Is Apple making an 'iPad Pro' with a stylus?

[Deleted whining member 223597]

Actually no, it was NEVER mentioned in the launch video, and nobody has commented on it since then, In fact, they said its designed to accept both pen and hand input simultaneously..."designed" which means it absolutely does not have palm rejection. Man apple fans will eat up whatever shit they launch no matter how inferior it is

Microsoft trolls will troll just about anything without real information.

 

[Snowdog]

Both Anand and Arstechnica had first hand use, and mentioned palm rejection working well.

I have also read that iOS 9 now has touch/pencil APIs in latest version.

Some old apps will likely not have palm rejection until updated.

 

[CEpeep]

Actually no, it was NEVER mentioned in the launch video, and nobody has commented on it since then, In fact, they said its designed to accept both pen and hand input simultaneously..."designed" which means it absolutely does not have palm rejection. Man apple fans will eat up whatever shit they launch no matter how inferior it is

The pen is powered man, the tablet knows whether the pen or your hand is touching it and that means that apps can absolutely reject hand touches if it's not desirable for that use case. There will be a whole developer API for interacting with the Pencil and choosing what to do with it. The line between effective trolling and ignorant diatribe is clearly eluding you.

 

[heatlesssun]

Tablet size has little correlation (if any) to a need for a stylus.

But given your stylus fetish, no surprise you see it that way. But I bet the attach rate (sales) for the stylus is much lower than the keyboard.

Size and keyboard usability have a direct correlation. This is big for the keyboard, not the stylus.

I don't see this as any more iffy a laptop than a Surface Pro. Both of them have non optimal keyboard cases.

Which is why I think this is a stepping stone to a more laptop oriented iOS devices.

People overthink this a bit too much. Why would someone want a large, thin, slate form factor computer that's around the size of piece letter sized paper? Using a pen is just an obvious activity to do with this form factor. And I don't know why you say my pen fetish. When I saw these rumors eight months ago and started this thread it made perfect sense to me. Considering that pretty much everything in those rumors ended up being the case, I don't think my reasoning behind why I thought they were true was off base.

Virtually all large screen tablets these days have digital pens. It's as given as some type of keyboard option these days. There was simply no way I could see Apple offering a large screen tablet missing such a common element in these kinds of devices, especially given that arguably its biggest competitor, the Surface Pro line seems to have done a very good job using the digital pen as a selling point.

My point about the iPad Pro being an iffy laptop was about the OS, not so much the keyboard covers, which the iPad Pro lacks a track pad in its version. In any case the Type Cover design while not perfect is certainly effective. "Lapabilty" is the biggest issue and that's always going to be problematic for a top heavy setup.

 

[heatlesssun]

Actually no, it was NEVER mentioned in the launch video, and nobody has commented on it since then, In fact, they said its designed to accept both pen and hand input simultaneously..."designed" which means it absolutely does not have palm rejection. Man apple fans will eat up whatever shit they launch no matter how inferior it is

I saw the whole keynote on the iPad Pro from start to finish and palm rejection was the first question that came to my mind and they specifically mentioned it. They didn't say palm rejection by name but said that the pen could be just in conjunction with fingers without interference.

 

[heatlesssun]

Some old apps will likely not have palm rejection until updated.

I imagine this is correct. Ink and touch in Windows are two different classes of input but if you're not using ink APIs pen input defaults to mouse input. In iOS since there is no concept of a mouse then I'm guessing pen input would just default to touch input without the ink APIs.

 

[Snowdog]

People overthink this a bit too much. Why would someone want a large, thin, slate form factor computer that's around the size of piece letter sized paper? Using a pen is just an obvious activity to do with this form factor.

Uh no. The number one thing to do with that size screen is to attach a keyboard and use it as a laptop.

Outside of graphics, there is very little real public desire for a pen. When I pressed you on this before you cam up with doing long division as a use case for pen input.

