Is Windows 10 20H2 the worst windows yet?

techie81

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Do you have any specific claim to make, or just tapping into your psychic powers?
Microsoft's emphasis on cloud computing and online account requirements. This is definitely the direction we're going.
 

Zedicus

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why is randomly trying to remember the app name or website, or finding the optical disk in whatever folder i left it in, the preferred way to install apps for windows users?

EVERYTHING ELSE from Steam, Epic, Android, IOS, OSX, and linux for like 20 years, has all been some form of 'app store'.

this is one of the arguments that gets me in the soul when someone says they don't like linux because it is hard to use. Install any popular distro and point and click every office app, driver, etc you need. install windows, track down 8 drivers, look for your office key, crap i forgot some ZIP app, adobe reader, is flash on windows still a thing? better grab ccleaner because even though i did a clean install it is already bloated... *sigh*
 
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GotNoRice

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why is randomly trying to remember the app name or website, or finding the optical disk in whatever folder i left it in, the preferred way to install apps for windows users?

If you can't even remember the name of the program/app you are trying to install, you have bigger issues than worrying about where it comes from. Most new windows computers don't even have an optical drive anymore, so aside from an obscure old program, no one is installing anything via optical media at this point.

It's preferred because there is no intermediary. There doesn't need to be an intermediary. You (the user) downloads it directly from the company that created the program/app. No app store to decide that they deserve a 30% cut of any money that changes hands. No app store that gets to decide which programs I should be allowed to install based on their motivations which are likely different than mine.

EVERYTHING ELSE from Steam, Epic, Android, IOS, OSX, and linux for like 20 years, has all been some form of 'app store'.

And if one of those app stores decides to remove an app or game, what recourse do you have? None. The convenience is nice, but ultimately you are handing over control to someone other than yourself. That's what it's about.

If you REALLY need the assistance of an app store, like a preschool teacher holding the hand of a child as they walk down the stairs, then Microsoft has an app store all ready for you to use if you want to...

install windows, track down 8 drivers

Windows 10 will install almost every driver automatically. The ability to potentially install newer drivers manually, if you want to, is a good thing, not a bad thing.

look for your office key, crap i forgot some ZIP app, adobe reader, is flash on windows still a thing?

Windows 10 can open ZIP files and read PDF files natively, without installing anything else. No, flash is no longer a thing, unless you live in China.

better grab ccleaner because even though i did a clean install it is already bloated... *sigh*

Pretty much every gripe about windows you listed sounds like you are talking about the Windows XP era or prior. Have you actually used a modern version of Windows?
 

pendragon1

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this is one of the arguments that gets me in the soul when someone says they don't like linux because it is hard to use. Install any popular distro and point and click every office app, driver, etc you need. install windows, track down 8 drivers, look for your office key, crap i forgot some ZIP app, adobe reader, is flash on windows still a thing? better grab ccleaner because even though i did a clean install it is already bloated... *sigh*
install windows, run windows update until it says there is nothing left, zip files are natively supported, pdfs are native to edge, flash is dead, period, what bloat, defender, links to office online? so bloated... sigh.
 

SuperSubZero

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...and that's a good thing? That's a great argument against windows 10 in my mind.
To each their own. On my personal devices I love having my settings sync'd across everything and I like a common shared pool of storage across them which is all cloud and has no setup. In an enterprise environment it might sound bad, but we actually get a lot of requests for OneDrive, for both storage as well as collaboration. We would be keen to it but my IT Security team says they don't have enough visibility so it's restricted currently. That's really the only complaint anyone has about it.
There aren't any modifications to the OS which would cause that ( at least from me, might be from the vendor ). You missed the part, however, where there are two different ways to modify programs, which apparently work differently. That's unique to windows 10, and frankly ridiculous.
I don't "modify programs"... I install or occasionally uninstall. Every desktop app I install can also be uninstalled from the Settings Apps panel.
 

tived

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Late to the party here, looking at the OP, with 1000’s messages and many years spent here I am a little surprised to hear that Windows 10 is the worst MS OS ever.

all the OS’s have some issues, in particular if you stray of the mainstream equipment list, one reason is a lot easier to deal with is that the choices in hardware are relatively limited, therefor less to support. But with windows you have an almost infinite combination of hardware you can put together in a system.

