Interested in Networking Career

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jrel209

Weaksauce
Joined
May 31, 2008
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Hey guys, had a couple question of people currently or has experience with information technology career field.

I know I want to major in computer science, information technology. I want to be able to take part in projects in integrating schools, small business in going wireless is what I am looking toward to, and then being able to maintain them.

Currently I work at Comcast as a tier 1 agent, basically helping with basic Comcast internet. I don't know how well that is 'considered' help desk exp anyone able to comment on that specifically?

Also, as far as certs go, I don't have any at the moment, it's only now that I finally matured and know what I want to do as a career. It's just the route is what is I am deciding on.

I know I can take classes for CCNA at my community college and then take the necessary exam for the certs. I know I need exp, hopefully my current position at Comcast counts a small bit as helpdesk. But what I don't know is will I also need an actual degree like a B.A. in computer science if I wanted to make myself worth anything in the job market?

Also does anyone have any comments comparing technical schools like (itt tech, devry, university of phoenix) versus taking a traditional route community college for A.S. and going to a University for 4 years for a B.A. in Computer Science. Basically how do those degrees compare in the job market against one another?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, because at the moment I am so torn between the two routes.
 
In my experience with tier 1 help deskers at comcast, they knew a little bit more than the guys that work at best buy.

I'm friends with a bunch of CS majors at various colleges, and unless you're going to a top notch school, it's your work experience that matters most. That means that the most important feature of a college for you is internship/co-op opportunities. So, if you get into a good enough college that has great connections, go for that, but don't waste your time going to classes at a community college without connections, as any self-motivated learner can teach themselves just fine.

If I were you, I'd find a real network admin job and attend school at the same time, like a small computer lab for a school or something. Also, I'd set up a complex home network to play around with, preferably with cisco equipment, but some virtualized clients and a hardware stateful firewall (smoothwall, pfsense, etc) would be a start.

Cisco certs wouldn't hurt, of course.
 
Thank you for you input, couple questions regarding your post though.

Technically to land any of those network admin type jobs, don't you need some form of degree or certs? Also any recommendation on the cisco equipment, cost effective? I know I can buy a cheap router at best buy, but I am assuming it be better to get a router where I can actually get some real network type experience right?
 
In terms of network admin jobs, it isn't necessary to have the degree or certs. Your best bet is to get onto the helpdesk in a company which does network administration or something like that, and then get friendly with the guys on the networking teams.

A degree in my experience doesn't help as much as just knowing the information and having some experience to back it up. My degree is in music technology (recording music, soundscapes, live sound etc), and yet I'm well on my way in this company, in less than 3 years of being here, of becoming one of the people they turn to for networking problems (and this entire company is based around networking)

Get on the Cisco cert track, but don't think you can't get a job without it. A lot of the time it's HR departments which look at the certs, and the actual interviews where people will find out what you can actually do. The best reasons for getting the Cisco certs are about 10% of putting them on your CV, and 90% of how much they teach you about how little you actually know about networking. I'm currently working through my CCNP (BSCI exam tomorrow...), and I still feel like I've barely touched on the possibilities.

I came from a similar background as you, working on Tier 1 broadband faults, and thats how I got to where I am now, I started on the ADSL Helpdesk here, and haven't stayed in one position here for longer than 18 months, just due to outgrowing each position and climbing up. Bear in mind, I had no certs when I started, and its less than 9 months since I passed my CCNA.

Be prepared for a lot of work, be prepared for a lot of learning, but most of all, don't think there's one specific path you have to take to get in.
 
If you really want to be competitive you'll want a 4 year degree and certs, but a degree is less important in my experience, and unless your degree is from MIT no one cares where you went to school. Skill is really what makes you employable. If you are interested in wireless then you can work on that but first you're going to want to get the basics down which means you need to soak up all the information in courses like ICND which teach you the fundamentals.
 
jrel209 said:
I know I want to major in computer science, information technology. I want to be able to take part in projects in integrating schools, small business in going wireless is what I am looking toward to, and then being able to maintain them.
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One area of IT that is staying busy, even in this economy, are IT consulting firms that focus on SMB. There are tons of them around, and we're all very busy. Get your foot in the door there....and start learning and gaining experience and getting to know businesses in your area. IMO, there is no better way.
 
mattjw916 said:
unless your degree is from MIT no one cares where you went to school.
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Not quite, while I agree that certs and experience are important at least some jobs will require you to have a degree. As someone who hires I will say that if your degree is from ITT Tech or some of the other for-profit schools, that's a big red flag for me NOT to hire you- those places are totally worthless. If you want to get a degree go to a technical college or reputable 4-year institution.

