Internet Tax Proposal Up For Vote This Week

c3141hf

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I'm for the tax. It has been fun while it lasted, but last time I checked teachers actually need salaries to teach our children and roads don't pave themselves.

I like children to be taught and my roads to be paved.

And I want a supercomputer in my living room. It doesn't give me the right to steal money from someone else in order to buy one.

Other people are not your property. They are not your subjects to steal from and otherwise subjugate. Roads and schools are properly and morally funded with usage fees; someone who choses to use a road, for example, would pay through tolls, registration, and other usage fees.
 

ravx25

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but last time I checked teachers actually need salaries to teach our children and roads don't pave themselves.

I like children to be taught and my roads to be paved.

Such a novel idea. Hehe, it's funny you think that's what they would actually do that with the money.

Texas has a driver surcharge program, wherein they like to charge you even more money on top of the fines you get for a ticket locally. The funds are there to help out trauma centers and highways. To date very little goes to trauma centers and little/nothing has been used for highways. Rick Perry, the great TX governor :rolleyes: uses it as a slush fund. One could argue we could use it to prop up the pitiful TX school system that has to teach all the illegal aliens' kids to read and write. This would also be on top of the money we pay hospitals to help cover charged off fees from illegal aliens who use the ER for sniffles and sneezes.

So, yeah, it's funny you think taxes get used wisely.
 

ballistic90

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:rolleyes: You two are assuming EVERY state has sales tax. Here's an extra :rolleyes: for your efforts though.

... You do understand that if your state doesn't have a sales tax, then there wouldn't be any state sales tax calculated to your online purchase, right?
 

ballistic90

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Tell you what..When State and Federal Balance their budgets and they fix serious problems in the tax system that cause me to make less money after taxes than someone who earns 10k a years less than me due to being near a tier. Then you can talk to me about my "legal" obligation to be taxed online. Until then, they can frankly go screw themselves as I am paying the absolute minimum I am forced to pay by itemizing the shit out of my returns and not a penny more.

You don't know how taxes work, do you? I highly recommend you immediately recheck your taxes.

If your income spreads across multiple tiers, then the amounts you make within those tiers are taxed for those tiers. For example, imagine a 2 tier system (20% for income $50,000 and below, 30% for anything higher) and you made $55,000 a year, your first $50,000 would be taxed at 20%, and your next $5,000 would be taxed at 30%. There is no actual way for you to make less money just from the tiered tax system. This is a fallacy people use to exploit your ignorance.
 

stevejg61

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All the board members charge national tax already, no change there. Only place that doesn't charge sales tax is newegg. Online stores will have to do a lot better at lowering there prices if you can get the same at B&M once this goes though.

The reason the stores you mention do collectthe tax is that they have B&M stores in every state and they have to charge the tax already. It is places like Amazon and their affiliats who do not have B&M stores that they are going after. The real reason this is a problem is that it is called a sales tax and not a purchase tax. We got it sold this way. Maybe we should bring up the fact that B&M businesses do not charge sales tax based upon where peopl elive but where they are buying. Cities and counties charge additional taxes, but if you go into a B&M, you pay where the shopping is done, not where you live.
 

stevejg61

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Paying anywhere from 5-10% more for something online plus the shipping and handling is still a lot cheaper than shopping at local brick and mortor stores. At least it would be where I live.

When I mean a lot cheaper a 1TB hdd at newegg is 80-100 bucks. Local Best Buy is near $200. Not sure why anyone really walks in there anymore. They must not have heard about online shopping.

Probably just for businesses that need a thng right this minute and waiting a day or two will cost them more that $100. If you are lucky and live in a place like Phx, you can get same day deleivery on some items for under $7
 

Thuleman

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I would be fine with paying a sales tax on online purchases if the proceeds of the sales tax end up in the state of the purchaser, not in the state of the seller.

Having said that, the state I am in doesn't have state sales tax. But again, I would be fine with it if they did have one.

IMHO they should do away with income tax and do straight sales tax. The more you spend the more you pay. Doesn't get more fair than that imho. Doesn't matter if you earn billions, that money is only worth something if you spend it.
 

stevejg61

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And I want a supercomputer in my living room. It doesn't give me the right to steal money from someone else in order to buy one.

Other people are not your property. They are not your subjects to steal from and otherwise subjugate. Roads and schools are properly and morally funded with usage fees; someone who choses to use a road, for example, would pay through tolls, registration, and other usage fees.

