Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)

[TaintedSquirrel]

It's harder to make excuses for Skylake-X since it's so much more expensive.
Coffee Lake is probably going to beat the entire line-up in gaming, while also costing less, so at that point it will be similar to comparing gaming vs workstation GPUs. But for now, Skylake-X is all we have at 6C and above.

 

[capnstabn]

Double standards. When RyZen 1800X was 20--25% behind Broadwell-E or Kabylake on games, the excuse was that it was "mostly a workstation CPU that also played games". Now that SKL-X beats RyZen on workstation applications and is only 8% behind Kabylake on games, the same people claims that SKL-X is a fail. No one of them claim that SKL-X is a workstation CPU that also play games better than RyZen.

Ryzen was meant to compete with Kaby not SKL-X. I am in the market to buy and SKL-X is the least appealing. The x299 mobos are ridiculously priced and the i9s are so mediocre at the price point. If there is no Coffee Lake announcement before August 10th I will probably just buy a 1950x. And I haven't used an AMD CPU in like 10 years.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

If there is no Coffee Lake announcement before August 10th I will probably just buy a 1950x.

$350 6C Coffee Lake vs $1000 16C ThreadRipper?

 

[capnstabn]

$350 6C Coffee Lake vs $1000 16C ThreadRipper?

Ya sounds strange but I am rationalizing the build somewhat on value. A 6C that can OC to 5ghz+ would be perfect. If I am having to bump up to HEDT or whatever the hell AMD calls it, Threadripper seems to be the best value for the dollar.

 

[SomeGuy133]

It's harder to make excuses for Skylake-X since it's so much more expensive.
Coffee Lake is probably going to beat the entire line-up in gaming, while also costing less, so at that point it will be similar to comparing gaming vs workstation GPUs. But for now, Skylake-X is all we have at 6C and above.

thats because of design changes. And intels mesh is a much better design than AMDs in overall. Intels CPUs are still basically one giant CPU when AMDs is a bunch of CPUs slapped together. AMDs is more economical and scalable for sure but it comes at a price in performance.

I personally am glad both have 2 totally different designs. We win as consumers by having more varieties of options for our needs. People who are willing to pay every penny for the best performance for heavy threaded tasks go for intel. People who only need single thread and need the best performance go for intel. People who want a powerful workstation/server chip and are on a budget go for AMD. People who want a little of everything but good at nothing but is affordable go for AMD.

Though Coffee lake is really going to murder AMDs 8 cores. I really see 0 reason to buy them after 8700K comes out.

If i get the money I would love to dump my 1650v3 and switch to a 16 core threadripper and switch to a binned 8700K but I doubt I can do it. If anything the 8700K if more important.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

If the 8700K ever gets released. Really though the motherboard situation is the most annoying part since nobody seems to know wtf is right and what is wrong. Also we are moving onto motherboard rebrands now?

 

[capnstabn]

thats because of design changes. And intels mesh is a much better design than AMDs in overall. Intels CPUs are still basically one giant CPU when AMDs is a bunch of CPUs slapped together. AMDs is more economical and scalable for sure but it comes at a price in performance.

I personally am glad both have 2 totally different designs. We win as consumers by having more varieties of options for our needs. People who are willing to pay every penny for the best performance for heavy threaded tasks go for intel. People who only need single thread and need the best performance go for intel. People who want a powerful workstation/server chip and are on a budget go for AMD. People who want a little of everything but good at nothing but is affordable go for AMD.

Though Coffee lake is really going to murder AMDs 8 cores. I really see 0 reason to buy them after 8700K comes out.

If i get the money I would love to dump my 1650v3 and switch to a 16 core threadripper and switch to a binned 8700K but I doubt I can do it. If anything the 8700K if more important.

I think you are right about Coffee Lake murdering the 1800x. I would just rather have TR than Intel's HEDT offering. Either way AMD finally coming to the table on the middle/high end is going to drive better products/prices.

 

[AbRASiON]

uninformed drone

So your posts about a delay is unfounded so far.

