Is Windows 10 20H2 the worst windows yet?

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
he doesnt. all this linux linux linux talk from him and he uses a mac and has to google linux problems. lol. also, not sure of anywhere except offline stand alone specialty productions systems that only yearly updating is ok.
You have no clue of what you're talking about. Linux has a thing called 'unattended upgrades' which take care of security updates without the user intervening with it. Then, it being a desktop install, other kind of upgrades are offered to the user automatically at a constant rate whenever the user logs in to desktop. None of this requires intervention from me. The update I do annually is a major version upgrade from LTS version to another if one is available. My in-laws who live 2300km away have called me only TWICE in the past 6-7 years they've been on lniux. Same goes for my old mother who used to drive me nuts with her problems every two weeks.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
29,439
You have no clue of what you're talking about. Linux has a thing called 'unattended upgrades' which take care of security updates without the user intervening with it. Then, it being a desktop install, other kind of upgrades are offered to the user automatically at a constant rate whenever the user logs in to desktop. None of this requires intervention from me. The update I do annually is a major version upgrade from LTS version to another if one is available. My in-laws who live 2300km away have called me only TWICE in the past 6-7 years they've been on lniux. Same goes for my old mother who used to drive me nuts with her problems every two weeks.
ah so just like windows update... thanks for clearing that up.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
ah so just like windows update... thanks for clearing that up.
It's not at all like windows update. It's transparent and the user can freely select when to perform it. And the update part is obviously not what I'm talking about here. When my in-laws were running Windows they one summer had 40 different malware or trojan infections running on the computer. 40. That was actually the year when I suggested them that it would be smarter to switch to linux. My father in law was a heavy excel user, he had been using excel, lotus123 or similar at work for 30 years so he called me a couple of times to ask how special functions are done on libreoffice. The transition took about 2 weeks and after that both of the in-laws were happily using linux.
 

mvmiller12

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
1,092
Windows viruses and malware are not available on linux. That's the point.

And Linux viruses and malware are not available on Windows. And yes, those things exist. You might argue that there are MORE Windows viruses and malware out there, but that is simply a function of the install base being so large.

Some flavor of Windows is running on over 75% of desktop PCs worldwide. There are estimated to be over 1 BILLION computers running Windows 10 specifically out there. All flavors of Linux combined account for roughly 1.5% of desktop PCs. (Linux is dramatically more popular in the embedded and mobile spaces since Android counts as a Linux distribution).

You can view these statistics from the source, here.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
And Linux viruses and malware are not available on Windows. And yes, those things exist. You might argue that there are MORE Windows viruses and malware out there, but that is simply a function of the install base being so large.

Some flavor of Windows is running on over 75% of desktop PCs worldwide. There are estimated to be over 1 BILLION computers running Windows 10 specifically out there. All flavors of Linux combined account for roughly 1.5% of desktop PCs. (Linux is dramatically more popular in the embedded and mobile spaces since Android counts as a Linux distribution).

You can view these statistics from the source, here.
LOL there are maybe 10 linux malware/viruses and those have been mitigated ages ago. And because software to linux is installed through trusted repositories it reduces the chances of infection a thousand fold compared to the Windows model where users download and run code from unknown sources off the internet. The fact that linux desktops are still rare is exactly the reason why a smart person uses one. You don't want to go riding the village bicycle, everyone else has already.
 

vick1000

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
2,305
LOL there are maybe 10 linux malware/viruses and those have been mitigated ages ago. And because software to linux is installed through trusted repositories it reduces the chances of infection a thousand fold compared to the Windows model where users download and run code from unknown sources off the internet. The fact that linux desktops are still rare is exactly the reason why a smart person uses one. You don't want to go riding the village bicycle, everyone else has already.
Linux is increasingly being targeted, only slowing the past few years, and there have been far more CVE than 10 over the years. Far less than Windows family of products, but it will trend again I am sure, with some of the later GUIs getting popular.
https://www.cvedetails.com/product/47/Linux-Linux-Kernel.html?vendor_id=33
 
Last edited:

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,289
Yes, using something that no one wants to use will make you safer. Why not go back to analog tape decks and physical file storage, then no one can hack you.

1616346416857.jpeg
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
Yes, using something that no one wants to use will make you safer. Why not go back to analog tape decks and physical file storage, then no one can hack you.

View attachment 340973
That would be similar to linux if the analog decks outperformed the digital. And plenty of people want to use linux, just the majority of people are brainwashed to think there is nothing except windows.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
21,298
That would be similar to linux if the analog decks outperformed the digital. And plenty of people want to use linux, just the majority of people are brainwashed to think there is nothing except windows.
Brainwashed? Sounds like a conspiracy is afoot, boys!