Also, for experience- volunteering counts AND looks good on your resume.
 
StarTrek4U said:
If you want to get a degree go to a technical college or reputable 4-year institution.
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Just out of curiosity, do certain schools pull more weight with you?

After doing the college thing, I felt people held my degree to a higher standard, despite my loathing and poking holes in their curriculum the entire time I was a student there.
 
I could also make the same argument that 4 year colleges are worthless since their programs are usually woefully behind the times and it's equally easy to cheat/plagiarize your way through courses between weekend keggers and bong-hits.

Bottom line, being technically competent will be the most valuable asset. People who care about what college so and so went to just end up sounding pompous like Andy from The Office... "When I was at Cornell blah, blah, blah...".
 
mattjw916 said:
I could also make the same argument that 4 year colleges are worthless since their programs are usually woefully behind the times...
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Man, I'll vouch for that. It wasn't until after I graduated I knew how antiquated the hardware we were using was. Granted, it served the purpose, but it could of done a lot more. (Learned on 2514's and 2621's - and this was 2 years ago.)
 
Adam12176 said:
Just out of curiosity, do certain schools pull more weight with you?

After doing the college thing, I felt people held my degree to a higher standard, despite my loathing and poking holes in their curriculum the entire time I was a student there.
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No, unless your college is well known for being one of the best in your field I could care less if you went to the local community college or the flagship school in the state. I realize of course that these institutions aren't current on the technology side of thing but they give you other valuable experience that you might not get otherwise.
 
StarTrek4U said:
Not quite, while I agree that certs and experience are important at least some jobs will require you to have a degree. As someone who hires I will say that if your degree is from ITT Tech or some of the other for-profit schools, that's a big red flag for me NOT to hire you- those places are totally worthless. If you want to get a degree go to a technical college or reputable 4-year institution.

Also, for experience- volunteering counts AND looks good on your resume.
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Thank you so much, that was going to be my next question. I was going to see if there was a way to volunteer and have it count on your resume as experience. Is there a network that is in place for this? If not I'll probably just ask my councelor or CCNA teach next semester.

Also thank you to the rest, the information is really useful and enlightening and making it easier to plan out a career path.
 
Adam12176 said:
Man, I'll vouch for that. It wasn't until after I graduated I knew how antiquated the hardware we were using was. Granted, it served the purpose, but it could of done a lot more. (Learned on 2514's and 2621's - and this was 2 years ago.)
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You don't go to school to learn the tech - you learn the process to troubleshoot, to design, and to understand how the systems work and what they are/were designed to do.

Assuming your school had the lastest and greatest tech - by the time you graduated 4 years later it would already be nearing end of life.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
Here's how it works in my experience:

experience > certs > degree
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+1, couldn't agree more.

StarTrek4U said:
Not quite, while I agree that certs and experience are important at least some jobs will require you to have a degree. As someone who hires I will say that if your degree is from ITT Tech or some of the other for-profit schools, that's a big red flag for me NOT to hire you- those places are totally worthless.
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If that's true you're just super ignorant . You dont hire people from ITT tech becuase you think its worthless? Wow.... I know 4 people AT CISCO that went at ITT Tech, one is a CCIE in voice... How does your company match up bucko? Guess if you saw his resume you would toss it in the trash because he went to ITT tech. :rolleyes:

for the record, I didn't attend ITT tech... though I did attend a school that would be considered a tech school and not a traditional university(though I started out at one). Traditional 4 year universities just DON'T stack up to "hands on" programs being offered by devry or itt tech... these are the facts bud.

StarTrek4U said:
Also, for experience- volunteering counts AND looks good on your resume.
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Looks good, sure.... counts, meh... thats debatable. I would say that graduating from Devry looks better than someone volunteering for IT at their local church... but what do I know?

