IOS17 to allow side loading but only in Europe

[DukenukemX]

Wonder if this means Americans will benefit from this too?

"Apple has claimed that sideloading will "undermine the privacy and security protections" that iPhone users rely on, leaving people vulnerable to malware, scams, data tracking, and other issues. However, Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue if the EU laws are violated."

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/17/app-sideloading-support-coming-ios-17/

 

[GotNoRice]

That would be nice. It's one reason why I don't even consider Apple phones at the moment, because they simply exert too much control over what I can or can't run on the device.

 

[HockeyJon]

That would be nice. It's one reason why I don't even consider Apple phones at the moment, because they simply exert too much control over what I can or can't run on the device.

I can see both sides of that, because while that’s true, Apple also likely doesn’t want to deal with the issues that come with having to manage security on an open platform. For example, I recall when BlackBerry Messenger was available on iOS and Android, I went to download it. I found several options in the Android store, but only one option in the iOS store (I had both an Apple and an Android device at the time). As much as I’m normally a fan of things being open, it has undeniably left Android more open to malicious attacks, and frankly, when it comes to my cellular phone, I don’t care enough to want to deal with that.

 

[idiomatic]

The stores can remain totally secure. Blackberry had a really neat way of side loading apps from your pc.

 

[staknhalo]

 

[Aurelius]

Wonder if this means Americans will benefit from this too?

"Apple has claimed that sideloading will "undermine the privacy and security protections" that iPhone users rely on, leaving people vulnerable to malware, scams, data tracking, and other issues. However, Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue if the EU laws are violated."

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/17/app-sideloading-support-coming-ios-17/

They say Europe, but I won't be surprised if Apple makes this more broadly available either on iOS 17's launch or in subsequent updates. There are legislators in the US and elsewhere pushing for looser app policies. That and I'm sure Apple knows some people will make their phones 'European' if the option is limited to that region.

I still think Apple's best solution would be to require a Developer ID signature for software outside of the App Store. Apple wouldn't vet these apps, but the signature would let it revoke an app's access if it's illegal or spreading malware. You'd have a greater choice of apps, but without Android's Wild West outside of Google Play.

 

[DukenukemX]

They say Europe, but I won't be surprised if Apple makes this more broadly available either on iOS 17's launch or in subsequent updates. There are legislators in the US and elsewhere pushing for looser app policies. That and I'm sure Apple knows some people will make their phones 'European' if the option is limited to that region.

I can see an increase in US iPhones using Europe accounts. Wonder if F-Droid will get ported to iOS now?

I still think Apple's best solution would be to require a Developer ID signature for software outside of the App Store. Apple wouldn't vet these apps, but the signature would let it revoke an app's access if it's illegal or spreading malware. You'd have a greater choice of apps, but without Android's Wild West outside of Google Play.

That wouldn't be side loading then. If Apple has to verify the app before it can installed then nothing will be verified. Emulators? Denied. Proper working FireFox? Denied. YouTube Revenaded? Super Denied.

 

[Verge]

Wonder if this means Americans will benefit from this too?

"Apple has claimed that sideloading will "undermine the privacy and security protections" that iPhone users rely on, leaving people vulnerable to malware, scams, data tracking, and other issues. However, Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue if the EU laws are violated."

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/17/app-sideloading-support-coming-ios-17/

There's no benefit to it.

 

[DukenukemX]

There's no benefit to it.

That's caused you never used a PC.

 

[Verge]

That's caused you never used a PC.

I'm typing on one.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I want my phone to be more like my PC

(Or at least like my PC used to be before everything went unified ecosystem and cloud integration)

I DO NOT want my PC to be more like my phone (but sadly that transformation is all but complete at this point unless you use Linux)

Essentially I want all computers and computer-like devices (like phones and tablets) to behave the way a computer did in 2005.

- No eco system. You install a base OS and  you decide what software you want, mixing and matching as you see fit. No pre installed blobloat, and absolutely no bloat that can't be removed forced on you.

- No cloud integration (unless I intentionally set it up that way)

- No internet account my local machine is tied to.

- No assistant or AI shoved down my throat.

- No user data collection (even if for innocuous purposes)

- No lock INS, no lock outs.

