Is Apple making an 'iPad Pro' with a stylus?

The question is whether companies like Samsung and Microsoft sell enough pen-based tablets that Apple would see that there's a serious, burgeoning market for them. I don't think they do, and it's hard to know how many of those buyers actually use the stylus on a frequent basis. It's easy to point to there being a few million Surface Pro 3 owners, for example, but how many of them just treat it as a finger-based tablet with a clever keyboard?

Not that this rules out an iPad with a pen, but Apple's focus has long been on tackling features it believes would appeal to the majority. And let's face it... while there's a market for pen input, it's in the minority.
 
A better question for Apple might be how many people use capacitive styli on iPads currently.
 
So here's the latest news: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ay-larger-ipad-production-on-panel-challenges

I guess some were thinking that this would be announced at the watch event next week but it looks like now it's going to be September. Nothing in this Bloomberg about a pen but this report is saying that this device is for the enterprise, which makes sense given that it won't be cheap. No mention of pen here.
 
My iPad sits gathering dust. I've tried finding a use for it but I don't have children to play games or watch YouTube videos on it so it doesn't get any use. If it had an active digitizer I would use it a lot more often, that's for sure. Even with the pen I bought for it, it's terrible for taking notes/drawing with. If they came out with a pen like the Galaxy Tab series has I'd run out and buy one in a heartbeat.
 
heatlesssun said:
So here's the latest news: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ay-larger-ipad-production-on-panel-challenges

I guess some were thinking that this would be announced at the watch event next week but it looks like now it's going to be September. Nothing in this Bloomberg about a pen but this report is saying that this device is for the enterprise, which makes sense given that it won't be cheap. No mention of pen here.
Click to expand...

"We weren't wrong, it was just delayed" is the usual excuse when Apple rumors turn out to be, well, wrong.
 
Personally not that interested since iOS is not a suitable platform for me but was still hoping for a sooner release to put more pressure on the Surface line and similar products.
 
limitedaccess said:
Personally not that interested since iOS is not a suitable platform for me but was still hoping for a sooner release to put more pressure on the Surface line and similar products.
Click to expand...

There is no sales comparison between the iPad and the Surface. There's an iPad market doing very, very, very well, and then everything else is gathering dust. If that doesn't pressure Microsoft, then nothing will.
 
Terpfen said:
There is no sales comparison between the iPad and the Surface. There's an iPad market doing very, very, very well, and then everything else is gathering dust. If that doesn't pressure Microsoft, then nothing will.
Click to expand...

The iPad saw a 14.6% reduction in unit sales year over year from 2013 to 2014 in a market that while significantly slower growing last year still grew at about 4%. That's not the death of the iPad, it's still the best selling branded tablet but and I understand that larger iPhones more than made up for the difference and that larger iPhones probably had a lot to do with the loss of iPad sales.

But double digit negative growth for a current major product line in a major market is something that Apple certainly isn't just shrugging off as no big deal. And I don't think that devices like the Surface Pro 3 had much if anything to do with that. However a large productivity focused tablet would be a new product line for Apple, one with high margins. They certainly aren't going to expand the iPad line with cheap sub $100 devices.
 
heatlesssun said:
The iPad saw a 14.6% reduction in unit sales year over year from 2013 to 2014 in a market that while significantly slower growing last year still grew at about 4%. That's not the death of the iPad, it's still the best selling branded tablet but and I understand that larger iPhones more than made up for the difference and that larger iPhones probably had a lot to do with the loss of iPad sales.
Click to expand...

Or... iPads do not see the replacement rate of iPhones because they are not typically sold with 2 year contracts. That's a far more likely explanation than your "iPhones are cannibalizing iPads" train of thought.

You and I have been over this. The iPad replacement rate is more akin to the desktop PC than a cell phone. Comparing the iPad to the iPhone is a fallacy. Their commonality is that they run iOS. Otherwise, they are different devices.

And I don't think that devices like the Surface Pro 3 had much if anything to do with that
Click to expand...

This is all you had to say. The rest is just fluff.

They certainly aren't going to expand the iPad line with cheap sub $100 devices.
Click to expand...

They are not making sub $100 iPads. They have two sub $100 devices: the Apple TV and the lowest tier iPhone. What are you even talking about here?
 
Terpfen said:
Or... iPads do not see the replacement rate of iPhones because they are not typically sold with 2 year contracts. That's a far more likely explanation than your "iPhones are cannibalizing iPads" train of thought.

