Is Ubisoft smoking Meth?Says"95% of PC gamers are theives"

MavericK96 said:
Yeah, in reality pirates are actually really picky about games because they can get anything for free.
Click to expand...

That's the impression I have gotten as well from reading various forums, they can play anything they want so why would they waste their time playing shit games. If its shit, they delete it and move on to something else.

They are also much more dispassionate in their opinions, as opposed to people who might have paid for a shit game and therefore tend to subconsciously rationalize that its not as shit as they would otherwise believe.

But I guess from Ubi's perspective a download is a lost sale is a lost sale, irrespective of whether the person ultimately decides its a turd and only plays it for 10 minutes, particularly given that legitimate purchasers no longer have the luxury of being able to recoup their lost monies by returning or selling the game.
 
Staples said:
Piracy is high but not that high.

But piracy is still a big problem (and no [H] gamer will admit that).
Click to expand...

Loads will...the problem that a lot of vet gamers have with this is:

1) Piracy is blown out of proportion and is used as an excuse to produce bad ports and put in minimal effort.
2) Piracy is often mis represented, it's assumed people simply want things for free when the reality is that people pirate things for different reasons, not all of them are simply looking for a free ride.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Loads will...the problem that a lot of vet gamers have with this is:

1) Piracy is blown out of proportion and is used as an excuse to produce bad ports and put in minimal effort.
2) Piracy is often mis represented, it's assumed people simply want things for free when the reality is that people pirate things for different reasons, not all of them are simply looking for a free ride.
Click to expand...
motive doesnt justify the crime
 
jebo_4jc said:
motive doesnt justify the crime
Click to expand...

I never said it does...I'm simply disagreeing that [H] members will deny piracy is an issue, I think plenty enough of us acknowledge it's an issue but disagree to what extent and for what reasons.

Motive matters a LOT, in the absence of any way to realistically police piracy the next best thing is address the very real issues gamers have with buying games so they actually want to pay for your product.

To not face up to this reality and use harsh DRM despite its inability to hinder piracy is just cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's THAT kind of behaviour I see [H] members having more of an issue with.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
To not face up to this reality and use harsh DRM despite its inability to hinder piracy is just cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's THAT kind of behaviour I see [H] members having more of an issue with.
Click to expand...

DING! DING! DING!
We have a winner!
 
I read an article that argued that publishers know the DRM will be cracked, and they don't care. What they care about is delaying piracy and getting those launch sales - it still takes time to have the DRM cracked and proper-working versions then circulated around the usual spots on the Internet...during which time the publisher expects more sales to occur at the launching price.
 
Plague_Injected said:
I read an article that argued that publishers know the DRM will be cracked, and they don't care. What they care about is delaying piracy and getting those launch sales - it still takes time to have the DRM cracked and proper-working versions then circulated around the usual spots on the Internet...during which time the publisher expects more sales to occur at the launching price.
Click to expand...

Even though many games are cracked and leaked before the game even hits the streets? Or even when they don't get leaked early, almost all games I know of have cracks available on launch day. Talk about the publishers with their head in the sand.
 
Plague_Injected said:
I read an article that argued that publishers know the DRM will be cracked, and they don't care. What they care about is delaying piracy and getting those launch sales - it still takes time to have the DRM cracked and proper-working versions then circulated around the usual spots on the Internet...during which time the publisher expects more sales to occur at the launching price.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and then on launch day you have pirates who can't play because of DRM and also legitimate customers who can't play because the DRM fucks up and servers don't work as expected. So often you go to forums and see people who preordered a game for top dollar and for one reason of another, often DRM related, they can't play it.

There's been times when I've actually had to download cracked versions of games I've BOUGHT AND PAID to get on or near launch day because of some problem or another with my legitimately purchased copy. Things that come to mind are TW2 and Crysis (the first one).
 
Plague_Injected said:
I read an article that argued that publishers know the DRM will be cracked, and they don't care. What they care about is delaying piracy and getting those launch sales - it still takes time to have the DRM cracked and proper-working versions then circulated around the usual spots on the Internet...during which time the publisher expects more sales to occur at the launching price.
Click to expand...

Even that is a bit of delusional rationalization....yes it can hold true for new DRM's which take time to crack, but once the scene understands the mechanics of the DRM it is not at all unusual for warez versions to show up on the internet either at the same time as retail copies or even before they become available.

The bigger thing they should be worried about is consumer apathy, because so many people now realize that if they don't want to pay full price and the game does not look like it warrants full price, all they have to do is wait 4 to 6 weeks in order to pick up the same game for half the cost. With my huge backlog a game has to look pretty damn compelling for me to even consider buying it at release.
 