More like they see Linux is poor on the desktop and don't want to try to switch even if their work and gaming demands allowed for it. Why change what works great such as windows 10 to go to desktop linux? Bleh!
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,289
Brainwashed? Sounds like a conspiracy is afoot, boys!

More like they see Linux is poor on the desktop and don't want to try to switch even if their work and gaming demands allowed for it. Why change what works great such as windows 10 to go to desktop linux? Bleh!

I have to wonder how it is brainwashing given that W10 (and frankly most major windows iterations) function fine and offer everything required by most people. Oh no, I'm brainwashed into an ecosystem that largely works as intended and does what I need it to do, quick switch to something else!!

That is where all Linux evangelists fail, their not selling a better product, their selling the same thing (at best) but open source. Nothing BOOnie has stated about Linux doesn't already exist on W10, except for maybe picking details of an update (which frankly I don't want people doing anyway unless they have the knowledge to install, configure, and run Linux). So just what am I being sold? The same thing with some extra hoops, sale failed.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
I have to wonder how it is brainwashing given that W10 (and frankly most major windows iterations) function fine and offer everything required by most people. Oh no, I'm brainwashed into an ecosystem that largely works as intended and does what I need it to do, quick switch to something else!!

That is where all Linux evangelists fail, their not selling a better product, their selling the same thing (at best) but open source. Nothing BOOnie has stated about Linux doesn't already exist on W10, except for maybe picking details of an update (which frankly I don't want people doing anyway unless they have the knowledge to install, configure, and run Linux). So just what am I being sold? The same thing with some extra hoops, sale failed.
Eh, having control over your computer, having security, having total transparency over what runs on your computer... Nothing you say? You're laughable. Go back playing your Windows games, they have rotted your brain.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,289
Eh, having control over your computer, having security, having total transparency over what runs on your computer... Nothing you say? You're laughable. Go back playing your Windows games, they have rotted your brain.

Only one brain here rotted. When your shitty sales pitch fails, you try to shame me into something, gtfo of here.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
Only one brain here rotted. When your shitty sales pitch fails, you try to shame me into something, gtfo of here.
You're just one slave among others. But suit yousrelf. I'll laugh the next time Microsoft force boots your computer again lol.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,289
I've ignored his ass, I'll still read his comments from time to time for the laughs. He doesn't understand a word I've said through his hazy filtered brain.

Oh no a reboot indeed, on my NVME drive during an evening that I'm probably not using my computer to install some updates that to date have kept me perfectly secure.

Tell you what BOOnie, I'll deploy a few linux test systems you can maintain for free, and contractually indeminify me and my company from any and all incidents with a irrevocable personal guarantee, and I'll try it out. Thats about as much trust as I have for the average IT professional, and you seem about there.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
9,058
This goes to length to show how satisfied people are when being conditioned to imprisonment. You have to give up some minor details (freedom) but at least you get your 3 meals a day and a routine schedule (of reboots). Why see trouble and actually learn something... nah let's just play some GAMEZ.

Social media + Windows + games = age of dumbification.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,404
I've ignored his ass, I'll still read his comments from time to time for the laughs. He doesn't understand a word I've said through his hazy filtered brain.

Oh no a reboot indeed, on my NVME drive during an evening that I'm probably not using my computer to install some updates that to date have kept me perfectly secure.

Tell you what BOOnie, I'll deploy a few linux test systems you can maintain for free, and contractually indeminify me and my company from any and all incidents with a irrevocable personal guarantee, and I'll try it out. Thats about as much trust as I have for the average IT professional, and you seem about there.

And much better local privacy and local security. Privacy is the very specific reason I switched completely to Ubuntu on my personal machines. I simply setup Windows 10 for gaming on, ran Chris Titus Tech's debloat scripts, removed all the unneeded stuff I will not use, setup a standard user account for when I game on it and that is pretty much it.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
21,298
This goes to length to show how satisfied people are when being conditioned to imprisonment. You have to give up some minor details (freedom) but at least you get your 3 meals a day and a routine schedule (of reboots). Why see trouble and actually learn something... nah let's just play some GAMEZ.

Social media + Windows + games = age of dumbification.
You are amazing. Thanks for the chuckles.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,289
This goes to length to show how satisfied people are when being conditioned to imprisonment. You have to give up some minor details (freedom) but at least you get your 3 meals a day and a routine schedule (of reboots). Why see trouble and actually learn something... nah let's just play some GAMEZ.

