is my IHS not completely flat? or is the contact bad.

T

tvdang7

Supreme [H]ardness
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i got my 146 yesterday from monarch
i put everything together (xp-90 with a pretty fast zalman fan)

i put a VERY thin layer of AS5 with a razor blade

poped everything in 280x 10 at stock voltage 1.4v
and it was idling (no cnq)at 50 and primed at 57+

i was like holy $HIT much hotter than my previous venice 34 idle with cnq and 50 load
10x265 @1.55v

i decided to reseat the heatsink and wow glad i did the xp-90 was only touch the IHS by the edges.nothing in the middle made contact (IHS curving in? or user error? i dont know)

so no mater what i did it didnt touch the middle so i added more AS5 in the middle and now its making better contact. temps are 45 +/- some idle and load is 54 +/- some load.

QUESTIONS

1)are these temps normal for an opteron with an xp-90? i see other people in the 30's
idle with artic freezers and such

2)possible i got one that has a curved IHS? or the IHS and cpu isnt making good contact?
 
My advice to make sure :

Remove the heatsink, clean all the AS on it then put it flat on a glass piece then look at the contact part to see if some light get thru it. If it does, the HS is not flat and need either lapping or getting a better one.

If the HS test show it's flat, you can do the same with the cpu flat on the glass, IHS side down.
 
first off thanks for reading my long post .

and ill try that when i get home.

the las tthing i want to do it lap and remove the IHS
 
tvdang7 said:
i put a VERY thin layer of AS5 with a razor blade
Click to expand...
That's the recommended method for a chip with no IHS, but with an IHS you're supposed to put a dab of AS the size of a grain of rice right in the center of the IHS and the pressure of the HSF will spread it for you.
 
When you reapply AS5, just follow the instructions. Put a small dab on and let the pressure between the heatsink and IHS spread it out...

The other thing as suggested is to check that XP-90 to see if it is pretty flat. I have had about 3 xp-120's that were far from being flat.
 
yea its got a dab now

seems to be really flat i didnt examine it for more then 5 seconds tho but maybe i will when i get home.
 
These guys are dead on. You will find many IHS units that are not flat. The ones today are actually a lot smoother overall than they used to be.

Get you some high grit sandpaper and knock the corners off the IHS on a glass-top table if it is worrying you.
 
alright ill try "knocking" off those corners :) . ive got 100/200/600/800 grit sand paper from a previous lap would i need something more like 1000/2000?
 
ok today a cold fonrt blew in. its like 50 degress and yesterday is was like 70 degress(outside temps of course.. indoor i have no idea but it compliments the outdoor temps nicely).....my load temps dropped to 45 now. thats crazy. so many factors. im still gonna knock off those corners soon.
 
CoW]8(0) said:
They're usually slightly raised at the corners?

How far should the lap go? If you're lapping, should you go past the zinc plating and stop when you hit copper?
Click to expand...

I've never done it myself but that's how I've always seen an IHS lap go. The metal is pretty thick and it would take a pretty hefty amount of lapping to actually go through the entire IHS...so I'd go until I hit copper and a tad more.

Wait until someone with more personal experience adds to this, though, before you do it.
 
I understand its a integrated heat spreader, but I dont know what the hell that is. Could someone clarify for me?
 
It's a hunk of nickle plated copper that sits between the silicon and your heatsink. It is supposed to "spread" the heat, but in actuality it's there for idiots who crack cores during installation of coolers. Most of the heat flux goes straight through the IHS to the heatsink. There is a TIM of cruddy grease between it and the slug so you would see a higher drop in temps by removing the IHS altogether than lapping the IHS. However, I would only use bolt-on type coolers with the naked die because unlike the old Athy XP's and P3 (pre-cD0), the clip type heatsinks can chip the core as it's more likely to apply uneven pressure (these types of heatsinks are designed with the IHS in mind). I'm not sure if the XP90 is a bolt-on HS. Lapping the IHS may be fine, but don't bother with going for the mirror finish. 600 grit is all that's needed. Use a mirror to place the sandpaper on because they are built to a more flat spec than most glass is.

IDK how pressing down on the pins for pressure will work out for lapping the IHS, but you don't need much pressure. Just make sure to mask off the pins because you don't want the IHS particulate getting in there.
 
Lapping a CPU always scared the bejeebers out of me anytime I ever considered it. How's the best way? Wet? Dry? Sandblast?
 