Malk-a-mite said:
You don't go to school to learn the tech - you learn the process to troubleshoot, to design, and to understand how the systems work and what they are/were designed to do.
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disagree regarding troubleshooting and design, I know guys that were TOP in their class from Stevens, Vtech, Cal tech, and they couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a paperbag nor could they even come CLOSE to engineering solutions. Sure, they can code but thats about it.

OP,

You're going to eventually need a BS so definitely persue that, but don't waste your time at a traditional 4 year school. I can tell you from experience, where you go to school means NOTHING in the network arch/engineering/support field, period. Get the degree, get your certs to get your foot in the door and get as much experience as you can.

You can get your CCNA, that you should be able to do very quickly on your own. Move to your CCNP after this while youre in school and you should be able to score a junior position somewhere.
 
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You have 2 choices...

1. 4 years on the job experience (only way to get this without #2 that I have found is through the military)
2. 4 year or higher degree.

Any job hiring will require 1 or the other for anything above Tier 1 help desk. I have been in this for too long and found out that a AS or AAS is not worth the money I paid for it. Everyone wants a BS or equivalent experience.

As far as where you go to school make sure it's accredited or your wasting your time IF you plan on going further in your schooling.

Once you have either Experience or the degree then certifications help to clench the position.

If you get your BS + any Cisco cert and you'll start off better then I ever did. Any Network position will want experience with Cisco since 99% of companies use Cisco routers/switches in some way or another.
 
Erland said:
You have 2 choices...

1. 4 years on the job experience (only way to get this without #2 that I have found is through the military)
2. 4 year or higher degree.

Any job hiring will require 1 or the other for anything above Tier 1 help desk. I have been in this for too long and found out that a AS or AAS is not worth the money I paid for it. Everyone wants a BS or equivalent experience.

As far as where you go to school make sure it's accredited or your wasting your time IF you plan on going further in your schooling.

Once you have either Experience or the degree then certifications help to clench the position.

If you get your BS + any Cisco cert and you'll start off better then I ever did. Any Network position will want experience with Cisco since 99% of companies use Cisco routers/switches in some way or another.
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For your comment specifically when you say B.S. do you mean from a University, or will a technical school like iTT Tech or University of Phoenix suffice?

Also thanks for the input so far guys, I meet with a counselor tomorrow to help plan my career. Either way I go I want to finish the last couple semesters for my A.S. degree at the least.

Also has anyone got experience from UOP? Their classes seem kind of awkward can you actually learn a whole subject in just 5 classes that are only 4-5 hrs, because that's how I believe their classes are setup when I looked, kind of weird right?
 
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Honestly I don't really think it matters if the Degree (BS+) is from a Uni or a Technical as long as you have a sheet of paper that says you have gone through school for 4 years and graduated.

I'm pretty sure technical is better but, a degree is a degree.

Just look into the reputations of school before going. I live here in Virginia Beach Virginia and anything is better then going to Norfolk State Uni even Community College or a non Credited College since the people who teach there are not exactly the brightest and the course curriculum is bare minimum at best. (Their computer courses consist of working on computer and programs that are from the mid 90's to early 2k's, they have very little that is actually up to date or worth while in the industry unless it's with a company that's stuck in dark ages). However you won't know this unless you stay here and see the type of people that go there and how and what they do when they get out of there. Occasionally you will get a decent person out of there but man that school sucks big time.

You'll end up getting the paper and it will put you above someone without the paper but against another person with a degree from say ODU you would lose out.

So basically it's your choice of a Tech (which I would prefer due to being specialized in technology) or a typical Uni. Either one will work as long as you don't go to a school with a bad reputation for putting out graduates with the bare minimum knowledge.

It's like going to school in the ghetto compared to going to school in the rich neighborhoods. You know which would be picked and why.

Personally and remember this part is just my opinion, but personally I think UOP is a waste of time and is for people trying to get a quick "fix" if you get my drift. It's more like those one's you see on TV like the Mail order degrees. However I only know one person going there and don't have much experience with it so take it as you want.
 
My impression, take what you want from this:

General consensus is that traditional Uni vs. private non-accredited tech school basically means that for whatever reason, you thought it would be a good idea to spend 4 x the money needed to go to a lesser school. I say lesser meaning overall academically, the school is lesser. This is why they are not ABET accredited and will accept anyone with a lot of money.

