Inverse: A Highly Versatile Steam-Box Design

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Esplin2966, the solution is the LiHeat. Go with it.

BUT! In the sake of science, and if you have the time... I would love to see SaperPLs theory tested. I am curious to see if an EMI shielded POWERED riser would net better results than your current unpowered riser. The thought being that if it makes a difference, then we could probably convince LiHeat to release a powered version of their product?

Yeah, I think LiHeat is the solution as well. However, a powered 300mm riser cable is like $12, so I'm just gonna order one and test it FOR SCIENCE.
 

iFreilicht

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
1,348
It would also be interesting whether the LiHeat riser can handle a 750Ti that doesn't have a PEG connector because it can draw up to 75W. I would test it, but I don't have a 750Ti on my hands right now :/
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
It would also be interesting whether the LiHeat riser can handle a 750Ti that doesn't have a PEG connector because it can draw up to 75W. I would test it, but I don't have a 750Ti on my hands right now :/

Unfortunately, I don't have an 750Ti either. Perhaps this will be a problem for the next generation to solve...
 

QinX

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
230
It would also be interesting whether the LiHeat riser can handle a 750Ti that doesn't have a PEG connector because it can draw up to 75W. I would test it, but I don't have a 750Ti on my hands right now :/

With a 30AWG wire and around 1A per wire of current you'd get around 0.2V of drop over the cable, that might be within tolerance for the card to take it.

Edit: 3M PCIe cable are 30AWG wire, so I'm assuming LiHeat uses the same gauge.
 

iFreilicht

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,348
Ok I got an answer from LiHeat, they're using 28AWG wires, but only five are used for current, while 3M is using 10 wires at 30AWG, just like you said.

According to them, a single 28AWG wire is rated for only 0.3A of current, so 12V*0.3A*5 = 18W. They compared that to the 3M one, where one wire can carry 0.2A: 12V*0.2A*10 = 24W.

They say it might still work, but the riser is not rated for that sort of electrical load. So right now, the only option is to get a 750Ti that does have a 6pin connector (there are a few).

They do say however (dondan also mentioned this) that they are working on a newer version of their cables which will reduce the width of the ribbon cable assembly from 82mm to 50mm and enhance the maximum rated current. The cable should also become easier to bend (maybe thinner as well) so that's an additional plus.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Ok I got an answer from LiHeat, they're using 28AWG wires, but only five are used for current, while 3M is using 10 wires at 30AWG, just like you said.

According to them, a single 28AWG wire is rated for only 0.3A of current, so 12V*0.3A*5 = 18W. They compared that to the 3M one, where one wire can carry 0.2A: 12V*0.2A*10 = 24W.

They say it might still work, but the riser is not rated for that sort of electrical load. So right now, the only option is to get a 750Ti that does have a 6pin connector (there are a few).

They do say however (dondan also mentioned this) that they are working on a newer version of their cables which will reduce the width of the ribbon cable assembly from 82mm to 50mm and enhance the maximum rated current. The cable should also become easier to bend (maybe thinner as well) so that's an additional plus.

Interesting, I'm looking forward to their new product. In the meantime, my powered, unshielded PCIe riser just shipped, so it'll be a few more days until some SCIENCE.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Is this still happening?

Yeah it is, we've just been a bit busy working on stuff that's not specifically related to the !nverse design, namely things like the crowdfunding video, legal issues with starting a company, etc. The end of the year also dumped a lot of work on our day jobs, but things are lightening up now so expect more frequent updates.

The current status is that we've updated our design based on the first prototype, and our manufacturer is producing the second prototype. I will get the second prototype and do a quick test. If everything looks good, I have a few reviewers lined up to take a look so you guys can get an objective perspective on the case design :)
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
What's poppin.

Still waiting for the second prototype. Found out from our manufacturer last night that they made an error with the tooling, so some parts will have to be redone. Chinese New Year is coming up, and I really hope that they can get it made before then.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215

I JUST got word from our manufacturer an hour ago that they finished the second prototypes. Here are some pictures!

QtLYArf.jpg

fGuEr5d.jpg

SvwbgCv.jpg

0EPxDul.jpg

UhTdk95.jpg


There was a lot of delay with the production of these prototypes. Basically, due to some miscommunication with our manufacturer, they produced the wrong designs and things had to be redone. Coupled with Chinese New Years and one of their engineers taking time off, it resulted in a lot of wasted time. The good news is, the prototypes are made now. All that's left to do is for them to ship it to us!
 

iFreilicht

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
1,348
I like the way the Front Audio is incorporated into the holes. It's not perfect yet, but a very good idea!

What's the changelog from the last prototype to this one?
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
I like the way the Front Audio is incorporated into the holes. It's not perfect yet, but a very good idea!

What's the changelog from the last prototype to this one?

Off the top of my head:

1) Moved the front exhaust holes to the other side.

2) Added PEM nuts around the bottom fan intake holes so that dust filters can be screwed on or attached magnetically.