My point about the iPad Pro being an iffy laptop was about the OS

What do you think most people typically do with laptops that iOS can't do?

 

[VladDracule]

Microsoft trolls will troll just about anything without real information.

This has nothing to do with trolling, its calling a 2 yr late spade a spade. Nobody has a legitimate reason as to why the Ipad pro is better than the surface pro aside from being tide to specific IOS only apps.

Hell even on the artist front, full photoshop on a surface will beat out the ipad pro every single time for a cheaper price. This Ipad is a total joke, and the ONLY reason it will sell is it has the apple logo on it

 

[CEpeep]

Nobody has a legitimate reason as to why the Ipad pro is better than the surface pro aside from being tide to specific IOS only apps.

For the target audience, that's enough of a reason right there. It's the same reason a Surface Pro is compelling to a Windows user: it runs all your apps.

Hell even on the artist front, full photoshop on a surface will beat out the ipad pro every single time for a cheaper price. This Ipad is a total joke, and the ONLY reason it will sell is it has the apple logo on it

Almost all of our designers are already using Creative Cloud on their iPads. Without a stylus. Why are they doing that if full Photoshop on the Surface is automatically better for absolutely everything 100% of the time? There's plenty of Surface Pros around here if they'd rather use that instead. How many users do you support, and are all of them really the same as you seem to be implying?

 

[heatlesssun]

Uh no. The number one thing to do with that size screen is to attach a keyboard and use it as a laptop.

Perhaps. But then why not just buy a laptop which is going to work belter as a laptop. I'm not saying the keyboard isn't important, I have Type Covers for both my Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3. But I use them a lot without the Type Cover. I'd say if someone is using a Surface device or an iPad Pro ALWAYS with a keyboard teiid probably be better off with a conventional laptop. And while of course one can use touch without need of a keyboard or pen why would one spend $800 dollars on a touch only device?

The pen is a critical factor for a device like the iPad Pro given the price.

Outside of graphics, there is very little real public desire for a pen. When I pressed you on this before you cam up with doing long division as a use case for pen input.

Yet most large screen tablets support pens.

What do you think most people typically do with laptops that iOS can't do?

A few things to consider with this question. First of all even with a keyboard attached the iPad Pro would strictly be a touchscreen laptop with no mouse support. And secondly at nearly $1000, at least in the PC world, a laptop of that price is going to have more expectations of it that would be the norm for say a $400-$500 machine which is around the average price for a typical consumer Windows based laptop these days I believe.

A $1000 Windows laptop with no mouse support, no external monitor support, no USB ports that can only run two apps simultaneously on screen side-by-side? That's a non-starter at this price in the Windows world.

 

[heatlesssun]

This has nothing to do with trolling, its calling a 2 yr late spade a spade. Nobody has a legitimate reason as to why the Ipad pro is better than the surface pro aside from being tide to specific IOS only apps.

Hell even on the artist front, full photoshop on a surface will beat out the ipad pro every single time for a cheaper price. This Ipad is a total joke, and the ONLY reason it will sell is it has the apple logo on it

I'm a huge fan of the Surface line and often called a Microsoft apologist and I do get the point about the copying Apple is doing here. It's beyond obvious and the reason is that the media consumption tablet market is faltering pretty hard especially the iPad

But I think Apple has a good offering here and I think it's a completely logical thing for then to do in the current reality of the tablet market. No, it's not as flexible as a Surface Pro but it is better tablet overall simply because of the iOS ecosystem.

 

[Snowdog]

I'd say if someone is using a Surface device or an iPad Pro ALWAYS with a keyboard teiid probably be better off with a conventional laptop.

I'd say most people who bought a Surface Pro would likely have been better off with conventional laptop. But a Billion dollars in marketing can convince a lot of people to buy something they don't need.

Yet most large screen tablets support pens.

Only because you define most large screen tablets as the Surface Pro.