You and I have been over this. The iPad replacement rate is more akin to the desktop PC than a cell phone. Comparing the iPad to the iPhone is a fallacy. Their commonality is that they run iOS. Otherwise, they are different devices.
Click to expand...

I'm FAR from the only one making the point that larger phones are replacements tablets, particularly smaller ones.

Terpfen said:
They are not making sub $100 iPads.
Click to expand...

And that's the point. Regardless of old iPhones and TV devices that would never command iPad prices, Apple's not going to purse the low end tablet market. That's why it makes sense that if they were to expand the iPad it would be on the upper end of the price scale.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
I'm FAR from the only one making the point that larger phones are replacements tablets, particularly smaller ones.
Click to expand...

And you are FAR from the only person who is wrong. iPad sales were down before the iPhone 6 Plus was announced. Were prospective iPad owners instead buying large Android phones? No, because the sales data doesn't support that conclusion. The largest dent the iPhone 6 Plus has made in the mobile device market is to Samsung's sales, meaning that there were people who wanted a larger iPhone and went with Samsung to approximate an iPhone (all that copying paid off for them). Once the real thing came along, they abandoned Samsung. Samsung's response has been to copy even more overtly.

None of this has anything to do with the iPad's sales.

And that's the point. Regardless of old iPhones and TV devices that would never command iPad prices, Apple's not going to purse the low end tablet market. That's why it makes sense that if they were to expand the iPad it would be on the upper end of the price scale.
Click to expand...

The way to expand iPad sales is to continue to eat into desktop PC sales. Add iPad sales in to Mac sales and Apple becomes world's number one computer OEM. That is the growth market, and that's also why the replacement rate is lower than phones.
 
Terpfen said:
And you are FAR from the only person who is wrong. iPad sales were down before the iPhone 6 Plus was announced. Were prospective iPad owners instead buying large Android phones? No, because the sales data doesn't support that conclusion. The largest dent the iPhone 6 Plus has made in the mobile device market is to Samsung's sales, meaning that there were people who wanted a larger iPhone and went with Samsung to approximate an iPhone (all that copying paid off for them). Once the real thing came along, they abandoned Samsung. Samsung's response has been to copy even more overtly.

None of this has anything to do with the iPad's sales.
Click to expand...

I never said that iPad sales were down only because of larger iPhones. Sure, tablet lifecycles have grown. And there's a ton of decent tablets out there that are much cheaper.

Terpfen said:
The way to expand iPad sales is to continue to eat into desktop PC sales. Add iPad sales in to Mac sales and Apple becomes world's number one computer OEM. That is the growth market, and that's also why the replacement rate is lower than phones.
Click to expand...

I find it ironic that you would make these points yet resist the notion of the iPad being more PC like, a larger screen in this case. One issue in the slowdown of tablets that has come up a lot is that mobile OS tablets aren't necessarily as good at replacing PCs as many thought initially.
 
heatlesssun said:
I find it ironic that you would make these points yet resist the notion of the iPad being more PC like, a larger screen in this case. One issue in the slowdown of tablets that has come up a lot is that mobile OS tablets aren't necessarily as good at replacing PCs as many thought initially.
Click to expand...

Because how a device is physically used and how it is best represented and charted as an economic study are two wildly different things. Your stated "issue" is actually not an issue, and is just an ideological wedge for you to present yet another "Microsoft has a great solution to this!" post. You again conflate tablets with iPads when we have already established that they are wildly different markets sales-wise. There is no thriving tablet market, there is a thriving iPad market. The best way to illustrate the iPad's success, and demolish the silly "iPad fad is over" meme, is to count iPad sales as desktop computer sales—it illustrates the absurdity of the meme and the fundamental economic illiteracy of those proclaiming it.

You're going to be That Guy in 2-3 years proclaiming the Apple Watch over and the future Surface Chronometer a clear and able replacement all on the basis of plateaued Apple Watch sales, ignoring that most people don't buy new watches every 2 years—especially luxury watches. Meanwhile, Apple will be raking in the money, and it will appear to be mind control to forums like [H].
 
Terpfen said:
You again conflate tablets with iPads when we have already established that they are wildly different markets sales-wise.
Click to expand...

Then why have you repeatedly made the point about if iPads were counted as PCs then Apple would be the biggest PC maker in the world?

Terpfen said:
There is no thriving tablet market, there is a thriving iPad market. The best way to illustrate the iPad's success, and demolish the silly "iPad fad is over" meme, is to count iPad sales as desktop computer sales—it illustrates the absurdity of the meme and the fundamental economic illiteracy of those proclaiming it.
Click to expand...