Your argument has one little problem. The tax was called a sales tax - however it is really a purchase tax - you are supposed to pay a tax on what you purchase. They just make it easier to collect by making th ebusinesses do it. I guess we are just really lucky that states do not say - show us all your receipts for the year and then we'll say what you owe us. Can you imagine the headaches we'd have from that. Plus a sales tax is easier for politicians to sell because their donors in affect get taxed at a lower rate than the poor because if you don't buy things you don't get taxed. If your sales tax rate is 10% and you have to spend all you earn, you are effectively taxed at 10%, yet if you make $1M and only spend $100K, in a 10% state, you are really only taxed 1%.
 

smallmj

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I don't see how this is that big a deal. Just tax any online sale at the rate of the buyers jurisdiction. It doesn't seem fair to put physical stores at an artificial disadvantage. They have enough real disadvantages already.

We do it in Canada and it works just fine. We also charge the same rates to imported goods, though that doesn't work as well. The post office charges the fee once in a while, and tacks on a $5 service charge. I don't know how often UPS or FedEx charge them, but I've seen one of them add a $50 brokerage fee to a $200 item. I stopped using couriers for international shipments after that fiasco.
 

Thuleman

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Roads and schools are properly and morally funded with usage fees; someone who choses to use a road, for example, would pay through tolls, registration, and other usage fees.

It only works like that in the Teaparty fantasy world, and even there you could fool yourself into thinking that your taxes only fund the government services you are actually consuming or relying upon.

Meanwhile, back in reality, taxpayers have been the driving force for innovation and technological progress. Many of the things we use ever day would not exist if it weren't for taxpayer funding that went into military (or at times civilian) research the results of which were then made available to the industry.
 

GotNoRice

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Current sales tax on internet items, in areas where it is enforced, are done at the state level.

But all this talk is about a "national" sales tax.

Can I assume that these National and State taxes will stack, rather than take the place of one another?
 

singe_101

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I actually agree they aren't adept enough to really make this work, so I oppose it. But it wouldn't be illegal or cruel.

They could also waive the tax or otherwise negate it for American-made products from domestic or North American raw materials.

A fair bargain would be to lower the rates and ramp up enforcement and other efforts to close the tax gap.

Use taxes exist, bartering and cash income aren't magically tax-exempt, etc.
 

weebling1

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Indeed..Or this is also how to drive businesses overseas losing yet more american jobs..

Businesses are ALREADY paying taxes for thier online purchases and have for years. The states they reside in audit them.

I pay sales tax on 90% of my online purchases now, living in King County. Where I live, the sales tax is retardedly high, though I pay no state income tax.

Bing!
WA is very good at getting what is owe'd her. Hell, we pay tax on our Steam purchases :p
 

Ryun

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I honestly wouldn't mind an internet sales tax. It's been a long time coming if you ask me, especially since you're supposed to pay the use tax even if you purchase something in another state.

But the logistics for some of these companies can be pretty nightmarish, I image. For example, are we just worried about sales tax at the state level or city/county level? In PA we have a state sales tax of 6% but if you buy from a business in Philly you have to pay 8%.

If this goes through and the government wants to make it an easy transition for companies they should post an XML document up online for companies to download that lets them know which states/counties/cities/etc. pay what in sales tax. If your state increases the sales tax, it's up to the state to file an update to the document (if they don't they lose the $$$).

A web service would probably be better, but knowing the government they'd probably screw that up. :p
 

ballistic90

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Current sales tax on internet items, in areas where it is enforced, are done at the state level.

But all this talk is about a "national" sales tax.

Can I assume that these National and State taxes will stack, rather than take the place of one another?

Reminds me of back home. Imagine paying 15% tax on most purchases.
 

Weenis

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We should really get rid of excise taxes as well, complete and utter bullshit. I'm really tired of paying taxes on PURCHASES and having taxes imposed on businesses of only certain types to help fund things at a national level. (firearms excise taxes for example) The fucking wildlife and nature reserves should be funded by EVERYONE, not just those who fucking buy guns (especially because some buy guns and don't even hunt/camp).

How about we start cracking down on subsidies and those who don't fucking pay income tax?
 

Spidey329

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I don't see how this is that big a deal. Just tax any online sale at the rate of the buyers jurisdiction. It doesn't seem fair to put physical stores at an artificial disadvantage. They have enough real disadvantages already.

