Is Windows 10 20H2 the worst windows yet?

M76

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Windows 10 has started out OK, but every new version they force on you introduces new issues, and solve none. My troubles were steadily increasing ever since I've started using it. It was not so long ago that it decided, because you know it's no longer the user that decides, that it shall upgrade itself to 20H2. And it's a nightmare.

  • 9 out of 10 boots would take minutes, with the one fluke working normally.
  • 5 out of 10 startups would end with networking disabled, having to manually unplug the Ethernet cable then reconnect it for it to work, or disable / enable cycle the network adapter in the device manager.
  • 1 out of 10 times it would boot to automatic startup repair for no reason whatsoever when turning on the computer after it was shut down properly, so no failed boot attempts before.
I've gotten used to these, and even expect them to happen, but today W10 decided to take things to the next level:

Starting, no network, which I was expecting, only this time it was different, because it didn't say network cable unplugged as usual, there was just no network connection period, despite the cable being live. So wtf?
Let's see the built in trouble shooter even if it usually doesn't solve shit: Error: Service is not running ?! That's very strange.
After some manual troubleshooting, it turns out, DHCP service is not running either that's why there is no network.
Trying to start DHCP service manually: Access Denied.
In the meantime it turns out a bunch of network related services are out of order including the firewall. That's just neat, imagine if I was connecting directly to the internet on DSL or a public wifi?

Last night everything was working normally, I shut down the computer properly and this is what greets me today, when I'm on a crunch week anyway.

Fucking Windows10
 

B00nie

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Blocking access to network components could be malware activity. Remember installing anything fishy lately or did a website "blink" at you? :)
 

cdabc123

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Many of you seem to have never experienced issues with Windows 10. Which I find odd as I have experienced quite afew issues across multiple builds in addition to the general annoyance that Windows 10 is. Why do I want so many adds, popups and forced decisions/installations from a os? Windows has broken itself beyond the point of repair from updates a handful of times and after a certain point I had no idea why I kept reinstalling it.

2019 server is rock solid and easy to mod into what I want out of a os so it's been my choice for abit.
 

Dan_D

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Fuck no. Windows 10 20h2 is by far, not even remotely the worst Windows version ever. Try Windows 95 (pre-OSR2 versions) or Windows ME. Windows 8.0 was shit too. Microsoft has had some huge fucking turds and no Windows 10 version makes the list.
 

Mchart

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I haven't had a blue screen in years. Systems i've seen with blue screen issues had failing drives/RAM. And yeah, the pre-Windows 2000 days were bad. Constant blue screens with even the slightest driver issue. IRQ issues, etc. Back then for my non-gaming systems I stuck with Linux and/or a Mac because they were just so much more stable generally. I only tolerated it because of gaming. Windows 8 honestly wasn't bad from a stability perspective, but yeah, the GUI changes were an awful, really bad idea. Forcing mouse + keyboard users to use a tablet interface was just mind-numbingly stupid. I would generally say 8 is the worst version ever. I'd even rate it worse then ME. At least you knew what you were getting with ME. You didn't have to re-learn how to use fucking Windows with ME, regardless of it just being a bloated crappy 98 w/ a 2000 interface, and most people never even touched ME outside of a couple poor souls who got it in a very short time period as part of OEM builds.

Only real issue i've had with 10 is the Cortana integration with the windows key search function. On initial boot it takes a little time for the search function to start working because it has to connect to Microsoft's services first, and if you're trying to do a quick search & run of a local file this delay is ultra annoying. This is my biggest gripe with 10, and the fact that there isn't an option to disable the 'enhanced search' crap is super annoying. I wish they'd let you disable it.
 
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vegeta535

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It is something you are doing. Never had an issues with windows on several machines. From low end junk laptops to high end desktops. I notice people who always have issues always tinker with shit for no reason or constantly coplain about windows. They are like setting themselves up to have windows fail on them.
 