Tudz said:
There's been times when I've actually had to download cracked versions of games I've BOUGHT AND PAID to get on or near launch day because of some problem or another with my legitimately purchased copy. Things that come to mind are TW2 and Crysis (the first one).
Click to expand...

You mean Warhead? I am pretty sure that Crysis 1 didn't have any online authentication. At least with TW2 they did the right thing and removed the DRM fairly soon after release.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah, and then on launch day you have pirates who can't play because of DRM and also legitimate customers who can't play because the DRM fucks up and servers don't work as expected. So often you go to forums and see people who preordered a game for top dollar and for one reason of another, often DRM related, they can't play it.

There's been times when I've actually had to download cracked versions of games I've BOUGHT AND PAID to get on or near launch day because of some problem or another with my legitimately purchased copy. Things that come to mind are TW2 and Crysis (the first one).
Click to expand...

The main problem is that publishers don't care. Refunds are perfectly possible, but it involves getting into a heated exchange with a dickhead store manager, quoting consumer law, being confident and assertive without being abusive and thrown out of the shopping complex... so people just don't bother. Therefore publishers reel in all those $60 (or $100 in our case) pre-orders and launch-week sales and it's up to the developer to patch the problems with any DRM as well as the game, assuming the publisher allows it.

People really need to get smart about refunds and that they are allowed by law. As much as corporations want us to believe otherwise, profit-first consumer-last company policy does not trump legislation and common law. If gamers just returned unusable games, got their money back and had Gamestop jumping up and down getting upset at the publishers, there would be a lot more care taken to make sure games ship in working order. The industry has been using patching as a crutch for far too long and it needs a reminder of the good old cartridge games where if your product was broken at launch, it stayed broken and you were fucked for life.
 
defiant007 said:
You mean Warhead? I am pretty sure that Crysis 1 didn't have any online authentication. At least with TW2 they did the right thing and removed the DRM fairly soon after release.
Click to expand...

Everyone who wanted TW2 should have bought it from GoG if DRM was an issue.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Everyone who wanted TW2 should have bought it from GoG if DRM was an issue.
Click to expand...

Yes but you have some people who rage against DRM also rage against anything that isn't on Steam and if it isn't on Steam they won't buy it. This sentiment was expressed during the recent Legend of Grimrock sale on GoG and a there was a minor but loud outcry that it didn't activate on Steam. What the hell...
 
Plague_Injected said:
Yes but you have some people who rage against DRM also rage against anything that isn't on Steam and if it isn't on Steam they won't buy it. This sentiment was expressed during the recent Legend of Grimrock sale on GoG and a there was a minor but loud outcry that it didn't activate on Steam. What the hell...
Click to expand...

Some will spend more time complaining about having to use more than one website or client than it takes to organize their games and get the best deals.
 
I do not actually know anyone who pirates games anymore, the largest reason being the availability and prices offered by Steam. I already gave up on Ubisoft, but they just strengthened my resolve, what a bunch of asshats.
 
defiant007 said:
You mean Warhead? I am pretty sure that Crysis 1 didn't have any online authentication. At least with TW2 they did the right thing and removed the DRM fairly soon after release.
Click to expand...
No it was the first Crysis. It might not have been a DRM issue, it was a long time ago and I've kind of forgotten. It was something with the DVD, there was some authentication file that wouldn't copy or read for some reason and some people had to copy it manually, my DVD drive just hated the Crysis DVD for one reason or another and even after copying the file manually it gave me issues at least half the time I tried to play the game so I just ended up downloading a noCD crack and it worked fine.
LeninGHOLA said:
Everyone who wanted TW2 should have bought it from GoG if DRM was an issue.
Click to expand...
Pfft, that's a silly thought. They released a boxed game and the boxed game should have worked. I bought the boxed copy because it came with free goodies that I wanted which weren't included in the GOG version. I knew it came with DRM, I wasn't however expecting to not be able to play the game. I preordered the game for the free loot so there was no way I could have known DRM was gonna be an issue. It wasn't that hard to fix anyway, but I was just making the point that this idea of DRM to stop launch day piracy is retarded when it ends up stopping your legitimate paying customers from playing and the pirates can still play it anyway.
 
