Is network/system admin the IT field I should go into?

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LawGiver

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so like most if not all of you here im pretty good with computers. i was looking at IT jobs and system admin seemed to be most in line with what I do now for fun...deciding what i want, buying parts, putting them together, testing them, and making sure everything is working right, etc.(but of course of a larger scale). Am I right in coming to this conclusion? I don't know any programming or even scripting for that matter, so i figured systems engineer field is not right direction, as i think you have to know programming. thanks for any advice/clarification. :)
 
System administration generally involves maintaining a Windows domain. Managing systems, ensuring patching and virus updates are maintained, moving accounts around. Occasionally you could be required to upgrade memory, install a server, or replace a hard drive. It could differ depending on the OS involved but one thing is for sure: you won't be building custom boxes.

Network administration involves maintaining the network infrastructure of routers and switches. Usually this is Cisco, but not necessarily. This involves port security (ensuring only authorized systems connect to your network), maintaining your companies connection to the world, maintenance (IOS upgrades, part replacements). This can involve installing or designing networks.

Most employers now want you to do both. They don't want to hire a network administrator and a system administrator. They want to hire one person with both certifications and pay half the price.
 
I like SMB Consulting ...basically design/install/configure/setup/and support networks for small to medium businesses. From top to bottom.

Work with different people all the time, different places, doing different things. I like that it's not cookie cutter "same ol' same ol' " all the time. And you get to work with a lot of different things, servers, firewalls, e-mail, managed antivirus, etc.
 
SMB consulting sounds like systems engineering, no? is there a different title for this role?
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I like SMB Consulting ...basically design/install/configure/setup/and support networks for small to medium businesses. From top to bottom.

Work with different people all the time, different places, doing different things. I like that it's not cookie cutter "same ol' same ol' " all the time. And you get to work with a lot of different things, servers, firewalls, e-mail, managed antivirus, etc.
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+1 for this. I started off working doing freelance stuff like this, then went to work for a large datacenter, hated it because it was purely cookie cutter, left and went to work for a small hosting company and loved it, moved and went back to work for a global financial company, again hated it because you never got to make any of your own decisions, left and am now working for a small company that does MSP and Security for businesses under 200 employees.

I love it because when I take on a project I get to do everything my way. I certainly get input from my team, but instead of having someone walk into my office and say "We need another 13 servers" and call up my hardware rep and say "We need another 13 of the usual" someone comes into my office and says "We have a client that has 50 seats, needs exchange, BES, AD, sharepoint, SQL, and a web server. They also need a new firewall, switches, and probably will need a SAN. Get back to me in a week with a quote." I love it because I get to design the network from the ground up. I get to use all brand new stuff, I get to work with up to date server and software platforms instead of having to deal with an infrastructure where even though we are running top of the line server hardware we are running Server 2000 SP4 because there is one LOB app that doesn't run on anything else.

My recommendation would be go get your CCNA and MCSE, then go find a nice junior admin job. The problem with the IT world is that most places will require you to have College + Certs + 4 years of experience so getting your foot in the door can be quite a PITA. However once you do, especially if you are working under someone who has some good experience and is willing to pass that on to you, you are pretty set. I would also defiantly recommending building yourself a home lab because books and classrooms can only teach you so much, and customers usually don't like it when you "try stuff out" on their production environments.
 
^what is your job title?

ive been looking at those certs. i already have a bs in business, should i get Msc in computer science or just focus on passing certs? what about the new MCITP certs? and whats MSP?:)
 
LawGiver said:
^what is your job title?

ive been looking at those certs. i already have a bs in business, should i get Msc in computer science or just focus on passing certs? what about the new MCITP certs? and whats MSP?:)
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Systems Engineer \ Network Architect, though I'm not too sure I agree with it. Just remember that a SE title has many different meanings and it really depends on where you work to define their job. I have many friends who have the job title of Systems Admin who have the same role as me, but I also have others who are considered a Systems Engineer who share almost nothing in common with my job description other then the name and the fact that hardware is involved.

As far as school goes, if you have the certs and the experience no one cares what you did in school. I have one year of a CS degree under my belt, but at the time I didn't really care about class and cared more about my job, and my projects so I left school to work full time. I can tell you I learned more on a saturday shift with one of our lead engineers then I did in a whole year of school.

