iPhone 4 - signal propagation issues because of "the band"?

Now that makes a bit more sense, was getting it backwards the first time I read it. :)

Yeah, the signal strength indication was what I figured you were meaning which is well known (and I agree, it wasn't a last minute thing so what's with the delay on the "fix) but... I honestly don't think the issues with the actual (apparent) hardware issue because of skin-on-metal contact for a huge number of people (and still growing) can be addressed quite so easily.

We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

Naysayers will give Apple a pass and say "Just get a case" which is entirely missing the point, but stupid people usually do, no real surprises there. This appears to be the first cellphone where a case is required for proper operation of the device. ;)
 
Bahamut said:
We'll find out soon enough I suppose.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The issue might have everything to do with the way signal strength is reported, in which case 4.0.1 will end the problem; or it might not, and the firestorm will continue. Tough to say if what Mossberg observed is the same thing as what owners are observing now, but there has to be some relation because they both have to do with the reliability of signal reception and the indication of that reception.
 
Goddammit, this antenna thing is so stupid, yet this phone is otherwise so frigging nice (just got home with mine).

Honestly, I have a bigger issue with the way Apple has handled the PR with this than the issue itself. I had no idea but this is an even bigger problem with phones than I was aware of. Grabbed from Macrumors:

Nexus One: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en
Nokia 6230: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_RP7Fn1w8Q

It is clear that many phones have the same problems whether we know it or not. The problem with the iPhone 4 though is that they pretty much put a BULLSEYE where you can reliably recreate the problem, then they say that you should hold it differently. I dunno, even if all phones have this problem it is still a fundamental design issue and it rubs me the wrong way.

Otherwise it is fucking awesome. I want all of my monitors to have >300 PPI, holy crap text and images look amazing, closest to print I've seen.
 
I still think this problem isn't across the board. Like with the original Engadget review and several others posting here and elsewhere - it does not affect me. I talked to my wife for about an hour last night and held it the "wrong way" intentionally for a full 20 minutes with no issues. She's on a 3GS, too. When I tried it with my land lines at work it was the same thing. Pressing that spot doesn't seem to do anything for me.
I'm thinking that like with the yellow spots - they cranked so many of these out so quickly that some batches are better than others.

That said - I'm still getting a case just because of the way this thing is weighted. It just feels easy to drop.

I'm no Apple guy (I only like the phones) and I think this is a hell of an issue they need to deal with, but I don't think it's a problem for everyone.
 
Got mine today. With a solid death grip in the left hand I lost about 2 bars in a location where signal is poor anyway, but it didn't go any lower than that.
I do agree that the PR has been a bundle of shit. I spent 300 bucks, so if this thing stops working, I am not hesitating to call every day.

Edit: after using this phone for more than 10 minutes, all I can say is "wow". Nice and clear calls, a usable speakerphone, brilliant display, fast as my fucking laptop.
 
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From AI:
The fix is expected to address a issue in iOS 4 related to radio frequency calibration of the baseband. Readers who saw the original forum discussions say that the issue is believed to occur when switching frequencies; because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly, it results in the device reporting "no service" rather than switching to the frequency with the best signal to noise ratio.

iOS 4 introduced some enhancements to how the baseband selects which frequencies to use, so it makes sense that the error may have crept into those changes. Additionally, this explains why iOS 4 has also caused similar problems for iPhone 3GS users.

Additional readers have shared other related experiences that also corroborate the idea that the issue is related to iOS 4's software control of the baseband, including the fact that the issue seems easily reproducible when connecting to a WWAN 3G network but does not appear when connecting to a Microcell 3G. If the problem were simply hardware related issues of the antenna design, it should only affect iPhone 4 units with that new design and should occur at all times, regardless of the tower type. That is not being observed.
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Considering at least one of Apple's baseband engineers is a drunken, forgetful idiot, this doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
 
Anyone else finding that the signal strength issue is greatly reduced/non existent while using headphones? Why would this be? Seems to be the case when using either my Apple In Ear headphones and my Audio Technica AD-700s... haven't tried any others yet. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I can't get it to go below 3 bars while using headphones. Normally I can get it to say "No Service"
 
Because the headphone cord will be used to some degree as an antenna simply by proximity, the same way the signal reception would be affected if you placed your hand, or some metallic item close by. The headphone cord at least from the grounding perspective is a part of the circuit...
 
phide said:
Considering at least one of Apple's baseband engineers is a drunken, forgetful idiot, this doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...

The guy lost the phone. People aren't perfect. He's been mocked enough.

More to the point, it'll be interesting if 4.0.1 fixes the signal reporting issue, but people complain about dropped calls or lost connections anyway. At that point, how would you distinguish between a hardware problem on the iPhone's side and the usual quality of service on AT&T's side? I don't think you can.
 
You could put your finger over the spot that was blocking the signal before and see if it drops the call
 
One would think touching the phone with a fingertip and causing loss of signal/service is hardware... especially when that touch is bridging the antennas. Some degradation happens anywhere along the band(s) but, in that precise spot where it bridges the two bands, wham...
 
darkhunter139 said:
You could put your finger over the spot that was blocking the signal before and see if it drops the call
Click to expand...

