Is it worth using a sound card in newer builds?

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rjolin01

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Is it worth using a sound card in newer builds? I noticed that on board sound is alot better than use to be. I have a X-Fi Xtreme Music sound card in my gaming rig on a XFX 780i Mobo. I am in process of building a HTPC and was thinking about using this card since the HTPC mobo doesnt have onboard surround. Just wanted opinions on if onboard sound is good enough for gaming.
 
For me, on board has been fine, as all I really use it for is playing games.
they really have come a long way in the last few years.
I took out my Audigy 2 a while back due to some driver problems, and I never looked back.

Give it a try, only you can decide if its good enough, as your ears are the only ones that matter..:)
 
it really depends on what quality of audio you want. for example, if you're using some $20 cambridge computer speakers, onboard is fine because you're not going to notice a difference with low quality hardware.

in an htpc, most people want an optical audio output to use a toslink cable to an external DAC. for a real hi-fi solution, this is the way to go. no sound card can compete.

for a more "average" solution, a decent sound card for a good analog conversion, an amp, and a decent set of speakers/headphones is the way to go. this is something along the lines of an asus xonar or auzentech prelude, a basic amp like a CMoy or FiiO and some decent headphones like audio-technica, akg, grado or sennheiser.

however, if you're not wanting to spend $200+ on the entire audio setup, you might as well stay with the onboard.
 
For gaming, onboard is good enough. If you plan on listening to music with decent equipment and you care about having good sound quality, then a good sound card is definitely worth it.
 
Zero82z said:
For gaming, onboard is good enough. If you plan on listening to music with decent equipment and you care about having good sound quality, then a good sound card is definitely worth it.
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Although I have a good sound card, it seems to me if you're using good equipment, you're probably using an Optical or Coax digital output, so I'm not sure how a good sound card will matter at all.
 
Is it worth using a sound card in newer builds?
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I have not bought a sound card in 10 years and 8 system upgrades... My 38 year old ears can not tell the difference.
 
If you plan on listening to music with decent equipment and you care about having good sound quality
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I believe once you choose to go to mp3s over cds you already have given up a bit of quality so its not like an expensive sound card will fix that..
 
haha it depends on you ears and your speakers for sound quality in music and movies. As for gaming, if you're running windows 7 there no more EAX for games in windows 7... so no to answer your question, not going to make a difference.

Easiest way to check though is play your games through the audigy and then through your mobo integrated sound. See if you can hear a difference.
 
drescherjm said:
I believe once you choose to go to mp3s over cds you already have given up a bit of quality so its not like an expensive sound card will fix that..
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even people with the highest end of audio equipment regularly admit they cannot hear a difference between 320kbps mp3s and lossless formats.
 
nilepez said:
Although I have a good sound card, it seems to me if you're using good equipment, you're probably using an Optical or Coax digital output, so I'm not sure how a good sound card will matter at all.
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If you want the best possible audio quality, you'd probably want to go with a receiver using digital audio, but you can still get pretty good sound out of a good sound card and a good pair of headphones or speakers.
drescherjm said:
I believe once you choose to go to mp3s over cds you already have given up a bit of quality so its not like an expensive sound card will fix that..
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Listening to music on a PC doesn't necessarily imply mp3s. There are certainly other superior audio formats available. And even decent-bitrate mp3s (192kbps and up) sound noticeably better with better equipment.
 
demografik said:
even people with the highest end of audio equipment regularly admit they cannot hear a difference between 320kbps mp3s and lossless formats.
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Good for them. However, I don't have anything even close to high end equipment and I can tell the difference. It probably has something to do with the mushy highs and the flat bass that the mp3 compression causes. Hell, I'm partially deaf in the vocal range and I can still tell it.

To the OP: I've been using onboard since my first nForce2 board and was using a SB Live card prior to that. I haven't looked back once. For the most part, Creative cards only had advantages in select games and now even that advantage is gone. I don't believe the sometimes better DACs on Creative cards are worth the money or the trouble with having to deal with the cards.

 
SmokeRngs said:
Good for them. However, I don't have anything even close to high end equipment and I can tell the difference. It probably has something to do with the mushy highs and the flat bass that the mp3 compression causes. Hell, I'm partially deaf in the vocal range and I can still tell it.
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congratulations, you are a part of a very elite, select group of people who either have superhuman hearing or a need to justify their music collection taking up 10 times the space.
 