3) Added 5mm to the width so that it'll fit sapphire tri-X GPU. I'll need to update the dimensions. I don't remember if it's just below or just above 11L now.

4) Made the interior frame a little thinner, since it was plenty strong before.

5) Moved around some cable routing holes in the interior for better cable management.

6) Modified the GPU stabilizer bracket so that zip ties can be used instead. Doing so allows the GPU to be thicker and still fit.

7) Added air cutouts for the SSD/HDD brackets.

8) Modified the GPU attachment L-bracket so that it's removable. This will help lower defects during transportation.

9) Minor changes to hole locations, which types of screws to include, etc.

I think that basically covers everything.
 

blackice85

n00b
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
1
Hi, just wanted to pop in and say that I'm really excited for this case, it's almost exactly what I was looking for. Nearly any other HTPC-esque case I searched for didn't look slim enough, and I wanted something that was more minimalist in design that didn't scream it was a PC. And the fact that I'll be able to place my monitor on top of it gives me a lot more options on placement as well. I really hope these will be ready by the time I'm planning to do my build next year.
 

rfriar1

n00b
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Messages
2
I'm worried though, there's been nothing for five months now. Not sure if this is still worth watching.
 

iFreilicht

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
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esplin is also working on other projects like custom keyboard switches, so I'm not sure whether he is still interested in making the !nverse happen.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Hi everyone, I think it's time we gave you an update.

I know that there hasn't been any news in months, and it's because there hasn't been any news. Our manufacturer basically gave us the runaround, telling us things like "We'll have the prototype ready next week" and "Our engineers are still working on it" over and over again. It took months for them to finally send something over, but a quick unboxing showed that the product was shoddily manufactured. Edges were not rounded, manufacturing tolerances are high, and there were even parts that were manufactured differently from what we specified.

We went back and forth with our manufacturer about these issues, and before we knew it, the summer was over. We had to make an executive decision: do we continue to deal with this or do we find someone new? The latter sounds appealing, but looking for a new manufacturer at this stage may result in design changes from something that we were fairly confident about. After much discussion, we decided that we cannot compromise on the quality of our product, and we do trust our current manufacturer to deliver that.

I do want to be fair to our manufacturer though. If what they eventually told us is true, their company just went through a huge restructuring, and they basically replaced all of their engineers. With all this going on, it makes sense for there to be a lot of delays. It would have been helpful if they told us right away instead of after many months, but I guess they wanted to be "nice".

Looking for a new manufacturer is a lot of work, but we believe that in the end it will be better for you, our customers. We started a new round of requests for quote, and after a down selection process, we narrowed the list down to three manufacturers in Guangdong, China. To try and speed up the selection process, one of our team members have flown out to China to personally meet and evaluate each manufacturer. We should have an update in the next few weeks.

I'm worried though, there's been nothing for five months now. Not sure if this is still worth watching.

We are definitely still working on it. A new manufacturer will set us back slightly, but we will work through it and end up with a case that is better than ever.

esplin is also working on other projects like custom keyboard switches, so I'm not sure whether he is still interested in making the !nverse happen.

The custom keyboard switch is a side project that I picked up because I had a lot more time than I thought this summer (our manufacturer had taken weeks to respond to simple questions). Now that we're looking for a new manufacturer, !nverse will of course take priority.

Hi, just wanted to pop in and say that I'm really excited for this case, it's almost exactly what I was looking for. Nearly any other HTPC-esque case I searched for didn't look slim enough, and I wanted something that was more minimalist in design that didn't scream it was a PC. And the fact that I'll be able to place my monitor on top of it gives me a lot more options on placement as well. I really hope these will be ready by the time I'm planning to do my build next year.

Thank you for the support! We're hurrying along with the manufacturer search.

I need this as much as a video of a cat playing piano!

Chinese™

Thanks for the support :)

=====================================================================

Last but not least, I had the chance this summer to take some nicer pictures of the !nverse prototype. Yes, the manufacturing is rough and some dimensions of the interior frame is off, but this should at least give you a better idea of what to expect of the final product aesthetically.

e4ae4Ko.jpg


taVm1mr.jpg


YJOsAKb.jpg


tcmEmD6.jpg


ULy9Y3X.jpg


9E7oNLB.jpg
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Hey everyone, some big news from me today.

First of all, let me address our search for a new manufacturer. Long story short, we found one, and they're MUCH better than our previous one, albeit a little pricier. During our search, I had two of our team members visit many factories in China, and this one was the most enthusiastic and professional one we found. We have ordered a prototype from them, and they were able to manufacture it without any delay. I received the prototype last week and boy is it a step up from our previous manufacturer. The glass bead-blasted anodized aluminum finish is much finer and more pleasing to the touch, and the dimensional accuracy of every single component is extremely good. I've just gotten the chance to take some nice pictures of the prototype, and will post them on monday.