I personally think Windows 10 has been great in the past 10 years or so it’s been around. It installs flawless on my 2010 vintage dual process system, with multiple raid controllers. Long after EVGA stopped supporting the mobo

my new Threadripper is just smooth, if not, it has more to do with the guy sitting in the chair in front of it.... oohhh that’s me!

each to their own, not trying to convince you to think otherwise jut very surprised 🤔😉

good luck

H
 

grasshoppa

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I don't "modify programs"... I install or occasionally uninstall. Every desktop app I install can also be uninstalled from the Settings Apps panel.
"Modify" in the ability to add/remove programs, so you do. There's the new w10 "Apps" way, and the old "Uninstall a program" applet way. The "Apps" way has been hit or miss for me, while the old "Uninstall a program" method works. ie: two different ways to modify programs, which work differently.

And it's ridiculous.
 

Zedicus

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install windows, run windows update until it says there is nothing left, zip files are natively supported, pdfs are native to edge, flash is dead, period, what bloat, defender, links to office online? so bloated... sigh.
Windows update installed solitare, 3 xbox connect apps, some 'my phone' app, trials of all the office apps, 3 different image editors, and not correct chipset or video drivers, usb3, sound. The built in zip support is just off of use less, the built in pdf does not allow internal fillable forms to function.

At least with WDS and group policy we can alter a lot of that in deployment.
 

pendragon1

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Windows update installed solitare, 3 xbox connect apps, some 'my phone' app, trials of all the office apps, 3 different image editors, and not correct chipset or video drivers, usb3, sound. The built in zip support is just off of use less, the built in pdf does not allow internal fillable forms to function.

At least with WDS and group policy we can alter a lot of that in deployment.
thats not really bloat as it doesnt affect performance, sure its things you dont want but lots of people so...
you can unzip, zip, merge all the basics most need.
pdfs?
1616544289422.png


WDS? no need for this stuff.
 

ManofGod

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install windows, run windows update until it says there is nothing left, zip files are natively supported, pdfs are native to edge, flash is dead, period, what bloat, defender, links to office online? so bloated... sigh.

And run Chris Titus Tech's debloat scripts to bring Windows 10 more under your control and so it behaves, where as before, it really does not.
 

ThreeDee

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from an IT point of view deploying to 10's of to 100's of computers .. I couldn't tell yuh .. but as an IT wannabe guy overseeing my 3 PC's and a laptop with Windows 10 ( and a TrueNAS box) thinking I'm pretty darn cool .. Windows 10 has been by far one of the easiest to "maintain" and use .. anything I throw it on, old or new .. just works. I tried going straight Linux years ago .. but couldn't play my TF2, Counter Strike Source, or Monster Truck Madness 2 on it .. and my wife hated OpenOffice at the time .. so back to Windows I went ..

Linux for desktop has come a long way since then though .. but gosh darn it .. Windows 10 is just so darn easy
 

vick1000

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There is nothing that prevents me from installing anything I want to on my Windows computer, without ever touching an app store or other "central repository" (which only contain "approved" apps/programs).
Well, I have run into some apps that cannot be found outside the Microsoft Store, but I think you can still access the Store from a browser.
 

Mazzspeed

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There is nothing that prevents me from installing anything I want to on my Windows computer, without ever touching an app store or other "central repository" (which only contain "approved" apps/programs).
Exactly.

Respectfully, I think the point has flown over your head.
 

Mazzspeed

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Printers, yes but, I found that at least with HP scanners, you have to install the HP software for it to work.

Regarding HP printers under Windows: I've found pure luck, possibly based on divine intervention often works.

Has anyone watched Office Space where they smash that fax machine? I've been close regarding HP printers under Windows....
 

pendragon1

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Regarding HP printers under Windows: I've found pure luck, possibly based on divine intervention often works.

Has anyone watched Office Space where they smash that fax machine? I've been close regarding HP printers under Windows....
hp's new universal drivers mostly took care of that. yeah they dropped some 15-20+ year old units, but its time to replace those....
 

Aireoth

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People use Android.

