Is The Self-Driving Car Un-American?

M76 said:
That shows very well how little you know about how self driving cars actually work. And that still doesn't stop you from makeing judgements about it.

  1. GPS in your phone is the worst least reliable type of GPS in existence.Which you conflate with some blatant exaggeration it would seem.
  2. GPS in self driving cars is used only for navigation, it doesn't maneuver based on GPS.
  3. A proper RTK GPS has a positional accuracy of 1-2cm with good satellite coverage (meaning 7 tracked satellites) and it still has 15-20cm with bad satellite coverage which is more than enough to determine which street the car is actually on.
  4. I assume self driving cars have at least a MEMS based IMU that can still provide satisfactory positional data even when there is zero satellite coverage, (in dense forests or tunnels) for navigation. If it didn't have that I'd be skeptical too.
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Nice attempt at moving goalposts.

You were talking about how a system can ONLY do what it was programmed to do.
I illustrated a situation where a system was NOT doing what it was programmed to do. Either due to a software or hardware fault.

That was my point. But thanks for the needless education on GPS.

I think I'm done with this conversation. It's not productive in any way shape or form.
 
Chas said:
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Fine. Since you already admit you don't know anything about the functionality of GPS on cell phones, your situation that you used already points out you were in a poorly covered area. Again GPS on phones is not dependent on GPS satellites but cell towers which only works well due to a number of reasons that just flew right over your head in the previous post.

Again not even remotely comparable to self-driving cars.
 
Chas said:
Then tell me how the GPS on my phone can tell me I'm on one street one minute and another street, three blocks over and four blocks up the next minute...




You've never seen truly mediocre code then. And for that you should be eternally grateful.
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Do you seriously think something that directly impacts public safety would be allowed to go with the same scrutiny as video games and less than mediocre coding? Not only would there be rigorous testing, with government standards coming in the future, the financial incentive to not cause damage and loss of human life is massive. Saving $2 milliom on coding is nothing compared to a billiom dollar lawsuit.
 
Tsumi said:
Do you seriously think something that directly impacts public safety would be allowed to go with the same scrutiny as video games and less than mediocre coding? Not only would there be rigorous testing, with government standards coming in the future, the financial incentive to not cause damage and loss of human life is massive. Saving $2 milliom on coding is nothing compared to a billiom dollar lawsuit.
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The one thing I've learned is that a lot of the companies that hire so called genius programmers for these high end stuff end up failing through their own hubris. That's what worries me. Yes, I don't have faith in the programmers at Google and Tesla when it comes to trying to get a working autonomous car.
 
Nytegard said:
The one thing I've learned is that a lot of the companies that hire so called genius programmers for these high end stuff end up failing through their own hubris. That's what worries me. Yes, I don't have faith in the programmers at Google and Tesla when it comes to trying to get a working autonomous car.
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I have nothing relevant to add to this comment. However, it did make me think of my favorite quote from the original Ridge Racer game.

"You're one ggggeeeeeennnnniiiiuuuuussss of a driver! You've gotta teach mmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!"
 
Is a driver-less care un-American? What kind of an un-American question is that?

A driver-less car is EXACTLY the kind of thing Americans would do. America has a very long history of making the menial work inconsequential so that humans could spend more time doing more advanced work.

Think of the things Americans have made:
  • Cotton Gin
  • Combine Harvester
  • Microwave
  • Hay Baler
  • Clothes Washing Machine
  • Morse Code
  • Dishwashing machine
  • Mass Produced Car
Why do Americans make these things? Because these are things that solve the problems of jobs that have to be done. If you want to be a scientist or sit at a desk all day, who is going to do these things that must be done? Usually in the past it was other humans, usually in the form of slaves (or servants in the nice wording). Americans didn't use slaves to work fields in it's early history because they just plain hated black people. They used slaves because that was the accepted solution to needing large amounts of manual labor. But as America paved the way in human rights, they realized that these manual labor jobs that humans have always had to do could be replaced by machines, that we do not have to have moral feelings about.

So yes, making a car that moves humans around while they engage in other things is exactly the kind of thing Americans do. It doesn't mean we hate driving. It just means those who enjoy it as a hobby can continue doing so, and those who have better things to do can do those things instead.
 
westrock2000 said:
But as America paved the way in human rights, they realized that these manual labor jobs that humans have always had to do could be replaced by machines, that we do not have to have moral feelings about.
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What are they teaching kids in history classes these days?! We were basically last to outlaw slavery and then various policies kept previous slaves from benefits and full rights of citizenship for another 100 years after that. I thought it was common knowledge that slavery ended after it became too expensive and not due to human rights.

Anyway, the car has a special significance and role to the United States. There exists numerous academic and popular books about the subject. Entire cities are constructed with the underlying assumption that people have personal transportation. There are still many places in the US, and in particular as you move west, that you simply can't live in a space without your own vehicle. This cultural issue is something that I've always suspected would present the most significant barrier to this level of technology.
 
mope54 said:
What are they teaching kids in history classes these days?! We were basically last to outlaw slavery and then various policies kept previous slaves from benefits and full rights of citizenship for another 100 years after that. I thought it was common knowledge that slavery ended after it became too expensive and not due to human rights.
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Africa was the last continent to fully outlaw slavery.......about 10 years ago. 1865.....2007....basically the same.