The iPad has huge margins sure. And I've not said anything about the iPad being over, this thread is about rumors of the FUTURE of the iPad, not its end. LOL!:D If indeed the iPad is thriving and the tablet market isn't, then gee, a larger iPad expanding the lineup would be exactly the kind of thing that one would expect from a thriving product line.
 
Terpfen said:
There is no sales comparison between the iPad and the Surface. There's an iPad market doing very, very, very well, and then everything else is gathering dust. If that doesn't pressure Microsoft, then nothing will.
Click to expand...

Apple is an "industry leader" (even though many don't wish to look at it this way) in the sense that what they do has a large industry effect.

Look at MS's Surface Pro event for example, the comparison in the presentation was rather focused against Apple products. Hopefully if Apple does adopt an active digitizer with stylus device this would put even more pressure not just on MS but the entire market to focus more on this segment. As opposed to possibly moving away from stylus/digitizer support. There's also economy of scale (and competition) bringing down costs for feature as well.

Possibly also the mobile application ecosystem adapting as well? Such as Adobe putting more resources into ARM and mobile photoshop? This may make ARM OSes a more suitable alternative (at least for me).

I'm basically rather focused on stylus support for productivity (and fun) on the go. As a side note this is why I'd consider the Surface Pro (or similar) to be more productive in lap than a traditional laptop, as I don't consider productivity to be typing focused.
 
limitedaccess said:
Hopefully if Apple does adopt an active digitizer with stylus device this would put even more pressure not just on MS but the entire market to focus more on this segment.
Click to expand...

It won't happen. Look at the new Macbook. Apple is always looking for ways to include less, not more.
 
limitedaccess said:
Apple is an "industry leader" (even though many don't wish to look at it this way) in the sense that what they do has a large industry effect.

Look at MS's Surface Pro event for example, the comparison in the presentation was rather focused against Apple products.
Click to expand...

Obviously Apple is a top industry leader. But what else can you compare a Surface Pro 3 against that isn't made by one of Microsoft's hardware partners? The comparison that Microsoft is making here is the only one they can make.
 
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I wish Apple would team up with Wacom and make a device similar to what they have with Windows 8 and also Android (they have two versions).

If they had something at that level they could take a big part of the untapped creative market that want a creation tool on the go. Right now if you want that kind of device, basically Android and PC is the only market alternative. And I don't think I need to explain that a majority (but not all) creatives prefer working in OSX (or iOS as the case may be).

Selling the stylus is the thing. Is Apple willing to try and get this market and get more people into their walled garden? I know it would be niche, but it would integrate well with the rest of their lineup. I guess I would say you'd justify its low selling numbers for the same reason why Apple needs a halo product like the Mac Pro at the high end.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
Then why have you repeatedly made the point about if iPads were counted as PCs then Apple would be the biggest PC maker in the world?
Click to expand...

This is why everyone on [H] hates talking to you; anything said to you goes in one ear and out the other. I literally explained this in the post you quoted.
 
Terpfen said:
This is why everyone on [H] hates talking to you; anything said to you goes in one ear and out the other. I literally explained this in the post you quoted.
Click to expand...

All I've done was point out rumors about the future of the iPad and made my speculations. The sources are credible and while they are not always right they are far from always wrong.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS25480015

And of course IDC is well known for its blown predictions. However the point of tablet market growth has already occurred, no matter the reason.


Terpfen said:
The way to expand iPad sales is to continue to eat into desktop PC sales. Add iPad sales in to Mac sales and Apple becomes world's number one computer OEM. That is the growth market, and that's also why the replacement rate is lower than phones.
Click to expand...

Ok, fine. The way to expand iPad sales is to continue to eat into desktop PC sales. Your words, not mine. So the question is how? Wouldn't a larger iPad be one way to accomplish this?
 
heatlesssun said:
Ok, fine. The way to expand iPad sales is to continue to eat into desktop PC sales. Your words, not mine. So the question is how? Wouldn't a larger iPad be one way to accomplish this?
Click to expand...

The point is that it already happened. Why does Apple need to release a new device to accomplish a market objective that has already been achieved?

Old PCs will be replaced with new iPads. The replacement rate of iPads will fluctuate up or down a little depending on the rate of old PCs being discarded for new iPads plus the rate of old iPads replaced with new iPads.
 
Terpfen said:
The point is that it already happened.
Click to expand...

But tablet sales growth has flattened and iPad sales are shrinking faster than PC sales currently.