Let's be realistic. If you had the grades or ambition, you would have just attended a traditional 4yr Uni. This is coming from someone who did zero homework in HS and I had no intentions of ever going to a 4yr University. I dicked around and thought my car and computer mods were cool while I should have been taking AP classes in HS.

Yes, they make you take some useless classes. Yes, it's a pain in the ass and can be difficult. Do you think I really wanted to take higher level math and programming classes? Hell no. I wanted to be learning about relevant, up to date technology like every one of these thread starters! At first I hated the programming classes, thought it was so useless, boring, irrelevant. This is where I missed the point: Undergraduate is all about foundations. Getting a degree from a traditional 4yr usually means you learn very little about current technology and instead are forced to do exercises that help you build a foundation for problem solving skills and such. This is especially true if you want to work in IT but are enrolled in a CS program.

If I had to go back, I would have paid way more attention in high school and thus would have been able to apply myself much more at the 4yr. Really, seriously I would have. In high school I helped build the entire network for the school and maintain it. Because of this, I thought I was hot stuff, scoffed at my actual classes and figured I could breeze my way into an IT career. I probably could have just skipped the 4yr school and done like DeVry or something. If I had, I know I would not have the critical thinking and problem solving skills I have now.

Trust me, if you really want to be good at what you do 20yrs from now...hold yourself to a higher standard and shoot for a CS program at a 4yr Uni. Even if you want to be a "sys admin", you'll thank yourself. Again, I was one of those people who thought it was a time waster, etc. Now I'm 5yrs in the field and looking at starting my graduate courses (comped by my employer, of course).
 
While I don't have the hiring experience a lot of these guys have, I can tell you what I have learned as I am looking for universities. In the sense of quality and reputation of the college, the name itself may not get you a job, but the networking (and I mean this in the social sense) the more prestigious programs are able to offer is HUGE. For instance, Purdue University in Indiana has a CIT B.S. program. When I met with the director of the program, I was told 93% of juniors and seniors in the program that apply get internships directly from Cisco. That doesn't guarantee what you'll be DOING for the company, of course, but I would imagine that regardless of duties performed, an applicant boasting two Cisco summer internships would be pretty darn appealing to an employer providing they meet other basic requirements (those who hire, correct me on this if I'm wrong).
 
StarTrek4U said:
I'm not going to start an argument over this, but what I can say is that anyone wants to spend $40,000+ for an Associates Degree at a non-accredited institution can go right ahead, but you can get a heck of a lot more for you money
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Thats because you have no argument, and ITT tech is accredited.

O2Flow said:
My impression, take what you want from this:

General consensus is that traditional Uni vs. private non-accredited tech school basically means that for whatever reason, you thought it would be a good idea to spend 4 x the money needed to go to a lesser school. I say lesser meaning overall academically, the school is lesser. This is why they are not ABET accredited and will accept anyone with a lot of money.
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No, thats not the general consensus at all. Where are you guys getting your facts? I went to a private tech school... were they accredited?... hell yes...do they have a better name than the tradition 4 year universities? No way... have I demolished other graduates coming from MUCH better schools than me... you bet your ass, and ive done it on 4 separate occasions.


O2Flow said:
Let's be realistic. If you had the grades or ambition, you would have just attended a traditional 4yr Uni. This is coming from someone who did zero homework in HS and I had no intentions of ever going to a 4yr University. I dicked around and thought my car and computer mods were cool while I should have been taking AP classes in HS.
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So now you're saying that people that go to tech schools have less ambition than those that attend 4 year universities? You have it backwards my friend. As I see it, my buddies from tech schools all have reputable jobs in the networking industry and the buddies that went to TOP OF THE FRIGGIN line 4 year universities are in dead end IT jobs or unemployed.



O2Flow said:
Trust me, if you really want to be good at what you do 20yrs from now...hold yourself to a higher standard and shoot for a CS program at a 4yr Uni. Even if you want to be a "sys admin", you'll thank yourself. Again, I was one of those people who thought it was a time waster, etc. Now I'm 5yrs in the field and looking at starting my graduate courses (comped by my employer, of course).
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Trust you? No thank you. Ill trust what my eyes and very fortunate career at this point as proven. with 20 years of experience with either degree.. the deciding factors for a job would be social contacts, not where you attended college.


