King Icewind
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AFAIK $50 insurance with Priority is automatically included now.
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Is buyer or seller responsible for lost packages?
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kirbyrj
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Not exactly. If the package doesn't arrive it is the sellers responsibility to file insurance claim and return funds to buyer. Good habit is to NOT spend money until the item arrives.
Ultimately this is the risk a seller takes.
Gillbot
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That's why the SELLER should put the insurance on it, to protect themselves...... Why do people not get this? If the item doesn't arrive, the SELLER eats the loss.
It's been a week since I submitted a request for the PO to locate the package at the mail recovery center. My post master doesn't know what else we can do because he says even he can't call them directly. The last communication between the seller and myself was him asking me what I learned about the package and what will likely happen. I told him it looks like the package is going to be lost from everything I've read on the internet about what happens with mail at the recovery center.
My conclusion about what to do from here based on the comments in the thread is that my request for a refund is appropriate. I don't know the seller's position on that. He initially wrote me that he didn't feel that was fair. I don't know if the consensus in this thread will change his perspective on that. His last post in the thread seemed to indicate he would like to wait for the post office to find the package before figuring out what to do. I don't think that's an unreasonable position so I figure we'll probably reach some conclusion one way or the other this time next week.
Just to let you knwo, Post office takes its sweet time to locate the package. It will take a month before you hear anything. By then, you can open a paypal dispute.
Corrected that for you.
The seller should have been refunded the guy his money. This has went on long enough. As the point to this is so. It isn't the buyers place to do anything about a lost package.
The seller has to cover it all the way until the buyer receives it and checks and both parties are happy with the deal. Same deal if the package is damaged, the seller has to file the claim not the buyer.
Refund the guy his money and move on at this point.
The Seller shipped it out with no return address. There is no telling where the package actually is at this point. Of course this isn't paypal. Because for some reason the Seller wanted a cash payment. So why would he want cash and not put a return address on the package for?
Just seems a bit odd that he isn't responding to the buyer at this. Don't get me wrong, we all get in a rush and do stuff wrong. But you make up for it by doing right. As far as I see the seller doesn't care at this point.
If he:
a) Refunds the money. If the package comes back. Then the buyer can purchase it again.
b) Just goes on his way and doesn't care. Then he should be banned from here. We don't need people that doesn't care selling items here. We need honest people that will correct a issue if it happens.
Doing the right thing isn't that hard to figure out.
Just seems a bit odd that he isn't responding to the buyer at this. Don't get me wrong, we all get in a rush and do stuff wrong. But you make up for it by doing right. As far as I see the seller doesn't care at this point.
If he:
a) Refunds the money. If the package comes back. Then the buyer can purchase it again.
b) Just goes on his way and doesn't care. Then he should be banned from here. We don't need people that doesn't care selling items here. We need honest people that will correct a issue if it happens.
Doing the right thing isn't that hard to figure out.
According to the USPS site, it is automatically included up to $50 if it was sent Priority with a tracking bar code.
If I were the seller, I would contact USPS get the insurance paid out. State that you didn't decline any insurance and according to their advertisement that insurance is included.
https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail.htm
If I were the seller, I would contact USPS get the insurance paid out. State that you didn't decline any insurance and according to their advertisement that insurance is included.
https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail.htm
topcat989
Extremely [H]
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Can you please let me know the name of your company? I would like to make sure I never do business with them. Thx.
Are you serious? Look, a package getting stolen out of a mailbox is one thing, because it was delivered. But for you to kiss off any and all responsibility as soon as you ship? Have you ever had a package you ship go bremuda triangle and you just told the buyer "too bad, so sad, I ain't your Dad"
This, If I sell something, I put insurance on anything I'm not willing to eat the loss on. I'll usually risk $50 and under, but anything over, I figure insurance along with shipping in any price I agree to sell at.
100% agree. I couldn't have said it any better.
The polar opposite reactions and comments in this thread truly portray the difference between a "good" seller and a DNT seller.