MSP is Managed service provider. Basically we sell our service to clients telling them we can do just simple network monitoring and alerting them when things break, all the way to being a full time outsourced IT department. The bulk of our clients opt for just the network monitoring as they have an IT guy on staff who can usually take care of everything, however they usually will opt to pay a slight premium so that if they are having issues they can call us for help. It is nice because 90% of my week I am not dealing with end users.

I haven't really researched the new certs, so I can't give you too much insight on them. My company has offered to help any employee who wants certs (training, paying for the test, etc) however we are usually busy enough that no one has really had time to get new certs. I find that I only got mine as a resume builder, and now that I have enough experience I really haven't used them as a qualification. Most guys in my office keep theirs current, but haven't actually gotten a new one in about 3ish years.
 
yeah i guess you acutally should be called a system/network admin. :) not sure but system engineer/architect seems like a temporary thing to me. you help an org get setup with computers and network and then move on to next company, since if you stayed on to maintain it youd acutally be doing admin. i didnt realize until today how confusing this whole thing is, trying to figure out what exactly would makes most sense for me to go into given my current skills. trying to go back to school and im debating IT or health, lol.
 
true, but before that happens i have to know what its called.:) i might go to my local community college to get some hands on view, cause im still having a tough time getting my head around what a network admin does. and as ive read today certs dont matter if you dont have any experience in IT. i did first level help desk for UPS (remote desktop,break/fix,troubleshooting printers over phone) but thats about it, no network stuff other than occasional system with a crapped out dial up modem lol.
 
Protoform-X said:
The job title isn't what matters. Just find a job doing what you want to do.
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+1

If you can't find what you want to do find what you enjoy doing. Systems and Network administration is not for me. I prefer the security side of things now.
 
so ive been reading for like 8 hours now about what each job is isnt and im 99% sure i wanna go into system administration. and i understand that these days you gotta know your network stuff too. but i have a question, there are SOOOOO many different required skills for a sys admin, like here

http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/se...strator&Ntk=JobSearchRanking&TAXTERM=0&No=120

like where do i start? :p also, i see some, not many, of postings specifically require a 4 year BS in computer science. u guys think its worth it to me to get a one, even though i already have a BS in business? i was thinking getting an AS from a gateway community college as they are reputable and not too expensive:

http://www.gatewaycc.edu/InformationTechnology/

thanks for the advice.
 
LawGiver said:
so ive been reading for like 8 hours now about what each job is isnt and im 99% sure i wanna go into system administration. and i understand that these days you gotta know your network stuff too. but i have a question, there are SOOOOO many different required skills for a sys admin, like here

http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/se...strator&Ntk=JobSearchRanking&TAXTERM=0&No=120

like where do i start? :p also, i see some, not many, of postings specifically require a 4 year BS in computer science. u guys think its worth it to me to get a one, even though i already have a BS in business? i was thinking getting an AS from a gateway community college as they are reputable and not too expensive:

http://www.gatewaycc.edu/InformationTechnology/

thanks for the advice.
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Bumping this back up. I've been in the field for 5yrs, have certs, and have a B.S.I.T.

Dislcaimer: I am the jack of all trades (position in Operations). I wish I was the SME instead.

My suggestion: Learn the piss out of networking or Oracle. Otherwise you'll potentially never clear 6 figures. Would you rather be the jack of all trades who keeps things running smoothly or the consultant (SME that can make your equipment cry) who swoops in when the sh*t hits the fan and saves the day? Who do you think they'll pay more? Can't do anything without a network or the DB being down.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I like SMB Consulting ...basically design/install/configure/setup/and support networks for small to medium businesses. From top to bottom.

Work with different people all the time, different places, doing different things. I like that it's not cookie cutter "same ol' same ol' " all the time. And you get to work with a lot of different things, servers, firewalls, e-mail, managed antivirus, etc.
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I agree with YeOldeStonecat.
 
C7J0yc3 said:
getting your foot in the door can be quite a PITA. However once you do, especially if you are working under someone who has some good experience and is willing to pass that on to you, you are pretty set.
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This is one of the best comments I've seen on here in a long time. College and Certs aside, if you can work under someone that has tons of experience and is actually willing to show you things instead of just saying "I'll handle it" then you will be set.

I had that advantage at my last job with my IT Director taking me under his wing. I started there as a Level 1, and with his encouragement went on to Level 2, then Level 3, until I was a Senior Level 3 working directly underneath him and being his go to guy for projects and day to day administration of the network and servers. When I left there I was in a position to be able to preform work at the Engineer level and that's exactly where I ended up.