I never made it up, it's not on me, it's someone elses quote. From board manufacturers who stated, the boards are delayed till Q4. It's not hard to find, it's come up at least twice in the past 3 weeks. I don't know if it's true, it's simply what was posted.
Don't get snarky with me wallies

 

[juanrga]

Ryzen was meant to compete with Kaby not SKL-X.

I remember AMD demos and slides comparing RyZen to Broadwell-E... 8-core RyZen vs 8-core Broadwell... and SKL-X is the replacement for Broadwell-E. What happens is that SKL-X got AMD with pants down and had to release ThreadRipper in a last minute change, and still AMD slides AMD are comparing 16-core Threadripper to 10-core SKL-X.

Now Coffee Lake will fill the mainstream market and will kill RyZen, which is already moribund.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

I remember AMD demos and slides comparing RyZen to Broadwell-E... 8-core RyZen vs 8-core Broadwell... and SKL-X is the replacement for Broadwell-E. What happens is that SKL-X got AMD with pants down and had to release ThreadRipper in a last minute change, and still AMD slides AMD are comparing 16-core Threadripper to 10-core SKL-X.

Now Coffee Lake will fill the mainstream market and will kill RyZen, which is already moribund.

Whut? SKL-X is pretty much shit in terms of release. Threadripper was announced before SKL-X IIRC and Intel is the one caught with their pants down and quickly throwing an 18 core in their lineup.

 

[AbRASiON]

I remember AMD demos and slides comparing RyZen to Broadwell-E... 8-core RyZen vs 8-core Broadwell... and SKL-X is the replacement for Broadwell-E. What happens is that SKL-X got AMD with pants down and had to release ThreadRipper in a last minute change, and still AMD slides AMD are comparing 16-core Threadripper to 10-core SKL-X.

Now Coffee Lake will fill the mainstream market and will kill RyZen, which is already moribund.

I dunno about killing Ryzen, there's always die hard fans - but I suspect if Coffee Lake is as good as we hope, it's going to put a dent in their sales for sure.
If every Ryzen chip was about $50 less, I would absoloutely have to get one, it's just too cheap to ignore, but the fact I need to buy a video card really puts me off.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

I remember AMD demos and slides comparing RyZen to Broadwell-E... 8-core RyZen vs 8-core Broadwell... and SKL-X is the replacement for Broadwell-E. What happens is that SKL-X got AMD with pants down and had to release ThreadRipper in a last minute change, and still AMD slides AMD are comparing 16-core Threadripper to 10-core SKL-X.

Now Coffee Lake will fill the mainstream market and will kill RyZen, which is already moribund.

These days 8C Ryzen is sub-$300, 6C is sub-$200, I think it'll be fine next to Coffee lake.

 

[juanrga]

Whut? SKL-X is pretty much shit in terms of release. Threadripper was announced before SKL-X IIRC and Intel is the one caught with their pants down and quickly throwing an 18 core in their lineup.

Pardon? ~8% behind the best gaming CPU on games, beating Ryzen on workstaiton workloads, and destroying RyZen when AVX512 is used is not enough for you? I agree the launch was rushed, but that is all.

AMD original plan was to use RyZen for HEDT. That is why AMD continuously compared RyZen with Broadwell-E. People seems to forget that one. AMD did expect RyZen to age well, even after SKL-X launch, which FYI was known since before RyZen launch. Then projected SKL-X performance put AMD in pain and they decided to launch ThreadRipper to compete with moar cores... If you check AMD slides, the best scenario that they could find is one where 16-core Zen is 24% faster than 10-core SKL-X: 60% moar cores only for 24% more performance in a cherry picked bench.

Intel also updated the plans after AMD updated theirs and that is why we are getting the new SKL-X models up to 18-core. At this point it is more a question about image and having the flagship model than about real sales.

 

[juanrga]

I dunno about killing Ryzen, there's always die hard fans - but I suspect if Coffee Lake is as good as we hope, it's going to put a dent in their sales for sure.
If every Ryzen chip was about $50 less, I would absoloutely have to get one, it's just too cheap to ignore, but the fact I need to buy a video card really puts me off.