That being said, people (and manufacturers) change, and we don't want to find ourselves with another unresponsive manufacturer months down the line. To deal with this, I have recruited a great friend of mine who lives 15 minutes from the factory to be our contact in China. He does QC work in his day job and has extensive experience dealing with manufacturers in Shengzhen, and is very trustworthy (I've known him for 20 years and he was one of my best men when I got married). Having him join the team will greatly tighten our communication with our new manufacturer, as well as ensure better QC for manufacturing down the line.

While we searched for a new manufacturer in the past few months, we were also working on our crowdfunding campaign. With our final barrier of manufacturing taken care of, we have now launched our crowdfunding campaign! I don't think I can post the link here, but feel free to PM me for it!
 
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Jspr

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
163
Hey everyone, some big news from me today.

First of all, let me address our search for a new manufacturer. Long story short, we found one, and they're MUCH better than our previous one, albeit a little pricier. During our search, I had two of our team members visit many factories in China, and this one was the most enthusiastic and professional one we found. We have ordered a prototype from them, and they were able to manufacture it without any delay. I received the prototype last week and boy is it a step up from our previous manufacturer. The glass bead-blasted anodized aluminum finish is much finer and more pleasing to the touch, and the dimensional accuracy of every single component is extremely good. I've just gotten the chance to take some nice pictures of the prototype, and will post them on monday.

That being said, people (and manufacturers) change, and we don't want to find ourselves with another unresponsive manufacturer months down the line. To deal with this, I have recruited a great friend of mine who lives 15 minutes from the factory to be our contact in China. He does QC work in his day job and has extensive experience dealing with manufacturers in Shengzhen, and is very trustworthy (I've known him for 20 years and he was one of my best men when I got married). Having him join the team will greatly tighten our communication with our new manufacturer, as well as ensure better QC for manufacturing down the line.

While we searched for a new manufacturer in the past few months, we were also working on our crowdfunding campaign. With our final barrier of manufacturing taken care of, we have now launched our crowdfunding campaign! I don't think I can post the link here, but feel free to PM me for it!
It is more than okay to link to a crowfunding page :)
It is NOT okay to link to own website where you sell them - that is the difference.
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Hey everyone, people have been asking about the possibility of a case stand, so I just want to quickly update with some renders. Please let me know what you think!
oItSqWX.jpg
kzgwXfi.jpg
LaX1VFM.jpg
6djZpLo.jpg
 

esplin2966

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
215
Hey everyone, a quick update from me regarding the case stand. We have finally gotten a quote from our manufacturer and are happy to offer it as a perk on the Indiegogo campaign! Now you can further reduce the footprint of your setup!
 

blaitarch

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Messages
1,120
backed your campaign this evening - really hope its gets funded! i like its look slightly better than the sentry but who am i kidding ill probably purchase both.
 

Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,225
I don't know what that stand is made of, so take this with a lump of sodium chloride, but...will it be able to take the weight of that case fully loaded down (close to a liter or more of water + copper/brass rads and coldplates or several HDDs and a large low-profile heatsink)?
 

danger

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
99
It's not looking good for the funding. Needs some more publicity...

If you don't meet the funding goal, is the case going to be scrapped or can you do a smaller run?
 

danger

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
99
Gaming+Air_Top+Angle.jpg


Is this the most up-to-date rendering? How can you mount any drives to the mobo side next to the psu if there are no mounts? Are there more pics of different test builds that have been done beyond what's on rationalbananas?
 
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Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
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Given that the stand ETA is August, would it be better to join the Customised Early Bird package (which also has an ETA of August) rather than only of the July ETA options so that shipping can be bundled together?
 

andgo

Weaksauce
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
99
Would it be possible to request a case without front IO cutouts or is that impractical?
 
Joined
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The lack of communication is quite off putting. Maybe the Inverse team is spread too thin across too many forums/websites...

No doubt the designers are busy atm, but I feel the lack of personnel available to respond to reasonable questions is not a good sign for those who decide to contribute funds.
 

blaitarch

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,120
I'd be surprised if this project was more than 1 person. There is the ray guy or whatever who is running the jndiegofo campaign, and, in his/their defense, are actually producing updates for the campaign. I've gotten three this week. He hasn't been on this forum for about two weeks

Remember, there's only a negative to us if the campaign is funded? We get our money back otherwise.
 

danger

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
99
I backed it, just like I backed the Sentry, Dancases, and NCASE, but it doesn't look like this one will get funded.

It seems like they didn't do as much testing as they should have. I don't see why they wouldn't have tons of different mounting holes so you can run different configurations of hard drives and fans. This case was interesting to me because I could fit 32TB + fullsize graphics card in 10L if they had the proper mounts and brackets, which I don't think they do based on the renders. I would have liked to run 2*8TB drives with fans blowing over each drive.
 
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blaitarch

[H]ard|Gawd
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Barring a miracle, I too agree they wont get funded. i like the design of this one a little more than the sentry (as i stated) and their ask is significantly less (this might have eroded their ability to even reach their goal, in hindsight for them). 32tb of hard drive was probably not in their projected use case, but yea, given the ease with which i assume they could punch holes in their implementation, yea, they could have more flexible mounting options.
 
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