Social media + Windows + games = age of dumbification.
Put your money where your mouth is, until then gtfo.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,404
This goes to length to show how satisfied people are when being conditioned to imprisonment. You have to give up some minor details (freedom) but at least you get your 3 meals a day and a routine schedule (of reboots). Why see trouble and actually learn something... nah let's just play some GAMEZ.

Social media + Windows + games = age of dumbification.

LOL! Who is dumb enough, in my opinion, to use social media? I have fully moved off all of it, game on my Windows 10 install and at least as far as an IT professional goes, I know it like the back of my hand. And no, not all games work on Linux because, otherwise, I would not have installed a gaming install of Windows 10.

insults and "edginess" isnt going to change anyones mind.

Personally, I do not care to change anyone's mind, one way or the other. I use Ubuntu Linux on my personal computers, exclusively, for objective,practical privacy, security and other reasons.
 

ThreeDee

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
11,259
Wait a minute ..you mean to tell me that you can't do social media stuff and/or .. play games in linux?!
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
628
And I thought the thread topics was windows? Anyway my vote is for Vista. Beta tested it for awhile and suddenly it was ready for prime time according to MS. As I'm reading the news my system locked up. Thought omg this is gonna a fiasco.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,921
Yes, using something that no one wants to use will make you safer. Why not go back to analog tape decks and physical file storage, then no one can hack you.

View attachment 340973
People use Android.

In fact: Globally, Android is the most popular OS in use, surpassing Windows. Yet it suffers a minuscule fraction of the Malware, PUP, Trojan, cryptolocker, ransomware and virus infections that are experienced under the Windows platform.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

Windows Malware infections in the first quarter of 2020 made up 83.45% of all infections, while Android made up only 3.24%. Basically that blows the idea of security simply via obscurity totally out of the water. Whats more, it's totally plausible to compare desktop to mobile operating systems when they're both outstanding attack vectors and Microsoft themselves have deliberately done their best to make their operating system a mobile and desktop solution.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/680943/malware-os-distribution/

If modern problems require modern solutions, it's obvious that solution isn't Windows in it's current form. As an individual that works on Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa (average user) Windows based devices - I'd estimate at least 75% of all machines are infected with some form of Malware. Of that 75%, I'd estimate that 60% of those users installed the Malware manually on their machines (known as PUP's) - These PUP's then create back doors to download even more Malware on the victim's Windows machine.

It's simply too easy to install random .msi installers under the Windows platform and the 'solutions' are simply failing at holding back the ocean.
 
Last edited:

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,256
Windows Malware infections in the first quarter of 2020 made up 83.45% of all infections, while Android made up only 3.24%. Basically that blows the idea of security simply via obscurity totally out of the water. Whats more, it's totally plausible to compare desktop to mobile operating systems when they're both outstanding attack vectors and Microsoft themselves have deliberately done their best to make their operating system a mobile and desktop solution.

If someone wants the Android experience on a Windows machine they can run Windows 10 in S Mode, and just like with Android, forced to hope that the program you want has been approved by the overlord of your respective app store. If a company has a dispute, or some of the woke become offended, you get to be told that you can't run certain apps on your computer anymore. It's like saying that being locked in a jail cell is more safe than walking freely on the street. That might be true, but freedom has value as well.

What's better, the freedom to potentially infect your own computer, or only being allowed to do what you are told? I do believe there are some people out there where the latter would be better. The type of people who like to click on links in spam emails, etc. But I know which one I prefer for myself.
 
Last edited:

ThreeDee

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
11,259
And I thought the thread topics was windows? Anyway my vote is for Vista. Beta tested it for awhile and suddenly it was ready for prime time according to MS. As I'm reading the news my system locked up. Thought omg this is gonna a fiasco.
ran beta version of Vista on sub par computers in a computer lab at a school for troubled teens .. never had any issues .. played many a lan game of Halo on those PC's with the kids ... good times
 

grasshoppa

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Messages
5,319
Stop telling me what you don't know. Stop denying my experience. W10 has been perfect, I literally couldn't ask for more at this point. No BSODs without failing hardware, great virus protection, it simply works in a way most windows do not. Since windows 10 I haven't had to do shit for googling, it just works.
This hasn't been my experience at all. W10 is far harder to maintain, particularly in a larger network environment, than it's predecessors. Try uninstalling OneDrive, for instance. Or uninstalling the trial version of office that a recent update pushed out ( overriding the already installed version of office ). Couldn't uninstall it from the windows 10 apps and features dialog either, but fortunately there are TWO places you have to look to uninstall applications, so removal from the old control panel worked fine. Printers are a constant headache ( 2021 and printers are still an issue...unbelievable! ), requiring manual removal of folders and files in the print spooler.