The presumption here is that if the signal dropping is just a bug related to visual lag from a frequency change brought on by the presence of the finger. So, no, it's not as simple as that.

What I'm actually getting at is the substance most have missed in the fiasco: when you place your finger on the lower left corner of the iPhone 4 and the signal bars begin to drop, does this actually affect call reception and quality? The widespread presumption is that it does, but beyond one Youtube video, we don't really have a demonstration of cause and effect.

So if 4.0.1 corrects what is purported to be a graphical lag in the signal bar meter rather than an actual, honest-to-goodness drop in reception because your finger is causing mayhem with the antenna, how would you measure the change from 4.0 to 4.0.1 in an honest way? I'm making the assumption here that there are persons and groups who would charge Apple with simply sweeping the problem under the rug if indeed the presence of a finger no longer causes a drop in bar count.

Basically, I'm asking if the people complaining the loudest are simply going to find a new reason to complain upon 4.0.1's release. I can see the screaming headlines now: "Apple disguises hardware problem with software patch!" accompanied by articles claiming that there's still a reception issue even if the bars no longer drop like a rock. Which, you know, would make zero sense, since there would no longer be a way to measure anything of the sort.

This will be mighty interesting.
 
Personally, considering the frequency range the iPhone 4 works in (microwave range), and knowing what microwave energy does when it's not only in close proximity to but also in direct contact with human skin (gets absorbed by it, fairly efficiently), the fact that Apple created 'a rubber band' to keep people from being able to touch the metal antenna band is pretty damned convincing evidence that they've known something is up.

Basic rule of antenna use: you don't touch antennas, especially ones that resonate at microwave frequencies, ever. It's bad karma and has absolutely nothing but negative effects.

There are threads over at MacRumors that I've been watching for days now and there's enough 'evidence' to convince me this is some design flaw that didn't really surface till some "Oh shit it's too late to change now" stage in the development, and they needed a quick fix to address it which is what the "bumper" turned to be able to resolve, at least as long as people buy it and actually put it into use.

It serves no real protective purpose even in spite of some folks claiming it's going to be a shock absorber for falls/impacts where the iPhone 4 makes contact with the surface on the outer edges/corners. I'm not buying it, it's just too convenient to have a case designed primarily to stop people from being able to touch the metal antenna band appear right at the launch, but that's my opinion.

Nobody else is making such a "rubber band" for the iPhone 4 of the hundreds of accessory and case manufacturers... what's that, another coincidence? :)
 
Terpfen said:
The presumption here is that if the signal dropping is just a bug related to visual lag from a frequency change brought on by the presence of the finger. So, no, it's not as simple as that.

What I'm actually getting at is the substance most have missed in the fiasco: when you place your finger on the lower left corner of the iPhone 4 and the signal bars begin to drop, does this actually affect call reception and quality? The widespread presumption is that it does, but beyond one Youtube video, we don't really have a demonstration of cause and effect.

So if 4.0.1 corrects what is purported to be a graphical lag in the signal bar meter rather than an actual, honest-to-goodness drop in reception because your finger is causing mayhem with the antenna, how would you measure the change from 4.0 to 4.0.1 in an honest way? I'm making the assumption here that there are persons and groups who would charge Apple with simply sweeping the problem under the rug if indeed the presence of a finger no longer causes a drop in bar count.

Basically, I'm asking if the people complaining the loudest are simply going to find a new reason to complain upon 4.0.1's release. I can see the screaming headlines now: "Apple disguises hardware problem with software patch!" accompanied by articles claiming that there's still a reception issue even if the bars no longer drop like a rock. Which, you know, would make zero sense, since there would no longer be a way to measure anything of the sort.

This will be mighty interesting.
Click to expand...

There are many videos posted showing "holding the phone wrong" severely impacts web browsing performance. In short, the shit doesn't work when holding the phone wrong. We WILL know if Apple is trying to blow smoke up our butts.
 
KENNYB said:
There are many videos posted showing "holding the phone wrong" severely impacts web browsing performance. In short, the shit doesn't work when holding the phone wrong. We WILL know if Apple is trying to blow smoke up our butts.
Click to expand...

You'd think so, but I've just made three calls this morning holding my iPhone 4 in my left hand. I have the signal bar issue, but the calls went just fine: no drops or interruptions.

It's not as clear cut as a speed test would make it seem.
 
Tried cradling the phone in my left hand again at work this morning. Out here we only have Edge and inside my office I usually get 3 or 4 bars.

After about 15 seconds of the base of my thumb in the bottom left corner, it drops down and finally says "No Service." When I switch my grip, less than 10 seconds later I have 3 bars again.

I just did this three times in a row... I hope there will be a fix.

Maybe also worth noting... when I'm in a 3G area, it doesn't seem to drop as much. For now I'm just trying to be conscious of how I'm holding it. ugh.
 
