Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)

Where do you expect Core i7-8700K's Turbo to land?

  • 3.8/3.9 GHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.0/4.1 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.2/4.3 GHz

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • 4.4/4.5 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.6/4.7 GHz

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

MorgothPl

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The last leaked roadmap showed August/September so we might be looking at a small delay. Which begs the question why even bother releasing the CPUs and Z390 separately?
This bring questions about 370. Was it planned as lower end of chipset and it comes rushed? Was it last minute design to speed up CFL release by few months as a response to Ryzen?

If it was planned, was Intel planning also to milk people for few months then make them change for more advanced chipset?

If it was rushed, is it just slightly tuned z270 with small changes that were needed for CFL or was it fast design that may come with bugs?
 

Shintai

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Its not much different than KBL-R. Its a 14nm++ (You can call it Coffee Lake) with a 22nm chipset. If it was a "real" CFL-U it would feature a 14nm chipset and comes in Q1.

One of the main benefits of the 300 series is integrated wifi. And the use case there for Z series owners may be limited for now. And if so, it can be added with the usual M.2 slot.
 

Shintai

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If it was rushed, is it just slightly tuned z270 with small changes that were needed for CFL or was it fast design that may come with bugs?

Z370 is 100% identical to Z270.

However the electrical parts for the LGA1151 socket may have changed. IMVP9 VRM and perhaps pin layout etc.

But from a chipset point of view, its the same and no changes besides flipping a number. The chipset sits on a PCIe x4 link so as such you can use any chipset. A Z170 if you wanted to would work. Most likely a Z68 too.
 

Raendor

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If z300 series support existing Skylake and Kaby-lake CPUs - I might get the mobo first (preferably z390?), as I don't really need a new cpu for gaming right now, but would like to have some upgrade path in future.
 

Speedeu4ia

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I'm thinking they are staying on the delayed schedule for multiple reasons. Giving z270/kabby more time. Getting the z390 chipset done meaning z370 no longer exists (meaning it was only a way to rush the release). Both things that people will complain

Although the presentation I saw they said in desktops by the holidays so nothing is really delayed

Most likely the socket has changed slightly, on purpose or not....Not sure why they still want to call it 1151 though
 
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Shintai

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If z300 series support existing Skylake and Kaby-lake CPUs - I might get the mobo first (preferably z390?), as I don't really need a new cpu for gaming right now, but would like to have some upgrade path in future.

The chipset may support it, the socket may not.

I'm thinking they are staying on the delayed schedule for multiple reasons. Giving z270/kabby more time. Getting the z390 chipset done. Both things that people will complain about.

Although the presentation I saw they said in desktops by the holidays so nothing is really delayed

Z370 is a reality and mobos are designed and manufactured.

Mobile got 14nm++ first.
 

bpizzle1

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Well that's a bummer. I was looking forward to getting some CFL details this morning (as was most of the tech world apparently). Guess we're all stuck waiting a bit longer. Granted, maybe this means we'll see Z390 availability with CFL launch now.
 

Raendor

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z270 not supporting CFL is still a shitty move by intel though. They knew they'll be releasing CFL on 1151 when they released Kaby. Could at least provide necessary implementations for CFl support since the timeline between the two turned out to be so short.
 

MorgothPl

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The socket may have changed electrically. Or just the VRM spec.

Why LGA2011 that isn't LGA2011? ;)
Wasn't that same with C2D? That one of Intel bad axe motherboards was not working with Wolfdale and only its 2nd rev. with different vrms worked?
 

King of Heroes

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Nobody here gives a shit about mobile chips lmao.

I do, to an extent. It potentially means that the next Dell XPS 13 version will have a quad-core processor and maybe more RAM, which I'm looking forward to. I love my 9350, but having a low power dual-core chip with only 8GB of memory is NOT fun when you have to use it as a primary PC.
 