By killing I don't mean zero sales. Even Bulldozer got some sales! I mean that despite all the hype in forums and media, Passmark gives less than 5% marketshare gain for AMD after RyZen launch, and last financial numbers from AMD show that RyZen sales didn't help the company. Kabylake continues being bestsellers on Amazon. Coffee Lake will only do better.

 

[AbRASiON]

So your posts about a delay is unfounded so far.

http://digiworthy.com/2017/07/04/intel-coffee-lake-z370-motherboards-q4/

Do some googling .... There's several articles on this.

 

[AbRASiON]

By killing I don't mean zero sales. Even Bulldozer got some sales! I mean that despite all the hype in forums and media, Passmark gives less than 5% marketshare gain for AMD after RyZen launch, and last financial numbers from AMD show that RyZen sales didn't help the company. Kabylake continues being bestsellers on Amazon. Coffee Lake will only do better.

Honestly, I want them around for the competition, but as it stands, ryzen as a product doesn't suit my needs at all, sadly.

I can see some use if you're a gamer on a tight budget I guess.

 

[kirbyrj]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11687/coffee-lake-not-supported-by-intels-200series-motherboards

Better hope there's no delay in the Z370 boards. Intel is money grabbing if you want 6 cores and already have Z170/Z270.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11687/coffee-lake-not-supported-by-intels-200series-motherboards

Better hope there's no delay in the Z370 boards. Intel is money grabbing if you want 6 cores and already have Z170/Z270.

Until Intel says it, I wouldn't take it as gospel.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11687/coffee-lake-not-supported-by-intels-200series-motherboards

Better hope there's no delay in the Z370 boards. Intel is money grabbing if you want 6 cores and already have Z170/Z270.

There's also the small, miniscule possibility the CPU isn't compatible with old sockets at the hardware level. Sure maybe it was lazy or intentional, after what happened with X299 I won't be surprised by anything.

Intel is going to have a team of financial analysts trying to decide if they will gain more sales than they lose to Ryzen by requiring a new chipset.

 

[Raendor]

Well, this seemed unlikely from the beginning. Hope this will bite intel.

 

[-Sweeper_]

Rumor: Intel's next-generation Coffee Lake Core i3-8300 packs 4C/8T at 4 GHz

http://bbs.ngacn.cc/read.php?tid=12156869&page=3

Double the amount of cores/threads of the current Core i3 lineup if true (at least higher end models). That's Core i7-6700K level performance, way better than I expected.


Edit: Grain of salt required, could be fake

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

i3 with 4C/8T, that was.... unexpected... gotta thank AMD for the competition I suppose. Personally I did predict 4C/4T across all i3 SKUs.

PS, I wonder if that Intel "support" number is working. Could do with a sample myself *grin*

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Holy shit I predicted something right.
Was just having a debate about this on Reddit.

 

[Immolation1991]

wtf, if there will be a k version, I better sell my 6700k asap.

 

[Shintai]

There's also the small, miniscule possibility the CPU isn't compatible with old sockets at the hardware level. Sure maybe it was lazy or intentional, after what happened with X299 I won't be surprised by anything.

Intel is going to have a team of financial analysts trying to decide if they will gain more sales than they lose to Ryzen by requiring a new chipset.

The OEMs/Mobo makers are in control. Same reason why AMD and Nvidia releases OEM rebrands of the same cards and we get CPU line refreshes from AMD and Intel. They want something with new numbers.

If CFL doesn't work on 100/200 series its only prevented by firmware/BIOS and nothing else.

And dont tell me they lose anything to Ryzen, people upgrading CPU on the same board are counted in decimal percentage. Its a nice option to have, but its like having the ability to run SLI/CF and doing it as well. people simply dont use it.

 

[Shintai]

i3 with 4C/8T, that was.... unexpected... gotta thank AMD for the competition I suppose. Personally I did predict 4C/4T across all i3 SKUs.

PS, I wonder if that Intel "support" number is working. Could do with a sample myself *grin*

These products was planned ages ago and it all began when the Pentium got HT. The option for i3 x3xx series to have HT was always there. The i3 x1xx seems to be the 4/4.

If it was a response to AMD it was done so ~2 years ago when chips and SKUs got planned.

