Is this proof NVIDIA drivers are holding back GPU on Ryzen?

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kyriptic

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
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So I play A LOT of rocket league and upgraded to a 1800X from a 4770K and have a Titan X (pascal) and now i've noticed the most random split second frame drops. At first I just shrugged it off maybe due to overclocking and was still experimenting with settings and then I saw this.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11244...x-vs-core-i5-review-twelve-threads-vs-four/14

How's a Fury or RX 480 going to out perform a 1080??? Am I missing something?
 
i'm not going to just stab a fork into nvidia and claim it's 100% that they're biased against AMD or what ever garbage but i do feel the issues might be a lot bigger than just a simple overnight driver update. you have to remember that AMD has had all the time in the world to optimize their drivers to ryzen while nvidia's had what 3 months? so who the hell knows at this point whats going on or why the problem exists and if it is in fact fixable at a driver level for nvidia or if it's something on AMD's end. either way i've already grabbed an RX580 instead of the GTX 1060 i was looking at buying because of this so i'm happy.
 
It will probably take a bit of time for Nvidia to update their driver to Ryzen. I guess the question is: Has Nvidia had any Ryzen specific driver updates in any driver release from them thus far? Meaning has it been listed in their driver release notes? I don't really keep up with Nvidia driver releases.
 
Has Nvidia anything to gain by spending R&D money on optimising their competitor's product?
 
JimmiG said:
Well they still want to sell GeForce cards to Ryzen owners...
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Yeah they may be competitors in GPU market but in CPU side there is nothing they could gain by gimping AMD cpu's. They do want to sell their GPU's to Ryzen owners. Unless they are really spiteful that is and really want to see AMD burn, then every reasonable thought goes out of the window...

That said, even if they do want to sell their cards to Ryzen owners I'm sure that fixing their drivers for Ryzen is not a priority. They still come out on the top about 90% of the the time with both Ryzen and Intel CPU's.
 
It's easy to figure. Weigh the costs of paying their driver team to optimise thier drivers for Ryzen versus the potential losses they will take if every well-educated, Ryzen owning PC enthusiast (not a huge number) who happens to want a mid-range card (as AMD has nothing to compete above the 1070, so above an RX 580 they have no choice) chooses not to buy an nvidia product.

The potential losses are miniscule. Only the hardest of the hardcore Ryzen owners believe that Nvidia gimps thier CPUs, meanwhile how many of them have NO CHOICE but to buy Nvidia if they want a high-performance GPU.

ON TOP OF THAT: how many sales has AMD lost due to the multitude of reviews showing that Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 are a few % behind in gaming compared to an equally priced Intel product? Money lost for AMD is money they can't spend on making a new GPU. It does not benefit Nvidia to gimp AMD in every way they can, but I'll be damned if they are in a rush to fix AMD related problems any time soon.
 
MaZa said:
Yeah they may be competitors in GPU market but in CPU side there is nothing they could gain by gimping AMD cpu's. They do want to sell their GPU's to Ryzen owners. Unless they are really spiteful that is and really want to see AMD burn, then every reasonable thought goes out of the window...

That said, even if they do want to sell their cards to Ryzen owners I'm sure that fixing their drivers for Ryzen is not a priority. They still come out on the top about 90% of the the time with both Ryzen and Intel CPU's.
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Whatever the issue is, it is probably not simple to resolve because there are games that perform just as well on Ryzen or indeed a few that actually perform better with Nvidia on Ryzen than Intel.
I am not entirely convinced the whole issue is down to Nvidia, because it is complex and there are well designed games that work well with Nvidia GPUs on Ryzen.
In fact the biggest trend issue is when it is a DX12 game that is a 'hacked' improved version by the dev/studio of original DX11 game, suggesting that these games involve factors beyond just Nvidia.
Especially as other ground up DX12 games do not necessarily show the same behaviour such as AotS.
There are DX11 and DX12 games that run fine using Nvidia GPU on Ryzen, there are others that do not.
Definitely not a simple issue.
Cheers
 
Aren't you guys forgetting that Bulldozer did well under Nvidia drivers.
KazeoHin said:
It's easy to figure. Weigh the costs of paying their driver team to optimise thier drivers for Ryzen versus the potential losses they will take if every well-educated, Ryzen owning PC enthusiast (not a huge number) who happens to want a mid-range card (as AMD has nothing to compete above the 1070, so above an RX 580 they have no choice) chooses not to buy an nvidia product.

The potential losses are miniscule. Only the hardest of the hardcore Ryzen owners believe that Nvidia gimps thier CPUs, meanwhile how many of them have NO CHOICE but to buy Nvidia if they want a high-performance GPU.

ON TOP OF THAT: how many sales has AMD lost due to the multitude of reviews showing that Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 are a few % behind in gaming compared to an equally priced Intel product? Money lost for AMD is money they can't spend on making a new GPU. It does not benefit Nvidia to gimp AMD in every way they can, but I'll be damned if they are in a rush to fix AMD related problems any time soon.
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That is why Nvidia still performed well with Bulldozer.