BTW, the OP said this:
I now live in an apartment complex, and receiving packages can be a PITA. The mailboxes barely hold mail, certainly not packages... and even padded envelopes which could potentially fit are often redirected back to the Post Office (although they DO leave a "mail pickup" slip in the box to let me know). For this reason, I have most packages shipped to my work now.
At least FedEx and UPS will deliver my packages to the complex Management Office to hold for me.
Wow...lots of hate on the thread already. I wanted to update people since some people have already vilified me and added me to do-not-trade lists. Sounds like you guys aren't even getting all of the facts straight at this point. Perhaps it would have been wiser of me not to even have replied.
Anyway.. here's an update on the situation:
1. I didn't put insurance on the package since it was $25. I'll eat the loss, but I would like to know what happened to the package.
2. YES, I did indeed put my return address on the package. Why wouldn't I?
3. Earlier this week I received the top half of the padded envelope I used to ship the package (which clearly shows my address and the buyer's address) from the PO without the contents. On the envelope the PO or someone else has written "not@this address please return to sender". I sent it to the address buyer gave me. The letter that came with the envelope reads:
"Dear Customer:
An empty wrapper with your address was found in the mail and is believed to have been separated from a parcel during handling (see attached address portion of the wrapper)..."
So to me this all means that the package arrived at the intended destination, someone opened the package, took out the items, and then shoved the envelope back in the mail. I feel like I just got scammed for $25, but if the consensus on this forum is that I should refund the $25 I will go ahead and do so. Let me know what you guys think.
Anyway.. here's an update on the situation:
1. I didn't put insurance on the package since it was $25. I'll eat the loss, but I would like to know what happened to the package.
2. YES, I did indeed put my return address on the package. Why wouldn't I?
3. Earlier this week I received the top half of the padded envelope I used to ship the package (which clearly shows my address and the buyer's address) from the PO without the contents. On the envelope the PO or someone else has written "not@this address please return to sender". I sent it to the address buyer gave me. The letter that came with the envelope reads:
"Dear Customer:
An empty wrapper with your address was found in the mail and is believed to have been separated from a parcel during handling (see attached address portion of the wrapper)..."
So to me this all means that the package arrived at the intended destination, someone opened the package, took out the items, and then shoved the envelope back in the mail. I feel like I just got scammed for $25, but if the consensus on this forum is that I should refund the $25 I will go ahead and do so. Let me know what you guys think.
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Zepher
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I didn't read the entire thread, but the seller is responsible for getting the product to the buyer.
Insurance is for the Seller, not the buyer so the seller should always insure a package for loss or damage.
If I don't receive what I bought, I want my money back, no if's and's or buts..
Insurance is for the Seller, not the buyer so the seller should always insure a package for loss or damage.
If I don't receive what I bought, I want my money back, no if's and's or buts..
kirbyrj
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If you look at the times, the package looks like it was out for delivery, the mailman noticed the package was damaged after he had scanned it for delivery and didn't deliver it. The tracking info does not make it sound like the buyer ever got his item. If it was a scam, there would be nothing further from the post office other than delivered.
Seller should refund money and pursue insurance claim.
Seller should refund money and pursue insurance claim.
I have to go teach my class and won't be done until 12:30. I'll hold office hours until around 2pm and then I'll be home. I'll send you the post master's personal office phone number and it'll ring right to him. It's a very small town and not difficult to get through. In any case, it won't take but a couple minutes to verify from the post office that the package was never delivered to me or anywhere else.
The post master described to me a scenario basically what kirbyrj posted above.
Please keep in mind that if I had tampered with the package it would have scanned as delivered and then without further updates the issue would have become an internal issue with insurance and the post office (that is, if I left a torn piece of mail in the box the carrier would not have picked it up and rescanned it back into the mail stream and also the carrier would have known that she left an intact package).