Tudz said:
Pfft, that's a silly thought. They released a boxed game and the boxed game should have worked. I bought the boxed copy because it came with free goodies that I wanted which weren't included in the GOG version. I knew it came with DRM, I wasn't however expecting to not be able to play the game. I preordered the game for the free loot so there was no way I could have known DRM was gonna be an issue. It wasn't that hard to fix anyway, but I was just making the point that this idea of DRM to stop launch day piracy is retarded when it ends up stopping your legitimate paying customers from playing and the pirates can still play it anyway.
Click to expand...

Yea. CD Projekt didn't want the DRM at all, it all depended on who handled regional distribution.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea. CD Projekt didn't want the DRM at all, it all depended on who handled regional distribution.
Click to expand...

Yeah indeed, I don't blame CDProjekt in the slightest and think they're one of the best developers and publishers around both for giving the consumer what they want and also communication with gamers. It was Namco Bandai who were the retards in the situation, but either way it resulted in people not being able to play the game they paid for on release day while pirates could.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah indeed, I don't blame CDProjekt in the slightest and think they're one of the best developers and publishers around both for giving the consumer what they want and also communication with gamers. It was Namco Bandai who were the retards in the situation, but either way it resulted in people not being able to play the game they paid for on release day while pirates could.
Click to expand...

The Steam version also had problems at launch due to DRM, and it was self published by CDPR there. I never did get to play that DLC mission because of this. Strangely enough, I've never had a problem with not being able to play content in Ubi games, but I did with the Witcher 2.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea. CD Projekt didn't want the DRM at all, it all depended on who handled regional distribution.
Click to expand...

The same pricks who just upped the price of Dark Souls on Steam a whole $30 overnight for Australian users with absolutely no reason given - Namco Bandai.
 
hesho said:
i'm rather perplexed by this. Assuming 40 hours/week and 12 weeks, that's 5760 hours that needs to be paid to the 12 employees. Assuming $30.00/hour, that's a cost of $172800... but selling 50 000 copies doesn't make it worthwhile? Unless the game is sold for less then 5 bucks, each, it will still end up making money but it's not worth it?
Click to expand...

g1xx3r said:
WTF is Ubi on these days??Why not just cease ANY PC development..First the"I am Alive"shit now this..WOW..I usually ignore this shit but it seems Ubi is going out of their way to disrespect PC gamers.
Click to expand...

There are two things that perplex me:

  1. That generally, people don't understand that it costs more per/hour for each employee than just wages.

    • Taxes
    • Insurance
    • Software Licencing
    • Benefits
    • Bonuses

    And 12 weeks would have to be using the most talented individuals at Ubisoft, not the guys with 1-5 year experience. Depending on the engine they use of-course. (Some engines can deploy to every platform almost seamlessly, but are less optimised for each platform)

    http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Ubisoft-Salaries-E12717.htm

  2. That people don't really understand the article.

Do you guys just like to hate on Ubisoft or something, that article is about how they are trying a different approach to PC's and that is the Free-To-Play model, similar to what Valve is doing with TF2. Is Valve leaving PC gaming as well?

On the Topic of Piracy:

Hesho, they are not disrespecting PC Gamers that is probably what their statistics indicate and 90%+ is fairly common in PC Games (Compared to 99%+ on mobiles!).

Piracy disheartens developers, you see your game pirated 1 million copies and sold 100, 000 copies for every game you made you would become pretty annoyed as well. Remember it's easy to say you wouldn't and that there is no effective way to tell if a pirated copy actually became a sale.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Pira...33-to-1-Says-Bohemia-Interactive-235392.shtml
http://www.gamedev.net/blog/1062/entry-2253981-piracy-eh/

Disclaimer: I know these links are mostly not peer-reviewed or scientific, they are not trying to be, however they are a good read about the general vibe of PC piracy and how it affects the people that made the game. Yes there are different approaches to reducing piracy which is what this article we are discussing is about.
 
Plague_Injected said:
The same pricks who just upped the price of Dark Souls on Steam a whole $30 overnight for Australian users with absolutely no reason given - Namco Bandai.
Click to expand...

I don't get why they do that shit. It's only going to stop Aussies from buying the game or doing the whole proxy thing. Maybe Gabe and the Bamco folks are racist? Does gifting still work, or is it region locked?
 
Plague_Injected said:
The same pricks who just upped the price of Dark Souls on Steam a whole $30 overnight for Australian users with absolutely no reason given - Namco Bandai.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just got a temporary american residence and an american bank account so I think it's time to start a new Steam account to gift myself and my fellow Aussie friends games. :D

Unfortunately I don't actually have a computer to play any games though. :(

I should look into how it works when I move back to Aus, if I can just keep a US Steam account running or does it IP check every time you purchase/play.
 