Just check these people about mp3's and lossless.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/can-you-tell-lossless-lossy-your-portable-setup-408879/


I'm using the like to show that it's a matter of perception. I didn't buy a sound card for my current build, I think if you believe you can hear a difference then you will. Well at least in your mind you will hear a difference.

Look how high "I have lossless files in my DAP, but I can't tell lossless from high bitrate MP3/AAC. " They can't tell the difference but they can sleep better at night knowing they have the best.

I'm sure "I have lossless files in my DAP, because lossless sounds better than high bitrate MP3/AAC to me. " this group there is a good % of them that think they can tell. It's not like a picture how can you compare them side by side at the same time.

Plus the older you get the less you can tell anyways.

It's really a hard call.
 
I take audio seriously, and I spent way too much money. It's a hobby right what can I do?
 
Onboard has come along way for sure but a dedicated sound card is always going to sound better. I can tell the difference between my onboard ALC1200 vs. Creative Titanium. I have used both by the way. The sound is cleaner and the volume is higher with the Titanium. Plus you get EAX5.0 with Creative which adds to any game.
 
I I look for it I can tell the difference but otherwise no. I will not be going to a dedicated sound card in my next build. Just get a well implemented one and be done with it. there will always be a place for dedicated cards among audiophiles but for everyone else on board is just fine now days.
 
I'm going to try and post as unbiased as possible.

My sound card in my rig has been a real hassle, (Xi-Fi Xtreme Gamer) until I finally worked around the kinks (both physically and software), and playing my games with my steelseries 5h (original) headset is much, MUCH more pleasurable and realistic (when it comes to FPS or whatnot).

For music, oh my god, a sound card makes such a massive difference. I dropped 70 bucks, I think, on my XiFi and I never realized how much BETTER the sound is of my music than on, for instance, my netbook, or my other non-gaming rigs w/o a sound card. Even using a Z4 Logitech setup, which is just 2.1, the sound difference is like night and day.

Go for it if you have the extra $ and desire for better music!
 
rjolin01 said:
Wow didnt think this would be such a heated topic for some people.
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Haha yeah you started a can of worms. People can take hi-fi really seriously... and like I said it's your ears. Some people have really good tastebuds and can extract every single flavor from food/drinks, some people have really good eyesight and can see long distances, and there is a small minority with really good hearing. High end audio though may not be as apparent as high end video but trust me it's there, you just haven't experienced yet. And like the transition from SD to HD, once you go there you never want to go back. Audio though is most apparent in music because of the source recordings.

As for the compressed vs uncompressed, it depends again on your ears and secondly your equipment. If you've got the right amp, processor, and speakers playing at reference levels, you're going to bring out all the nuances in the recording. And audio isn't just heard it's felt. Again it's all personal preference/observations.

The reason why the debate is so heated is because you have passionate people on both sides. You've got "audiophiles" spending incredible sums of money getting the setup that suits them (and even amongst them their is debate), and you have skeptics that believe that mp3 are equal in quality to a CD. To the naysayers, do yourself a favor and take your mp3 recording and the original cd to a high end audio store. They'll let you demo their equipment. And give me an honest/objective opinion to see if there's a difference, because there is a difference, some people can perceive it some people can't. Exact same recording compressed at 320K.

Sorry for going on a tangent. But like I said, it's a subjective thing and no one is judging you. All I implore is don't get caught by what people say but judge for yourself. That's all anyone can do. So take my advice. Play your favorite game with the onboard card. Play the same game with the Audigy Music. Do the same for your favorite music. If you hear a difference and you prefer a sound card, and your funds allow you to, then by all means do so. If not, you've saved yourself a couple of bucks.

As for me, I have a hifi system (paradigm monitor series) in my HT, I have nice bookshelves (paradigm mini monitors) in my bedroom for music, and I use my sennheiser 595's on my comp attached to onboard sound but debating whether I want to get Asus Essense STor a separate amp. It's what I could/can afford. It's an expensive hobby. When I bought all my equipment I auditioned for months, and though I wanted to get the reference line of paradigm speakers because I "heard" and "enjoyed" their sound more, my budget didn't allow it.

By all means go on the audio forums here, head-fi.org, and avsforum.com and ask questions if you're interested or curious, but do yourself a favor and listen for yourself, no one on any forum hears the same way you do.
 
My SB750 onboard sound doesn't handle 5.1 correctly. The rear speakers were all muddy using onboard so I had to throw in my old Audigy.
 
ordovician said:
My SB750 onboard sound doesn't handle 5.1 correctly. The rear speakers were all muddy using onboard so I had to throw in my old Audigy.
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the motherboard is all the difference in the world here. I have had on board that just sucked ass (my current board) and the new asus board I put in my mom's, it kicked ass (ass good as my old card, probably better.
 