SpeedyVV

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I do, to an extent. It potentially means that the next Dell XPS 13 version will have a quad-core processor and maybe more RAM, which I'm looking forward to. I love my 9350, but having a low power dual-core chip with only 8GB of memory is NOT fun when you have to use it as a primary PC.

I do too, but when I do, I go to the laptop forum.

Here I expect to see desktop stuff.

To say I'm slightly disappointed, would be a major understatement.
 
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juanrga

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we don't need to wonder. 8700k will be faster than 7800X, and 7800X is already usually faster than 1800X http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1903?vs=1950

The 7800X is also cheaper than the 1800X and consumes similar power.

Power2.png


Anandtech gets a huge power consumption disparity between both, because measures power consumption with AVX512 workloads that stress the 512bit SIMD units on SKL-X, whereas RyZen only has 128bit FMAC units.

I think we can safely conclude that the CFL 8700k will beat the 1800X on any metric: MT performance, ST performance, efficiency, overclocking headroom, and price.
 

dgacioch

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Ah well, I was hoping we would have a release date on the desktop parts but I was prepared to be disappointed. If i had to guess now, I would think October or November at the earliest to give retailers time to move out as much of the remaining kaby lake inventory as possible. Gives me a few more months to save up anyway.
 

Dan_D

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As others have stated, it's possible that the chipset isn't really changing beyond getting rebranded. That said, VRM specifications can and do sometimes change. We've seen this before. Several Intel motherboards had to be of a specific revision to support newer CPU's. NVIDIA's 780i SLI chipset was virtually identical to the 680i SLI chipset it replaced aside from the nF200 chipset being added to it for PCIe 2.0 compatibility. The VRM specifications had to change as well because Intel altered the CPU specifications so that newer CPUs wouldn't work on the older 680i SLI boards. Don't forget Socket 370. There were older socket 370 motherboards that only supported Celeron CPUs, then later socket 370 motherboards that supported Coppermine Pentium III CPUs. Then there is LGA 2011. We've seen multiple versions of this socket, yet they are electrically different.

Allot of people accuse Intel of being "the bad guys" for changing sockets too often. The reality is, we've had issues that stem from not changing the sockets often enough on the AMD side. Microcode, BIOS issues, and TDP increases or voltage specifications changes prevent some motherboards from using newer CPUs anyway.
 
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Denpepe

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As others have stated, it's possible that the chipset isn't really changing beyond getting rebranded. That said, VRM specifications can and do sometimes change. We've seen this before. Several Intel motherboards had to be of a specific revision to support newer CPU's. NVIDIA's 780i SLI chipset was virtually identical to the 680i SLI chipset it replaced aside from the nF200 chipset being added to it for PCIe 2.0 compatibility. The VRM specifications had to change as well because Intel altered the CPU specifications so that newer CPUs wouldn't work on the older 680i SLI boards. Don't forget Socket 370. There were older socket 370 motherboards that only supported Celeron CPUs, then later socket 370 motherboards that supported Coppermine Pentium III CPUs. Then there is LGA 2011. We've seen multiple versions of this socket, yet they are electrically different.

Allot of people accuse Intel of being "the bad guys" for changing sockets too often. The reality is, we've had issues that stem from not changing the sockets often enough on the AMD side. Microcode, BIOS issues, and TDP increases or voltage specifications changes prevent some motherboards from using newer CPUs anyway.

While I don't disagree, cfl es have been tested on Z270 mobo's according to some early leaks (unless this was because the benchmarking software did not recognise z370) so unless they made some last minute changes they should work in theory.

Beeing on a semi busted motherboard I was kinda hoping to be able to get coffe lake rather sooner then later, might go for an i7 7820x now instead (if only those mobo's were not so damn expensive)
 

juanrga

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Allot of people accuse Intel of being "the bad guys" for changing sockets too often. The reality is, we've had issues that stem from not changing the sockets often enough on the AMD side. Microcode, BIOS issues, and TDP increases or voltage specifications changes prevent some motherboards from using newer CPUs anyway.