If you actually include the best option for large screen convertible tablets like the Lenovo Yoga, then the pen support is a smaller fraction. Also support doesn't equal purchase. Purchase numbers would be smaller. Even purchase doesn't equal usage. For most non artists, a stylus will be an item that many will try for a while and discover they have no real use case for.

A few things to consider with this question.

Most of which had nothing to do with the OS as you claimed was the problem.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'd say most people who bought a Surface Pro would likely have been better off with conventional laptop. But a Billion dollars in marketing can convince a lot of people to buy something they don't need.

If you always use the keyboard then sure. I use my SP3 all the time with touch and pen without the keyboard. I get that you don't see the point and think it's all about marketing but these kinds of devices have been around for sometime, long before the Surface or iPad.

Only because you define most large screen tablets as the Surface Pro.

If you actually include the best option for large screen convertible tablets like the Lenovo Yoga, then the pen support is a smaller fraction. Also support doesn't equal purchase. Purchase numbers would be smaller. Even purchase doesn't equal usage. For most non artists, a stylus will be an item that many will try for a while and discover they have no real use case for.

I'm talking about large slate form factor devices upwards of $600.

Most of which had nothing to do with the OS as you claimed was the problem.

No true windowing or mouse support are OS considerations and a non-starter for a $1000 Windows laptop.

 

[Snowdog]

If you always use the keyboard then sure. I use my SP3 all the time with touch and pen without the keyboard.

You keep assuming your usage is some kind of norm, when it is more of a tiny niche.

I'm talking about large slate form factor devices upwards of $600.

Do you care to define those specs in more detail. Do you need help?
https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/products/surface-pro-3


There are very few big slates without attached keyboards, because once they get big enough they turn into more serious laptops, so many like the Yoga, attach better keyboards to make them much more usable in that mode.

No true windowing or mouse support are OS considerations and a non-starter for a $1000 Windows laptop.

The importance of windowing is questionable on a small screen. Screen partitioning/splitting is more efficient. Mouse. I don't see many people using a mouse with a laptop.

 

[heatlesssun]

You keep assuming your usage is some kind of norm, when it is more of a tiny niche.

I'm basing everything I've said on talking to tablet PC users over the users, events and common sense. The price of a base Surface Pro 3 is well beyond the average Windows laptop. There's little reason to buy it if the user is always going to use it with the keyboard cover and never use it as a tablet with touch and pen. If I am assuming anything it's that people that spend this kind of money for a PC know this as well.

Do you care to define those specs in more detail. Do you need help?
https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/products/surface-pro-3


There are very few big slates without attached keyboards, because once they get big enough they turn into more serious laptops, so many like the Yoga, attach better keyboards to make them much more usable in that mode.

You're overthinking this. All I've said from the beginning when I started this thread is that a large, expensive slate device needs to have digital pen support because that's the most reliable base of buyers for this kind of device. They will buy year after year and the cost isn't an issue. Microsoft and Apple seem be thinking much more along these lines than that it's a tiny niche.

The importance of windowing is questionable on a small screen. Screen partitioning/splitting is more efficient. Mouse. I don't see many people using a mouse with a laptop.

A 12.9" screen isn't small even for a laptop these days. LOL! Mouse, trackpad, pointing device, yeah, you see everyone using a laptop use some form of pointing device.

But I do see you point to some extent. I do think that windowing works better on larger screens. But laptops, especially more expensive ones used for productivity purposes do get plugged often into larger screens. There split screen just doesn't work as well because it's too confining. This is one area where Microsoft did a good job with Windows 10. Want to do split screen while in "tablet mode" which can be engaged with any device that has touch at any time, use that and works for Win32 and store apps. Need traditional desktop windowing, use that and again, it works consistently for all types of apps.

I would strongly suspect that whenever Apple does get fully into convergence whatever approach they take will have something similar.