For all of those considering CS at a 4 year university vs CIT/MIS/IT/Network engineering at a tech school:

Do yourself a favor, dont be a sheep... work your ass off at tech school, work day and night working at a real job or in the lab learning new technologies that others CANT/WONT do at a 4 year college... You will benefit way more than the 4 year university guy either partying or wasting his time slapping keys making towers of hanoii.

Again, I started at a 4 year school....a great 4 year school(NJIT) but I was lucky enough to know a lot of people in the industry to open my eyes....

ITS A PIECE OF PAPER, no one cares where it came from.. they just want to see that you had what it takes to get it.

Kevinzak, totally agree with you about the networking aspect... but most of the interns I have come across were from niche schools around the area(NC a&t and other tech schools around the RTP area).
 
From my experience, and in being immersed with white collar peers, going to universities gives you much more than just your training. You gather so much to carry forth which prepares you for life, widens your horizons, sharpens skills in many areas, living, social, language, writing, etc.

I completely agree...with regards to computers, IT, what you learn from Unis will be substantially behind, technical wise.

But in all other areas which round out your education and life experiences, it's fairly easy to determine up front..those who went to Unis, vs those who did tech schools.

IMO, certainly gives one an edge, to continue your education beyond high school..and seek the upper schooling of colleges/Unis.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
From my experience, and in being immersed with white collar peers, going to universities gives you much more than just your training. You gather so much to carry forth which prepares you for life, widens your horizons, sharpens skills in many areas, living, social, language, writing, etc.

I completely agree...with regards to computers, IT, what you learn from Unis will be substantially behind, technical wise.

But in all other areas which round out your education and life experiences, it's fairly easy to determine up front..those who went to Unis, vs those who did tech schools.

IMO, certainly gives one an edge, to continue your education beyond high school..and seek the upper schooling of colleges/Unis.
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I dont know that I fully agree with you here, but I do agree that a university may add more to your overall life experience than a tech school... assuming that you live with your folks while you attend school and never had a taste of the campus life. As for well rounding your education, I totally disagree.... just because someone learns something hands on at a technical school doesn't mean they lack the theoretical foundation for said technology.

Also, im curious as to know how you can tell the difference between someone who went to a university vs someone that went to a tech school. I work around all types of people... there is NO way I could ever tell if the person went to a university, a tech school or went to school at all.
 
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It's a check box for HR plain and simple unless you're a doctor, attorney, etc. Going to a 4 year traditional university/school seems so cliche anyway. I can't count the number of times when I meet new people they immediately ask where you went to school. I'm finishing my degree and it's pretty much a joke. In hindsight I've always thought I did the right thing by getting experience first and then finishing. It just takes some initiative and a little luck. Unfortunately you're going to have to do alot of the latter first as the job market is still saturated with highly qualified personnel. This means supplimenting school with certifications to make you better than the next guy that just graduated. The last year and a half that I've been finishing it slowly and surely but I wondered if I'd just used that money to provide for my higher certification levels like CCIE. Probably spent less doing it as well.
 
xphil3 said:
.. assuming that you live with your folks while you attend school and never had a taste of the campus life.l.
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ROFL that would counter any progress. Sorry, I'm a fan of "You're 18, get out there on your own". No living under my folks roof once I flew the coop. I lived on campus, at UCONN, in a dorm, back in the years they made Playboys "Top 10 party campus" list.

How can you tell a persons education? Uhm..if that has to be spelled out...well, I don't have enough time or room here. But as a very brief example, spin around to one of the other threads here...when you see words run together without commas or periods, and a complete lack of grasping the differences of "there", "their", and "they're"....just take that example and escalate it into many other areas where one has to deal with people. It's a no-brainer for the educated to pick out the nons.

"just because someone learns something hands on at a technical school doesn't mean they lack the theoretical foundation for said technology. "

I never said they couldn't pickup the foundations of said technology, I was talking on a much..much..broader scale, regarding overall education, all areas of it. Not focusing on a particular subject matter.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
ROFL that would counter any progress. Sorry, I'm a fan of "You're 18, get out there on your own". No living under my folks roof once I flew the coop. I lived on campus, at UCONN, in a dorm, back in the years they made Playboys "Top 10 party campus" list.

