http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Papers
the papers that have been released with the work done with F@H......
what all has bitcoin accomplished ?
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Is bitcoin frowned upon here?
- Thread starter buzzbomb
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http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Papers
the papers that have been released with the work done with F@H......
what all has bitcoin accomplished ?
Can i point out to everybody that this IS the DC forum and as such any and all DC projects should be welcomed until/unless they are proven to be less than legit. Everyone on here does different projects for different reasons, I for one do not think it is fair that anyone is critising another project without valid reason. It would be like me listing a whole load of projects that I think are pointless
The problem is that it appears shady and has a questionable process. No reason to say that it's critising something, it's more of questioning the intent.
etothe3ric
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It seems similar to the stock market. Where you use CPU cycles to create money for your business and then you can buy and sell the things you crunch. It is the trading of virtual goods with real money. As long as both parties see it as valuable to exchange with currency of their country it works as a form of currency.
It is a different take on DC however, it is Distributed Computing. I have never heard anything about it before and will be checking it out and to learn more even if I don't end up crunching for it.
It is a different take on DC however, it is Distributed Computing. I have never heard anything about it before and will be checking it out and to learn more even if I don't end up crunching for it.
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so can an ATi card produce as much $$$ in bit coins as you pay for the card? probably not... seems strange to me
trilogy456
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I just bought a used 5870, I can try it for a month and see
The dollar value of BTC is totally made up and up to what an individual person will pay for it. BUT, this is not the point of BTC. It is it's own currency, with no dollar value inherently. BTC is its own thing that can be traded for goods or services. Its value comes from the fact it is of a set limited supply and cannot be counterfeited (any easier than 256-bit encryption can be broken).
I just bought a used 5870, I can try it for a month and see
The dollar value of BTC is totally made up and up to what an individual person will pay for it. BUT, this is not the point of BTC. It is it's own currency, with no dollar value inherently. BTC is its own thing that can be traded for goods or services. Its value comes from the fact it is of a set limited supply and cannot be counterfeited (any easier than 256-bit encryption can be broken).
Actually it cannot be counterfeited because each bitcoin is transcoded with the previous addresses it "belonged" to, so they cannot be "spent" twice. If you decide to mine, join a pool - the odds of getting some sort of payment out of it are much higher, even though the payout might be slightly less.
Ask the Fed, they're great at it.
Parja
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Beanie Babies, baseball cards, old tin signs, etc. None of this stuff has any significant "real" value, but it does to collectors, so there's a market for them. I see bitcoins as the same type of thing. The difference is, I can see why people would want to collect those things and would put value in them. Why there's enough people out there insane enough to put value in a string of text to the point where they've achieved near parity with the US Dollar, though, is beyond me.
something has value if people will pay for it.
It seems to me like this bitcoin "economy" could survive for a while, and you might even be able to make money on it. If I had spare hardware and free power I might investigate further.
However, as with anything that has no "true" intrinsic value, the currency could crash and you would have no buyer for your bitcoin blocks, which would then be worthless.
Interesting concept, but it is too muddy and too risky for me to recommend getting involved.
Edit: there is some interesting reading out there about the Linden Dollars used in Second Life and whether that economy could ever collapse.
The problem is that some people do not try to read about something before commenting about it.
I've read technical paper behind this software, I read source code and I am sure what it do is what it suppose to do.
This is open source project - read code if you are afraid of "shady business".
On the another note, all miners - post your rig pictures here. Here is mine. Put's about 1.1Ghs. Waiting for more powerful PSU to overclock it (the one in the picture fried itself after overclock and I had to temporaly downgrade to 1KWt PSU):
Nice rig. What client/pool do you use?
Using poclbm and mining solo. I am greedy guy =))
Cerulean
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The problem with this logic is that it isn't being fair and logical. What good things aren't used for bad?
Anonymity would be a bad thing, because it would be used by pedophiles and pedo-crime organizations in countries like India, Africa, China, Korea, Taiwan, and even European and South American countries. ANONYMITY IS A BAD THING. +1 to Zuckerberg.