Also, in regards to the negative comments toward you I have not tolerated them and responded as such the entire thread and the only information I posted was our pm's with identifying information redacted. I've tried to remain and professional as possible and encouraged others to be as well.
I have seen this type of damage before, usually it's with plain envelopes, not padded ones though.
Anyway, post offices sometimes try to run things through their automatic sorting machines when they should not.
For example a guy tried sending me a small metal part in a plain envelope once. I got an empty envelope with a hole in it. The metal part must have somehow got stuck in the sorting machine and ripped out of the envelope, but the envelope itself kept moving on. I bet this is basically what happened here as well. It doesn't seem like either party is trying to scam the other.
Anyway, post offices sometimes try to run things through their automatic sorting machines when they should not.
For example a guy tried sending me a small metal part in a plain envelope once. I got an empty envelope with a hole in it. The metal part must have somehow got stuck in the sorting machine and ripped out of the envelope, but the envelope itself kept moving on. I bet this is basically what happened here as well. It doesn't seem like either party is trying to scam the other.
SPARTAN VI
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So the point of contention here is "risk of loss." Unless specifically agreed to otherwise, the risk of loss will pass from the seller to the buyer upon delivery of the merchandise.
If I were the seller in this case, I would've immediately refunded the buyer, then opened a claim with the carrier. There's no reason to keep the two of us hanging around with our thumbs up our asses while the carrier sorts things out. Whatever I recover in restitution from the carrier is mine to keep and my transaction with the buyer is already void.
If I were the seller in this case, I would've immediately refunded the buyer, then opened a claim with the carrier. There's no reason to keep the two of us hanging around with our thumbs up our asses while the carrier sorts things out. Whatever I recover in restitution from the carrier is mine to keep and my transaction with the buyer is already void.
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aShrubbery!
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?
And why shouldn't the USPS do the same as long as you've got the address on the package????
Most of the items I receive I have had sent by the USPS, and none went unaccountable.
aShrubbery!
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People skimping on packaging risk that happening to them. And TBH they should know better. A regular envelope is meant for flat stock. Manilla envelopes are the same. Padded envelopes provide a minimum amount of protection.
I've seen people use large card envelopes - letter size - to put regular merchandise in them only to have them delivered punctured. Tyvek envelopes are great, but again... it's meant for flat stock. They will protect from the weather, but that is it!
So next time people offer free shipping, take that into consideration.
Gillbot
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The issue here is, you are assuming it's the buyers problem or he scammed you. It very well may have happened by ANYONE in the chain between you and the buyer but if the buyer insists he didn't do it, you have to refund. I've said it a thousand times, there is a risk with selling and buying online. This is one of those selling risks. It is a low cost item, had it been a more costly item you likely would have gotten insurance and signature confirmation to alleviate this risk.
The only thing you could have said at this point.
* I've refunded the buyers money and now talking to the carrier to find a solution.*
But yet wildly enough it has been a month and you are still posting here and not refunding the buyers money. Let me say this one more time. It has been a MONTH and you are still here making excuses.
Why haven't you refunded the guy his money yet? I don't care what happened to the package at this point now. You are still in the wrong and not doing anything to correct it at this point. How long does it take to sink in that you need to do a refund?
Perhaps you need a few more months to figure out what to do? I honestly can't figure out what the issue with you is at this point and time. As it is all basic common sense on what to do now. But yet here we are with no refund or you doing anything about the lost package.
* I've refunded the buyers money and now talking to the carrier to find a solution.*
But yet wildly enough it has been a month and you are still posting here and not refunding the buyers money. Let me say this one more time. It has been a MONTH and you are still here making excuses.
Why haven't you refunded the guy his money yet? I don't care what happened to the package at this point now. You are still in the wrong and not doing anything to correct it at this point. How long does it take to sink in that you need to do a refund?
Perhaps you need a few more months to figure out what to do? I honestly can't figure out what the issue with you is at this point and time. As it is all basic common sense on what to do now. But yet here we are with no refund or you doing anything about the lost package.