How can you tell a persons education? Uhm..if that has to be spelled out...well, I don't have enough time or room here. But as a very brief example, spin around to one of the other threads here...when you see words run together without commas or periods, and a complete lack of grasping the differences of "there", "their", and "they're"....just take that example and escalate it into many other areas where one has to deal with people. It's a no-brainer for the educated to pick out the nons.
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haha, fair enough.... but I honestly don't look at those people that can't grasp basic written/verbal skills and pass them off as tech school graduates, but more so people that probably didn't attend school anywhere or high school kinds that just don't care.

Let me put it into my perspective:

I took 4 english classes(2 creative writing, 2 technical writing)
I took 3 math classes(up to calc 1)
I took 4 or 5 electives(sciences, film, etc, etc)
I took 2 physics classes

The rest was all technical classes, mostly hands on with massive amounts of theory. I didn't have to waste my time taking 4 calc classes that will NEVER BE USED AGAIN!, I didn't need to take 4 physics classes and waste my time with that.

I guess what im trying to say, is that technical colleges shouldn't be confused with "trade schools", they're very very different. With that said, I still very much think that a BS from a technical college will weigh equally with a BS from a 4 year university. Technical school graduates have the advantage when it comes to the interview process, where they are far more prepared. Like many of you, I have also participated in the hiring process and I all I will say is that technical school graduates are far superior than 4 year university graduates out of the gate.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
ROFL that would counter any progress. Sorry, I'm a fan of "You're 18, get out there on your own". No living under my folks roof once I flew the coop. I lived on campus, at UCONN, in a dorm, back in the years they made Playboys "Top 10 party campus" list.

How can you tell a persons education? Uhm..if that has to be spelled out...well, I don't have enough time or room here. But as a very brief example, spin around to one of the other threads here...when you see words run together without commas or periods, and a complete lack of grasping the differences of "there", "their", and "they're"....just take that example and escalate it into many other areas where one has to deal with people. It's a no-brainer for the educated to pick out the nons.

"just because someone learns something hands on at a technical school doesn't mean they lack the theoretical foundation for said technology. "

I never said they couldn't pickup the foundations of said technology, I was talking on a much..much..broader scale, regarding overall education, all areas of it. Not focusing on a particular subject matter.
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Thank God you weren't my parents during that. It was nice to not have to struggle to attempt to make that extra expense during college.

I went to a 2 year college and I look at some of my friends that are looking to accomplish the same thing and I'm already done. To me the only different between a 4 year school and a 2 year school is the fact I don't have to pay for 2 more years of schooling. I got everything I needed to graduate. BS it all around. There was a kid in my all 4 Semesters of CCNA, Passed the classes with flying colors. 3 days after our CCNA 4 final he was certified and is probably along his way to ccnp and above. There are other guys from this same 2 year colleges having their ccna, ccsp, and are working on their ccnp right now.

All this hype about people wanting 4 year degrees blah blah blah has to be the biggest load of bull shit I've ever seen. Don't get caught up on a name, get caught up on what the school can teach you.
 
LOL 02FLow you just described me in H.S. excluding actually setting up the school network. Either way I had no plans to attend a 4yr college out of H.S. I just wanted to make money and party.

Years later though, I finnally matured enought to choose a major; well at least narrow it down to IT. So I thank you all for your feedback in helping me decide a career path. Still got lots of research to do, the two schools I am looking at for tech schools (if I go that route) is iTT and UOP. Only thing I dislike about UOP is the class organization.

Only thing I am sure of is getting the cisco certs.
 
No one has to take the same path as someone else. Certs will help you land the next job. If you want to do a degree, do it. My biggest recommendation on a degree is make sure where ever you go is accredited and their classes and degrees are accepted by other public universities in your state. While someone like ITT may be accredited, I've never seen a state uni accept them on a transfer. Why is that important? While today you may be a hardcore tech and want to live in the data center one day you might actually want to move up and need to get a MBA or something else and you don't want to start over. So choose and spend your money wisely. My undergrad is from Strayer and I'm finishing up my MS in InfoSec at East Carolina right now. I chose Strayer because their programs are accepted by pretty much everyone and many state/fed government agencies send employees there, so it's pretty well received. Choose wisely.