 

[Shintai]

http://bbs.pceva.com.cn/thread-140322-1-1.html

 

[juanrga]

These products was planned ages ago and it all began when the Pentium got HT. The option for i3 x3xx series to have HT was always there. The i3 x1xx seems to be the 4/4.

If it was a response to AMD it was done so ~2 years ago when chips and SKUs got planned.

I guess guys at Intel labs built a time machine, see Ryen performance and did travel backward to prepare six-core i5/i7 and quad-core i3. The funny part is that some of us were traveling as well. Because I recall discussing six-core mainstream i7 back then in forums.

 

[Shintai]

And the Q4 delay debunked again.

 

[Dayman]

They show z270 and z370 coexisting. But who's gonna buy Kaby lake when CFL is out? Backwards compatibility still on the table?

 

[-Sweeper_]

Will be interesting to see how AMD plans to react to this, the quad-core Coffee Lake is only 126mm² and that's with an iGPU, much smaller than the disabled Summit Ridge parts they sell as Ryzen 3 (Raven Ridge should be larger as well). Intel is not messing around with this lineup, extremely competitive products at each price point.

- 4C/8T Core i3-8300 would basically bring Core i7-6700K performance to the ~$160 price range, and we know that this chip can still beat much more expensive Zen-based CPU in most CPU-bound games, especially if you're into high refresh gaming
- 6C/6T Core i5-8400 lacks HT but operates at 3.8-4.0 GHz Turbo out of the box, that coupled with Skylake core's IPC advantage will put it ahead of Ryzen 5 1600 in games and many applications, possibly at a lower price
- 6C/6T Core i5-8600K could become the gamer's favorite if >5 GHz OCs are in the cards - it will provide additional MT performance compared to Core i7-7700K to handle those insane BF1 64-player sessions and gaming while streaming, and it should cost at least $100 less than Core i7-8700K, enough to go from Vega 64 / GTX 1080 to GTX 1080 Ti
- 6C/12T Core i7-8700K will take the performance per core crown from Core i7-7700K and provide nearly 50% additional throughpout out of the box - if the 14nm++ process is really good we might see > 5 GHz with non-exotic cooling - which will make it an absolute powerhouse - probably enough to last quite a few years like the venerable Core i7-2600K

 

[akiba]

Will be interesting to see how AMD plans to react to this, the quad-core Coffee Lake is only 126mm² and that's with an iGPU, much smaller than the disabled Summit Ridge parts they sell as Ryzen 3 (Raven Ridge should be larger as well). Intel is not messing around with this lineup, extremely competitive products at each price point.

- 4C/8T Core i3-8300 would basically bring Core i7-6700K performance to the ~$160 price range, and we know that this chip can still beat much more expensive Zen-based CPU in most CPU-bound games, especially if you're into high refresh gaming
- 6C/6T Core i5-8400 lacks HT but operates at 3.8-4.0 GHz Turbo out of the box, that coupled with Skylake core's IPC advantage will put it ahead of Ryzen 5 1600 in games and many applications, possibly at a lower price
- 6C/6T Core i5-8600K could become the gamer's favorite if >5 GHz OCs are in the cards - it will provide additional MT performance compared to Core i7-7700K to handle those insane BF1 64-player sessions and gaming while streaming, and it should cost at least $100 less than Core i7-8700K, enough to go from Vega 64 / GTX 1080 to GTX 1080 Ti
- 6C/12T Core i7-8700K will take the performance per core crown from Core i7-7700K and provide nearly 50% additional throughpout out of the box - if the 14nm++ process is really good we might see > 5 GHz with non-exotic cooling - which will make it an absolute powerhouse - probably enough to last quite a few years like the venerable Core i7-2600K

Does the Z370 chipset support Icelake?

 

[juanrga]

They show z270 and z370 coexisting. But who's gonna buy Kaby lake when CFL is out? Backwards compatibility still on the table?

I guess KBL will be offered at lower pricing during the coexistence period, and then fully replaced.

 

[Shintai]

Does the Z370 chipset support Icelake?

If the motherboard uses IMVP9 VRM spec it can unless limited by other means. Else no.