Last edited:
Pretty sure it checks every time you login, so right now being in the US probably means you won't actually need a new account or anything.
 
castun said:
Pretty sure it checks every time you login, so right now being in the US probably means you won't actually need a new account or anything.
Click to expand...

This.

While I was in Germany, all the steam sales were the German ones and not the American ones.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah, I just got a temporary american residence and an american bank account so I think it's time to start a new Steam account to gift myself and my fellow Aussie friends games. :D

Unfortunately I don't actually have a computer to play any games though. :(

I should look into how it works when I move back to Aus, if I can just keep a US Steam account running or does it IP check every time you purchase/play.
Click to expand...

Yup, IP checks every time. Also be wary about loading up your account with credit, because that money becomes locked to the country you are in. In other words, if you buy steam credit in the US you will find you will not be able to use that credit when you return to Australia without having to email valve proof of residence.
 
That's a bit annoying! I thought it was more than just an IP check, which is what made it such a pain to set up while still in Australia. I could have sworn when I was here last time I was in the US it still wanted to charge me aussie prices. I'll be here for a year so I guess I can enjoy cheap games for a year, lol. I actually have a US residence and a US debit card I can use..
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I don't get why they do that shit. It's only going to stop Aussies from buying the game or doing the whole proxy thing. Maybe Gabe and the Bamco folks are racist?
Click to expand...

It's because of these extortionist pricks.

gamestop_.jpg
 
Protectionism is a factor as well?
I always thought Aussies got the shaft on game prices just due to taxes, the BS a game has to go through to get rated, and the market actually allowing that level of pricing.
 
GORANKAR said:
Protectionism is a factor as well?
I always thought Aussies got the shaft on game prices just due to taxes, the BS a game has to go through to get rated, and the market actually allowing that level of pricing.
Click to expand...

MS and Sony inflate the prices here so that retailers have to sell the games at a minimum price to make any profit. The retailers then charge the same prices for PC games, probably because the poor sods can't resell them 10 times each. They then threaten publishers to stop stocking their console releases if they don't make the digital prices for PC games the same price as in-store. Publishers are forced to price themselves out of the digital distribution market because they rely on retailers for fucking console game sales.

There is a government enquiry at the moment into why tech prices are disproportionately high here in Australia, due to the rapid increase in popularity of importing tech and entertainment goods, which is in turn affecting the struggling retail sector of the Australian economy.
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
Do you guys just like to hate on Ubisoft or something, that article is about how they are trying a different approach to PC's and that is the Free-To-Play model, similar to what Valve is doing with TF2. Is Valve leaving PC gaming as well?
Click to expand...

Valve didn't make TF2 free-to-play after calling PC gamers a bunch of thieves and saying "it's the only way we can make money!" TF2 was consistently in the top 10 sellers on Steam for years before they switched to the F2P model, and that model breathed quite a bit of new life into the game (as did each and every free update to the game that Valve provided). Good, well-supported games will sell: what a concept!

Ubisoft just saw Valve's "12x more profitable" results and said "me too", nothing more.
 
Plague_Injected said:
MS and Sony inflate the prices here so that retailers have to sell the games at a minimum price to make any profit. The retailers then charge the same prices for PC games, probably because the poor sods can't resell them 10 times each. They then threaten publishers to stop stocking their console releases if they don't make the digital prices for PC games the same price as in-store. Publishers are forced to price themselves out of the digital distribution market because they rely on retailers for fucking console game sales.

There is a government enquiry at the moment into why tech prices are disproportionately high here in Australia, due to the rapid increase in popularity of importing tech and entertainment goods, which is in turn affecting the struggling retail sector of the Australian economy.
Click to expand...

Ahh, that happens in the US as well, just not to that degree. At launch you can find a game just about everywhere for less than on Steam in the US. A few weeks or months later, and the games generally end up in some sale or another, but you can still usually find it cheaper on Amazon, or even the B&M stores. Though generally, Steam, and, D2Drive/Gamefly are not priced far enough above hard copies that they price themselves out of the market. Origin, and Uplay are both publisher run, and I have doubts as to whether either intends to actually compete with Steam. It seems more likely that they simply wish to try and push higher pricing on their own digitally delivered games, by either forcing other digital delivery methods out, or cramming their own service in on top.
 
Even though I know nothing about making games, I am tempted to learn how just to make one that doesn't suck.
 
BravO))) said:
Even though I know nothing about making games, I am tempted to learn how just to make one that doesn't suck.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's what a plethora of developers thought when they got into the industry. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top