Certs are good. Don't go cert crazy. Choose certs that define what you want to do in your career. Certs without experience to back them up are weaker...but will still help you. Then you can get that experience and not worry about it. If you want to make a lot of money you specialize and go deep in what you want to do. MCSE/CCNA/A+/RHCE won't usually make as much as someone with just a CCIE, because the CCIE probably specializes and goes deeper in to their field.

Degrees are good. They show dedication and the ability to get work done, even when you don't want to do it. Someone with a better skillset will get hired before someone with notably less skillset and a degree. But, assuming both are equal that degree will help you later. Many companies won't give you a manager title (and pay) without a degree. It's a policy they have. That's life. You can bitch, whine, and groan but in many cases your boss won't be able to help you out. I'm a fan of what I did which was get my career going and then go back to school and do my degrees. It's easier now than ever with the great online offerings and it's only getting better with state universities (think in-state tuition) getting in to the act.
 
NetJunkie said:
No one has to take the same path as someone else. Certs will help you land the next job. If you want to do a degree, do it. My biggest recommendation on a degree is make sure where ever you go is accredited and their classes and degrees are accepted by other public universities in your state. While someone like ITT may be accredited, I've never seen a state uni accept them on a transfer. Why is that important? While today you may be a hardcore tech and want to live in the data center one day you might actually want to move up and need to get a MBA or something else and you don't want to start over. So choose and spend your money wisely. My undergrad is from Strayer and I'm finishing up my MS in InfoSec at East Carolina right now. I chose Strayer because their programs are accepted by pretty much everyone and many state/fed government agencies send employees there, so it's pretty well received. Choose wisely.

Certs are good. Don't go cert crazy. Choose certs that define what you want to do in your career. Certs without experience to back them up are weaker...but will still help you. Then you can get that experience and not worry about it. If you want to make a lot of money you specialize and go deep in what you want to do. MCSE/CCNA/A+/RHCE won't usually make as much as someone with just a CCIE, because the CCIE probably specializes and goes deeper in to their field.

Degrees are good. They show dedication and the ability to get work done, even when you don't want to do it. Someone with a better skillset will get hired before someone with notably less skillset and a degree. But, assuming both are equal that degree will help you later. Many companies won't give you a manager title (and pay) without a degree. It's a policy they have. That's life. You can bitch, whine, and groan but in many cases your boss won't be able to help you out. I'm a fan of what I did which was get my career going and then go back to school and do my degrees. It's easier now than ever with the great online offerings and it's only getting better with state universities (think in-state tuition) getting in to the act.
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Nice points about the credits being transferable that is something I was keeping in mind. But I thought at most tech schools the credits were not transferable to UNI's?

Also I took a look at Strayer, unfortunately no campuses even near the west cost lol.
 
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Just figured I would throw in my thoughts, this coming from someone who was a major slacker in High School, and then bounced from one college to a second, a third, and finally settled on a forth and buckled down to work.

From my conversations with employers, a bachelors degree in anything, plus certifications in your field are the way to go. Most employers I have talked to do not care about where the degree is from, or what it is in. If you can show you are competent in your skill set for a job you are applying for (i.e. certifications) and have a Bachelors degree - doesn't matter the major, for the most part - then you'll have no trouble getting a job. A Bachelors for most - again, the ones I have talked to -, is really just a test of, will you buckle down, get your work done, and do things you don't want to do to achieve a goal. It's not really about knowledge.

There are exceptions, of course, colleges that combine certification with a degree. I personally recommend my University, whose courses are deployed completely online. I'm currently about 12 months from finishing my Masters in Information Assurance and Security.

OP, figure out what is best for you, but I recommend getting both your degree and certifications, it will help you out in the long run.

Western Governors University
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
ROFL that would counter any progress. Sorry, I'm a fan of "You're 18, get out there on your own". No living under my folks roof once I flew the coop. I lived on campus, at UCONN, in a dorm, back in the years they made Playboys "Top 10 party campus" list.

How can you tell a persons education? Uhm..if that has to be spelled out...well, I don't have enough time or room here. But as a very brief example, spin around to one of the other threads here...when you see words run together without commas or periods, and a complete lack of grasping the differences of "there", "their", and "they're"....just take that example and escalate it into many other areas where one has to deal with people. It's a no-brainer for the educated to pick out the nons.

