Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)

Where do you expect Core i7-8700K's Turbo to land?

  • 3.8/3.9 GHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.0/4.1 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.2/4.3 GHz

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • 4.4/4.5 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.6/4.7 GHz

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Skyblue

Limp Gawd
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It wouldn't surprise me. Their top mainstream CPU has been 350 give or take for awhile now. It would also have the side benefit of stepping on the throat of Ryzen's relevance, which I imagine Intel doesn't mind doing.
Personally, I don't care if its 350 or 700. I just want a fast multicore cpu, no bullshit 2 year old architecture.
 

AbRASiON

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It wouldn't surprise me. Their top mainstream CPU has been 350 give or take for awhile now. It would also have the side benefit of stepping on the throat of Ryzen's relevance, which I imagine Intel doesn't mind doing.

1151 Now:
7600k = $240 US
7700 = $314 US
7700k = $350 US

1151 Theoretical???
8600k (4/8) = $240 US
8650k (6/6) = $260 US (?? shrug)*
8700 (6/12) = $330 US
8800k (6/12)= $380 US


The "new" 4/8 is "only" $240 US vs $350 US now.
The high end 6/12s, one of them is cheaper, the overclocker is more expensive.

I want this CPU cheap, but let's be real, it's Intel.



* (I only added this one, because of those leaked sandra benches 2 weeks ago, I'm guessing they'll make a 6 core without HT?)
 

kalston

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6 cores is super tempting. I really need faster RAM too (still on Haswell/DDR3 for now) since I play games like Arma 3 and DCS that gain a lot from it. Curious to know how high it will clock.
 

DuronBurgerMan

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Saw a guy post a theory tonight that maybe the i5 6c (6t only) is the top end model for z370 and 1151 pins.
The Kaby-X would be the base model x299, then coffee 6c12t HEDT (x299) and so on.
It was an interesting idea, because it seems so ridiculous for Intel to release

4/4
4/8
6/6
6/12

all on 1151 pin
PLUS


4/8
6/12

8/16
10/20
12/24
all on the x299 (2000 pin?


That's a heck of a lot of crossover. I hope his theory is wrong.
Why even do Kaby-X or HEDT 6 core, when Coffee 6/12 (if it exists) would be exceptional value?

Saw something like that too. Except that 6c/12t would only be for x299. 6c/6t *or* 4c/8t would be top for z370. So for mainstream Intel would give you a choice of 6 real cores without HT, or 4 cores with HT. 6c/12t still reserved for HEDT only. Price would be similar to present, except 12/24 model would be around $2000, since that doesn't exist in the current HEDT stack.

It made a lot of sense. But it was just some random guy's theory, though.
 

Gideon

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There still planning to sell 4 cores they wont cut the price of the 7700k as it sells the most. The 6 core will be more then $350, seen Intel price things for years they dont care what AMD is up to they price their product stack how they want to and it's never down, unless Ryzen is hammering them.
 

Shintai

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There still planning to sell 4 cores they wont cut the price of the 7700k as it sells the most. The 6 core will be more then $350, seen Intel price things for years they dont care what AMD is up to they price their product stack how they want to and it's never down, unless Ryzen is hammering them.

Some people said a 64$ 2C/4T Pentium was impossible because Intels sells 100$+ i3 yet it's here.

And Ryzen isn't doing anything, that's already been established by AMD.

Looks like someone fears a 350$ CFL-S with 6C/12T at 4Ghz.
 

AbRASiON

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Saw something like that too. Except that 6c/12t would only be for x299. 6c/6t *or* 4c/8t would be top for z370. So for mainstream Intel would give you a choice of 6 real cores without HT, or 4 cores with HT. 6c/12t still reserved for HEDT only. Price would be similar to present, except 12/24 model would be around $2000, since that doesn't exist in the current HEDT stack.

It made a lot of sense. But it was just some random guy's theory, though.