CSI_PC said:
Whatever the issue is, it is probably not simple to resolve because there are games that perform just as well on Ryzen or indeed a few that actually perform better with Nvidia on Ryzen than Intel.
I am not entirely convinced the whole issue is down to Nvidia, because it is complex and there are well designed games that work well with Nvidia GPUs on Ryzen.
In fact the biggest trend issue is when it is a DX12 game that is a 'hacked' improved version by the dev/studio of original DX11 game, suggesting that these games involve factors beyond just Nvidia.
Especially as other ground up DX12 games do not necessarily show the same behaviour such as AotS.
There are DX11 and DX12 games that run fine using Nvidia GPU on Ryzen, there are others that do not.
Definitely not a simple issue.
Cheers
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The issue in DX12 is simple , maybe Nvidia drivers are just not that good as they are cranked up to be in the first place.

The underlying issue is simple there is only one cpu that is basically the same it took the same roads it did before it was faster using the same roads. Now there is a new cpu which takes a new approach and have different results , not that weird that you will get performance differences , if you go back to when Bulldozer was launched you prolly will find that it was not much different for Bulldozer.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
The issue in DX12 is simple , maybe Nvidia drivers are just not that good as they are cranked up to be in the first place.

The underlying issue is simple there is only one cpu that is basically the same it took the same roads it did before it was faster using the same roads. Now there is a new cpu which takes a new approach and have different results , not that weird that you will get performance differences , if you go back to when Bulldozer was launched you prolly will find that it was not much different for Bulldozer.
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The issue may be CCX to CCX communication.

And Rocket League is DX9 for example. And for DX12? Look at Civ6.
 
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Pieter3dnow said:
Aren't you guys forgetting that Bulldozer did well under Nvidia drivers.


That is why Nvidia still performed well with Bulldozer.



The issue in DX12 is simple , maybe Nvidia drivers are just not that good as they are cranked up to be in the first place....
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If it is that simple why does Nvidia perform well with newer DX12 games or those designed ground up as DX12 and not those that were at times pushed by AMD (several games) were in essence DX11 engines hacked to be DX12 (Hitman/RoTR/Deus Ex/Warhammer/etc)?
Nvidia works well in Civ6/AoTS/Gears of War 4/etc.
The requirement is of course to bypass any internal benchmarks and also to use a 3rd party tool such as PresentMon.
Ironically AoTS that used to be an AMD pushed benchmark actually performs better on Ryzen with Nvidia than it does on Intel.
720p is not necessarily ideal once Nvidia changed their arch more in Maxwell/Pascal and possibly creating different bottleneck - was touched upon by a dev (worked for one of the studios owned by Ubisoft) on another forum site awhile back; but that gives a testing headache between deciding which resolutions is more ideal and important to readers and critically purpose of test.

There is/was an additional issue of some kind with GP102 cards on Ryzen though, and it has some very wierd performance results.
Cheers
 
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You are forgetting that DX12 is a different animal from DX11 , the work is done by the programmer in DX12 not by the driver team. Some code might actually be pretty fast for Ryzen other might struggle, if Oxide can "fix" their engine which they acknowledged that tells you more about the situation then anything else.
 
Shintai said:
The issue may be CCX to CCX communication.

And Rocket League is DX9 for example. And for DX12? Look at Civ6.
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If this is true, if I only enabled 4 cores? It should theroetically stop my random frame drops no?
 
kyriptic said:
If this is true, if I only enabled 4 cores? It should theroetically stop my random frame drops no?
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You would need to disable 4 cores on the same CCX to ensure no CCX crosstalk, but theoretically yes it may improve performance. I would also try faster ram around 3200mhz if you are not using that already.
 
Presbytier said:
You would need to disable 4 cores on the same CCX to ensure no CCX crosstalk, but theoretically yes it may improve performance. I would also try faster ram around 3200mhz if you are not using that already.
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Yeah I'm already running higher than 3200. : \
 
It is still a really new platform. It probably is not top priority at the moment for Nvidia. Once the platform matures and grows Nvidia allocate more resources to get Ryzen up to snuff. Cock blocking Ryzen would make no seance to Nvidia's bottom line.
 
kyriptic said:
If this is true, if I only enabled 4 cores? It should theroetically stop my random frame drops no?
Click to expand...

Presbytier said:
You would need to disable 4 cores on the same CCX to ensure no CCX crosstalk, but theoretically yes it may improve performance. I would also try faster ram around 3200mhz if you are not using that already.
Click to expand...

You dont need to disable them

You can use my software. Project Mercury and enable "NO CCX switching"
That will keep your game on running on only one CCX while the othe CCX can handle background load to free up ressoruce on the CCX dedicated to your game.
Also no need to reboot.

http://www.techcenter.dk
download section is to the right
 
NVIDIA just began promoting their preconfigured "battlebox" pcs and they included ryzen options.

No conspiracy here. Growing pains is my guess.
 
TheHobbyist said:
NVIDIA just began promoting their preconfigured "battlebox" pcs and they included ryzen options.

No conspiracy here. Growing pains is my guess.
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Wasn't really trying to say it was a conspiracy, more everyone was bashing 1080p benchmarks on ryzen and noticed this RL problem. Maybe the bashing should be directed at Nvidia drivers is what I was trying to get at.
 
SvenBent said:
You dont need to disable them

You can use my software. Project Mercury and enable "NO CCX switching"
That will keep your game on running on only one CCX while the othe CCX can handle background load to free up ressoruce on the CCX dedicated to your game.
Also no need to reboot.

http://www.techcenter.dk
download section is to the right
Click to expand...

Nice thanks for the info will try it out tonight and see if I still get these weird frame drops.
 
So I tried mercury with CCX disable still get the random frame drops, so I guess it's safe to go back to its all Nvidia's fault? lol
 
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