But hey, at least group policies mostly, usually work! Let's not talk about the joke W16/W19 servers are now a days.

I won't weigh in on the timeless win vs linux debate except to say I have some extremely low ability users, and I'd be willing to try linux out with them if it were an option.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,733
This hasn't been my experience at all. W10 is far harder to maintain, particularly in a larger network environment, than it's predecessors. Try uninstalling OneDrive, for instance.
"Uninstall OneDrive" I dunno, since in my environment we (I) try to keep Windows as file-intact as possible to avoid major upgrade issues etc. What MS does offer is a way to block out a lot of the desktop integration stuff, which is the method we use. It's a single policy/registry key:
---
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\OneDrive

DisableFileSyncNGSC DWORD

0 or delete = enable
1 = disable
---
(https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16278-enable-disable-onedrive-integration.html)

On a higher level, we have our domain set up with MS, so if a user even tries to login on the OneDrive web UI, using their work email, it won't let them unless we create an account.

Or uninstalling the trial version of office that a recent update pushed out ( overriding the already installed version of office ).
This is odd, and we never saw this in my environment (we have a few hundred Win10 Pro's with varied versions of Office). Maybe it depends on the build? We use MS's normal consumer upgrade channel, so virtually all users are on current supported versions (18363, 19041, 19042). For a while now new installs drop an Office icon that goes to the web Office apps if desktop Office isn't installed. I'm just not aware of any cases where the existing Office got changed to something else. My local Win10 machine with Office2016 on it is completely up to date and still has Office 2016 on it.

Couldn't uninstall it from the windows 10 apps and features dialog either, but fortunately there are TWO places you have to look to uninstall applications, so removal from the old control panel worked fine.
That's interesting. I have a Win10 laptop here which I rarely use, it's got the "Office app" on it, and it shows in the Settings app panel as .. Office. It can be removed from there.

Screenshot 2021-03-23 084808.png


Printers are a constant headache ( 2021 and printers are still an issue...unbelievable! ), requiring manual removal of folders and files in the print spooler.
I can only guess MS is doing work on the printer subsystem, causing these new issues. But ya know, for whatever reason, however prettied up the GUI tries to make it, printer subsystems are terrible all around. I'm also my company's Mac admin, and scripting printer setups there is not substantially easier than on Windows. I haven't done any removal of drivers via scripting, as we don't have use cases for that. If we change a printer physically we just tell the user to delete the printer and re-add it, which also hasn't been a thing for over a year really.
 

grasshoppa

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Messages
5,319
"Uninstall OneDrive" I dunno, since in my environment we (I) try to keep Windows as file-intact as possible to avoid major upgrade issues etc. What MS does offer is a way to block out a lot of the desktop integration stuff, which is the method we use. It's a single policy/registry key:
---
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\OneDrive

DisableFileSyncNGSC DWORD

0 or delete = enable
1 = disable
---
(https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16278-enable-disable-onedrive-integration.html)

On a higher level, we have our domain set up with MS, so if a user even tries to login on the OneDrive web UI, using their work email, it won't let them unless we create an account.


This is odd, and we never saw this in my environment (we have a few hundred Win10 Pro's with varied versions of Office). Maybe it depends on the build? We use MS's normal consumer upgrade channel, so virtually all users are on current supported versions (18363, 19041, 19042). For a while now new installs drop an Office icon that goes to the web Office apps if desktop Office isn't installed. I'm just not aware of any cases where the existing Office got changed to something else. My local Win10 machine with Office2016 on it is completely up to date and still has Office 2016 on it.


That's interesting. I have a Win10 laptop here which I rarely use, it's got the "Office app" on it, and it shows in the Settings app panel as .. Office. It can be removed from there.