Perfectly reasonable theory too :{
We can only speculate. I must admit, it seems kinda crazy for Intel to release a 1151 z370 6/12 chip, simply because with 3200 or 3666 memory it would be a complete and utter beast and render a LOT of the x299 line pointless.
Unless they gimp it in other ways.
 

Shintai

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Perfectly reasonable theory too :{
We can only speculate. I must admit, it seems kinda crazy for Intel to release a 1151 z370 6/12 chip, simply because with 3200 or 3666 memory it would be a complete and utter beast and render a LOT of the x299 line pointless.
Unless they gimp it in other ways.

There is nothing new in that is there? If you wanted high clock for gaming, LGA115x was the go. Remember i7 3820 and i7 4820K for example?

And HEDT have always been a halo product. It moves what, half a million CPUs a year or less?
 
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EuphoricRage470

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Some people said a 64$ 2C/4T Pentium was impossible because Intels sells 100$+ i3 yet it's here.

And Ryzen isn't doing anything, that's already been established by AMD.

Looks like someone fears a 350$ CFL-S with 6C/12T at 4Ghz.

It's pretty funny how people complain that Intel isn't improving their perf/$, then when Intel preps to improve perf/$, people say that Intel won't do it.
 

Gideon

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Some people said a 64$ 2C/4T Pentium was impossible because Intels sells 100$+ i3 yet it's here.

And Ryzen isn't doing anything, that's already been established by AMD.

Looks like someone fears a 350$ CFL-S with 6C/12T at 4Ghz.

Nope, just having a good laugh at the delusion Intel is going to give you a good deal, the I3 is not enthusiast part and no serious person in this forum would even consider it. They slapped hyper threading on it so things would still run on it as you need more then a dual core these days. All they did was turn something on that had been there all along, my damn cell phone has more real cores. I look forward to the crying when you realize that $350 for their upcoming 6 core wont be happening. They still plan on selling Nuclear Kaby Lake and I dont see them lowering the price on it since it sells the most.
 

Raendor

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With Rockit 88 and CLU I don't care about good or bad TIM and gap any more :D Just bring compatibility with Z170 (with z270 it's obligatory for intel!) and I'll by that hexacore.
 

Gideon

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With Rockit 88 and CLU I don't care about good or bad TIM and gap any more :D Just bring compatibility with Z170 (with z270 it's obligatory for intel!) and I'll by that hexacore.

I hope you get that compatibility but knowing Intel it wont be.
 

Raendor

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I hope you get that compatibility but knowing Intel it wont be.

Well, if not z170, than at least z270 should hopefully work. I don't have my hopes high for z170, but that would've been really nice of them. Lots of people have no reason to change MB but will be more than willing to get moar cores.
 

DuronBurgerMan

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Looks like someone fears a 350$ CFL-S with 6C/12T at 4Ghz.

Not sure about the other folks, but a 6c/12t Intel product at that price would have been great a few months ago when I was trying to decide between Intel products or Ryzen. I would have bought one in a heartbeat.

Still, I share the sentiments of some other folks, in that I doubt Intel will do that. Yes, normally Intel just replaces SKUs with minor (if any) price changes. But they've also been selling us nothing but quads in that price bracket, too. This is new. It is more likely, IMHO, that Intel will create a new price bracket to hold the mainstream 6c/12t products (if, indeed, they ARE 6c/12t - we've only seen a 6c/6t so far - who knows?). In fact, given that such a product would be an effective competitor against 8c/16t Ryzen CPUs even in multithreaded workloads, I'd expect it to be priced around the $500 mark.

But hey, if Intel decides to prove me wrong, that'd be great.
 

CSI_PC

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Not sure about the other folks, but a 6c/12t Intel product at that price would have been great a few months ago when I was trying to decide between Intel products or Ryzen. I would have bought one in a heartbeat.