In fact: Globally, Android is the most popular OS in use, surpassing Windows. Yet it suffers a minuscule fraction of the Malware, PUP, Trojan, cryptolocker, ransomware and virus infections that are experienced under the Windows platform.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

Windows Malware infections in the first quarter of 2020 made up 83.45% of all infections, while Android made up only 3.24%. Basically that blows the idea of security simply via obscurity totally out of the water. Whats more, it's totally plausible to compare desktop to mobile operating systems when they're both outstanding attack vectors and Microsoft themselves have deliberately done their best to make their operating system a mobile and desktop solution.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/680943/malware-os-distribution/

If modern problems require modern solutions, it's obvious that solution isn't Windows in it's current form. As an individual that works on Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa (average user) Windows based devices - I'd estimate at least 75% of all machines are infected with some form of Malware. Of that 75%, I'd estimate that 60% of those users installed the Malware manually on their machines (known as PUP's) - These PUP's then create back doors to download even more Malware on the victim's Windows machine.

It's simply too easy to install random .msi installers under the Windows platform and the 'solutions' are simply failing at holding back the ocean.

Phone OS's need not apply.
 

ManofGod

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Phone OS's need not apply.

As soon as the Pine Phone (Linux) reaches the point where in can be a daily driver, that is where I will be. For the moment, I pruned as much off the Android phone as I could and do not use it for much, at all. (Email, text, web browsing and Garmin watch function.) I do not sign into Google, at all, do not use Android Auto, and do not care for a tracking device in my pocket.
 

GoldenTiger

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As soon as the Pine Phone (Linux) reaches the point where in can be a daily driver, that is where I will be. For the moment, I pruned as much off the Android phone as I could and do not use it for much, at all. (Email, text, web browsing and Garmin watch function.) I do not sign into Google, at all, do not use Android Auto, and do not care for a tracking device in my pocket.
Shame they track you just the same as if you had logged in or not including location ;). Far worse than Microsoft's stuff.
 

mvmiller12

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Just gonna throw this out there, but they are gonna have to pry my Lumia 950XL from my cold dead fingers...
 

Mazzspeed

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hp's new universal drivers mostly took care of that. yeah they dropped some 15-20+ year old units, but its time to replace those....

Thank Christ!

HP print drivers are seriously major sources of anxiety. Followed closely by Canon.
 

Mazzspeed

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As soon as the Pine Phone (Linux) reaches the point where in can be a daily driver, that is where I will be. For the moment, I pruned as much off the Android phone as I could and do not use it for much, at all. (Email, text, web browsing and Garmin watch function.) I do not sign into Google, at all, do not use Android Auto, and do not care for a tracking device in my pocket.

You should install an AOSP ROM without Gapps. Take Gapps off the device, and it's a basic phone with simple functionality, but no app store and no Google spyware.
 

ManofGod

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Nice Work on the graphics, Tell us why you do not like Windows 10 - you may have a very valid reason, in the end you choose what OS you want to use.

not liking or liking is your choice - expect people to have a difference in opinion. You may have a very different level of expertise and experience?

Do not forget, there are objective, factual reasons to choose an OS that go beyond opinion. Now, you can ignore those facts and use something simply because but, that is subjective at that point.
 

cjcox

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Nice Work on the graphics, Tell us why you do not like Windows 10 - you may have a very valid reason, in the end you choose what OS you want to use.

not liking or liking is your choice - expect people to have a difference in opinion. You may have a very different level of expertise and experience?
Are you asking me to add those questions? I was strictly going for humor (last dialog especially). Edit: just spelling it out, look at the text on the buttons... brings back some memories.
 

B00nie

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from an IT point of view deploying to 10's of to 100's of computers .. I couldn't tell yuh .. but as an IT wannabe guy overseeing my 3 PC's and a laptop with Windows 10 ( and a TrueNAS box) thinking I'm pretty darn cool .. Windows 10 has been by far one of the easiest to "maintain" and use .. anything I throw it on, old or new .. just works. I tried going straight Linux years ago .. but couldn't play my TF2, Counter Strike Source, or Monster Truck Madness 2 on it .. and my wife hated OpenOffice at the time .. so back to Windows I went ..