Zepher

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I guess OP hasn't tried Windows ME yet?
I ran that OS for maybe 2 hours. It blue screened constantly right after install. Immediately went back to XP or Windows 2000 or whatever OS I was running at the time.
 

GotNoRice

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I never had an issue with Windows ME personally. I mean, Windows 9x as a whole sucked, but I did think that every successive version was better. Windows ME was not great, but I didn't think that it was worse than Windows 98se.
 

ManofGod

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It is something you are doing. Never had an issues with windows on several machines. From low end junk laptops to high end desktops. I notice people who always have issues always tinker with shit for no reason or constantly coplain about windows. They are like setting themselves up to have windows fail on them.

As an IT professional, I have seen plenty of Windows 10 issues over the years, from folks who do not tinker and did not have any malware on their machines, either. On my personal computers, I do not use Windows 10 anymore, except for gaming, because I have decided to focus on local privacy more than anything else. Yeah, my personal computers, when I did use Windows 10 exclusively, did not have many issues but I also build my own machines.
 

XJJack

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Many machines, all different configurations of hardware. Check for updates and install a couple times a month so it doesn't come up while I'm in the middle of something.

No issues.
 

Dan_D

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I ran that OS for maybe 2 hours. It blue screened constantly right after install. Immediately went back to XP or Windows 2000 or whatever OS I was running at the time.
You couldn't have gone back to Windows XP without a time machine. Windows 2000 came out just prior to ME if I recall correctly. Microsoft's original idea was to replace Windows 9x with Windows 2000, but it was lacking in several areas and ME was rushed out the door with a new driver model and a stripped driver database. This is what led to the majority of problems. If you had high end, name brand hardware you were probably fine. However, a ton of OEM machines and budget builds were utterly dreadful with ME installed.
I never had an issue with Windows ME personally. I mean, Windows 9x as a whole sucked, but I did think that every successive version was better. Windows ME was not great, but I didn't think that it was worse than Windows 98se.
I didn't have issues with my personal machine either. However, I was a computer technician at the time and I saw tons of trouble on OEM and DIY PC's made with hardware that either didn't have good drivers for ME or didn't have them at all. That was the problem. The whole release wasn't thought through and even Microsoft jokes about ME being a mistake.
 

vegeta535

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You couldn't have gone back to Windows XP without a time machine. Windows 2000 came out just prior to ME if I recall correctly. Microsoft's original idea was to replace Windows 9x with Windows 2000, but it was lacking in several areas and ME was rushed out the door with a new driver model and a stripped driver database. This is what led to the majority of problems. If you had high end, name brand hardware you were probably fine. However, a ton of OEM machines and budget builds were utterly dreadful with ME installed.

I didn't have issues with my personal machine either. However, I was a computer technician at the time and I saw tons of trouble on OEM and DIY PC's made with hardware that either didn't have good drivers for ME or didn't have them at all. That was the problem. The whole release wasn't thought through and even Microsoft jokes about ME being a mistake.
Basically the same thing happened with Vista. I really never have problems with any windows cause my systems are generally pretty up to date. I normally don't keep something for more then 2 generations.
 
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pendragon1

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I didn't have issues with my personal machine either. However, I was a computer technician at the time and I saw tons of trouble on OEM and DIY PC's made with hardware that either didn't have good drivers for ME or didn't have them at all. That was the problem. The whole release wasn't thought through and even Microsoft jokes about ME being a mistake.
Basically the same thing happened with Vista. I really never have problems with any windows cause my systems are generally pretty up to date . I normally don't keep something for more then 2 generations.
that was my experience building/selling in a shop back then. if you had decent current hardware, both worked just fine. BUT i did see issues with older gen hardware trying to run them.

as far as op's title q; no, its far from it. 10 has been the easiest and most forgiving version of windows, imo.
 

DeaconFrost

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I wouldn't blame a single one of the OP's bullet points on the OS, to be honest. We're rolling out 20H2 on all new laptops because it's been working well. My only complaint is the stupid PIN setup during the install if you are on a network.
 