It is very likely that the IHS is to blame. Carefully examine both the IHS and the base of the cpu cooler with a new razorblade. As said before, do this by placing the razor's cutting edge normal to the surface you are examining and put them up to a light source. If you see any light peeping through, that part is lower than the rest, assuming the razor blade is flat. Rotate your surface a few times and repeat the above.

The IHS on my opteron 146 was concave when I bought it. Even on a custom high end watercooling system (check sig) my idle was at 46C and load at 54C, even in a room at about 27C. I relapped my waterblock, remounted several times, and even tried a few different thermal pastes. I saw no improvement until I removed the IHS altogether. Afterwards, my idle and loads dropped a lot - by around 13-15C overall.

You can probably get better results if you lap the IHS, but I would think that lapping would be just as dangerous as removing it. If you are sanding (with water) I'd think it would be easier to bend pins or get foreign material into the chip than remove the IHS altogether. But hey, if you are careful it should work fine. I suppose it would be just as easy to cut a trace with a razorblade. Anyway, as a precaution I would place the pins in a foam substance such as that your CPU was shipped with. It helps a LOT when it comes to keeping the pins straight.

Oh, sometimes the IHS isn't to blame - it can be the crappy thermal paste they use between the IHS and core. Just keep this in mind.

One last thing - do NOT remove the IHS if you have a non-bolting cooler. If your CPU cooler is similar to that of the stock AMD one, do NOT remove the IHS. Due to the mounting mechanism, it is very easy to crack the core due to the nature of the way it mounts - it puts uneven pressure on the core. Modern cpu cores can take normal distributed loads just fine, but when it comes to pressure at a point or edge, they become much easier to crack.

I hope this helps, and good luck :).
 
maybe...........ill just keep the cpu like it is...........guess i was cursed with a bad IHS but hey 2.8 on stock is pretty nice. just was wishing for lower temps since i am on stock voltage. and my venice with 1.55 v got better temps. owell dont fix what isnt broken i soppose.
 
What would be a good substitute for the foam material that came with the CPU?

Has anyone here lapped their IHS before?
 
If you're game for lapping it, and worried about temps, why not just remove the IHS all together.
 
styleboy said:
If you're game for lapping it, and worried about temps, why not just remove the IHS all together.
Click to expand...
because the IHS is a godsend for people that are even using large heatsinks.
 
Elipsn said:
is the ninja a bolt on style heatsink?
Click to expand...
Please for heaven sakes don't use a ninja on a naked chip. Its a clip method. On naked chips only use bolt through. They really don't make these sinks anymore. Best bet is to find a SLK-948U, or go W/Cing.
 
Anyone have experience with lapping their IHS? Any substitute materials for the foam insert which comes with the CPU?
 
UPDATE!

i installed a new abit an8 ultra and now my temps are around 20 idle(CNQ on) 25 idle(CNQ off) and 36 load stock voltages .


is this right? im so confused!! i used to be 40 idle and 50 load!

so which motherboard has the bad temperature sensor ?
my old ax8 or my new an8?
 
That's actually hard to tell. Can't let what we want our temps to be to bias our judgement.

Assuming most things constant when you mounted this new board, what we do know is at least 1 of the motherboards is wrong.

If you're really not seeing good contact and that only the edges of the IHS touched the HSF, I think it might be worth the IHS lap. What's stopping me is the lack of answers for the questions I asked.
 
3rd option, remove the IHS, lap it, put it back on. Just a dab of silicon glue at each corner to hold it on after reassembly.

The IHS's are seriously concave, it's pretty FK'd up.

Also the only place that HUMANS work on A64's at the factory is the dab of goop on the core under the IHS. If it was not done well, you can have hotspots and one core failing prime before the other, all due to a lousy goop job under the IHS.

So you have the chance to redo the goop using AS5, lap the IHS to flat, and further AS5, then install the HSF.

Also, if you have an old AthlonXP.... use the little black rubberbabybuggybumpers on the underside of your HSF if you choose to leave the IHS off, that way you get core crush protection, and the benefit of neked core. Just mark the 4 corners of the CPU area under the HSF, Use a dab of silicon glue to hold the BRBBB's to the underside of the HSF,

That way, you can always use black RTV to reinstall the untouched IHS for warranty return if'n something bad ever happenes to the A64. Not advocating, just noting the thought.
 
Vengance_01 said:
Please for heaven sakes don't use a ninja on a naked chip. Its a clip method. On naked chips only use bolt through. They really don't make these sinks anymore. Best bet is to find a SLK-948U, or go W/Cing.
Click to expand...