Good point! Lots of people assume that AM4 mobo will support any future chip without issues.
 

drescherjm

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Lots of people assume that AM4 mobo will support any future chip without issues.

AM4 should support 1 more generation. After that I am not sure because DDR5 and PCIe4 will both require new motherboards so unless AMD does not offer these I expect new boards and CPUs in 2 or so years.

Although with that said will the IceLake boards support DDR5 and PCIe4 ? Or will the boards supporting IceLake only be around for 1 generation?
 
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RPGWiZaRD

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Soooo, how far away are we guys away from a plausible CFL-S launch u think? To me even Sept. 16th seems like a not very likely date due to today's very abstract only mobil chip presentation with no word on desktop. It to me feels like we're 2 months, maybe slightly more away, more like.

This is based on how little ES samples and how little leaked mobo pics/info in general are floating around. Either this is going to be some tightass release schedule with tighter than ever NDA show or we're just thinking too optimistic with launch date. If on top of that, the Z390 is dropped or Z390 will be 370 or however you look at it, it's going to need some additional time.
 

Dan_D

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While I don't disagree, cfl es have been tested on Z270 mobo's according to some early leaks (unless this was because the benchmarking software did not recognise z370) so unless they made some last minute changes they should work in theory.

Beeing on a semi busted motherboard I was kinda hoping to be able to get coffe lake rather sooner then later, might go for an i7 7820x now instead (if only those mobo's were not so damn expensive)

The same thing was true of Wolfdale and Yorkfield CPU's. Last minute changes on the physical CPUs prevented 680i SLI motherboards like the Striker Extreme from using them.despite being used for testing earlier silicon. Many people thought that Intel was just getting back at NVIDIA for running it's mouth, but the truth is that these devices are incredibly complex and we might never know the real reason for the change. Errata that showed up during final testing could have been responsible for a VRD specification change that precludes the use of these CPUs on earlier motherboards.
 

juanrga

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AM4 should support 1 more generation. After that I am not sure because DDR5 and PCIe4 will both require new motherboards so unless AMD does not offer these I expect new boards and CPUs in 2 or so years.

And that new generation (Pinnacle Ridge) is just a Summit Ridge refresh, aka the same design, but with higher clocks thanks to more mature 14LPP node for the time when Pinnacle Ridge launches.
 

Meeho

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Allot of people accuse Intel of being "the bad guys" for changing sockets too often. The reality is, we've had issues that stem from not changing the sockets often enough on the AMD side. Microcode, BIOS issues, and TDP increases or voltage specifications changes prevent some motherboards from using newer CPUs anyway.
Not even remotely comparable.
 

kirbyrj

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Not even remotely comparable.

Exactly. This isn't even a process shrink or a new architecture. This is a money grab. I'm sure the bulk of the high end z270 already have compatibility with the "new" vrm specs.
 

Raendor

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Exactly. This isn't even a process shrink or a new architecture. This is a money grab. I'm sure the bulk of the high end z270 already have compatibility with the "new" vrm specs.
That's why I'm not making a rushed decision and will most likely wait for ice Lake. At least it will be a new step after Cannon Lake die shrink and most definitely new socket/chipset again.
 

drescherjm

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Also (as I said several times now) sometime in the next 2 or so years we will have DDR5 and PCIe4. I expect that both AMD and Intel will have to switch motherboards for these.
 

AbRASiON

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Trying to decide now if I should get a fast ram kit over a slow one.
3200 MHz 14/16 CAS vs 3000 MHz? Or maybe lower.

This is the price history of a generic 32GB 3200 MHz 16CAS kit.
Nearly doubled in 1 yr.

4SYnMFL.png


Thanks for providing the data, I thought it might be easing off, nope it's only getting worse, it's ridiculous, especially as an enthusiast. I wanted to grab 32gb of high end DDR 4 a year ago, but no CPU was out that I wanted :/
 
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