Terpfen said:
Old PCs will be replaced with new iPads. The replacement rate of iPads will fluctuate up or down a little depending on the rate of old PCs being discarded for new iPads plus the rate of old iPads replaced with new iPads.
Click to expand...

Or old PCs will be replaced by cheaper devices than iPads like many Windows tablets or laptops or Chromebooks.
 
So I guess today is the day we should know if there's going to be an iPad Pro. My guess based on the rumors:

12.9" 4:3 aspect ratio at 2732 x 2048 resolution screen with force touch
Optional official Apple keyboard & pen/stylus
Starting at $799 for 32 GB version up to $999 for 128 GB with LTE option

Guess we'll know in a couple of hours.
 
heatlesssun said:
So I guess today is the day we should know if there's going to be an iPad Pro. My guess based on the rumors:

12.9" 4:3 aspect ratio at 2732 x 2048 resolution screen with force touch
Optional official Apple keyboard & pen/stylus
Starting at $799 for 32 GB version up to $999 for 128 GB with LTE option

Guess we'll know in a couple of hours.
Click to expand...

Unless the Pro is replacing the regular iPad I don't see it sandwiching too close to the iPad pricing ... I would also expect a 256 GB option with the Pro (I could certainly use the space as my iPad is always full) ... if they take the plunge with the Pro I would expect them to place it to complete with laptops and the Surface ... but we will know for sure in a couple of hours (if they actually do announce today as rumored)
 
kbrickley said:
Unless the Pro is replacing the regular iPad I don't see it sandwiching too close to the iPad pricing ... I would also expect a 256 GB option with the Pro (I could certainly use the space as my iPad is always full) ... if they take the plunge with the Pro I would expect them to place it to complete with laptops and the Surface ... but we will know for sure in a couple of hours (if they actually do announce today as rumored)
Click to expand...

I think a base price separation of $300 on something that starts at $500 isn't a problem. I know some complained about the Surface 3's base price of $500 compared to that of the Surface Pro 3's of $800 and that a Surface 3 with all the trimmings encroached on the base Pro 3. But they are significantly different enough devices with enough price separation at the bottom that I don't think some overlap is that problematic. The physical size of the devices in particular. And that would be even bigger between the 9.7" iPad and a 12.9" iPad Pro.

I think idea here is not so much to compere with standard laptops but more so 2 in 1s which while a smallish market is very hot right now and has become more than niche. Right now Apple doesn't have anything in that category except literally two different devices.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think a base price separation of $300 on something that starts at $500 isn't a problem. I know some complained about the Surface 3's base price of $500 compared to that of the Surface Pro 3's of $800 and that a Surface 3 with all the trimmings encroached on the base Pro 3. But they are significantly different enough devices with enough price separation at the bottom that I don't think some overlap is that problematic. The physical size of the devices in particular. And that would be even bigger between the 9.7" iPad and a 12.9" iPad Pro.

I think idea here is not so much to compere with standard laptops but more so 2 in 1s which while a smallish market is very hot right now and has become more than niche. Right now Apple doesn't have anything in that category except literally two different devices.
Click to expand...

It ultimately comes down to who the perceived customer of the Pro is ... if it is targeting business/professionals then getting too low in price isn't critical ... if the consumer market is the target then price can be more critical than the features ... just another hour or so and we may know
 
kbrickley said:
It ultimately comes down to who the perceived customer of the Pro is ... if it is targeting business/professionals then getting too low in price isn't critical ... if the consumer market is the target then price can be more critical than the features ... just another hour or so and we may know
Click to expand...

It's certainly targeted at businesses, professionals and students, the same as the 2 in 1 market. The average selling price for a tablet these days for consumers is well below the base price of the iPad Air 2 so even at $499 I'd say it's not a consumer tablet, not priced like one. And that's where the falloff of iPad sales has been.

The days of growing demand for $500 tablets, even iPads, in the consumer market are done. That's why so many companies are now in the lower unit, higher margin larger tablet/hybrid market now.
 
Interesting with 4 speakers and the scaling to run original iPad apps side by side :cool:
 
I'm hoping to see some decent price drops on the iPad Air 2. About all I do with my Mini is watch movies, TV, and read e-books/magazines. A bigger screen would be nice.
 
"There has never been a device like the IPad Pro"....

Yes, there has. It's called the Surface
 
dook43 said:
"There has never been a device like the IPad Pro"....

Yes, there has. It's called the Surface
Click to expand...

You guys really need to learn how to listen for more than 2 seconds. They always mention iOS or Apple at the end of those sentences. There has never been a device like the iPad Pro with/in iOS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top