ISPs Say Your Web Browsing and App Usage History Isn’t “Sensitive”

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    A lobbyist group has issued a statement against those who are trying to defend the previously proposed opt-in rule, which requires ISPs to get consent before sharing sensitive customer information, but I am not sure why they bothered since the current FCC makeup seems set on eliminating them regardless. Consumer advocates have tried to argue the obvious: browsing history is just as sensitive as call and video viewing history.

    "To justify diverging from the FTC's framework and defining Web browsing history as 'sensitive,' the commission and the [privacy rule supporters] both cherry-picked evidence in an attempt to show that ISPs have unique and comprehensive access to consumers' online information," CTIA wrote. "As the full record shows, however, this is simply not true. Indeed, even a prominent privacy advocacy organization asserted that it is 'obvious that the more substantial threats for consumers are not ISPs,' but rather other large edge providers."
     
  2. azuza001

    azuza001 Gawd

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    Why don't they ask us, their customers, if we feel our information is sensitive or not? Oh yeah, because they already know what we would say. Between corporate greed and political corruption it's no wonder why people are so upset and angry about the country and what way it's heading. Everyone is so upset it does not matter if your pro trump or anti trump, we just feel we are being attacked from all sides with little to hold on to. And it is not like we have many options now. Didn't like trump or hillary? Guess you are fucked. Don't like how your isp wants to sell you as information for more money? The only other choice you have wants to do it to so enjoy no net. What's that? You can't even get a job at Walmart with out an Internet connection to put in the application? Well, make your choice then.
     
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  3. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    Easy plugsin to use to reduce ISP spyaga


    HTTPS Everywhere

    https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    Forces more site to HTTPS to keep site content encrypted

    DNScrypt
    https://www.dnscrypt.org/
    Encrypts your DNS request so ISP 'cant look into those eithere.


    Both are a onetime install and forget solutions so no hazzle to deal wit on a daily basis. You can even install in on your old mothers Computer.
    No as good as a real VPN but getting close and its free
     
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  4. dr_drift

    dr_drift Limp Gawd

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    The data that the ISPs are collecting is so useless and incomplete that they can find partners to pay millions for it? Strange how that works. It's almost as if that data were the opposite of worthless.

    I thought I'd drink bleach before I said I missed Obama, but I do miss his FCC.
     
  5. cortexodus

    cortexodus [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because we're not their customers anymore, we're their resource, which they mine, sell, and ship to their actual customers: Other businesses.
     
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  6. trparky

    trparky Limp Gawd

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    Some say that if you're on the public Internet you've already given up your privacy. Google already knows more about you than you know about yourself.
     
  7. vr.

    vr. 2[H]4U

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    How is it less than worthless? There is a subscriber name on the account. At the very minimum the ISP can tie that name to an IP and say this subscriber spends x amount of time on whatever given websites.
    Nobody said they needed to break it out further by household member to sell it. But if they're going so far as to sell this, who's to say they're not doing further traffic inspection already.
     
  8. PeaKr

    PeaKr Limp Gawd

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    That right there is the grand prize, and ad injection.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. leathco016

    leathco016 n00bie

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    Obviously the data is very sensitive. Lets say I ordered some adult oriented content or devices from a web store. Lets than say that those items began being advertised to me on other pages, during my regular browsing. That could be a very embarrassing moment if one is using the computer around other family members, or if a different family member is using the computer. The worst part is that this already happens.
     
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  10. Aireoth

    Aireoth Limp Gawd

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    Sweet!

    Question from the less than net savvy but technically adept, where would i start to setup a vpn. Tried google but With my knowledge on vpns it is to easy to pick the wrong solution.
     
  11. dr_drift

    dr_drift Limp Gawd

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    "vr., post: 1042889479, member: 213837"]How is it less than worthless? There is a subscriber name on the account. At the very minimum the ISP can tie that name to an IP and say this subscriber spends x amount of time on whatever given websites.
    Nobody said they needed to break it out further by household member to sell it. But if they're going so far as to sell this, who's to say they're not doing further traffic inspection already.[/QUOTE]

    That was tongue-in-cheek, because of the arguments from the ISPs as described in the article:

    They're saying that there are much bigger players out there, and we shouldn't go after the poor little ISPs who don't have "comprehensive access to consumers' information." Sounds like BS to me.
     
  12. vr.

    vr. 2[H]4U

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    On one hand, I hope some enterprising startup ISP's surface that offer non-invasive traffic through them. They could partner with existing VPN providers. The reality is, our overbearing government will move to make it an operating requirement that all "net" traffic be 100% inspected.