I think you need to calm down and not assume you know all the details before continuing to bash me. The buyer and I agreed to spend some time to figure out what happened before he even asked for a refund. He thought if there was an issue with the shipping that the package would naturally be returned to me, after which someone local to my area that he knew would pick it up and get it to him. That all takes some time to happen. I ask that you please refrain from making unnecessary accusations.
The buyer will be refunded and I'll deal with the shipper. Thanks.
Only person that seems to be upset is you here. He shouldn't have to ask for nothing. It is your place to give a refund. It is nice he is trying to work with you. But he has to work with you because you got a cash payment. So there isn't much he can do at this point but wait and hope he gets a refund at this point and time.
Now why did you want a cash payment for on such a low priced item for in the first place? Not sure about everyone but I would have left you a negative feedback for allowing this to go on for so long. There is no accusations, only the truth is being told here. You are the one saying you are being scammed for $25 dollars.
You put the items in the wrong package also. That is also 99% of the problem there. Everything that went wrong points to you. Because you are the seller and the one who got the cheap envelope package to ship it in. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.
Again stop posting trying to make yourself not look like the bad person. You need to refund the guy his money. Stop beating around the bush and do it. I'm wondering how long would you wait in order to get your money back if the tables was turned on you.
Now why did you want a cash payment for on such a low priced item for in the first place? Not sure about everyone but I would have left you a negative feedback for allowing this to go on for so long. There is no accusations, only the truth is being told here. You are the one saying you are being scammed for $25 dollars.
You put the items in the wrong package also. That is also 99% of the problem there. Everything that went wrong points to you. Because you are the seller and the one who got the cheap envelope package to ship it in. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.
Again stop posting trying to make yourself not look like the bad person. You need to refund the guy his money. Stop beating around the bush and do it. I'm wondering how long would you wait in order to get your money back if the tables was turned on you.
I appreciate the community's input but I think the thread has run it's course and can be closed.
The seller has already agreed to refund the money.
For the record, though, I haven't been waiting on a refund for a month. Neither of us knew the package was lost until last week. The first couple weeks it was in transit, the third week it first showed as delivered and then bounced around the sorting centers, and then finally for the past week it has been showing as being at the mail recovery center. Now I thought the package was done at that point and requested a refund but he thought we should wait it out a bit and see what happened to the package, which are both perfectly reasonable positions to hold.
Now that we've concluded the package is unrecoverable he has PM'ed me and offered to refund the payment. So there's really nothing more to be done here and, furthermore, I don't think the seller should have any negative repercussions (no DNT lists, no antagonizing PM's, or hostile posts). Again, the seller has been responsive and acted within reason, in my opinion, the only reason for the thread was to assess the community's position on this because he and I had a reasonable difference of opinion about who should bear the package's responsibility and the type of feedback appropriate for this transaction.
The seller has already agreed to refund the money.
For the record, though, I haven't been waiting on a refund for a month. Neither of us knew the package was lost until last week. The first couple weeks it was in transit, the third week it first showed as delivered and then bounced around the sorting centers, and then finally for the past week it has been showing as being at the mail recovery center. Now I thought the package was done at that point and requested a refund but he thought we should wait it out a bit and see what happened to the package, which are both perfectly reasonable positions to hold.
Now that we've concluded the package is unrecoverable he has PM'ed me and offered to refund the payment. So there's really nothing more to be done here and, furthermore, I don't think the seller should have any negative repercussions (no DNT lists, no antagonizing PM's, or hostile posts). Again, the seller has been responsive and acted within reason, in my opinion, the only reason for the thread was to assess the community's position on this because he and I had a reasonable difference of opinion about who should bear the package's responsibility and the type of feedback appropriate for this transaction.
Gillbot
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I don't think anyone should rely on paypal to handle their issues. If you deal with good sellers, the payment option doesn't matter.
DooKey
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This^^^
krylon
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Seems like a lot of emotion and name calling for a package only worth $25. I think it is probably best to close this thread now.
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