If you want a good quality sound, then yes, you need a stand-alone card.

The on-board sound output on my P6T Deluxe V2 is pretty bad - a lot of interference noise from HDD, video card, etc, not enough sound channels so the sound gets garbled.
 
SmokeRngs said:
I don't have anything even close to high end equipment and I can tell the difference. It probably has something to do with the mushy highs and the flat bass that the mp3 compression causes.
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Ditto. Most of my music I have is 256kbps-320kbps MP3s, however when I rip music from CDs, I rip them in WMA lossless, and sometimes even WAV. The bass just seems to be better lossless.

To OP: I see no reason to get a sound card anymore. Hell, if you have a ATI 5000 series graphics card (even the $50 5450) you can stream DTS HD 7.1 through HDMI. I just don't see a reason to waste money on a sound card.
 
i have an xfi platinum, which is a pci card with the 5.25" front panel thingie. while i can notice the difference between it and on board sound, it is a real pain in the ass to keep it running on win7 64 ult. maybe its just my card, but half the time the mic doesnt work and i have to reboot, sometimes the pci card outs just stop working, other time the front panel thing stops working all together. and i find having to manually switch between modes hard to remember. so i shit canned it and am now going with the evga onboard, since i pretty much never listen to music on my pc, only game. as an aside, my 5 year old $24 chaintech cmedia card still runs great in win 7.
 
I own a set of Audioengine A5s, a 12" Velodyne sub and a pair of Denon AH-D2000 headphones. I for one can tell the difference between on board and my stand alone Auzentech. Mids, highs and especially in the quality of the bass. Games, music, everything. That said, it's not your A-typical setup. Someone with a pair of cheap cans (less than $100) and mainstream 2.1/5.1 speakers likely won't notice that much difference.
 
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For me, it is not worth it to get a dedicated sound card. On board is much more convenient I think. Unless you are really into music and like to change your room into a mini cinema, then NO.
 
rjolin01 said:
Wow didnt think this would be such a heated topic for some people.
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Some poeple spent a lot of money and have to justify their purchase.

It's like the "high end audio cable" vs. the coat hanger test. The coat hanger won.

There are a lot of people that do things not because they get additional tangible benefits from it, but because they gain some type of status from it. Like people paying thousands of dollars for a power cable for their home theater.
 
Lebowski said:
Like people paying thousands of dollars for a power cable for their home theater.
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This is true. I own an high end sub, but I got it for half price on Boxing Day and it's connected with an $8 cable from the local drugstore. :D I want the performance, not the epeen.

I own an expensive sound card, yes, but I wanted it for the quality on-board headphone amp, HDMI 3.1 compliance + true high def output, CMSS-3D for my phones plus several additional features you simply do not get with on-board ... not to mention the superior sound quality.

In other words, I for one did not buy a sound card simply because it looks good in my sig. Oh wait. I don't have a sig. Nevermind. :p
 
CrazyCuz2k said:
As for gaming, if you're running windows 7 there no more EAX for games in windows 7... so no to answer your question, not going to make a difference.
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It's true that EAX is no longer a part of Vista or Windows 7 but there is OpenAL which provides for hardware accelerated sound. Creative has a program called Alchemy which on a per-program basis can translate EAX into OpenAL on the fly and works great. I have several older games including World of Warcraft and Battlefield 2 that I continue to use with EAX and it makes quite a bit of difference.

I think sound cards can make a big difference but not necessarily in the quest for the "perfect sound" but rather simply in the fact that many will just have their own sound. Some will give you punchier bass some might give you harsh treble, some might make the sound warm, some might make the sound dry and plasticy. I DO think that it is important that you get a soundcard that sounds "good" to you if you care about music. The onboard might fill that requirment depending on the board but if you haven't even tried any others you might be missing out.

Regarding MP3, there is more to it than the bitrate. You also have to use an encoder that isn't terrible. All the bitrate in the world won't help if you aren't encoding it properly. I've heard some 128k MP3's that are pretty good and some 320k mp3s that sound like crap.

And seriously no one should say they can for sure tell the difference unless they have actually done the full double-blind test, etc. It's amazing what people think they "know" when they've done no scientific tests to back it up.
 