When there is a good thing, chances are, it has a bad use also (even if the good thing wasn't meant or purposed for any other reason than a good one).
There's nothing backing your green notes/certificates either.
jojo69
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Uhhhh,
sorry, I'm sort of speechless...look at that wad of crumpled cotton in your pocket, what is backing that? Ben Bernanke does not even have to pay for ink and fabric in this era...a few keystrokes by the chairman and the big banks have another T$ to play with.
Technically, since Nixon closed the gold window, the USD is backed by "the full faith and credit" of the US government...whatever that is.
I am not weighing in on bitcoin at this time, merely observing that it is at least as legitimate in concept as the current world reserve currency...not that that is saying much.
1) What the fuck are you running that made a 1.25 Kw PSU "fried itself" with an overclock?
2) What the hell type of PSU is it? Doesn't look like any manufacturer that i know/recognize
3) Why no OC on the bloody CPU? Not even a semi-decent cooler just the shitty stock one....you rig makes very little sense...
2) What the hell type of PSU is it? Doesn't look like any manufacturer that i know/recognize
3) Why no OC on the bloody CPU? Not even a semi-decent cooler just the shitty stock one....you rig makes very little sense...
The problem is that some people do not try to read about something before commenting about it.
I've read technical paper behind this software, I read source code and I am sure what it do is what it suppose to do.
This is open source project - read code if you are afraid of "shady business".
On the another note, all miners - post your rig pictures here. Here is mine. Put's about 1.1Ghs. Waiting for more powerful PSU to overclock it (the one in the picture fried itself after overclock and I had to temporaly downgrade to 1KWt PSU):
Exactly. That's why people invented and support bitcoins =)
Cerulean
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But ah, when it comes to politics and the financial realm, you get to own people as puppets and slaves. The central banks are a privately owned bank like when there used to be in the old western days. It takes an understanding of the reality of how politics and people can be and are influenced by money. Everyone has a breaking point in how much pressure they can withstand. But if that doesn't work, a bullet to the head will also do.
jojo69
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Yes, A government that has made it abundantly clear that it intends to inflate away its unpayable debts.
1) This is shitty Chinese PSU. Some works, some works only after RMA (may be two =)). Also, bitcoin mining loads GPU 99% usually where games usually load GPU about 50-70%.
2) This is Xion XIO-1250
3) I am not overclocking CPU at all. I am doing mining on GPU only while using computer for work-related activities. But you are right. Eventually I will add waterblock on CPU too, but only because it will make inside cleaner (I do not like this bended tube from reservoir to pump and CPU water block wants to be there instead).
by "What the fuck are you running to make a PSU fry itself" i ment what hardware......i cant think of very many systems here (for F@H, this is the DC section....not a gaming section, so 99% load as well mate....) that would "fry" a 1.25 kw unit...from the pics it looks like two 5970's.....just a guess though.
as for this bitcoin- http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2010/12/interview-bitcoin.php
interesting read, still doesnt sell me on seeing this as a "real" distributed computing project......and IMHO not very strong of an argument for doing it...
as for this bitcoin- http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2010/12/interview-bitcoin.php
interesting read, still doesnt sell me on seeing this as a "real" distributed computing project......and IMHO not very strong of an argument for doing it...
Two 5970 at 950Mhz and 1.25v. This PSU should stand with that, so I blame shitty Chinese manufacture. Once I will get RMAed one and test it - will see if it's random bug or all these units are complete shit. With my experience with cheap chinese stuff - it's 50/50 usually and if you have warranty - it's not a problem.
And re bitcoins - I am pretty sure it's not public ready. Idea of p2p currency is kinda... weird. So this idea will fit only few. and that's why I believe this is perfectly fine if most people decide to not jump into this bandwagon (at least, now).
