iPhone 4 - signal propagation issues because of "the band"?

So far my reception on the new iphone sucks. It is most of the time on E instead of 3g and I have like no bars. Where before in the same area with the 3gs I had perfect signal....not good...
 
MrGuvernment said:
It shouldn't be a problem in the first place though.....take it back and complain so you can get the product you paid for, why bend over and accept it ....
Click to expand...

Take back Windows. Take back the game with a clipping issue. The issue is likely a software issue and will be resolved with firmware update. If it were hardware based those engineers would have already determined the feasibility of the antenna being open like that. I am sure they aren't a bunch of idiots just dreaming up idea's in their back yard garage.
 
This is an interesting read from one week ago, before this became an issue;

Antenna Design Enables Multi-band iPhone 4
http://microwavejournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/antenna-technology-enables-multi-band.html

Antenna technology is really being pushed to its limits with all of the different frequencies they have to accommodate in smart phones. One draw back (which must have been considered in the design) is that touching the antenna body will change it characteristics significantly, so I would be curious how that affected the design. There will also be people who will question the radiation being directly in contact with the skin.


I have read a few posts on other sites too, that the new iPhone4 sends off tremendous amount of radiation, is that true ?
 
Anecdotal evidence from a user on another forum that actually phoned Apple about this is that they're claiming a manufacturing flaw resulted in a protective coating not being applied, or being applied improperly to the metal surface that would presumably isolate the antenna electrically and prevent this issue. Seems plausible to me, since it didn't seem likely Apple could have missed this.

Apparently Apple is also replacing his phone free of charge.
 
Wow that is a MAJOR flaw by that manufacture to have messed that up. I am sure Apple will send them a nice invoice for fixing all these phones. Yikes.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
keenan said:
Anecdotal evidence from a user on another forum that actually phoned Apple about this is that they're claiming a manufacturing flaw resulted in a protective coating not being applied, or being applied improperly to the metal surface that would presumably isolate the antenna electrically and prevent this issue. Seems plausible to me, since it didn't seem likely Apple could have missed this.

Apparently Apple is also replacing his phone free of charge.
Click to expand...

I'd like to have a little bit of supporting evidence and a link to this, because it might be the precursor to a replacement program.
 
I don't mind apple and have owned many Apple products in my life including imacs, ipods, iphones, macbook pros etc...

I like them as secondary machines... I am down to currently only owning a 3GS.

But damn Steve Jobs is a fucking douche bag.
 
Well, damn, I knew this would blow up but that comment by Steve Jobs himself (at least it sure seems legit) is the absolute icing on the cake.

"Just avoid holding it that way."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I'd go on but, I think that pretty much covers it.

Well, not quite as well as the bump case does, apparently... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's Apple for you. "It just works... as long as you don't touch it in that way or you buy a $29 iPhone "condom" that addresses the issue."

Oh. My. GAWD.
 
Here is video of me trying to replicate the issue.....

It does affect the bars...but it does NOT drop the calls for me yet....
 
keenan said:
Anecdotal evidence from a user on another forum that actually phoned Apple about this is that they're claiming a manufacturing flaw resulted in a protective coating not being applied, or being applied improperly to the metal surface that would presumably isolate the antenna electrically and prevent this issue. Seems plausible to me, since it didn't seem likely Apple could have missed this.

Apparently Apple is also replacing his phone free of charge.
Click to expand...

Its funny, I spoke with someone who works for Microsoft in the iPhone line today, and he said the same thing based on conversations he had with an engineer he knows at Apple. Word has been getting around that there is a coating on batches of iPhones that didn't get applied properly or something, hence the problems.

I truly hope that this is the case, because otherwise this is just an asinine design flaw.
 
Last edited:
inotocracy said:
Hrm, pretty shitty response from Steve, IMO.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/
Click to expand...

Yeah, its ridiculous. Apple makes some good products but goddamn they need to STFU or come clean when they fuck up. Yeah, other Android phones and prior iPhones have had similar problems, but this is a much more easily reproduced problem.

It is also a perfect example why CEOs shouldn't email, that is not the way you correspond with customers, haha.
 
And the humor rolls on...

http://iphonehold.tumblr.com/

I wonder if they'll redo all their iPhone 4 media now, the commercials, the demo videos, etc to alter the "Vulcan Death Grip" as one blog writer called it.

I've seen several mentions of that coating the past few hours but, even so, it's not mentioned at all - all Apple focuses on is that it's made of metal/steel/whatever and they're proud of it. If it's some kind of clear coating that potentially can be worn off so, it's actually good this issue is being pointed out right now instead of months later, I suppose.

I'm still waiting for someone to attach a multimeter to the two points in question and take measurements of potential voltage/amperage across that bridged connection... I've seen reports that some folks feel a "tingle" like they're actually getting shocked to some minuscule degree.