- Guaranteed anonymity

I'll become a single issue voter in a hurry if anyone pursues this platform. Sadly, with all the entrenched interests and lobbyists this may require a violent revolution at this point, and I am getting to the point where I am willing to fight that revolution.

Heads will roll.

 

[Aurelius]

That wouldn't be side loading then. If Apple has to verify the app before it can installed then nothing will be verified. Emulators? Denied. Proper working FireFox? Denied. YouTube Revenaded? Super Denied.

You don't really understand how Developer ID works.

At most, Apple only runs those apps through a security check. They're allowed to have functionality that Apple would forbid in the App Store. The only 'danger' is that Apple could block an app after the fact, but the whole point of Developer ID is to maintain that hands-off approach while offering a layer of security; unless Apple has an urgent need to act, it won't. You could have 'real' Firefox or an unofficial YouTube client without fear; Apple just wouldn't let clearly illegal or malicious apps survive.

 

[EmerilLIVE]

I can't help but think if they go through with this disparity that it will draw unwanted attention from some people in Washington D.C. with enough power to pressure Apple. And I don't even think they would necessarily do it out of the goodness of their heart, as that is unnecessary since it presents a great opportunity to shake down Apple.

 

[DukenukemX]

I'm typing on one.

I doubt you're getting apps at the Microsoft store. The list of apps you can't have through the Apple store is probably one of the many reasons some people don't buy iPhones.

• Emulators aren't allowed on iPhone and that's a lot of gaming you're missing out. Did you know Android even has a working Switch emulator?
• Proper working web browsers because Apple requires them all to use WebKit engine. FireFox on Android can make use of the same addons as my PC.
• You can install a plethora of system wide ad blockers.
• A good File Manager, because god knows iOS sucks at this. To be fair most Android phones come with a bad File Manager as well.
• Fortnite

I DO NOT want my PC to be more like my phone (but sadly that transformation is all but complete at this point unless you use Linux)

You don't really understand how Developer ID works.

At most, Apple only runs those apps through a security check. They're allowed to have functionality that Apple would forbid in the App Store. The only 'danger' is that Apple could block an app after the fact, but the whole point of Developer ID is to maintain that hands-off approach while offering a layer of security; unless Apple has an urgent need to act, it won't. You could have 'real' Firefox or an unofficial YouTube client without fear; Apple just wouldn't let clearly illegal or malicious apps survive.

It does nothing but put money into Apple's pockets. It isn't going to add any level of security, but it does cost a fee to get a Developer ID. I'm also willing to bet that Apple could revoke it if people are digitally signing things that goes against Apple's interests. I wouldn't be shocked if iPhone sales shot up with the introduction of side loading. I doubt Apple will make it easy to do, because it'll eat into their Apple Store sales.

 

[Aurelius]

It does nothing but put money into Apple's pockets. It isn't going to add any level of security, but it does cost a fee to get a Developer ID. I'm also willing to bet that Apple could revoke it if people are digitally signing things that goes against Apple's interests. I wouldn't be shocked if iPhone sales shot up with the introduction of side loading. I doubt Apple will make it easy to do, because it'll eat into their Apple Store sales.

Hate to break it to you, but most people don't care about sideloading. Android leads because there are more manufacturers, covering a range of price points and regions that Apple won't (and occasionally can't) touch. A working class Spaniard buying, say, a Galaxy A14 isn't getting it because they can sideload a GameCube emulator; they're getting it because a $200 phone fits their wages.

If Apple implemented a system like that, it'd probably be very similar to the one that has existed on the Mac for years. Yes, you'd have to pay an annual fee to join the developer program, but you already need to do that if you're going to use Xcode (which isn't mandatory for Apple platform development, but definitely popular)... and it's $99. That could be an obstacle for indies in developing countries, but most who develop for a living won't blink twice.

 

[equinox654]

I would love to be able to side load things on my iOS devices with out having to sign them every week. It is what kept me on android for so long.

I finally switched back to Apple when the iPhone 13 launched. I had ran Samsung flag ship phones for years and it seemed after a year Android always started feeling less responsive.

Also early on Android gave me Linux vibes with the ui. Tons of customization and looked to be going in the right direction. Now that it is mature it seems ugly and janky in my opinion.

Just would really like to be able to install unsanctioned apps, like a torrent client, emulators,Kodi, file browser.