The only thing I hate when people start saying something about "botnet", "password cracking", "helping north korea nuclear program" and etc shit without even looking into documentation and source code. But of course this is not limited to bitcoins - you can see such lame attitude everywhere =))
I think you have the right attitude, but a warning:
I just had a BFG PSU die, and I'm still trying to clean up the mess. I am 80% sure my motherboard is dead (Gigabyte X58 UD5, worth around $200), I am 80% sure my 96GB SSD is dead (96GB OCZ Vertex, worth around $150). My $1000 hex core Xeon CPU is still a mystery. Looks like the memory checks out.
thanx! i read few reviews before buying it and all of them said this psu works fine except when it was DOA upon receiving in the mail. So.. fingers crossed =)
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Well if you can read/understand the source, then I think the question is, exactly what work is being done to generate the currency? Is there an underlying purpose being accomplished or is it just to create the bitcoins? I think that's why people are skeptical, aside from making coins, what does it "do"?
jojo69
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Hmmm, its a distributed mint. You are doing the computational "work" to create a unique, uncounterfeitable unit. Intriguing. Adoption will clearly be a problem, like Ithica hours or any of the AOCS open source currencies. What people need to wrap their heads around is that short of barter or a gold/silver standard this is as legitimate as any fiat currency currently in use in concept.
The only thing that gives fiat currency "value" is the shared social hallucination that it has value.
The only thing that gives fiat currency "value" is the shared social hallucination that it has value.
work is "dumb". in very-very simplified way - you generate "random" number lower then X. once you generated it - you got coins (here "random" number is based on all previous transactions). Unfortunately, this work cannot be used for something valuable since no one really need these results. The only what it's useful for - proving that all transactions are valid and no double spend happened.
Also, this X is adjusted every 2 weeks to make sure there will be no too much coins generated. p2p network tries to keep generation at 1 block each 10 minutes. for each 1 block currently you can get 50 bitcoins. That's how limited supply is achieved.
So: hard work to create coins, use this hard work to prevent double spending and limit number of coins issued. That's what for this "dumb" calculations done.
Hope this makes any sense =))
Cerulean
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I dont think of it as those things, just not sure what the whole point of the computations are.....F@H and BOINC projects all have published papers (for the most part), this seems to just maintain the currency in its state while growing slightly until it hits 21 million (then what?)
The only useful use of these computation is to encode transactions into blocks. Encode process is hard and long. Validation of encoded information in these blocks is easy and fast. By encoding transactions network prevents double spending, 'cos to create "fake" block is very-very hard while checking if this block is "fake" or not is very easy.
50 bitcoins you get for each solved block serves two purposes:
1) Initial distribution of bitcoins to public - we need some way to distribute coins anyway.
2) Bonus to the ones, who decided to jump earlier.
This "bonus" will be slashed each few years until total number of coins reach 21 mln. Once there - no "bonuses" will be given for each solving blocks.
But block generation is still necessary for keeping network working. So the questions - what the incentive for miners to keep running their rigs and paying for electricity. Answer - there is ability to give reward to anyone who generated block with your transaction. Right now it's purely optional, but once number of transactions and/or cost of mining will raise - the only way to send money will be offering a reward with it. That's how miners will be getting paid in future.
I am trying to make it simple while providing details here... Hope all of this makes sense =)
Cerulean
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I appreciate your input hippich!
jojo69
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So as it currently stands, do you have to join a group to have any chance of being the first to encrypt a block? Is it possible for a single rig to even mint a block in time?
Cerulean
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My workstation got a few coins after some hours. The only "problem" I found was that it's definitely very heavy on CPU.
Found my workstation unresponsive at times. Wish I could harness some GPU power. : o However, I've been "on and off" with bitcoin, as in.. when it first came out I ran it for a few hours, then decided to delete it. The last time I did that was a few months ago.. and just, for whatever reason, decided to delete it. *shrugs*I realize the initial part of Bitcoin would be the 'hard labor' part, and then later, the fruits of that 'hard labor' would come to be.
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