I've noticed it is easier to lose signal while I have 3G than on Edge - and I have yet to lose signal while on wifi.
 
Terpfen said:
The presumption here is that if the signal dropping is just a bug related to visual lag from a frequency change brought on by the presence of the finger. So, no, it's not as simple as that.

What I'm actually getting at is the substance most have missed in the fiasco: when you place your finger on the lower left corner of the iPhone 4 and the signal bars begin to drop, does this actually affect call reception and quality? The widespread presumption is that it does, but beyond one Youtube video, we don't really have a demonstration of cause and effect.

So if 4.0.1 corrects what is purported to be a graphical lag in the signal bar meter rather than an actual, honest-to-goodness drop in reception because your finger is causing mayhem with the antenna, how would you measure the change from 4.0 to 4.0.1 in an honest way? I'm making the assumption here that there are persons and groups who would charge Apple with simply sweeping the problem under the rug if indeed the presence of a finger no longer causes a drop in bar count.

Basically, I'm asking if the people complaining the loudest are simply going to find a new reason to complain upon 4.0.1's release. I can see the screaming headlines now: "Apple disguises hardware problem with software patch!" accompanied by articles claiming that there's still a reception issue even if the bars no longer drop like a rock. Which, you know, would make zero sense, since there would no longer be a way to measure anything of the sort.

This will be mighty interesting.
Click to expand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oflC4qo8M
 
Even though this issue does not effect me very much (I hold my phone in my right hand) it is starting to really frustrate me that apple has not said anything about the issue yet!
 
But they have:

"There is no reception issue." -- Steve Jobs, by email from his account, which has been verified by header examination. Now as to whether he himself sent the email or had some assistant fire it off, it doesn't matter - he's the Captain of the ship, the CEO, and as such his statements or responses to questions about Apple products make his statements "official Apple releases" for the most part.

And more and more people are reporting issues just as so many others have since this fiasco began. I saw someone name it iPhoneGate a short time ago in a posting... ;)
 
Bahamut said:
Because the headphone cord will be used to some degree as an antenna simply by proximity, the same way the signal reception would be affected if you placed your hand, or some metallic item close by. The headphone cord at least from the grounding perspective is a part of the circuit...
Click to expand...

Well I realize that, but I didn't expect it to have such a significant effect. I can't get the signal to cut out with headphones plugged in at all.

Also, when I have the phone plugged into my car's auxiliary input, and hold the phone by the metal rim, I get a really loud noise through the right channel. I guess that's because everything shares a common ground on the phone.

I hope apple revises the design to have the seem placed somewhere less likely to be touched by the hand (bottom by the dock connector perhaps). While I don't run into the issue often (my natural grip doesn't bridge the antennae) it's still a pretty bad issue to allow past the prototyping stage
 
I like my iPhone 4 but I don't like how Apple allowed this defect to get into the market, I'm quite sure they knew about it before the release.

And now you want me to buy your $30 bumper.
 
I'm waiting on steve jobs to tell me how to correctly place my iPhone in my pocket since everytime I take it out I have "no service"....



....I guess I should have kept the evo...
 
I got the black apple bumper yesterday. And I hate to say it, but it does fix the antenna problem for me at least. I now have full bars and 3G most of the time. And at work now where before it was no bars and on E or no service, no its full bars and 3G. So what ever the problem is the bumper does solve it. Although you shouldn't have to buy a bumper to make your $600 iphone work properly.....shame on you apple!
 
Seems someone over at MacRumors may have made a discovery that could be a potential - note POTENTIAL fix, at least it seems to be for those that are reporting that they've tried it and are having positive results:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=955742

in a nutshell, another forum member made it even more brief:

ryuuzaki said:
I did it. It worked.

For those of you who it didnt work for, follow my step by step and it should be fine.

1. Turn off phone.

2. Remove sim and leave it out for ATLEAST 20 minutes.

3. Pop it back in.

4. Turn on phone.

5. Death grip.

Absolutely no loss of signal or bars. I am shocked. This guy should get paid for his discovery.

Hats off to you friend.
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I offered the info to one friend of mine a few minutes ago and he popped his microSIM out, waited a period of time (few minutes, not 20) and then put it back in, but it's not resolving the issue(s) for him.

I don't own an iPhone 4, probably never will, but there's the info. Many people making this attempted "fix" are now reporting things are working as well as can be expected without the grip/touch issues. If you can do it, and report, perhaps it'll be of use to others...
 
No, remove the microSIM - some people are noting that the way the microSIM card is "sitting" inside the SIM slot could be causing a short someplace, hence removing it and then reseating it has apparently resolved the reception problems for some of the people that have tried it.

Before this "fix" they had reception problems when holding the phone.

Do this "fix" and wham, the phone is working, regardless of how they're gripping it.

The problem could be a short caused by a mis-seated microSIM card or one that's basically just not fitting into the SIM slot 100% perfectly, or at least good enough to function without potentially shorting something, if that's what turns out to be the real issue.

Who knows, it could just turn out to be defective microSIMs...
 
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