Still, I share the sentiments of some other folks, in that I doubt Intel will do that. Yes, normally Intel just replaces SKUs with minor (if any) price changes. But they've also been selling us nothing but quads in that price bracket, too. This is new. It is more likely, IMHO, that Intel will create a new price bracket to hold the mainstream 6c/12t products (if, indeed, they ARE 6c/12t - we've only seen a 6c/6t so far - who knows?). In fact, given that such a product would be an effective competitor against 8c/16t Ryzen CPUs even in multithreaded workloads, I'd expect it to be priced around the $500 mark.

But hey, if Intel decides to prove me wrong, that'd be great.

Problem with that though is it would mean selling a mainstream 6/12 for more than the niche true high performance range 6800K HEDT rrp ($434), it will be a fair chunk cheaper than that under $400 as their designs and costs and market size-focus are quite different.
Personally I see it anywhere between $350-$375.

Maybe the price of the 8C/16T HEDT will give us a slight indicator to the CFL-S because I cannot see Intel being able to price the Skylake-X 8C/16T similar to the 6900K at $1k, just how much will they reduce the price by will be interesting.
Cheers
 
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DuronBurgerMan

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Problem with that though is it would mean selling a mainstream 6/12 for more than the niche true high performance range 6800K HEDT rrp ($434), it will be a fair chunk cheaper than that as their designs and costs are quite different.
Cheers

Which is why I wonder if we're missing something here. I mean, if the i7 line was moving to 6c/12t, and i5 to 6c/6t, why even bother with something like Kaby Lake-X (4c/8t) on HEDT platform? And they are positioning *that* as an i7 (7740 IIRC).

Though to be fair, 6800K is far slower in clockspeed, and a bit slower in IPC than a CFL 6c/12t would be... so it may not be that farfetched to presume a slightly higher price for CFL. Skylake-X would just be higher, still.
 

CSI_PC

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Which is why I wonder if we're missing something here. I mean, if the i7 line was moving to 6c/12t, and i5 to 6c/6t, why even bother with something like Kaby Lake-X (4c/8t) on HEDT platform? And they are positioning *that* as an i7 (7740 IIRC).

Though to be fair, 6800K is far slower in clockspeed, and a bit slower in IPC than a CFL 6c/12t would be... so it may not be that farfetched to presume a slightly higher price for CFL. Skylake-X would just be higher, still.
But that also ignores the costs difference between the HEDT and mainstream that is not as expensive in design.
Just because the 6800K does not clock as well is not a reason to raise price.
How much has the priced increased between Haswell and Kaby Lake for 4C/8T mainstream?
The price actually lowered a little (with deals) or was the same correct even though IPC (improved some) and clock rates improved a fair amount?

Cheers
 
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TaintedSquirrel

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The fact that intel didn't solder their chip to the heat spreader and the fact that people get -25C after replacing the TIM are my proof.
They also replace the adhesive and physically re-mount the heatspreader. What about those?

Do say: "Intel should produce CPUs with better thermals."
Don't say: "Intel uses shitty TIM."

Stop defending intel when it is obvious that they did something wrong, fanboy.
Pointing out when somebody is wrong is not the same as defending Intel.
 

Gideon

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I dont think the 6800k will be continuing once Coffee Lake is out, not sure on that tho.
 

drescherjm

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Skylake X will take its place. Since there will be a 4C / 8T on that platform (KBL-X) there probably will be a 6C / 12T as well.
 
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CSI_PC

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I dont think the 6800k will be continuing once Coffee Lake is out, not sure on that tho.
No idea if it will be stopped end of May [Edit: mixed the launch dates not thinking, Skylake-X is before CFL-S] but remember Skylake-X is not long away so stockpile would be dropping anyway.
but the point is about price segment and one will not sell a mainstream 6C/12T for the same price as a niche HEDT 6C/12T that has additional costs relative to the mainstream.

Edit:
6800K will be replaced by Skylake-X before the mainstream 6C/12T is launched as Coffee Lake.
So there is no clash.
Cheers
 
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Gideon

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They also replace the adhesive and physically re-mount the heatspreader. What about those?