M76

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Blocking access to network components could be malware activity. Remember installing anything fishy lately or did a website "blink" at you? :)
That's what I suspected too at first, but alas found no evidence of anything like that. A system restore to the previous day revived the missing services.

I have it on 3 machines I use daily, they are all powered on 24/7 with reboots only during hardware changes or updates, and haven't experienced any issues yet.
And I have it on about a dozen machines, what's your point ? Would you also say, I have the same car model as you and mine didn't break down,so it's must be you! LOL

that was my experience building/selling in a shop back then. if you had decent current hardware, both worked just fine. BUT i did see issues with older gen hardware trying to run them.
Yep, X570 and Zen 2 is so outdated, that must be it!
as far as op's title q; no, its far from it. 10 has been the easiest and most forgiving version of windows, imo.
If you mean by tolerating hardware changes then yes, otherwise it's the worst experience I've had with Windows so far. Of course I skipped the worst versions, like ME, 2000, Vista, 8, even 8.1.
But I'm not sure Vista and 8 are technically worse than 10, one was too bloated for it's time and didn't offer anything of worth so it was really just too soon to upgrade to it.And 8 is only crap from the interface standpoint, trying to fix what ain't broke is still not a good idea. But make no mistake 10 is doing the same thing, but instead of doing it all at once like 8 they are slowly "fixing" it, eroding user control and oversight.
 

pendragon1

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Yep, X570 and Zen 2 is so outdated, that must be it!
youd be an idiot to try to run ME or vista on that hardware. which are what i was talking about.
If you mean by tolerating hardware changes then yes, otherwise it's the worst experience I've had with Windows so far. Of course I skipped the worst versions, like ME, 2000, Vista, 8, even 8.1.
But I'm not sure Vista and 8 are technically worse than 10, one was too bloated for it's time and didn't offer anything of worth so it was really just too soon to upgrade to it.And 8 is only crap from the interface standpoint, trying to fix what ain't broke is still not a good idea. But make no mistake 10 is doing the same thing, but instead of doing it all at once like 8 they are slowly "fixing" it, eroding user control and oversight.
as per... we're wrong, youre right....
 

Zepher

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And I have it on about a dozen machines, what's your point ? Would you also say, I have the same car model as you and mine didn't break down,so it's must be you! LOL
If you bought a dozen Mustangs and had no issues with them and I bought one and it broke down after a few months, is it fair for me to say that the Mustang is the worst car ever made?
 

M76

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youd be an idiot to try to run ME or vista on that hardware. which are what i was talking about.
Sorry, it didn't seem like you were talkinng about ME there, the quote you were replying to didn't mention it either.
as per... we're wrong, youre right....
About Windosw10 being the most livable Windows, yes, you are wrong.
 

pendragon1

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Sorry, it didn't seem like you were talkinng about ME there, the quote you were replying to didn't mention it either.

About Windosw10 being the most livable Windows, yes, you are wrong.
lol ok then...

1613674696646.png
 

M76

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If you bought a dozen Mustangs and had no issues with them and I bought one and it broke down after a few months, is it fair for me to say that the Mustang is the worst car ever made?
If you want to go by that analogy. If I Owned every generation from one to the fifth and I liked them all, but with the sixth gen they put in features that make my life miserable and constantly have problems with it, then yes I'd say the sixth gen mustang is the worst mustang ever made.

If you are going to make an analogy at least be accurate.
 

DeaconFrost

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About Windosw10 being the most livable Windows, yes, you are wrong.
It is, by far. It's painful to go back and try to use or support an older version. The hardware and software issues you are seeing on one computer don't negate the opinions and experience of others who manage hundreds of systems.
 

LukeTbk

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In my experience quality has been going up and up, would even consider including vista (because of the security jump) in this and Win8 if we abstract the interface part.

It could have been the custom build of the time I had, but win 95 seem a good candidate for worst in absolute term.

I went to have to reboot many time for a simple controller to work in windows 95 to have less problem with steam game on modern PC than on my video game consoles.
 