 

[Snowdog]

You're overthinking this. All I've said from the beginning when I started this thread is that a large, expensive slate device needs to have digital pen support because that's the most reliable base of buyers for this kind of device. They will buy year after year and the cost isn't an issue. Microsoft and Apple seem be thinking much more along these lines than that it's a tiny niche.

I am not over thinking this. You claimed most big tablets have a stylus, to do that you narrowed the definition of a big tablet to be a Surface Pro.

There are dozens of different 10"+ pure slate tablets that dont' have stylus, dozens more with attached keyboards.

To make your point you start eliminating those with attached keyboards, those that don't cost enough (??) etc, until you narrow the definition down to a being a Surface Pro.

That isn't any kind of reasonable argument.

 

[heatlesssun]

I am not over thinking this. You claimed most big tablets have a stylus, to do that you narrowed the definition of a big tablet to be a Surface Pro.

There are dozens of different 10"+ pure slate tablets that dont' have stylus, dozens more with attached keyboards.

To make your point you start eliminating those with attached keyboards, those that don't cost enough (??) etc, until you narrow the definition down to a being a Surface Pro.

That isn't any kind of reasonable argument.

Huh? How can cost not be a huge factor in all of this? I bought a 10.1" Windows hybrid from Walmart last November for $179. Even came with a keyboard and it doesn't support a digital pen. But it was $179, so basically a tablet for $10 more than the price of Apple's iPad Pro keyboard. At that price so what if it doesn't have a digital pen? Two of Apple's pencils would be more than this. And trust me, most that buy one will eventually buy more than one. At $800 obviously there are more expectations of something. And turning it into a kind of laptop when, at least in the PC world, there are better laptops isn't enough.

From the very first post I made in this thread eight months ago about these rumors which were pretty much right on the money I said that money is what people who want digital pens are easily willing to spend for the right tool. And they'll do it repeatedly for the right experience.

Computing is a complex experience. We all like to think we understand how it all works, how everyone thinks, that there's only value where we see it. And that's just not the case. People will pay a lot of money for good pen enabled devices and they will do it year after year. If Apple is making such a device do you really think they disagree?

 

[Snowdog]

Huh? How can cost not be a huge factor in all of this?

You have it backwards. Digitizers make tablets more expensive, so yes tablets with digitizers generally cost more than those without, but expensive tablets dont' have to have digitizers.

Here you go: $1500 tablet without a digitizer.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2690...of-windows-tablet-and-all-in-one-desktop.html

 

[heatlesssun]

You have it backwards. Digitizers make tablets more expensive, so yes tablets with digitizers generally cost more than those without, but expensive tablets dont' have to have digitizers.

Here you go: $1500 tablet without a digitizer.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2690...of-windows-tablet-and-all-in-one-desktop.html

LOL! Obviously you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this. And that's fine. You and Terpfen gave be a good beat down on this. All I will say in my own defense is that the reality all being up pretty much like I was pointing out months ago.

For the guy that's always called a Microsoft apologist it's refreshing to see Apple folks bash the hell out of me for pointing out something that was pretty much entirely correct months ago.

 

[|Tch0rT|]

Dropped the ball? The reality is despite being more expensive than a Surface Pro, when equipped with Stylus and Keyboard, and despite running on lower power SoC, and despite having less connectivity and expansion, and despite having a "less capable OS", the iPad Pro will outsell the Surface Pro.