Wouldn't that be a serious kick in the pants if true...
 
Yah, I was going to share that antenna article link as well but I disagree with some of his speculation. He's dead on with most of it but some aspects just irk me that someone that's supposedly an "antenna expert" would state.

If this coating thing is the real culprit, well... it's still a design flaw in my opinion. They would have been better off just putting the antenna(s) under the glass where everyone expected them to be placed... direct skin contact (or the potential for it because of a non-coated surface) is just INSTANT FAIL.

Edit:

Check this video out, it contains footage from the WWDC keynote/introduction that of course was totally ripped from the "official" version that people can get at Apple.com:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo

It also contains the infamous "VERIZON!!!" shoutout that's missing from the "official" footage... :)

Disclaimer:

All I was ever witness to was the "official" footage, I swear I've never seen that real raw footage and I just watched it... that's worthy of another Oh. My. GAWD. from me... holy crap.
 
Last edited:
Bahamut said:
Yah, I was going to share that antenna article link as well but I disagree with some of his speculation. He's dead on with most of it but some aspects just irk me that someone that's supposedly an "antenna expert" would state.
Click to expand...

Such as?
 
I don't agree with his opinion that the design of the iPhone 4 is "forced by the FCC" and the others he mentioned, I just don't agree at all. I made note over at MacRumors that perhaps the best antenna design of all for this device would have been to embed the antennas inside the back glass plate, as antennas are embedded in auto glass. Would work just as well if not better even if they chose to use some foil-type embedded element - the main point being that you can't touch an antenna or you're going to totally pooch the properties, the RF absorption, and the propagation all at the same time with totally negative effects.

His comment about the isotropy was interesting but, if people hold the phone exactly as Apple apparently is now saying not to do (based on Jobs' email reply and an apparent "official" word from Apple saying pretty much the same thing), the radio wave propagation is going to be directly into the fingers/palm - the lobes would be firing out from the sides of the plane of the phone.

While this particular design does actually cause the RF energy to fire out perpendicular to the user's head, and could be part of their logic and reasoning for this design change, in the real world it's not nearly as effective as a patch type antenna which has been the prevalent type of cellular phone antenna for many years now. Crack open most any cell phone and you'll find one of those ribbons with the foil-type patch antenna inside mated with some plastic flexible strip.

Personally, if it were up to me to design the antennas, I'd embed the foil-type concentric patches inside the back glass panel and be done with it. Microwave transmissions of these types seems to respond best with a large patch antenna than a single "whip" style of old days.

That writer does note, however, that the isotropy thing would only be effective if the "phone is suspended magically in air" (exact quote) so, put it in someone's hand and all bets are off.

While a number of people are dismissing this as no issue at all simply because they can replicate signal loss to some degree with other phones, as I noted before in another post in this thread I know of no cellular phone on the market today than can lose a signal and service entirely with a touch of a finger as several videos on YouTube and other locations have clearly demonstrated.

Full 5 bar signal (or 4 in some videos) and the phone laying flat on a surface and only one fingertip is applied to that lower left hand seam and wham, the signal decreases, fades, disappears, then service is actually lost completely in some videos.

If a touch of a finger can "kill" the service, how much more proof do people require before they'll break that Cult of Mac programming and step up and admit "Ok, that shit is broken..."

The more I read about this as the day/evening goes on the more I'm lending credence to the potential that yes, there should be and is a coating applied to the metal chassis components that make up the antenna band(s) but only on the outer edges designed to be in direct contact with human skin. I can't find any more proof or evidence so far but, that one ABC TV affiliate report of a guy with a phone exhibiting this issue and returning it and getting another iPhone 4 and testing both right there in the store and his original one lost signal while the "new" one didn't could be the proof that somewhere in the manufacturing chain a ton of these phones simply didn't get that coating.

How else can you explain loss of signal and service with just a fingertip?
 
keenan said:
Anecdotal evidence from a user on another forum that actually phoned Apple about this is that they're claiming a manufacturing flaw resulted in a protective coating not being applied, or being applied improperly to the metal surface that would presumably isolate the antenna electrically and prevent this issue. Seems plausible to me, since it didn't seem likely Apple could have missed this.

Apparently Apple is also replacing his phone free of charge.
Click to expand...

To see if this is the case, can anyone post te first two digits of their serial numbers? They're supposed to indicate which factory your iphone came out of. Mine is "85".

My guess is that it effects all phones currently and that apple plans to revise the design so that the manufacturing process include a coating at some point. Hell, it might even be a clever way to ruin a jailbreak effort (remember how a couple months in, 3GSs had a revised bootrom?). In the mean time, if I'm finding myself constantly dropping calls, I'll apply a thin piece of tape on that spot.
 