View attachment 341471


I can only guess MS is doing work on the printer subsystem, causing these new issues. But ya know, for whatever reason, however prettied up the GUI tries to make it, printer subsystems are terrible all around. I'm also my company's Mac admin, and scripting printer setups there is not substantially easier than on Windows. I haven't done any removal of drivers via scripting, as we don't have use cases for that. If we change a printer physically we just tell the user to delete the printer and re-add it, which also hasn't been a thing for over a year really.
1) OneDrive; I'll try that, but it begs the question why do you need to edit the registry to stop a program from running ( instead of being able to remove it? )
2) Oh, it shows up in the w10 features panel, but it throws an error when I try to remove it ( can't find the uninstaller ). Works fine from the old control panel...but again, here; why are there two different ways to remove programs, and why do they function differently?
3) Printers...linux is dead simple. You set it up, and it works...period. The setup is significantly easier as well. So why windows ( and apparently mac ) continues to struggle with this is beyond me. There's nothing inherently difficult about printers either; it's really as simple as throwing a PS file at a specific port ( or PLC 5/6 ).
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,733
1) OneDrive; I'll try that, but it begs the question why do you need to edit the registry to stop a program from running ( instead of being able to remove it? )
OneDrive is integrated all over the OS for MS Account stuff, so it's not just one thing you can remove. It's not an app, it's a whole bunch of plugs into OS function.
2) Oh, it shows up in the w10 features panel, but it throws an error when I try to remove it ( can't find the uninstaller ). Works fine from the old control panel...but again, here; why are there two different ways to remove programs, and why do they function differently?
I just removed the one I screenshotted. Took about five seconds. This goes back to me avoiding altering Windows just for such cases. You may want to check alterations to Windows in your environment and see if a clean install exhibits the same issue.
3) Printers...linux is dead simple. You set it up, and it works...period. The setup is significantly easier as well. So why windows ( and apparently mac ) continues to struggle with this is beyond me. There's nothing inherently difficult about printers either; it's really as simple as throwing a PS file at a specific port ( or PLC 5/6 ).
The Mac way isn't substantially different than the "somewhat agreed upon" Linux way with CUPS, at least. However, macOS has a GUI way, where the GUI will *automatically* query the printer and then download required drivers if Apple has them in their repo and it's really soccer mom friendly. If one doesn't use the GUI, there is no CLI version of "auto-detect the printer." It's one giant line of lpadmin text with the printer name, IP, model, driver, location, etc. If a printer changes, admin's gotta a) be aware of it in a global environment and b) update scripts involving finding .ppds or whatever.

The old style rundll32 way of adding printers in Windows is atrocious and makes zero sense. There is a Powershell way to do it now which is way more logical when it works. My scripts are pretty dated but when I made them HP still insisted on only having their drivers packed in an exe file, so the installation, while pretty easy, requires that exe and isn't standard. Otherwise it's a "Add-PrinterPort" (guess what that does) and "Add-Printer" (another brain teaser) command, and blam, printer.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,404
1) OneDrive; I'll try that, but it begs the question why do you need to edit the registry to stop a program from running ( instead of being able to remove it? )
2) Oh, it shows up in the w10 features panel, but it throws an error when I try to remove it ( can't find the uninstaller ). Works fine from the old control panel...but again, here; why are there two different ways to remove programs, and why do they function differently?
3) Printers...linux is dead simple. You set it up, and it works...period. The setup is significantly easier as well. So why windows ( and apparently mac ) continues to struggle with this is beyond me. There's nothing inherently difficult about printers either; it's really as simple as throwing a PS file at a specific port ( or PLC 5/6 ).

Printers, yes but, I found that at least with HP scanners, you have to install the HP software for it to work.
 

grasshoppa

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Messages
5,319
OneDrive is integrated all over the OS for MS Account stuff, so it's not just one thing you can remove. It's not an app, it's a whole bunch of plugs into OS function.
...and that's a good thing? That's a great argument against windows 10 in my mind.
I just removed the one I screenshotted. Took about five seconds. This goes back to me avoiding altering Windows just for such cases. You may want to check alterations to Windows in your environment and see if a clean install exhibits the same issue.
There aren't any modifications to the OS which would cause that ( at least from me, might be from the vendor ). You missed the part, however, where there are two different ways to modify programs, which apparently work differently. That's unique to windows 10, and frankly ridiculous.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,921
What's better, the freedom to potentially infect your own computer, or only being allowed to do what you are told? I do believe there are some people out there where the latter would be better. The type of people who like to click on links in spam emails, etc. But I know which one I prefer for myself.
Under Windows, the philosophy appears to be "you're only allowed to do what you are told". It's Microsoft's operating system and they make that known, time and time again.

Besides, Arch users all download software from one central repository, and they'll tell you they're the pinnacle of freedom.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,256
Under Windows, the philosophy appears to be "you're only allowed to do what you are told". It's Microsoft's operating system and they make that known, time and time again.

There is nothing that prevents me from installing anything I want to on my Windows computer, without ever touching an app store or other "central repository" (which only contain "approved" apps/programs).
 
Top