So it's better simply just because it'll outsell Surface Pro's? It's my fault for actually kind of hoping that one day Apple will make a product that might appeal to me. It's my opinion they dropped the ball, I don't care about the lower specs and all that. I care about a full OS will full desktop capabilities in a portable device, not a big iPhone (now with a stylus!). I hate mobile OS's (that is outside phone style device formats, and I even hate Android too) and their Skinner box eco system of gimped apps that part out programs in 99 cent chunks of fuck you because we can. Mobile "apps" cramp my work flow cuz these devices are built for playing Candy Crush and Clash of Clans. When I had an iPad all I did was play freemium bullshit games and get frustrated that Safari refreshed the tab I was just on yet again even though the page isn't very resource intense. I tried painting with it and there are some cool apps like Procreate but the iPad and OS weren't built for that, all that sort of stuff aimed at artists with the bluetooth pressure sensitive styluses is just hobbled on crap compared to even el cheapo Monoprice and Yiynova graphics tablets. I sold the iPad and got a Surface Pro, guess what? I can actually produce art on it. I'm just a hobbyist digital painter, I'm sure there's tons of pro's out there that are just as disappointed by the iPad Pro due to iOS instead of OSX. It's just stupid it's aimed towards professionals and it's build around mobile Preskool style OS. I realize my needs are pretty niche but it would've been nice to see Apple do a full OS in tablet form even though they'd probably charge double the prices of the iPad Pro for device like that .

 

[CEpeep]

So it's better simply just because it'll outsell Surface Pro's? It's my fault for actually kind of hoping that one day Apple will make a product that might appeal to me. I realize my needs are pretty niche but it would've been nice to see Apple do a full OS in tablet form even though they'd probably charge double the prices of the iPad Pro for device like that .

Touch and WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointer) are mutually exclusive for Apple and represent different interaction paradigms. You haven't been paying very much attention if you thought Apple would make a touch-enabled device with a WIMP desktop. If a WIMP desktop is the only thing you consider a "full OS" then your view is far too narrow. Remember that the first 40 years of computing were done without WIMP. Surely you don't think WIMP will be dominant another 40 years?

 

[Snowdog]

LOL! Obviously you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this. And that's fine. You and Terpfen gave be a good beat down on this. All I will say in my own defense is that the reality all being up pretty much like I was pointing out months ago.

For the guy that's always called a Microsoft apologist it's refreshing to see Apple folks bash the hell out of me for pointing out something that was pretty much entirely correct months ago.

Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. Even a stopped clock is correct twice/day. You have a long way to go to match a stopped clock for accuracy.

Aside from your Microsoft obsession, you biggest obsession is with pen computing, so you see much larger importance to pen computing than it really has. In reality outside of artists there is practically no significant use case for pen computing.

It is a nice bonus that Apple decided to sell an accessory pen for artists. But this has nothing to do with size of the screen in could have been done last year for the Air 2, and likely will work on next years Air 3.

The real meat and potatoes here, is the laptop size, and proper size keyboard to go with it. To me that signals a move of iOS into the laptop space. That is a much more seismic shift than adding a pen accessory.

 

[Skripka]

Touch and WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointer) are mutually exclusive for Apple and represent different interaction paradigms. You haven't been paying very much attention if you thought Apple would make a touch-enabled device with a WIMP desktop. If a WIMP desktop is the only thing you consider a "full OS" then your view is far too narrow. Remember that the first 40 years of computing were done without WIMP. Surely you don't think WIMP will be dominant another 40 years?

The first 40 years of electronics were done with vacuum tubes. Surely you don't think transistors will be dominant for the next 40 years?

Pre-WIMP days are widely regarded as the dark-ages of computing.

 

[CEpeep]

The first 40 years of electronics were done with vacuum tubes. Surely you don't think transistors will be dominant for the next 40 years?

Pre-WIMP days are widely regarded as the dark-ages of computing.

Yeah, and WIMP will be looked on the same way in retrospect once we surpass it. That doesn't mean that it's not useful and just as qualified to be a component of a "full OS" as touch input, speech input, neural input or whatever else the future holds. WIMP is a component of a desktop user interface and has no bearing at all on whether or not the system is running a "full OS" or not. I do meaningful work on a "full OS" every single day that can only be interacted with through a text-based terminal and keyboard input. If you think that means I'm working "in the dark ages" you have no idea what you're talking about. I also do meaningful work every day on a "full OS" that can only be interacted with through touch. If you think that means I must be playing Clash of Clans all day, you also have no idea what you are talking about. The idea that somehow a computer isn't running a "full OS" because you have to interact with it in a way different than what you are accustomed to already is complete horseshit. It implies that WIMP (or whatever else you like) is the end-all and be-all of computing, which couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

 

[heatlesssun]

The real meat and potatoes here, is the laptop size, and proper size keyboard to go with it. To me that signals a move of iOS into the laptop space. That is a much more seismic shift than adding a pen accessory.

