to become a civilized country. And, they'd have to if the US were not an enabler.
 
Cyber terrorism? If i walk into a bank and rob it im not a terrorist, im a thief, same goes if i do it online. If no ones life is at risk its not terrorism.

Tom Clancy thinks bank robbers are terrorists in his Rainbow Six novels. I happen to agree.

Don't most Americans call Bonnie and Clyde and Ratliff and John Dillinger terrorists? I believe they do.
 
I does the story of Israel being a dick over a kid hacking credit card numbers turn into a debate on middle-east politics?



Actually, we shouldn't have. We should have let Hitler fight it out with the Communists and maybe avoided decades of cold war, proxy wars, and Communist purges. Apologist far war always insist that the world would be a worse place without another war.



Israel is the cause of middle-east instability and uncertainty which contributes to high oil costs. High oil prices: another way that our "ally" Israel bleeds our economy.



As a matter of fact, Israel has been known to send Death Squads into other countries to assassinate suspected terrorists. Israel has dropped bombs to kill terrorists. When Israel says it plans to treat hackers like terrorists, it means acts of violence in violation of the sovereignty of other nations. Use your brains. Totally lacking from Israel's remarks is any reference to legal and diplomatic tools and recourse.

No, "prosecuted to the full extent of the law" rhetoric coming from Israel because Israel is a violent and rogue nation. And, contrary to some of the claims of its defenders, it's not the bigots who criticize Israel, it's the bigots who support Israel. I have no religious agenda, one way or another. Both Israelis and Arabs are just Semites to me. But, supporters of Israel do have religious agenda.



As soon as those Credit Card numbers were discovered to have been stolen, they were all deactivated. Little harm done beyond some inconvenience to the Credit Card holders. And, the hackers did Israel a favor by exposing a vulnerability that Israel can now patch before those terrorists who haunt your dreams finds those vulnerabilities.



Such hypocrisy. How many times have American leaders made threats against (or attacked!!!!) Arab countries? Modern Iran has never started a war, not is it in any position to start a war with Israel. Besides, by now you know, Iran's remark was about the regime.

Israel should learn to become a civilized country. And, they'd have to if the US were not an enabler.

Finally, somebody with a brain and morals. Glad to see this post, brother.
 
Israel, just as any other country, is full of decent people ruled by assholes. Don't blame israelis, blame the assholes.
Israel is an apartheid state that has mandatory service for men and women alike. The people do it, it's on them as much as the government.

It amazes me how many people hate Israel. Anytime Israel is mentioned in a story all the haters come out. Only about 1,000,000,000 people want to wipe them off the face of the earth. They are only surrounded by hostile countries. I would say an aggressive military strategy is necessary to stay in existence. They have a zero tolerance policy. You might not agree with everything they've done, but everything they do is in the interests of self defense.
Because Israel is a terrorist state. The entire Middle East and the rest of the world(excluding America and possibly Britain) wouldn't see them unfavorably if they hadn't taken the Palestinian's homeland by force, created an apartheid state, and started the perpetual genocide of the Palestinian people by killing civilians, in particular, children.
P.S. it's not self-defense when you're the instigator, aggressor and the one that's oppressing.

Yeah fuck those guys for wanting to protect themselves in some way

Its not like they live in a country the size of Massachusetts, yet are surrounded by enemies for thousands of miles on all sides, who publicly call for their annihilation.

Its not like they are within range of all sorts of attacks, whether its militia charging their walls, boats in their harbor, or long ranged missiles pointed at them. They probably dont need to keep a high level of tech security.

And I mean europe and the US still have their backs, and are siding with them over terrorists

so really, what do they have to worry about?
If Israel had taken it upon themselves to talk to the Arabs rather than take land by force and started a genocidal apartheid state, they wouldn't be hated.

Constant war zone?
Sorry but you're just ignorant. I can bet my life you've never been there, because if you did, you would never write such a thing.
You also seem to have no clue about Israel's military force.
So one minute it's self defense, the next minute there's no threat in Israel. This only furthers the point that Israel is the true terrorist state of the Middle East.

I really don't want to get into the religious hysteria that crops up every time Israel is involved in a story. The fact is they are one small country surrounded by many others who would love to see them destroyed. What we went through on 9/11,they have faced for decades. Cyber crime is no joke,it can be a viable weapon in the hands of terrorist or dictatorships like China. Leaving out the political aspects,it can disrupt the economy and destroy peoples lives. In my opinion,we need to take a much harder line on cyber crime of any kind ourselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does International Rule not state that a people have the right to fight their occupiers? Not that I support such acts as car bombs, but then, those acts are not acts of revolution, but of despair.
The reality of the situation is this: European Zionists went to Palestine, took land by force with the aid of the British, created an apartheid state and have been waging a war on Palestinian civilians(predominately children) since then.

Valid points. Now if you can picture the USA and Israel as one nation then you will also understand why USA treatment towards Israelis is so, shall we say so lopsided. Look who the USA power brokers are, and their personal relationship with Israel, and the rest of the puzzle all falls into place.
YUP.

So interesting to see all the Israel haters on here who apparently have no problem with the mass murderers in Iran and Syria. If Israel is crazy, then what are the Arabs and Islamists? Self-defense is every living being's right.