I have a Ninja on a naked 3000+. Works fine...
 
The 175 I got recently had a BAD IHS.. the corners were really raised up... I lapped it after I saw how bad my temps were at first, the middle part of the AS5 had not even been touched by the back of the apogee when I pulled the 1st mount apart to check it out.. I was like WTF? after lapping it was muuuuch better.. but I decided to pop it anyways.. heh.. oh well.. I wash shocked at how un-flat it was stock.. really bad!
 
Hey fella's. I lapped my 2800+ a long time ago. Dropped my temps by 6 degrees. It is actually pretty easy. Just get a foam spunge and stick the pins into the foam. You'll have to cut the faom into a square about the size of the chip. Then grab the chip by the foam, with your finger tips holding the edge of the chip put the "assembly" on a peice of glass (I used a picture frame glass) and lapp away. Do the same thing with the heat sink. (minus the foam)
 
I would just take the damn IHS off AND buy a new HSF that bolts on instead of clips
 
^^ qft. I wish more heat sinks should mount with thumb screws.. I mean really.. so much easier to do and safer on open cores!
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
I would just take the damn IHS off AND buy a new HSF that bolts on instead of clips
Click to expand...

I like the clips myself. I have to replace alot of old comps, (reuse the same tower replace board cpu, mem) and sempron is the easiest drop in replacement for most of them.

That clip on HS they use standard is a god send.

But it is also nice to have th option for bolt on coolers.
 
Say with your 146 you have an idle/load of 35/38 with the IHS on (water cooling..apogee). If you were to take the IHS off of it, would temps drop noticibly? Im not talking about 1-2C im talking about 5C range. Also, becuase wc blocks have springs when you tighten, how do you know how far to tighten before you risk compromising the core (remember, this is my only one :p) can it be tight like with the IHS on? or should it just be laying on w/ a tiny amount of pressure? I remember the athlon xp days but they had 4 little pads so you wouldnt crack the core (unless you were really mishandling it). On these, there are no pads. (Maybe you can take the pads off an xp chip? :D)
 
so far 2.92 ghz

multiplier 10
FSB 292
volts 1.525
temps 48 ish load
166 divider (cant believe i had to do this :( ) 1T

cant seem to hit 3ghz tho.

i must be cooling limited since i can prime 3 ghz at 1.55 and it will fail in like 3 mins
temps would be 51+


AHH i want 3ghz air!! how did others do this
 
tvdang7 said:
so far 2.92 ghz

multiplier 10
FSB 292
volts 1.525
temps 48 ish load
166 divider (cant believe i had to do this :( ) 1T

cant seem to hit 3ghz tho.

i must be cooling limited since i can prime 3 ghz at 1.55 and it will fail in like 3 mins
temps would be 51+


AHH i want 3ghz air!! how did others do this
Click to expand...
What memory do you have? And do you have a fan on the memory? Also, what's your HTT multi set to? And lastly, what did you do about your IHS? Your temps still seem a tad high.
 
GilmourD said:
What memory do you have? And do you have a fan on the memory? Also, what's your HTT multi set to? And lastly, what did you do about your IHS? Your temps still seem a tad high.
Click to expand...

in my sig ocz ddr500 2x1 gold kits old kind (personally hit 275 previous owner hit 280)
HTT multi is at 3.
no fan on the memory big gap between power cord and nearest open power slot

my IHS has not been modded in any way. ive came to the conclusion that its pretty flat . and i did not want to sand it and make the color of the IHS change due to resell price decreasing
 
tvdang7 said:
in my sig ocz ddr500 2x1 gold kits old kind (personally hit 275 previous owner hit 280)
HTT multi is at 3.
no fan on the memory big gap between power cord and nearest open power slot

my IHS has not been modded in any way. ive came to the conclusion that its pretty flat . and i did not want to sand it and make the color of the IHS change due to resell price decreasing
Click to expand...
Your voltage isn't all that much higher than mine, and I have lower temps... What's your ambient temp? Maybe you need to AC your room. LOL Also, definitely put a fan on your memory. That could help bump things up. Also, I read somewhere that bumping the chipset voltage a notch could help out.
 
If you're using a clip-type mount (lets say the stock Opteron heatpipe heatsink) wouldn't lapping the surface of the IHS decrease the amount of pressure being put on the CPU because you're taking height off of it? Or is the different negligible assuming you only go as far as you need to be flush?

-Matt
 
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