We've been down the road of attaching keyboards to mobile OS tablets in an attempt to turn them into laptop replacements. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well. And sure, the large, beautiful screen of the iPad Pro does address the screen size issue. But for something the price of an iPad Pro when compared to conventional laptops, even hybrid Windows machines, there's a lot that's not there. No mouse pointer capability? No external monitors and limited expansion? Split screen multitasking only? Single source app store with no ability to install traditional desktop centric apps?

I'm not saying you're wrong long term about iOS going to laptops and possibly beyond, but iOS and iPads at this simply don't do a lot of things that people commonly expect of laptops, especially at the prices we're talking about, at least outside of the Apple world. And of course adding a digital pen isn't seismic shift, it's a tactical move to draw interest from a market that will spend the money for something like this that aren't trying to use it as a half-assed laptop but for something that traditional laptops don't do as well.

 

[VladDracule]

We've been down the road of attaching keyboards to mobile OS tablets in an attempt to turn them into laptop replacements. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well. And sure, the large, beautiful screen of the iPad Pro does address the screen size issue. But for something the price of an iPad Pro when compared to conventional laptops, even hybrid Windows machines, there's a lot that's not there. No mouse pointer capability? No external monitors and limited expansion? Split screen multitasking only? Single source app store with no ability to install traditional desktop centric apps?

I'm not saying you're wrong long term about iOS going to laptops and possibly beyond, but iOS and iPads at this simply don't do a lot of things that people commonly expect of laptops, especially at the prices we're talking about, at least outside of the Apple world. And of course adding a digital pen isn't seismic shift, it's a tactical move to draw interest from a market that will spend the money for something like this that aren't trying to use it as a half-assed laptop but for something that traditional laptops don't do as well.

Or even the Samsung note 12" which is the exact same thing as the ipad pro yet again for a cheaper price...

 

[CEpeep]

Or even the Samsung note 12" which is the exact same thing as the ipad pro yet again for a cheaper price...

If it's the exact same thing, how come it won't run my apps?

 

[VladDracule]

If it's the exact same thing, how come it won't run my apps?

Because your app developers are too lazy to port it to android?

 

[Aurelius]

Or even the Samsung note 12" which is the exact same thing as the ipad pro yet again for a cheaper price...

Only the iPad has a larger and higher-res screen, a faster processor, better multi-window support and a much better tablet app ecosystem.

I swear, this is a rehash of the tired "I can get a similarly-equipped Windows PC for half the price" myth that people drag out when they're trying to attack Macs.

 

[VladDracule]

Only the iPad has a larger and higher-res screen, a faster processor, better multi-window support and a much better tablet app ecosystem.

I swear, this is a rehash of the tired "I can get a similarly-equipped Windows PC for half the price" myth that people drag out when they're trying to attack Macs.

better multiwindow support when multiwindow support hasnt even officially launched? How do you figure that? Same old tired ill eat up anything apple puts out bullshit that every apple supporter has.

As far as the processor goes fine, its faster, but guess why that is? Its coming out 3 years later. Better tablet app ecosystem in what sense? For virtually every single app that people use on ipad will have a replacement on android aside from some highly specialized low use ones

Using the EXACT same concept/implementation as your competitors have been using for years, with newer specs because your late to the party, is not being innovative. I can't believe people who defend this type of thing actually exist

 

[Snowdog]

We've been down the road of attaching keyboards to mobile OS tablets in an attempt to turn them into laptop replacements. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well.

It seems that Apple does a good job of taking ideas that didn't quite work that well for others, and making very successful product lines.