TerraPhantm said:
To see if this is the case, can anyone post te first two digits of their serial numbers? They're supposed to indicate which factory your iphone came out of. Mine is "85".

My guess is that it effects all phones currently and that apple plans to revise the design so that the manufacturing process include a coating at some point. Hell, it might even be a clever way to ruin a jailbreak effort (remember how a couple months in, 3GSs had a revised bootrom?). In the mean time, if I'm finding myself constantly dropping calls, I'll apply a thin piece of tape on that spot.
Click to expand...


You might be on to something here! The bars drop on mine depending on how I hold the phone (it's often cradled in my left hand so that I can touch the screen with my right).

The serial number number on mine also starts with "85" !!!
 
I tested this out on mine yesterday and I couldn't get it to drop a call even when holding the phone right on the lines on both sides of the phone. Maybe I'm lucky, but it doesn't seem to be affecting me.
 
Domingo said:
I tested this out on mine yesterday and I couldn't get it to drop a call even when holding the phone right on the lines on both sides of the phone. Maybe I'm lucky, but it doesn't seem to be affecting me.
Click to expand...

Same here.
 
Domingo & Croozer, I'm just curious... what do your serial numbers start with?
 
I was finally able to drop down to 4 bars from 5. No effect on call quality.
 
wags said:
Domingo & Croozer, I'm just curious... what do your serial numbers start with?
Click to expand...

Mine starts with an 880.
My bars go crazy (like everyone's seem to) but I couldn't reproduce any dropped calls after 5-6 tries and I don't have the yellow stuff either.
 
Bahamut said:
I don't agree with his opinion that the design of the iPhone 4 is "forced by the FCC" and the others he mentioned, I just don't agree at all.
Click to expand...

If it has to pass compliance, then yes, it's forced by regulation. I don't think the point is that the FCC is an evil entity, but rather that their tests are flawed and lead to situations like this. Which is perfectly reasonable.

And there definitely appears to be a problem with misapplied or unapplied coating. I'm considering getting my iPhone 4 swapped over the issue.
 
Bahamut said:
I don't agree with his opinion that the design of the iPhone 4 is "forced by the FCC" and the others he mentioned, I just don't agree at all. I made note over at MacRumors that perhaps the best antenna design of all for this device would have been to embed the antennas inside the back glass plate, as antennas are embedded in auto glass. Would work just as well if not better even if they chose to use some foil-type embedded element - the main point being that you can't touch an antenna or you're going to totally pooch the properties, the RF absorption, and the propagation all at the same time with totally negative effects.

His comment about the isotropy was interesting but, if people hold the phone exactly as Apple apparently is now saying not to do (based on Jobs' email reply and an apparent "official" word from Apple saying pretty much the same thing), the radio wave propagation is going to be directly into the fingers/palm - the lobes would be firing out from the sides of the plane of the phone.

While this particular design does actually cause the RF energy to fire out perpendicular to the user's head, and could be part of their logic and reasoning for this design change, in the real world it's not nearly as effective as a patch type antenna which has been the prevalent type of cellular phone antenna for many years now. Crack open most any cell phone and you'll find one of those ribbons with the foil-type patch antenna inside mated with some plastic flexible strip.

Personally, if it were up to me to design the antennas, I'd embed the foil-type concentric patches inside the back glass panel and be done with it. Microwave transmissions of these types seems to respond best with a large patch antenna than a single "whip" style of old days.

That writer does note, however, that the isotropy thing would only be effective if the "phone is suspended magically in air" (exact quote) so, put it in someone's hand and all bets are off.

While a number of people are dismissing this as no issue at all simply because they can replicate signal loss to some degree with other phones, as I noted before in another post in this thread I know of no cellular phone on the market today than can lose a signal and service entirely with a touch of a finger as several videos on YouTube and other locations have clearly demonstrated.

Full 5 bar signal (or 4 in some videos) and the phone laying flat on a surface and only one fingertip is applied to that lower left hand seam and wham, the signal decreases, fades, disappears, then service is actually lost completely in some videos.

If a touch of a finger can "kill" the service, how much more proof do people require before they'll break that Cult of Mac programming and step up and admit "Ok, that shit is broken..."

The more I read about this as the day/evening goes on the more I'm lending credence to the potential that yes, there should be and is a coating applied to the metal chassis components that make up the antenna band(s) but only on the outer edges designed to be in direct contact with human skin. I can't find any more proof or evidence so far but, that one ABC TV affiliate report of a guy with a phone exhibiting this issue and returning it and getting another iPhone 4 and testing both right there in the store and his original one lost signal while the "new" one didn't could be the proof that somewhere in the manufacturing chain a ton of these phones simply didn't get that coating.

How else can you explain loss of signal and service with just a fingertip?
Click to expand...
This makes me think about those rubber "bumper" cases Apple will be making for iPhone 4.