Do say: "Intel should produce CPUs with better thermals."
Don't say: "Intel uses shitty TIM."

TIM or the gap, it really doesn't matter, they messed it up and deserve all the hate they are getting. Your just making excuses for them and would be pissed if it was affecting you.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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TIM or the gap, it really doesn't matter, they messed it up and deserve all the hate they are getting. Your just making excuses for them and would be pissed if it was affecting you.
It does affect me though. And again, pointing out the truth isn't "making excuses". If people would just complain about the CPU package running hot instead of lame "SHITTY PASTE" memes, we'd be golden.
 

juanrga

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What kind of clocks would we expect?

SKL 12C ~ 3.2GHz
SKL 10C ~ 3.4GHz
SKL 8C ~ 3.6GHz
SKL 6C ~ 3.8GHz
CFL 6C ~ 4.0GHz
 

Napoleon

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is there an event of release or paper launch or anything concrete that we know about coming in the near future? not that i don't like boarding the hype train, but i'd prefer to not be disappointed if i can avoid it

I'd like to look forward to tuning in to a conference or something official where realtails (real details, new word?) are presented
 

Shintai

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is there an event of release or paper launch or anything concrete that we know about coming in the near future? not that i don't like boarding the hype train, but i'd prefer to not be disappointed if i can avoid it

I'd like to look forward to tuning in to a conference or something official where realtails (real details, new word?) are presented

May 30th it seems for some official information.
 

DuronBurgerMan

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No idea if it will be stopped end of May [Edit: mixed the launch dates not thinking, Skylake-X is before CFL-S] but remember Skylake-X is not long away so stockpile would be dropping anyway.
but the point is about price segment and one will not sell a mainstream 6C/12T for the same price as a niche HEDT 6C/12T that has additional costs relative to the mainstream.

Edit:
6800K will be replaced by Skylake-X before the mainstream 6C/12T is launched as Coffee Lake.
So there is no clash.
Cheers

Just spitballing here, so don't read too much into it. But what if we saw the removal of the low-end $400-$450 6c HEDT part (the 6800k equivalent)... and Intel only kept the high-end 6c part (the 6850k) equivalent in the HEDT.

In other words, perhaps the 6c mainstream part is a $400-$450 x800k part, and Intel is merely moving the SKU from the HEDT space to the mainstream space?

I dunno. I suppose we'll know soon enough. The pricing list for Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X should probably help clarify some stuff.
 

Shintai

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Just spitballing here, so don't read too much into it. But what if we saw the removal of the low-end $400-$450 6c HEDT part (the 6800k equivalent)... and Intel only kept the high-end 6c part (the 6850k) equivalent in the HEDT.

In other words, perhaps the 6c mainstream part is a $400-$450 x800k part, and Intel is merely moving the SKU from the HEDT space to the mainstream space?

I dunno. I suppose we'll know soon enough. The pricing list for Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X should probably help clarify some stuff.

So SKL-X 6 core 600$? SKL-X 8 core 1000$? SKL-X 10 core 2000$? SKL-X 12 core 4000$?

It just doesn't fit into the price ranges. And price ranges overrules SKUs. It doesn't matter if it got 1 or a 1000 cores. The mainstream desktop top end hot spot is ~350$.

And I already told you how miniscule HEDT sells already.

The question is if HEDT will even exist after this round with SKL-X and Icelake-X.
 

Soularax

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They also replace the adhesive and physically re-mount the heatspreader. What about those?

Do say: "Intel should produce CPUs with better thermals."
Don't say: "Intel uses shitty TIM."


Pointing out when somebody is wrong is not the same as defending Intel.
I don't think putting different adhesive or remounting affect thermal. Some people didn't even bother reapply adhesive and still get the same thermal performance. So I think those things are irrelevant.

Unless you can supply proof that those things significantly improves thermal, you are just defending Intel out of your fanboyism.
 