Hate to tell you this, but America didn't invent slavery. It was a defacto solution to the needs of society (and was almost universally supported for most of human history). And that 100 years of transition...that's normal. A society doesn't just wake up one day and void every policy and tradition it had. That's now how social progress works. It takes generations for mindsets to be changed.
 
Maddy_Smith said:
I understand the worries about the safety around the computer system and the potential failures. But I guess it has huge potential and could be enjoyable for everyone J

I think we need to consider people who cannot drive and need to, as older people, it could be really amazing for them!

I love driving as well and yes, the option to take back the control of the car is appealing as previous mentioned.

Also, I was wondering that if sharing self-driving car could be a good idea?
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Maddy_Smith, welcome to the [H].
 
I welcome the day I can go out and not have to stay below my drinking threshold because KITT will take me home lol. Or hell even just late at night, dont have to go slam a redbull before driving home. With human reaction time being average of 100ms, there is a lot the computer and sensors in a car can process in that timespan.

Think of how dangerous our normal functions are, we blink, cough, sneeze, look away. Heck if someone pulls out in front of us and almost hits us, adrenaline gets released and now you are shaky and not thinking clearly for a few minutes increasing risk of another incident. Car computer won't. No it wont be perfect, but sure would be a nice feature.
 
Darunion said:
I welcome the day I can go out and not have to stay below my drinking threshold because KITT will take me home lol. Or hell even just late at night, dont have to go slam a redbull before driving home. With human reaction time being average of 100ms, there is a lot the computer and sensors in a car can process in that timespan.

Think of how dangerous our normal functions are, we blink, cough, sneeze, look away. Heck if someone pulls out in front of us and almost hits us, adrenaline gets released and now you are shaky and not thinking clearly for a few minutes increasing risk of another incident. Car computer won't. No it wont be perfect, but sure would be a nice feature.
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From the way some people talk you would think that humans are the most infallible machines, and nothing people make will surpass people.
 
when I was a lot younger I saw a bumper sticker that said "Don't ban high performance cars , ban low performance drivers"...always remembered that...now I drive this to offset 11 Prius' ...no computer , no autonomous bs , just the joy of driving which requires a certain amount of paying attention

DSCF5311.jpg


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and of course no self driving car would allow you to take advantage of this great blessing:

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Killahurtz said:
when I was a lot younger I saw a bumper sticker that said "Don't ban high performance cars , ban low performance drivers"...always remembered that...now I drive this to offset 11 Prius' ...no computer , no autonomous bs , just the joy of driving which requires a certain amount of paying attention
and of course no self driving car would allow you to take advantage of this great blessing:
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Try commuting in stop and go traffic. Not much joy in that.
And the irony is. Self driving cars would eventually phase out "low performance drivers"
 
I get no 'fun' whatsoever from driving... the concept genuinely boggles my mind.
 
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This thread is just a long list of reasons why I moved out of the city. Cities are just full of awful drivers in awful cars driving on awful little commutes who have absolutely no concept what the freedom of the road really feels like. Just canned response after canned response from individuals who have never once viewed a car as anything more than a necessary evil to avoid walking and likely have never been more than a few hundred miles from home. I feel more pity reading this than I do anything else.

Edit: I should state that I think self driving cars inside major cities will be a great thing. Honestly the majority of those people shouldn't be allowed to drive anything bigger than a shopping cart anyhow and likely will live their entire lives never having actually "driven" anywhere.
 
I say people living in big cities should have self driving cars. But the rest of us living out in the boonies should not.
 
You guys realize this is a thread necro'd by a 1 post poster, that oddly seems to have drawn in more potential free iPads.
 
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How is embracing technological advancement and using it to better lives un-american?
 
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Dekoth-E- said:
This thread is just a long list of reasons why I moved out of the city. Cities are just full of awful drivers in awful cars driving on awful little commutes who have absolutely no concept what the freedom of the road really feels like. Just canned response after canned response from individuals who have never once viewed a car as anything more than a necessary evil to avoid walking and likely have never been more than a few hundred miles from home. I feel more pity reading this than I do anything else.

Edit: I should state that I think self driving cars inside major cities will be a great thing. Honestly the majority of those people shouldn't be allowed to drive anything bigger than a shopping cart anyhow and likely will live their entire lives never having actually "driven" anywhere.
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And long drives are worst.
 
thejokker said:
Triggered? So I am speaking with a child...

Encouraging people to surrender their self-control and self-reliance (i.e. free will) is functionally the same as encouraging people to accept being a peasant or worse a slave. That is offensive to me. You are being brainwashed into accepting a role as a compliant servant of your elite masters. That makes you a weakling.

There are many like me who are masters of our own destinies. I choose when to go someplace. I choose my route. I choose. I will not be controlled by a machine. As you grow older you will realize I am the majority and I reject your choice of surrender.

Clearly you are emerging into the world after years of being feminized by our educational system. You presume yourself to be intelligent and enlightened but you are at a severe disadvantage as you are not prepared to face the world as a man. Bigger dinosaurs ate smaller dinosaurs. Two galaxies collide and the larger black hole in the center of one consumes the smaller. That is the reality of the universe and the silly notions of Social Justice Warriors only makes more likely to that they function as prey in a harsh world. Not a good strategy for survival on planet earth...

(Spare me the lecture on cars; as a "Car Guy" I know more about cars than you...)
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Someone using the word triggered in any serious fashion such as was done is definitely not an adult, mentally at least.
 
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