Maybe they'll become a necessity if they prevent you from touching the metal parts of the phone and allow you to keep good reception?
 
Last edited:
The Apple bumper cases aren't too bad. They're thick enough to cover the corners so when you sit it down it's resting on the casing...plus there's something about the way that it's weighted that makes me feel I'm going to end up dropping it.
My local stores sold out of them pretty early in the day. The Apple store still has them for $30'ish but on Amazon they're going for $45 or more.
 
So far the Iphone 4 has been pretty much a joke imo. My phone is fine when I'm not holding it. Full bars and 3g. But when I hold it, no matter how I hold it I lose all my bars and it goes to E or no signal. Places I had a stronger signal with my old 3gs are now no signal areas. And Apple has the gall to say that's the way it is.......they better get this crap fixed and soon....or its bye bye iphone hello verizon and HTC....
 
Looks like iOS 4.0.1 will be out early next week and will fix the software issue Mossberg mentioned in his review, which may or may not be the same thing everyone else is experiencing.

I will say this: if it's a software issue, that would explain why the signal loss can be replicated on a 3GS running iOS 4.0.
 
And going from the fucking incredible to the fucking hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3Ogt2L44Q

My stomach hurts from laughing so hard but, I guess a bit of humor in this is required at this point.

There's a rumor floating around that a firmware update on Monday (iOS 4.01) may address the issue but honestly, unless it's flat out disconnecting the antenna I don't see a working solution offered up that fast unless there was a previous knowledge of such an issue that's been in-place for a very long time now.

Either way, this video gave me a much needed respite from the "why so serious?" air surrounding the issues...
 
Jobs said:
All phones have sensitive areas. Just avoid holding it in this way.
Click to expand...

Imagine if Gates had reacted like this. Fiery spears would be flying in the air right now.
 
So far the Iphone 4 signal loss is pretty much a complete joke. And Apples response is to be expected they always act like this with their products. Next they'll be telling us to buy their brand new IHat for $400 so we can get a better signal and no loss....
 
Bahamut said:
There's a rumor floating around that a firmware update on Monday (iOS 4.01) may address the issue but honestly, unless it's flat out disconnecting the antenna I don't see a working solution offered up that fast unless there was a previous knowledge of such an issue that's been in-place for a very long time now.
Click to expand...

Based on Walt Mossberg's review, they've known about an issue with reporting signal strength and told him they'd fix it. As for why the fix wasn't baked into 4.0 before releasing, probably because of the QA cycle and the hard release date of the 21st.

I think you're reading into something that isn't there.
 
The rumor I commented on was posted a short time ago on MacRumors in the rather huge (2,200 posts and climbing) thread about this issue, and it wasn't referencing Mossberg at all - the person making the post said the info came from the mouth of the Apple Support tech he was speaking with when he called in to complain about the problem with his brand new iPhone 4 he'd just purchased earlier today.

The Mossberg thing is well known and could be related in some way, but this issue with the signal degradation and loss of service that many folks are now experiencing (as this thread attests) doesn't seem to have anything to do with the phone showing a signal or not by the display icon and signal strength indicator.

There's one poster at MacRumors that lives within eye-shot of a cell site tower in his town, and he's claiming that just by touching the spot in the band (the lower left side seam) he'll lose service entirely in under a minute just with a fingertip and no other contact with the metal band. I'd say that's some pretty serious shit going on if it's true, and something is seriously borked with the internals of the iPhone 4.

He commented he put Pandora on - with Wi-Fi off completely - and with a fingertip the phone lost service and the stream died as expected so, that's way beyond just the phone displaying no signal/no service - the service really did degrade and totally die within a minute according to the post.

It just gets worse.
 
Bahamut said:
The rumor I commented on was posted a short time ago on MacRumors in the rather huge (2,200 posts and climbing) thread about this issue, and it wasn't referencing Mossberg at all - the person making the post said the info came from the mouth of the Apple Support tech he was speaking with when he called in to complain about the problem with his brand new iPhone 4 he'd just purchased earlier today.
Click to expand...

The revelation that Apple will be issuing a fix for a bug related to the way the iOS 4 reports signal reception is not a rumor, though. That's exactly what Mossberg wrote would happen. Whether or not it fixes the reception issue caused by placing fingers on the lower left corner of the phone is separate, but 4.0.1 isn't a rumor. It's coming.

The Mossberg thing is well known and could be related in some way, but this issue with the signal degradation and loss of service that many folks are now experiencing (as this thread attests) and honestly doesn't seem to have anything to do with the phone showing a signal or not.
Click to expand...

I would say that a fix for the way the software is reporting the signal it's receiving is indeed related to the issue of whether or not the phone is showing a signal. Whether or not it's actually going to fix the issue is unknown right now, but yes, it's definitely related to the topic at hand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top