Network Engineer (with a lot of systems administration thrown in)

I am THE person for any server and network related issues for the entire company. The certs that I have only got me the interview. It was the experience that got me the job.
 
LawGiver said:
i already have a bs in business
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So do most managers and executives... ;) :p

My two cents... like most others have said, being more autonomous usually equals greater job enjoyment. I've spent the last 5 years working for two different SMB's, I like knowing the people I work with on a first name basis regardless if it's the CEO or the janitor, being able to talk to them by their first name helps the rapport and if you're not a d-bag can help IT's image as well.

Also, getting under someone who will show you what they are doing when they are doing it and give you opportunities to learn is invaluable.

 
Don't forget you may have to deal with end users.. that part I really struggle with. I would love to be more advanced and have an intern or help desk guy take that part of my job away... I get more frustrated with end user issues every day.
 
ciggwin said:
Don't forget you may have to deal with end users.. that part I really struggle with.
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If you can't overcome that you'll never get promoted into management. It is the system engineers that have the people skills that make it to be IT Directors.
 
My goal is to move away from anything IT related, mainly, users that cannot embrace technology, and just state that computers are stupid any time they did something wrong.

I get a lot of calls, what burns my ass is when someone says "it said it can't connect because of xxx" where xxx=some reason not even possible, and then when I tell them I want to see the error, they stand down, but go tell someone else, who comes and says the same thing, then I finally get the error and its something user initiated. The other one that irks me is when they bitch about something simple, outlook won't get or send my emails but my phone does...is outlook in oiffline mode? And then its 20min of what they are working on, but never the answer I need.

I don't know, I love setting it up, deploying, and managing the stuff, I just hate the users. When you have users that know what is going on, its cake, its pleasurable, its highly productive and I love it. I love being able to give something to a user, and see them smile, become more productive, and really embrace it. I got one guy, he's 68, he used to just bitch about his laptop, about the software, about everything. I got him a brand new laptop, win7, office 2007, I thought it was going to be a shit storm, its proven to ve perfect zen, I thought he was going to get bent out off shape about office 2007, nadda.

IDK.

If you want a fool-proof job in terms of availability, get into supply chain management. Me, I am getting into more management-based stuff at the organization I am working at. I wear a few hats, but the one I want to hang up, or wear less, is IT, I am going to get everyone I can on the terminal server, get the cals n shit, and make it cake to admin.

My 2.5 cents.
 
System Admin here, i build custom servers and desktops and everything else, but we are also a very small company so i have those freedoms.
 
My suggestion is once you get a job being a sys admin or whatever keep moving and get as far away from users as possible

Network Engineer, System Engineer, Architect, Higher level consulting

I really enjoyed being a senior system engineer I worked on large VM design/deployment and other big projects no annoying end users.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
If you can't overcome that you'll never get promoted into management. It is the system engineers that have the people skills that make it to be IT Directors.
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Yeah, if you want to be an IT Director in the first place, I would say you have to love working with people. I used to, but it's so political, frustrating, and the majority of the time you are fighting a losing battle that doesn't even make sense in the first place... so I'll stick to the server room ;)

LZ1 said:
My suggestion is once you get a job being a sys admin or whatever keep moving and get as far away from users as possible

Network Engineer, System Engineer, Architect, Higher level consulting

I really enjoyed being a senior system engineer I worked on large VM design/deployment and other big projects no annoying end users.
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This is a great path if you don't have the people-person ability (or just don't like it) :cool:
 
Luckily you can opt to become a "brain" rather than a manager in the IT field and still make plenty of money.
 
i got further away from users, but am now kind of getting back into it, i do miss it at times, but my users also learn quick and i provide documentation for things like adding accounts to an IM client, pictures and all.
 
Dear LawGiver

There's no fixed rule in this field, but if you do supporting works,

1. Almost all users have computing work problem/issues one way or another.
2. As a result, you have 99% chance to work with 99% of the end users.
3. If you have the necessary attitude, understanding and willingness, this is an environment that will expose you to working, and more, enjoying living with people. If you are in mega-corp, it could be 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands, could be even more. Emphasis, you must have the right mindset/determination.

Now, to give you an alternative example.
1. There are a lot of aspiring new musicians.
2. Most musicians need audience. You will discover a lot of musicians on the starting point do a lot of things pretty hard but it takes huge amount of everything and anything, including the luck with the audience to find a way out. And having an audience is not easy.

