is Navi 12 = Navi 10 + HBM (for apple)

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Marees

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Apparently there is a Navi 12 gpu in the works.

Navi 10 - 5700, 5600 series
Navi 14 - 5500 series
Navi 12 - ??

Czech website diit.cz speculates that Navi 12 could be custom gpu for Apple / Microsoft mobile devices.
It is rumoured to have much lower base clocks and HBM memory too.

Given the narrow price bands in desktop AMD GPUs, I don't expect AMD to release brand new sku between 5500 XT & 5600 XT, in the desktop space.


Navi 12 running at only 1144 MHz appeared in the CompuBench test database

Its results correspond to 2304 stream processors clocked about a third lower than the Radeon RX 5700, except for the Local Tone Mapping 2k test, where Navi 12 comes out as faster than the Radeon RX 5700. This could be due to either faster HBM2 memories or the optimization of (newer) drivers used for testing Navi 12


Original Czech source: https://diit.cz/clanek/navi-12-ma-podobne-parametry-jako-radeon-rx-5600


Google translate version: http://engnews24h.com/navi-12-has-similar-parameters-to-the-radeon-rx-5600/

EDIT : ( link to specs reported in compubench for the rumoured Navi 12 as spotted by twitter user komachi )

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-navi-12-spotted-with-36-compute-units


EDIT 2 : ( linked speculation from red gaming tech )

a rather interesting post that’s appeared on ChipHell from ‘Zoo’ who is a technical employee at AMD. According to him, Navi 12 is essentially Navi 10 – but features HBM2 memory and curiously, seems to be only designed for Apple.

http://www.redgamingtech.com/navi-12-isnt-big-navi-but-instead-navi-10-with-hbm2-rumor/
 
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HBM memory reminds me of Kabylake G apu for Intel NUCs

I wonder who would order such a costly custom chip & why

This is almost as powerful as ps4 pro
 
Marees said:
HBM memory reminds me of Kabylake G apu for Intel NUCs

I wonder who would order such a costly custom chip & why

This is almost as powerful as ps4 pro
Click to expand...

Is apple working on a gaming mac that costs $3000 to $5000, for playing e-sports ???!!!!


https://www.techradar.com/news/is-apple-really-working-on-a-dollar5000-gaming-mac


supply chain sources have hinted that Apple is working on such a machine, which could either be a large-screen all-in-one PC (like the iMac), or a large-screen gaming laptop along the lines of the MacBook Pro 16-inch.


According to the rumors, Apple will reveal the new gaming Mac at its Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) in June 2020
...

It’s not completely out of the question that Apple would be looking to make a gaming device to play Apple Arcade games on, but rather than an ultra-expensive gaming Mac or MacBook to compete with gaming PCs and gaming laptops, Apple would be more likely to release a smaller, more affordable device, like a gaming Mac mini or gaming Apple TV to take on games consoles like the upcoming PS5 and Xbox Series X – Apple Arcade games are compatible with games controllers after all
 
At this point Navi 12 seems to be a like for like replacement for Radeon Vega pro 16 & 20 that were announced in Oct 2018

If we go by a 2 year replacement life cycle, then we can expect an announcement by Apple before October this year.

If Navi 12 is released around October this year, then it is more likely to be RDNA 2 rather than RDNA 1 ( unlike Navi 10 on which it seems to be based )

( For comparison, that could make it almost twice as powerful as the rumored 4teraflop Xbox S, which is also likely based on RDNA 2 )

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...vega-16-and-vega-20-gpu-options-now-available

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-graphics-options-macbook-pro

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/14...pro-amd-radeon-pro-vega-20-16-gpu-options-buy
 
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Marees said:
At this point Navi 12 seems to be a like for like replacement for Radeon Vega pro 16 & 20 that were announced in Oct 2018

If we go by a 2 year replacement life cycle, then we can expect an announcement by Apple before October this year.

If Navi 12 is released around October this year, then it is more likely to be RDNA 2 rather than RDNA 1 ( unlike Navi 10 on which it seems to be based )

( For comparison, that could make it almost twice as powerful as the rumored 4teraflop Xbox S, which is also likely based on RDNA 2 )

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...vega-16-and-vega-20-gpu-options-now-available

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-graphics-options-macbook-pro

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/14...pro-amd-radeon-pro-vega-20-16-gpu-options-buy
Click to expand...

The apple macbook pros with vega 16/20 gpus start from $3000

Using that as a benchmark, the macs with Navi 12 could easily start from $3500


https://techreport.com/news/34258/macbook-pros-with-vega-graphics-options-go-up-for-sale/

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-vega-20-gives-macbook-pro-big-graphics-boost
 
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ND40oz said:
The 5300M and 5500M have replaced the Vega 16 and 20 in the macbooks and have brought the pricing down.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I was under the impression that 5300m & 5500m were replacements for 555x & 560x respectively

Which is why I was thinking that Navi 12 with HBM will replace Vega 16 & Vega 20


https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...nch-macbook-pros-radeon-pro-5000m-series-gpus

Screenshot_2020-01-29-23-07-27-969.jpeg
 
Apple's usage of Vega 20 was two fold: lower power consumption due to HBM (vs. GDDR5) and reduced board space by putting everything onto a single package. Basically a win-win for a company that puts form ahead of function.

The big question I have if is multiple "Navi 12" dies can be linked together to scale upward in GPU performance. Say 2560 shaders per die and two dies would permit a larger 5120 shader GPU to be seen by the host OS. Scale upward as necessary. If you are using HBM, the cost is already there to leverage an interposer for this.
 
I strongly suspect that some of those code names are for the announced but not yet shipping version of the Radeon RX 5700 for the Mac Pro's MPX slots. There is a single and dual RX 5700 board and they'll also have a few TB3 controllers too. These probably get their own code name.

The big one though is Renoir and oddly PIcasso as they point directly to AMD SoC.
 
ND40oz said:
The 5300M and 5500M have replaced the Vega 16 and 20 in the macbooks and have brought the pricing down.
Click to expand...

Looks like Navi 12 released for Apple. (unfortunately RDNA1 & not RDN2) power666

https://hardforum.com/threads/amd-n...s-desktop-class-graphics-performance.1997875/

Snowdog said:
Sorry rumor fans, boring actual news. ;)

AMD's first RDNA GPU chip with HBM. It looks like full fat Navi (40 CUs) with HBM support.
http://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...-16-inch-MacBook-Pro-for-Users-On-the-Go.html


View attachment 253869
Click to expand...
 
The Navi 12 part is an interesting surprise. Probably a play by Apple to reduce motherboard area and further reduce power while keeping performance similar enough to 5600.

The real question is if Apple will continue to leverage custom AMD designs (who else has access to Navi 12?) if/when they switch their Mac line up to ARM. Apple not only has their own CPU design team but also their own internal GPU design team.
 
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