CFL is the middle ground that supports both 8 and 9. 8 you got SKL and KBL, 9 you got ICL and TGL (And CNL, but its mobile only).

Its no different than the past when the same socket have been used over prolonged time. AM3 for example.

But if I was you, I would expect ICL and TGL on new boards. Mobo makers like to sell new boards. They dont like you keep the board.

The DIY segment keeps shrinking, specially as gaming laptops is now the majority of sales. Expect DIY components to replaced faster than usual from all vendors in the future.

 

[Raendor]

If the motherboard uses IMVP9 VRM spec it can unless limited by other means. Else no.

CFL is the middle ground that supports both 8 and 9. 8 you got SKL and KBL, 9 you got ICL and TGL (And CNL, but its mobile only).

Its no different than the past when the same socket have been used over prolonged time. AM3 for example.

But if I was you, I would expect ICL and TGL on new boards. Mobo makers like to sell new boards. They dont like you keep the board.

The DIY segment keeps shrinking, specially as gaming laptops is now the majority of sales. Expect DIY components to replaced faster than usual from all vendors in the future.

Coffee Lake starts looking more like a stopgap. I wonder if there will be any difference in gaming over my 6700k at all, especially at 1440p. If not - will happily skip that nonsense.

 

[Brahmzy]

Every CPU / System you buy and build is a stopgap.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Every CPU / System you buy and build is a stopgap.

If you buy intel. But on a serious note intel seems to be going full money grab these days. Hopefully with ryzen being competitive they'll realize brand loyalty will only go so far before people get sick of overpaying..

 

[Shintai]

If you buy intel. But on a serious note intel seems to be going full money grab these days. Hopefully with ryzen being competitive they'll realize brand loyalty will only go so far before people get sick of overpaying..

How many sockets and incompatibilities did AMD go through the last few years? Quite a few. The big money for a change of compatibility isn't in the hands of Intel or AMD. Its in the hands of mobo makers and OEMs. Assuming there isn't electrical reasons for it. Same reason you got so many rebranded graphics cards. Where did FM1, FM2, FM2+ upgrade to? Nowhere. AMD wont even talk about future VRM specs for newer Zen models. yet we know the VRM spec of TGL.

Its only the tiny DIY market that even consider same socket upgrades. And they are a niche within a niche. And with the mobile gaming massive growth, certain mobo makers are in big trouble because they missed the wave.

 

[juanrga]

If you buy intel. But on a serious note intel seems to be going full money grab these days. Hopefully with ryzen being competitive they'll realize brand loyalty will only go so far before people get sick of overpaying..

Most people pay for stability, performance, efficiency,... only a minority pay for "brand loyalty".

Why don't ask about "overpaying" to all those users whose RyZen builds have frequent hard crashes. Ask them about which has been their experience with AMD support, and how AMD initially ignored the open tickets during months, but is now finally admitting the existence of a problem and sending emails to customers suggesting they to RMA the CPU. You could start asking to users as the one that I quote below if they "get sick of overpaying":

I would like to write it again, but this problem has not been answered, and regardless of the OS (even on Windows) Access Violation will occur.

AMD deceives ordinary users and continues to sell B1 stepping Ryzen.

Users who own Ryzen and have segmentation faults are highly disappointed with the actions of AMD.

Do you think that users who purchase Ryzen are only game users?

Some users are purchasing to investigate the performance in order to adopt it as the company's virtual infrastructure. (Zen Arch / EPYC)

The attitude not to announce AMD 's Revision Guide is thought to be to keep stock prices and current momentum from dropping. The act of deceiving the user betrays the trust of the system administrator, and will not introduce the product to the backbone.

It will not be introduced into the enterprise market where AMD wants to enter again.

AMD, please think carefully and give an answer.

 

[Armenius]

Ryzen was meant to compete with Kaby not SKL-X. I am in the market to buy and SKL-X is the least appealing. The x299 mobos are ridiculously priced and the i9s are so mediocre at the price point. If there is no Coffee Lake announcement before August 10th I will probably just buy a 1950x. And I haven't used an AMD CPU in like 10 years.

That's hilarious. Have you seen the prices on X399 boards yet? They're just as expensive as X299 boards.