Hell with the hardware in my 14 pro max I should be able to plug it into a dock and have the macOS desktop come up…. Now that would be something.

 

[DukenukemX]

Hate to break it to you, but most people don't care about sideloading. Android leads because there are more manufacturers, covering a range of price points and regions that Apple won't (and occasionally can't) touch. A working class Spaniard buying, say, a Galaxy A14 isn't getting it because they can sideload a GameCube emulator; they're getting it because a $200 phone fits their wages.

Samsung and Apple tend to trade blows on who's selling the most phones. You could make the argument that because most people can't afford an iPhone so they buy Android instead, but there are a lot of cheap iPhones, just not the new ones. On Amazon you can get the iPhone 8 Plus and XR for about $200. Best selling phone on Amazon is iPhone 11 for $288, so cost isn't the issue. Probably isn't just side loading that attracts people to Android. I myself like having an SD card.

If Apple implemented a system like that, it'd probably be very similar to the one that has existed on the Mac for years. Yes, you'd have to pay an annual fee to join the developer program, but you already need to do that if you're going to use Xcode (which isn't mandatory for Apple platform development, but definitely popular)... and it's $99. That could be an obstacle for indies in developing countries, but most who develop for a living won't blink twice.

I don't expect Apple to let this go without a lot of resistance. I expect someone to make a repository system like F-Droid on Android where you can get all your favorite apps without having to deal with the craziness that is Apple's verification.

 

[Aurelius]

Samsung and Apple tend to trade blows on who's selling the most phones. You could make the argument that because most people can't afford an iPhone so they buy Android instead, but there are a lot of cheap iPhones, just not the new ones. On Amazon you can get the iPhone 8 Plus and XR for about $200. Best selling phone on Amazon is iPhone 11 for $288, so cost isn't the issue. Probably isn't just side loading that attracts people to Android. I myself like having an SD card.

Refurbed and discontinued phones don't represent a large slice of the market, though. New devices dominate. So yes, price plays a major role. Besides, it's easy to see that given the plethora of low-cost brands like Poco, Realme and Tecno. And in many cases, even cheaper iPhones aren't an option. My wife is from South Africa, where iPhones have been hard to find in any store and online retailers like Amazon don't even operate. The service networks for Apple in countries like that are poor or non-existent. Even if she could have found an old iPhone, it would have been utterly impractical.

You're still making the frequent assumption that your priorities are shared by everyone else. You like PC gaming, therefore the computer and gaming industries 'must' revolve around gaming PCs; you like sideloaded apps and expandable storage, therefore those 'must' be major reasons Android leads the phone market. The boring reality is that most people just want a device that helps them get by. If it can run a must-have app like WhatsApp, take decent photos and get repaired in a local shop, it's enough. And Apple mainly thrives in those markets where people are affluent enough to get more than the basics, like North America, the UK and Japan.

 

[Verge]

I doubt you're getting apps at the Microsoft store. The list of apps you can't have through the Apple store is probably one of the many reasons some people don't buy iPhones.

• Emulators aren't allowed on iPhone and that's a lot of gaming you're missing out. Did you know Android even has a working Switch emulator?
• Proper working web browsers because Apple requires them all to use WebKit engine. FireFox on Android can make use of the same addons as my PC.
• You can install a plethora of system wide ad blockers.
• A good File Manager, because god knows iOS sucks at this. To be fair most Android phones come with a bad File Manager as well.
• Fortnite

All of which i would much rather not have, especially since there are adequate(and MUCH cheaper) portable alternatives, in order to protect my data, privacy, and mitigate malware.

Not to mention, if you want an emulator, buy a different phone. If Steve Jobs were still alive, he would just pull out of Europe. Watch that rule disappear seconds after the announcement.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Wonder if this means Americans will benefit from this too?

"Apple has claimed that sideloading will "undermine the privacy and security protections" that iPhone users rely on, leaving people vulnerable to malware, scams, data tracking, and other issues. However, Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue if the EU laws are violated."

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/04/17/app-sideloading-support-coming-ios-17/

Just fits into likely places like the UK pushing to weaken encryption to "save the children" BS they keep pushing for, sure some EU countries want the same.. not understanding, either something is encrypted, or it is not, there is no middle ground..,