But for something the price of an iPad Pro when compared to conventional laptops, even hybrid Windows machines...

How about compared to the price of an Apple laptop? This has the potential to lower the entry level price to get some kind of Apple laptop, using in house designed ARM SoC instead of expensive Intel chips.

there's a lot that's not there. No mouse pointer capability? No external monitors and limited expansion? Split screen multitasking only? Single source app store with no ability to install traditional desktop centric apps?

You are making the same derogatory comments about lack of "serious capability" people made about the original iPad. Also complaining about single source app store in 2015? 2009 called and wants it's weak complaint back.

I don't think you need to "desktop centric" apps to have a successful laptop, you need "Laptop centric" apps. Apple seems to have an army of high quality developers that will quickly address any missing software. But from day one it will have the basics that most people actually use: Web browser and office suite (Apple Productivity included for free, MS office available).

Some people have been asking when does Apple get a touchscreen laptop. This is the closest thing yet, and IMO when the first real clamshell touchscreen laptop arrives from Apple, it will be running iOS, not OSX.

 

[CEpeep]

Because your app developers are too lazy to port it to android?

How is that my problem as a user? More importantly, how is it a motivation to move to a competing platform? Maybe I'm ok with the people who make fabulous apps I like to use every day being lazy? I like to be lazy sometimes. I feel I've earned some lazy time when I make something great.

If some lazy people are all it takes to undermine your product, you need to do a better job.

For virtually every single app that people use on ipad will have a replacement on android aside from some highly specialized low use ones

Too bad it's that 20% of apps that are the platform sellers and not the other 80% that are ubiquitous. Someone buying a tablet for a browser and Netflix is not looking at an iPad Pro.

 

[heatlesssun]

It seems that Apple does a good job of taking ideas that didn't quite work that well for others, and making very successful product lines.

Fair point. But what specifically is does the iPad Pro do that's makes it a tablet that converts better to a laptop than existing devices?

How about compared to the price of an Apple laptop? This has the potential to lower the entry level price to get some kind of Apple laptop, using in house designed ARM SoC instead of expensive Intel chips.

Again fair point. But this isn't anything like existing Apple laptops since it's a tablet and doesn't run desktop software. Not saying there isn't a market for it but I don't it would be large.

You are making the same derogatory comments about lack of "serious capability" people made about the original iPad. Also complaining about single source app store in 2015? 2009 called and wants it's weak complaint back.

LOL! iPads don't work with mice or track pads, support external monitors or traditional desktop software. There original purpose of the iPad that many Apple folks pointed out in 2010, was to provide a simplified, touch experience without desktop complexity. And it does that extremely well. That doesn't mean it can't do complex things but that's not what it's geared for. I don't know of any reasonable person that would disagree with this assessment.

I don't think you need to "desktop centric" apps to have a successful laptop, you need "Laptop centric" apps. Apple seems to have an army of high quality developers that will quickly address any missing software. But from day one it will have the basics that most people actually use: Web browser and office suite (Apple Productivity included for free, MS office available).

Not really sure I get the distinct you're making here between "laptop" and "desktop" centric. It would seem to be something that wouldn't translate at least today well as laptops and desktops are interchangeable.

Some people have been asking when does Apple get a touchscreen laptop. This is the closest thing yet, and IMO when the first real clamshell touchscreen laptop arrives from Apple, it will be running iOS, not OSX.

I know every well about this. Indeed people were asking for Mac convertibles since the first tablet PCs came out an there was a company back in those days that moded Macs with swivel hinges IIRC.

I don't disagree that Apple will go the iOS route with its hybrid attempts. But I don't think that's an easy sell for most laptop users, even Mac users that are going to want something that's more flexible than iOS is currently.

 

[CEpeep]

I don't disagree that Apple will go the iOS route with its hybrid attempts. But I don't think that's an easy sell for most laptop users, even Mac users that are going to want something that's more flexible than iOS is currently.