Then there is the flat-out lies told by some on here about the size of Israeli foreign aid. Here's a hint - it is NOT more than all the other countries combined. Although, Israel does create more inventions and have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the Arab world combined.
The reality of the situation is this: America/Britain funds the overthrow of governments it does not find to be beneficial, through force. America was supplying Iraq(after overthrowing the Iranian DEMOCRACY for oil, which led it's current state of affairs) with chemical and biological weapons/materials which Saddam used to annihilate the Kurds. After this, America doubled Iraq's subsidy.
A simple search will show you that America has been involved in a war every year since its inception.

Not sure peace is possible in that part of the world. The Islamic sects, and differing ethnic groups hate each other only a tiny bit less than they do Israel. If Israel was burned to the ground tomorrow, the Islamic world would rejoice, then the day after that, go back to murdering each other over differences in religious observance and ethnicity.

Maybe it is something in the water?
I agree. I think it comes from despair, and hidden hands which fuel such hatred.

everyone who is religious is crazy, if they were told all the bullshit as a adult no one would believe it.
I disagree. There are three types of "religious" people in the world: People that will use any means to their end(i.e. using religion), people that blindly follow without a single thought of their own, and people that think for themselves. The first are those that have a will to power, the second: the majority of people on this Earth, and finally, the third: the minority.
To totally disregard those that seek truth and equality is to kill a righteous movement.

Just to address any doubts you may still have:
Do you think it okay for every single Israeli Prime Minister, since its inception, to call the Palestinians inhuman, insects and beasts to justify taking the Palestinian homeland? Or is that different, to you?
 
Actually, scratch that, a truer point is this: The Palestinians whose homes were on that land would disagree.
 
Would you also say there isn't an American homeland?

Their is right now. If someone takes it by force, same as we did, same as the the jews took the holy lands the first time, same as the muslims took them from the jews, same as the jews purchased, and were given, and took the holy lands back, it will not be anymore.
 
Right now, Americans are busy selling America off to China. This may not be our homeland in a few generations.
 
By the logic of several people here, we shouldn't have stopped Hitler.

Actually, we shouldn't have. We should have let Hitler fight it out with the Communists and maybe avoided decades of cold war, proxy wars, and Communist purges. Apologist far war always insist that the world would be a worse place without another war.

Wow. Utterly astonishing what some people will say from behind the safety of internet anonymity.
 
If Israel had taken it upon themselves to talk to the Arabs rather than take land by force and started a genocidal apartheid state, they wouldn't be hated.

I've already gotten an infraction for pointing out what a douchebag someone was for selling newly-bought 7970s in the FS forum for 800 bucks a pop, so I'm really containing myself here.

Israel didn't take any land by force. Britain took it as the spoils of war following the end of WW1 and the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Britain held onto the land for nearly 30 years while they determined what should be done with it. Eventually the newly-formed United Nations set up Israel as a homeland for displaced Jews following the Holocaust. The day after Israel's independence was announced, the entire Middle East invaded, determined to kill every Jew in the place, much as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem would have liked, being best buds with Hitler.

And what you're calling a genocidal apartheid state happens to be the region in the Middle East where Palestinians have the most rights, such as voting rights to determine Israeli policy. Why hasn't Jordan given as many rights to the 2,000,000 Palestinian refugees within their borders, which, by the way, is a country about 40 times the land mass of Israel? Why has Egypt built a wall to keep out the Gazans if they care so much about the Palestinians? If Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could have expelled every Palestinian during one of the many conflicts of the last 65 years, constantly initiated by other countries in the region whose sole fetish seems to be the completion of the Final Solution. They haven't. Instead, they've offered the Palestinians more citizenship than any country in the Middle East, including far more than their previous Ottoman overlords ever considered giving to them.

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that while Israel is far from a perfect state, and that the relationship between Israel and the USA needs serious reform, the vast majority of those who oppose Israel do so because they consider Jews to be vermin that should be exterminated, but those in Western countries rarely have the balls to admit it.
 
Wow. Utterly astonishing what some people will say from behind the safety of internet anonymity.

Can you imagine how much longer the war would have gone on and how many more American soldiers would have died if we had allowed Germany to become further entrenched? The truth is we should have gotten involved before Pearl Harbor,that attack put us behind before we even got started. I don't know what motivates statements like that,but it makes it hard to take threads like this seriously.
 
Can you imagine how much longer the war would have gone on and how many more American soldiers would have died if we had allowed Germany to become further entrenched? The truth is we should have gotten involved before Pearl Harbor,that attack put us behind before we even got started. I don't know what motivates statements like that,but it makes it hard to take threads like this seriously.

It turned out Stalin was responsible for a much higher death toll than Hitler.
 
It turned out Stalin was responsible for a much higher death toll than Hitler.

One tyrant kills more than another, therefore the lesser tyrant should be left to his machinations?

Would it have turned out that Stalin was responsible for a much higher death toll if Hitler had continued unimpeded?
 
yes actually, stalin killed people throughout his reign, regardless of who they were, or their religious background.

hitler killed a bunch of folks, but he seemed to have targets.

In the grand scheme, I think Stalin was the more evil of the two, I took a pretty awesome class on that was only about comparing the two guys.
 
Back
Top