We do it in Canada and it works just fine. We also charge the same rates to imported goods, though that doesn't work as well. The post office charges the fee once in a while, and tacks on a $5 service charge. I don't know how often UPS or FedEx charge them, but I've seen one of them add a $50 brokerage fee to a $200 item. I stopped using couriers for international shipments after that fiasco.

I've received those brokerage fees before. I don't think I've ever paid them. Never heard a thing. Most of the time they don't have any
 

Wolf-R1

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Indeed..Or this is also how to drive businesses overseas losing yet more american jobs. Internet taxes won't stop me from purchasing online, it will just stop me from purchasing online from companies in the US.

I am completely opposed to paying more taxes while our politicians continue to demonstrate a level of fiscal irresponsibility that is just mind blowing.

QFT
 

cj3waker

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if they implemented this alongside fairtax Id be all for a national sales tax on every purchase a I make
 

mynamehere

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Indeed..Or this is also how to drive businesses overseas losing yet more american jobs. Internet taxes won't stop me from purchasing online, it will just stop me from purchasing online from companies in the US.
Due to their fear of lost revenue due to unpaid sales tax being far greater than their fear of the ever increasing drain on our economy due to rampant illegal immigration, fear of millions of packages illegally crossing the border without tax being paid on them is probably the most likely thing to actually spur the US gov't into diligently guarding our borders. They have the Mexican AND Canadian borders closed off in record time! :rolleyes:
 

/usr/sbin

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If a fat guy can vote himself to get more food - -what motivation would he ever have to get back on track to a healthy lifestyle?


open_heart_surgery.jpg


Don't need much more motivation than that.
 

dr.kevin

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america gives $3 billion to israel every year.

how bout we take some of that shit back and pay for this supposed lost income from lack of internet tax
 

Parmenides

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I think we are ALL for that (at least we'd better be ;)). I'll never understand how we live in a society where garbage men make the same amount as a teacher. :eek:

What I would like to see is our government living within its means and quit taxing the hell out of people because they can't trim the fat / balance a budget.

LOL, it's always "for the kids!" In North Carolina they said, "let's do a lottery and the money will go towards the kids in schools!". So the lottery came about and thus much of the previous previous funds allotted to schools was dropped just as the lottery took over funding schools.
 

timta2

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We should really get rid of excise taxes as well, complete and utter bullshit. I'm really tired of paying taxes on PURCHASES and having taxes imposed on businesses of only certain types to help fund things at a national level. (firearms excise taxes for example) The fucking wildlife and nature reserves should be funded by EVERYONE, not just those who fucking buy guns (especially because some buy guns and don't even hunt/camp).

How about we start cracking down on subsidies and those who don't fucking pay income tax?

I hope you are referring to rich people who don't pay their fair share, or the corporations that are making record profits while paying little to no taxes, and not the poor people who don't pay taxes because they are poor and don't have any money.

Sales taxes, no matter what kind, disproportionately affect poor people since they pay higher percentage of their income to sales taxes than people who are wealthy.
 

jon666

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CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

You are assuming EVERY state has sales tax. Here's an extra for you.

Only third world states like Alaska don't have sales taxes and it's simply because they lack the infrastructure to keep adequate track of citizens so they can actually charge taxes.

lol. sounds like you shoved your floppy disk so far up your computer that you lost touch with reality. Are you a politician?


Posted from Hardforum.com App for Android
 

distortion69

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What does one person's actions have to do with your legal obligation?

What does your response have to do with my post?

We can ask a lot of negligible questions. Clearly my response was an attempt to link his sarcastic attitude with his hypocrisy.
 

dgz

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This is nothing. Here all goods are taxed with 20% VAT on import AND 20% VAT on sale. And this is just the icing...

After all these years I am yet to understand what exactly is government's role in my purchases. Except for taking "their" cut, that is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM
 

faugusztin

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This is nothing. Here all goods are taxed with 20% VAT on import AND 20% VAT on sale. And this is just the icing...

Nope. Value added tax is applied only once. If you are business importing something and selling it, then yes, you pay 20% VAT on import and then the customer pays 20% VAT when he buys your goods, but you can request the 20% you paid back from the state.
 

dgz

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Are you arguing that those 20% VAT on import are not passed to the customer? It's the same bullshit.
 