"just because someone learns something hands on at a technical school doesn't mean they lack the theoretical foundation for said technology. "

I never said they couldn't pickup the foundations of said technology, I was talking on a much..much..broader scale, regarding overall education, all areas of it. Not focusing on a particular subject matter.
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Although I assume I'm much younger than you, I already know what you mean. By no means did I go to a top 10 school but there is a definitive difference between someone who went the tech school/cert-only route and someone who chose the traditional route.

For the ITT-esque defenders: There's no doubt in my mind that when comparing fresh graduates in the arena of focused technical knowledge, tech schools will win every time. What you all (and I'm generalizing here) miss is there's more to your success than certs and direct knowledge alone. Have fun being the "old guy" going back to school when you decide to switch careers in a decade or two. My whole argument is based around me wanting you to better yourself. If you read my original post, you'll see where I am coming from. Best case scenario would be for you to attend a traditional university while supplementing your education with a lengthy internship.
 
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O2Flow said:
. By no means did I go to a top 10 school but there is a definitive difference between someone who went the tech school/cert-only route and someone who chose the traditional route.
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Do you mind mentioning where you're working right now and what you do, since there's such a difference between tech school grads and traditional school grads. Im willing to bet that many of the tech school grads(BS degrees of course) on THIS FORUM have a better job than the 4 year grads. And don't pull that 20 years down the road crap, where i work... the old timers are lucky to have graduated with an associates degree, but its THEIR names on all the RFC's you read. Go figure.

O2Flow said:
For the ITT-esque defenders: There's no doubt in my mind that when comparing fresh graduates in the arena of focused technical knowledge, tech schools will win every time. What you all (and I'm generalizing here) miss is there's more to your success than certs and direct knowledge alone.
.
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I think what you're missing is that "ITT-esque" schools have a very similar core curriculum as many 4 year universities with the obvious edge of immersed learning. You're absolutely right about ones success, there's more to it than just certs and direct knowledge, but what do you REALLY think weighs more in the Information technology field. Where you went to school or how much experience you have? If you dont answer the latter then I sincerely feel sorry for you.

O2Flow said:
Have fun being the "old guy" going back to school when you decide to switch careers in a decade or two. My whole argument is based around me wanting you to better yourself.
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How would switching careers not effect someone with a similar CS degree from a 4 year university? Formulate your arguments properly my friend. My posts are you open your eyes and the help you see whats really going on in the field around YOU.

Personally, Ill never need to attend school again. With the degree I have, the certifications I have and the time I'm putting in where I'm working, my career is set if I want to stay purely technical. If I want to move into management, I have the contacts and experience at my current employer to take that path as well.

Again, let me reiterate my point:
Where you go to school generally means nothing
What you get out of said school means everything, including the paper
Where you take your career from that point on means more than where you went to school(IE. certifications, experience, etc).

OP, if you're worried about your education after your BS.. simply verify that your school is ABET accredited, this was what I did before I attended my technical college.
 
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You can get a great job with a degree from one of the best schools, worst schools, or no school at all.

Some firms, though, pre-screen based on your education/school's reputation. In the mind of a recruiter, "I've recruited a bunch of bright individuals from school X and Y, I'm going back to get more.."
 
I have a BS degree in Computer Engineering
More Cisco Certs than a wall can hold,
Just passed CCIE Voice Written, and taking the lab in 2 months

Ive had to fight off job offers since graduating, Experience is the key.
No school can prepare you even 30% of the way for what you need in the real world.
 
Tacman said:
I have a BS degree in Computer Engineering
More Cisco Certs than a wall can hold,
Just passed CCIE Voice Written, and taking the lab in 2 months

Ive had to fight off job offers since graduating, Experience is the key.
No school can prepare you even 30% of the way for what you need in the real world.
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Totally agree, Im in the SAME boat and have a BS from a tech college! Good luck on your lab, I took the R&S twice already... test is bullshit but for reasons I wont/cant go into ;)

Malk-a-mite said:
I'm not sure you want to make that bet.
:)
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Actually, I am. I would bet a lot of dollhairs.
 
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