"Better" is really subjective. I've compared my on-board to an X-fi Fatal1ty to my current Auzentech. It wasn't triple blind but I did my best with back-to-back testing on the same track. The only obvious difference I noticed from a pure SQ perspective was improved bass quality on the Auzen and maybe an overall warmer sound (which I prefer). Beyond that, it was the features of the Auzen card (mostly the awesome on-board headphone amp for my Denons) that sold me.
 
The ATI 5xxx cards pretty much have obsoleted sound cards for me. You'd have to get a xonar and a soundcard to compete with a HD5xxx.
 
I think that in the future, audio in video games has the potential to use a great deal of processing power for producing some very realistic sound effects (in real-time). Using a sound card then might give you better framerates in game. Perhaps this might warrant a discrete sound solution, but as it stands now--and somebody correct me if I'm wrong--game audio doesn't require much computing power to process.

However, some sound cards do provide very useful features like MIDI-in and RCA aux ins, which can be indispensable for musicians and enthusiasts.

But I'm sure you'll all agree that it doesn't matter what sound card you use, as long as you make sure your 1/8" interconnect is 22awg solid silver teflon-insulated hand-forged cable, hand-soldered by Cambodian virgins to $350 dollar connectors, sprinkled with sea cucumber blood and fairy dust from the tallest mountains in the world. In that order. Anything less and whatever comes out of your speakers is ear-filth. =]
 
paul-e-wog said:
But I'm sure you'll all agree that it doesn't matter what sound card you use, as long as you make sure your 1/8" interconnect is 22awg solid silver teflon-insulated hand-forged cable, hand-soldered by Cambodian virgins to $350 dollar connectors, sprinkled with sea cucumber blood and fairy dust from the tallest mountains in the world. In that order. Anything less and whatever comes out of your speakers is ear-filth. =]
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:D:p

While standing in line with my 1/2 price sub this past Boxing Day, I had the opportunity to watch a Future Shop associate upsell some poor noob on Monster Cables for his brand new home theatre. I'm talking EVERYTHING, from power cables to coax to stereo to HDMI. Had it not meant abandoning my place in an epic line I'd already spent close to an hour languishing in, I might have been able to help. To this day I feel bad. I should have done more .......
 
To me it's worth having a sound card because the particular card I choose has ASIO drivers for low-latency recording/playback. For most folks, I think it's a toss-up, particularly if you're using a digital output to a good digital receiver. Once you take the DAC out of the computer's hands, it should all be roughly equal.
 
With my new build I lost the ability to use my x-fi and have chosen to try out the on-board audio for the first time ever. I'll be honest that while gaming positional effects have suffered it does produce some really clean sound. In some ways its better (no pops and crackles) and in others worse (gaming/headset positional effects). I still think that a nice sound card will sound better but for most on-board has definitely reached a point where its more than acceptable imho.
 
I still use my Audigy2ZS because it pushes my ATH-AD700s more than integrated. Had no problems with it just using speakers, but had to switch back to the Audigy when it was dedicated music listening time.

I've been comparing FLAC to MP3 320k just for curiosity. For most music I've compared the difference is really minute. Modest Mouse - Moon and Antartica, Spoon- Gax5, Shins- Wincing were the three albums I noticed a difference on from the ones I compared. Its definitely not a huge difference, but by concentrating on a certain instrument, I think the FLAC sounds a little more realistic for whatever reason. I'm not an audiophile, I just got bored one day and decided to do some comparisons.
 
The drivers for my soundcard blows, I'm still using onboard despite owning the Xonar DX2.
 
Tbird87 said:
I still use my Audigy2ZS because it pushes my ATH-AD700s more than integrated. Had no problems with it just using speakers, but had to switch back to the Audigy when it was dedicated music listening time.

I've been comparing FLAC to MP3 320k just for curiosity. For most music I've compared the difference is really minute. Modest Mouse - Moon and Antartica, Spoon- Gax5, Shins- Wincing were the three albums I noticed a difference on from the ones I compared. Its definitely not a huge difference, but by concentrating on a certain instrument, I think the FLAC sounds a little more realistic for whatever reason. I'm not an audiophile, I just got bored one day and decided to do some comparisons.
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I dig your taste in music.
 
CrazyCuz2k said:
As for gaming, if you're running windows 7 there no more EAX for games in windows 7... so no to answer your question, not going to make a difference.
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Wrong. Creative ALchemy allows EAX to function on Windows Vista and Windows 7. It's a simple DirectSound wrapper that translates DirectSound calls (such as EAX) into OpenAL calls.

Would never swap my trusty old Audigy 2 for integrated. More channels supported, better signal to noise ratio, and I get hardware accelerated OpenAL and EAX effects.
 
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