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This may sound odd but maybe your bios needs updated. I have had some totally crazy things happen with outdated bios and newer OS. Heck one of my PC would turn off everything but the fans until i updated the bios..
 

ManofGod

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On my personal computers, I am glad I have stopped using Windows as my daily driver. I use it only for games because with everything going on, I wanted local privacy to be a primary focus for me. My favorite Windows versions were Windows 95 and Windows Vista but as for gaming, Windows 10 is fine but, I did strip it down due to personal privacy concerns.
 
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Shotglass01

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Windows 10 has started out OK, but every new version they force on you introduces new issues, and solve none. My troubles were steadily increasing ever since I've started using it. It was not so long ago that it decided, because you know it's no longer the user that decides, that it shall upgrade itself to 20H2. And it's a nightmare.

  • 9 out of 10 boots would take minutes, with the one fluke working normally.
  • 5 out of 10 startups would end with networking disabled, having to manually unplug the Ethernet cable then reconnect it for it to work, or disable / enable cycle the network adapter in the device manager.
  • 1 out of 10 times it would boot to automatic startup repair for no reason whatsoever when turning on the computer after it was shut down properly, so no failed boot attempts before.
Geez! Starting to sound like Linux forums around here! :D The only one I can relate to, mildly, is your second point. I've also had this happen with an ethernet connection as well. I suggest checking the event viewer ans see if anything is showing up under system. The disable/enable thing seemed to work. For what it's worth, I wish you luck!
 

Armenius

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Basically the same thing happened with Vista. I really never have problems with any windows cause my systems are generally pretty up to date. I normally don't keep something for more then 2 generations.
With Vista drivers were still a pain to deal with even on the brand new PC I installed it on, but the situation improved greatly after the first SP. Though Creative is still lazy with driver updates to this day, for some reason.
 

mvmiller12

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That's what I suspected too at first, but alas found no evidence of anything like that. A system restore to the previous day revived the missing services.


And I have it on about a dozen machines, what's your point ? Would you also say, I have the same car model as you and mine didn't break down,so it's must be you! LOL


Yep, X570 and Zen 2 is so outdated, that must be it!

If you mean by tolerating hardware changes then yes, otherwise it's the worst experience I've had with Windows so far. Of course I skipped the worst versions, like ME, 2000, Vista, 8, even 8.1.
But I'm not sure Vista and 8 are technically worse than 10, one was too bloated for it's time and didn't offer anything of worth so it was really just too soon to upgrade to it.And 8 is only crap from the interface standpoint, trying to fix what ain't broke is still not a good idea. But make no mistake 10 is doing the same thing, but instead of doing it all at once like 8 they are slowly "fixing" it, eroding user control and oversight.

Personally, Windows 2000 Professional was probably the best out-of-the-box OS experience I ever had, and I was a gamer running AMD K6 systems at the time. I would have expected to run into problems with that setup, yet did not. Coming from Win98 SE, Win2K was fast, stable, and ran everything I threw at it - including DOS programs - without issue. I never had any problems with any Windows games I wanted to play, and frankly wondered WHY Win2K was withheld from regular consumers. I preferred it to WinXP until WinXP x64 released (which I also had little problem with beyond DOS support being lousy in it).

My experiences with Windows 8 were pretty good as well, once I figured out how to navigate the new Start Screen. But that first week with it was admittedly rough :).
 

SuperSubZero

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At some point the people who have "issues" need to cut down the hyperbole and genuinely, honestly, accurately explain your issue, with no exaggeration. Cuz really we have all been here long enough to know better. The topic title is clickbait, several of the posts in here are extreme hyperbole, and then the usual suspects all come out with no useful input.
 

B00nie

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My experiences with Windows 8 were pretty good as well, once I figured out how to navigate the new Start Screen. But that first week with it was admittedly rough :).
My uncle who is very non-computer savvy actually liked Windows 8 because it had a similar logic with his Windows phone :D
I thought it would be impossible for anyone to like default Win8 interface but wrong I was.
 
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