Jagger100

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Sales taxes are usually implemented in a way that hides the size of the tax. All receipts should show the taxes paid total. Regardless of whether its considered the producer/retailer's burden or not. It all comes out of what the consumer pays when they buy something.
 

faugusztin

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Are you arguing that those 20% VAT on import are not passed to the customer? It's the same bullshit.

VAT is paid only once. Every other step in the business chain before the final customer gets their VAT refunded by the state. By your logic, if we have a chain of importer, European distributor, national distributor, regional distributor, shop and customer and item with price of 100€ before taxes the importer would have to sell the item for 120€m, EU distributor for 144€, national distributor for 172.8€, regional distributor for 207.36€ and shop would sell it to customer for 248.83€. That is without a single cent of profit.

The reality is that the importer pays the import duty (0-4% in most cases) and VAT (20%), but for every item sold to other businesses (not final customers) they can reclaim all 20% of it. The only one who cannot reclaim VAT is the final shop, who charges the customer with the VAT.

20% VAT is paid by the customer. But there is no "20% VAT on import AND 20% VAT on sale". Everyone else except the customer and the final point of sale to that customer gets the VAT they paid back by VAT returns - and the final point of sale doesn't lose a cent either, because all the VAT they must send to the state is being paid by the customer.
 

dgz

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Where did you read me saying VAT gets stacked on top of every transaction, including B2B? I am aware business gets VAT back on every expenditure, not just import. This is why I don't get. Why pay it in the first place?

My understanding of economics is very limited. Also, I am not a very bright person. This is a genuine question.
 

faugusztin

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Where did you read me saying VAT gets stacked on top of every transaction, including B2B? I am aware business gets VAT back on every expenditure, not just import. This is why I don't get. Why pay it in the first place?

1) it is a cheap 3-month loan to the state with zero interest rate (government like this a lot :) ).
2) by paying it on every trade and refunding it later (VAT) instead of paying it only at last step (sales tax) the state can avoid the possibility of tax evasion like you see on mass scale in case of cross-state sales tax.
3) you said "Here all goods are taxed with 20% VAT on import AND 20% VAT on sale.", for uninformed reader (like anyone in a country with sales tax) it sounds like a 40% taxation.
 

c3141hf

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LOL, it's always "for the kids!" In North Carolina they said, "let's do a lottery and the money will go towards the kids in schools!". So the lottery came about and thus much of the previous previous funds allotted to schools was dropped just as the lottery took over funding schools.

And people believed them.

The North Carolina "Education" lottery is nothing but a scam designed to fill the coffers of politicians. It is a very profitable racket because outside of Native American territories, it is the only place where gambling is legal. As such, the state has given itself an exclusive monopoly on gambling and uses violence to shut down anyone else (including, most recently, a war on internet sweepstakes in which they used force to shut down peaceful people who were simply minding their own business and trying to earn a living).

We have no money for roads because the last two governors pocketed the money in the "highway trust fund" for their own personal projects.

No, the state does not need more "tax" money and it certainly doesn't need a damned internet sales "tax". Get rid of taxes, fund the roads through tolls and other usage fees.
 

dgz

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1) it is a cheap 3-month loan to the state with zero interest rate (government like this a lot :) ).
2) by paying it on every trade and refunding it later (VAT) instead of paying it only at last step (sales tax) the state can avoid the possibility of tax evasion like you see on mass scale in case of cross-state sales tax.
3) you said "Here all goods are taxed with 20% VAT on import AND 20% VAT on sale.", for uninformed reader (like anyone in a country with sales tax) it sounds like a 40% taxation.

Yes, I said what you quoted in 3). Though, initial 20% VAT on import is imposed on a lower cost compared to what the end customer is taxed on sale. It is a fraud, certainly not 40% of what the customer pays but a still a fraud and it drives the costs of almost everything up.
 

flatrock

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It's just a hair under 10% in taxifornia, so yes it's worth it. Cananda is just a few extra shipping days anyway, and doesn't require going overseas.

Have you ever bought anything in Canada? There aren't a lot of things that cost less in Canada than they will cost you in the US even after including the state sales taxes.

International shipping also tends to add delays if not expense as well.

I also suggest try browsing for stuff on Amazon.ca. You should be amused to see how small the selection is on the Canadian version of the site.

I'm usually better off buying stuff in Michigan and paying Michigan state taxes, even if I end up having to pay an additional 13% harmonized sales tax when bringing the goods into Ontario.

All that "free" Canadian health care is expensive, the costs just show up in other places.
 
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