It takes a lot of things in life to have a chance to meet with a huge audience, just saying.
 
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sc0tty8 said:
My goal is to move away from anything IT related, mainly, users that cannot embrace technology, and just state that computers are stupid any time they did something wrong.
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I'm in the same boat basically, I'm burned out with it. I've been dealing with computers since the mid 90's as far repairing them etc..I jumped into the networking/admin/desktop support(jack of all trades) side about 6 years ago and realized I didn't like it. I worked in a corporate environment which rubbed me the wrong way completely. The amount of back stabbing and overall phony BS that went on was incredible. Dealing with users is a another post, I don't want to get started. I had a few gigs after that but at that point I was jaded. I got out of it and I'm glad I did.

It's a good field if you have the skills and the patience. I had the skill but I lost my patience and then my interest. I'm rusty with the networking side now so my skills there aren't what they were either.
 
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number69 said:
I'm in the same boat basically, I'm burned out with it. I've been dealing with computers since the mid 90's as far repairing them etc..I jumped into the networking/admin/desktop support(jack of all trades) side about 6 years ago and realized I didn't like it. I worked in a corporate environment which rubbed me the wrong way completely. The amount of back stabbing and overall phony BS that went on was incredible. Dealing with users is a another post, I don't want to get started. I had a few gigs after that but at that point I was jaded. I got out of it and I'm glad I did.

It's a good field if you have the skills and the patience. I had the skill but I lost my patience and then my interest. I'm rusty with the networking side now so my skills there aren't what they were either.
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Curious to know what field you're in now?
 
My issue is that everything in IT is cool. Picking just one path is difficult and if you love technology in general and are curious all the time in all aspects, God help you. You'll be like me and never have picked anything to deep dive into.
 
The farther you get away from the users the more the money goes up :)
 
Systems admin at a small company could be fun, a bit more freedom, less political BS and less red tape. Sys admin at big company, less fun, more stress etc.

Good place to start though and you will get a good understanding of IT in general and see what else is available.
 
Once you get into Fortune 500 they will split hairs on responsibilities. At my company we split up the Infrastructure side to desktop, server/storage, and network. I put a 5 port Trendnet switch in my cube at work to wire my multiple machines and the network guy ripped me a new one over the phone. I'm server/storage engineering and was told to not touch the network. :rolleyes:

If you can get into storage engineering (NetApp, EMC and the like) you will be fairly indispensable and well paid, but you will be expected to drop everything and fix any storage problem like your life depended on it.
 
O2Flow said:
Linky no worky for me. Private subforum?
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Yes. Sorry about that, I didn't realize I ventured out of it. There was a preview weekend for it last week, but that first really help you....

Once i get back to a computer i can cross post some of the content.
 
Nocturnal said:
Curious to know what field you're in now?
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Let me clarify a bit, I got out of the corporate environment entirely, I will not go back to it. I work for myself now and i'm picky about who I take on for new clients...keeping it small but I will eventually phase that out completely as well. Fortunately i'm not broke so I have some room to breath and pursue other interests as well. As for the networking side I'm rusty with certain things, not brain dead with it. I used to be able to bang through subnetting years ago in a few minutes with a pen and paper. Not so fast right now, lol.
 
LawGiver said:
so like most if not all of you here im pretty good with computers. i was looking at IT jobs and system admin seemed to be most in line with what I do now for fun...deciding what i want, buying parts, putting them together, testing them, and making sure everything is working right, etc.(but of course of a larger scale). Am I right in coming to this conclusion? I don't know any programming or even scripting for that matter, so i figured systems engineer field is not right direction, as i think you have to know programming. thanks for any advice/clarification. :)
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If you do system administration for a business of decent size, you will not buy parts and build computers. This is way too time consuming in man hours because you have to procure parts individually and then make sure everything works. You outsources stuff like to Dell and buy Optiplex machines or similar. You might consider prebuilt machines to be lower quality, but these guys sell thousands of these machines per day -- so all these customers can't be wrong. You can't seriously expect that you'll be working in an office building hundreds of workstations.

Even evaluating something like antivirus software took me about 3 weeks. I had to make sure that it could cover all points of entry and that it worked well with all our applications as well a figuring out how I want to deploy the software. For 5 or less computers, running around with a CD might not be a big deal, but for hundreds of machines, can you imagine having to sit down at each one for 20 minutes. Even for 100 machines, this will take a week.
 
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