    We need a few PTSD cases argued in the courts where this kind of advertising gets deemed as domestic terrorism and outlawed. Yes this concept is as ridiculously outlandish as the McDonald's hot coffee case when it first appeared so maybe, *maybe* it could get traction and win.
     
  13. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot Gawd

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    Is Verizon a party to this attempt to roll back privacy? If so, is this a back door way to get out of buying Yahoo? Since Yahoo IS one of the large edge providers deemed to be a collector of private information. Otherwise, they may be arguing that Verizon needs to be subject to the privacy rules once they own Yahoo.
     
  14. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm the wrong one to ask. due to not finding a VPN thats is free to use and does not log data. im not using one currently.
    I'm in a pretty bad money spot this year :(
     
  15. Aireoth

    Aireoth Limp Gawd

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    Sorry to hear that, shaping up that way here too, glad i splurged on my hardware last year, its gonna need to last me a bit.
     
  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    So, What are some decent high speed VPN services with a demonstrated history of maintaining privacy?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  17. MrBonk

    MrBonk n00bie

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    Didn't Trump say no more lobbying?

    Hope he does something about this.

    If my web browsing history isn't private or sensitive. Then it shouldn't be illegal to hack into and browse the same information for anyone anywhere right? Like the heads of these lobby jerk offs or ISP companies so you can see what they are really up to.

    If we have no right to privacy as consumers. No one should. Not even corporations.
     
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  18. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is actually why this is happening. Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, and everyone can do this all they want. You look up one thing online and Amazon uses that to target ads to you and sell that information all they want. You email somebody about a trip and Google will start sell that information to start giving you ads about vacation packages. It is 100% ok for everyone other than your ISP to do this without your permission.

    There is a major difference though. All the other people only know bits and pieces. Your ISP knows all. So that is slightly on par with insider trading. I know all types of information about our customers for quality of service reasons. I know how much bandwidth they use. I know how much traffic we have going to Netflix and other services. From that information we have been able to setup peering agreements with Google, Sony for PSN, Netflix and a few others based on traffic patterns showing it made sense to peer to ensure fewer hops. With that and other traffic I could do bad things if desired (which personally I don't care about anything other than ensuring our customers have the best service I can offer). All because I have far more information to tie back together that Google and the others might have. So I am fine with the current limits on ISPs.
     
  19. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh you sweet summer child lol.

    Came as no surprise to anyone that's been paying attention really, and most certainly just the tip of the iceberg.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  20. TordanGow

    TordanGow [H]Lite

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    They can have fun trying to inject on my VPN.

    I started routing all of my traffic to free countries where this type of shit isn't allowed. Funny, people used t want to come here for opportunity and freedom, now many of us can't wait to digitally leave.
     
  21. tetris42

    tetris42 2[H]4U

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    He did, and Hillary said she would tell Wall Street to cut it out. Politicians are trustworthy people.

    You don't understand, corporations have lots of money.
     
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  22. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Current laws and regulations disagree with you. NVidia can gather whatever info they want and sell it to who they want as you agreed to that by purchasing and installing their hardware and software. Same for everyone else who isn't your ISP. That part is allowed now and isn't being changed.
     
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  23. Monkey God

    Monkey God [H]ardness Supreme

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    Who cares if its sensitive or not. Its none of their business - any more its the water providers business whether I use water in my home to water my plants or wash my ass. Its not the power companies business whether I run a homelab or my g/f runs her hairdryer for an hour a day. All that should matter is that I am not breaking anything and I pay my fucking bill. Anything else - none of their fucking business.
     
  24. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They care because they can't sell that information now. AT&T came out a few months back saying let us sell your data and you will save a few dollars a month. They want to be able to sell your name, address and phone number to people to spam you. They want to be able to sell your email address. They want to be able to sell your surfing habits for ads. If there wasn't a market for that stuff they wouldn't care. But they see how much Facebook, Google and the rest are making per year from selling your info and don't like that they have the same info and can't sell it also to make money like that.
     
  25. Monkey God

    Monkey God [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have no problem with them asking and people saying yes. I have a problem with them saying all our customers data is up for sale whether our customers want it sold or not. That's bullshit, period. I've gotten to the point now at home I just run through a VPN and private browsing all the time just because fuck them.
     
  26. DocSavage

    DocSavage 2[H]4U

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    It wasn't even just a few dollars. It was $30/month.