Soularax

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Regardless of what caused the CPU's to perform badly in thermal department, you've got to admit that Intel fucked up.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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I don't think putting different adhesive or remounting affect thermal. Some people didn't even bother reapply adhesive and still get the same thermal performance. So I think those things are irrelevant.

Unless you can supply proof that those things significantly improves thermal, you are just defending Intel out of your fanboyism.
I have to be honest, I'm really disappointed in HardForum that not only is this even a discussion we need to have, but the fact that people keep replying the same thing over and over.
At this point I don't know how to properly word it to make it more understandable.

Here's a list of all the things, off the top of my head, that are altered during a de-lid which can contribute to improved thermals:
1. The physical act of removing and re-mounting the heatplate itself.
2. Removing the stock adhesive and either using your own better quality/applied adhesive, or using none at all.
3. Appyling a better amount / better distribution of paste.
4. Applying better quality paste.

The only reason people cite the paste is because it's the most obvious answer and the most communicable. Most people don't know shit about heatplates or adhesive, I don't either tbh, but when someone says "I replaced the paste and got better temps" everybody understands it. Every PC builder knows what TIM is and they know a tube of it costs about $5, so criticizing Intel for "using cheap paste" is just the simplest thing to do. That doesn't mean it's right, though.

And AGAIN, pointing out the truth is not the same as defending Intel.
Whatever is causing Intel's high temps has been a problem for five years. I would personally LOVE to see them fix it but at the same time they are outperforming AMD by huge margins so I doubt they even care. Like I said in the other thread, Intel's entire line-up outclocks AMD even with the shitty paste. They're doing something right.

You can continue throwing around terms like "fanboy" but it seems like you're willing to throw facts to the wind for the sheer goal of criticizing Intel. I think we can easily see who the real fanboys are. Keep the shitty memes on PCMasterRace where they belong. This forum is for big boys.
 

Soularax

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I have to be honest, I'm really disappointed in HardForum that not only is this even a discussion we need to have, but the fact that people keep replying the same thing over and over.
At this point I don't know how to properly word it to make it more understandable.

Here's a list of all the things, off the top of my head, that are altered during a de-lid which can contribute to improved thermals:
1. The physical act of removing and re-mounting the heatplate itself.
2. Removing the stock adhesive and either using your own better quality/applied adhesive, or using none at all.
3. Appyling a better amount / better distribution of paste.
4. Applying better quality paste.

The only reason people cite the paste is because it's the most obvious answer and the most communicable. Most people don't know shit about heatplates or adhesive, I don't either tbh, but when someone says "I replaced the paste and got better temps" everybody understands it. Every PC builder knows what TIM is and they know a tube of it costs about $5, so criticizing Intel for "using cheap paste" is just the simplest thing to do. That doesn't mean it's right, though.

And AGAIN, pointing out the truth is not the same as defending Intel.
Whatever is causing Intel's high temps has been a problem for five years. I would personally LOVE to see them fix it but at the same time they are outperforming AMD by huge margins so I doubt they even care. Like I said in the other thread, Intel's entire line-up outclocks AMD even with the shitty paste. They're doing something right.

You can continue throwing around terms like "fanboy" but it seems like you're willing to throw facts to the wind for the sheer goal of criticizing Intel. I think we can easily see who the real fanboys are. Keep the shitty memes on PCMasterRace where they belong. This forum is for big boys.

Oh wait, so you actually think I believed it is the TIM that is garbage because of that joke? No. In fact, it doesn't matter where the problem originated from. Intel decided to go cheap. Instead of properly soldering the chip to the heat spreader. And they fucked it up in the end.

Still I don't buy that remounting heat spreader by yourself more thermal benefit than factory mounting and applying different adhesive affects thermal performance...

Those things sound like far fetched theories to me and make you look more like a fanboy than you are.

Also, I'm typing this on a PC with 7700k so accusation of fanboy doesn't affect me.
 
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