Yeah, this is really important if they're eventually going to get their developers to move from a Mac to an iOS based device to develop apps on. They have a long way to go to transform iOS into something you'd want to use to build iOS apps. The foundation for this (Swift language, Smart Keyboard, etc.) has been laid but there's a very long way to go.

Compare this to Windows where the vast majority of Windows apps are built by developers working directly on Windows. Windows developers can build apps for the tablet and phone and fully test them (including touch interaction) with a relatively inexpensive and widely available touchscreen laptop. Right now, I'm not sure how that user could be wooed into using and developing for iOS. Apple has a long way to go on this front, and Microsoft has a huge leg up in terms of implementation. I believe that eventually satisfying this type of user with iOS is an undercurrent that will become stronger with each iPad iteration from here on. The iPad Pro is a massive leap toward this goal, but doesn't cover a lot of ground in the big picture.

 

[Snowdog]

Fair point. But what specifically is does the iPad Pro do that's makes it a tablet that converts better to a laptop than existing devices?

The same things the iPad has going for it over tablet competitors: Simplicity, Polish, Developers.

LOL! iPads don't work with mice or track pads, support external monitors or traditional desktop software. There original purpose of the iPad that many Apple folks pointed out in 2010, was to provide a simplified, touch experience without desktop complexity.

You keep acting as if Microsofts model is the only way to do this.

How many Macbook owners do you see using a mouse? I have never seen even one.

Also for a lightweight travel laptop, external monitor usage is all but irrelevant. Heck most of my friends who uses a laptop at home, never connects it to an external monitor. AFAIK iPads also have some limited external monitor capability for presentations.

You keep harping on desktop software. Exactly what critical OSX desktop software do you think is missing from a potential iOS laptop?

You seem incapable of thinking outside your Microsoft box, that says any device must be include everything and the kitchen sink. Often less is more.

 

[VladDracule]

The same things the iPad has going for it over tablet competitors: Simplicity, Polish, Developers.



You keep acting as if Microsofts model is the only way to do this.

How many Macbook owners do you see using a mouse? I have never seen even one.

Also for a lightweight travel laptop, external monitor usage is all but irrelevant. Heck most of my friends who uses a laptop at home, never connects it to an external monitor. AFAIK iPads also have some limited external monitor capability for presentations.

You keep harping on desktop software. Exactly what critical OSX desktop software do you think is missing from a potential iOS laptop?

You seem incapable of thinking outside your Microsoft box, that says any device must be include everything and the kitchen sink. Often less is more.

lets see...xcode for one, or really ANY form of coding/compiler support. And i for one never use my macbook without a mouse

 

[Snowdog]

lets see...xcode for one, or really ANY form of coding/compiler support. And i for one never use my macbook without a mouse

What percentage of Apple Laptop buyers do you think currently use Xcode? I bet a very small number (under 5%).

It is important to have some laptops that run Xcode, which most will continue to do, but it is NOT important that every every device run Xcode.

Again this is another example of the mindset that every device must do everything. It simply is not the case.

 

[VladDracule]

What percentage of Apple Laptop buyers do you think currently use Xcode? I bet a very small number (under 5%).

It is important to have some laptops that run Xcode, which most will continue to do, but it is NOT important that every every device run Xcode.

Again this is another example of the mindset that every device must do everything. It simply is not the case.

No it isnt that mindset, its the fact that they are charging MORE than devices that offer MORE functionality being an utter joke

 

[Snowdog]

No it isnt that mindset, its the fact that they are charging MORE than devices that offer MORE functionality being an utter joke

If that is your criteria, why did you ever buy a Macbook? Surely you could have found a Windows laptop that did "more" for "less".

 

[VladDracule]

If that is your criteria, why did you ever buy a Macbook? Surely you could have found a Windows laptop that did "more" for "less".

Because my job requires it? I didnt buy it it was supplied in addition to windows and a dedicated linux machine