Linux for desktop has come a long way since then though .. but gosh darn it .. Windows 10 is just so darn easy
It's also easy to get owned while using it. I don't trust any Windows machine. About 90% of non-corporate Windowses I've examined have been infected with various forms of PuPs, malware or even viruses without the user realizing. They just complain that Windows is slow.
 

Shoganai

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It's also easy to get owned while using it. I don't trust any Windows machine. About 90% of non-corporate Windowses I've examined have been infected with various forms of PuPs, malware or even viruses without the user realizing. They just complain that Windows is slow.
I completely trust my machine, but I certainly don't trust anyone else's because yeah ... like 90% of them are full of garbage.
 

ThreeDee

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It's also easy to get owned while using it. I don't trust any Windows machine. About 90% of non-corporate Windowses I've examined have been infected with various forms of PuPs, malware or even viruses without the user realizing. They just complain that Windows is slow.
I can't remember the last time I've been infected with anything ..PUP's included .. even my wife's rig and her being on Facebook all the time .. Ublock Origin in browsers and free OpenDNS account with server settings in my edgerouter w/Windows Defender (Ghostery on wife's rig) .. so not sure what you mean by getting owned .. ?

I get owned in Hunt:Showdown all the time though .. :cautious:
 

Mazzspeed

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I can't remember the last time I've been infected with anything ..PUP's included .. even my wife's rig and her being on Facebook all the time .. Ublock Origin in browsers and free OpenDNS account with server settings in my edgerouter w/Windows Defender (Ghostery on wife's rig) .. so not sure what you mean by getting owned .. ?

I get owned in Hunt:Showdown all the time though .. :cautious:
Well, considering you can run ublock, Ghostery and an Edgerouter (shudder, I'd personally use a router of my own making based on Linux built to my specifications) on a Linux machine - They're pretty much moot points.

So essentially, you think Windows Defender is watertight when it comes to holding back the ocean. Because when you consider the numbers: The rate that Malware, Trojans, Cryptolockers, Ransomware, Viruses and PuP's (which is usually the way most of these infections seem to get on Windows machines in the first place due to the Windows user's 'freedom' to install anything the user desires - Good or bad) the odds really aren't stacked in your favor in relation to not getting infected.

I personally prefer the odds stacked in my favor.

I come across many users in my line of work that state their Windows machine isn't infected - They're the machine's that are usually the most infected.
 

B00nie

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Well, considering you can run ublock, Ghostery and an Edgerouter (shudder, I'd personally use a router of my own making based on Linux built to my specifications) on a Linux machine - They're pretty much moot points.

So essentially, you think Windows Defender is watertight when it comes to holding back the ocean. Because when you consider the numbers: The rate that Malware, Trojans, Cryptolockers, Ransomware, Viruses and PuP's (which is usually the way most of these infections seem to get on Windows machines in the first place due to the Windows user's 'freedom' to install anything the user desires - Good or bad) the odds really aren't stacked in your favor in relation to not getting infected.

I personally prefer the odds stacked in my favor.

I come across many users in my line of work that state their Windows machine isn't infected - They're the machine's that are usually the most infected.
It has to be said that there has been a lot of improvement. The W10 laptop I set up to my aunt as an experiment is still running and she hasn't called me in 1 year to fix anything on it. So either she uses it very little or Windows has improved in security. She probably isn't on a mass mailing list like my mother is/was. Those are like hoovers for exploits.
 

ThreeDee

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Well, considering you can run ublock, Ghostery and an Edgerouter (shudder, I'd personally use a router of my own making based on Linux built to my specifications) on a Linux machine - They're pretty much moot points.

So essentially, you think Windows Defender is watertight when it comes to holding back the ocean. Because when you consider the numbers: The rate that Malware, Trojans, Cryptolockers, Ransomware, Viruses and PuP's (which is usually the way most of these infections seem to get on Windows machines in the first place due to the Windows user's 'freedom' to install anything the user desires - Good or bad) the odds really aren't stacked in your favor in relation to not getting infected.

I personally prefer the odds stacked in my favor.

I come across many users in my line of work that state their Windows machine isn't infected - They're the machine's that are usually the most infected.
lol .. ok .. air seems to be a little thin for you way up there on that horse :)
 
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