Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)

Where do you expect Core i7-8700K's Turbo to land?

  • 3.8/3.9 GHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.0/4.1 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.2/4.3 GHz

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • 4.4/4.5 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.6/4.7 GHz

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,217
Wonder what boost clock will be like, even if Kaby Lake 7700K only has 300MHz boost (4.2->4.5) I still hope it will be boosting to at least 4.0GHz for the 6C because usually it's at least a slight indication of OC'ability/power consumption leakage/scaling etc. That would give hopes of a ~4.5GHz or so clock, if it will be like 3.8GHz, then 4.5GHz starts feeling like a slight stretch and 4.3GHz overclocks or so sounds more reasonable on air/water.

Pls keep this thread update as soon as you find additional details (or rumors). My purchase decision depends on it. :p
 
Last edited:

bwang

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
1,072
Coffee Lake is the same process and architecture as the Kaby (or maybe Sky?) Lake, with a proportionately larger die versus the 4C models, so there is no reason it should not overclock as high as current products as long as you can move the heat.
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Coffee Lake is the same process and architecture as the Kaby (or maybe Sky?) Lake, with a proportionately larger die versus the 4C models, so there is no reason it should not overclock as high as current products as long as you can move the heat.

The process used is 14nm++. But else its pretty much just a SKL/KBL with 6 cores and 12MB cache.

SKL was 14nm. KBL 14nm+.
 

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,217
Quite the find sweepr! So seems i5 will have 6 cores too.

One can always hope that they do proceed to 6C/12T i7 and 6C/6T i5 configs, it would be about time. i3 can stick to quad core and I think perhaps there might be some i5 option with only quad core as well, particularly in laptop models, maybe some desktop model.
 
Last edited:

juanrga

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
2,804
One can always hope that they do proceed to 6C/12T i7 and 6C/6T i5 configs, it would be about time. i3 can stick to quad core and I think perhaps there might be some i5 option with only quad core as well, particularly in laptop models, maybe some desktop model.

Similar thoughts on my side

Why not

i7 = 6C/12T
i5 = 6C/6T
i3 = 4C/8T
Pentium 4C/4T
Celeron 2C/4T ?
 

-Sweeper_

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
184
DigiTimes reaffirms Skylake-X / Kaby Lake-X in June, Coffee Lake-S in August:

DigiTimes said:
As Intel's new Kaby Lake processors have not stimulated as much demand as expected since their launch in January, the sources are concerned that Intel's new top-end platform for June and new Coffee Lake processors for August may also face weak demand.

Another bit:

DigiTimes said:
Sources from motherboard players pointed out that notebooks have been gradually taking demand away from traditional PCs as a result of their better specifications, smaller form factors and cheaper prices.

www.digitimes.com/news/a20170424PD201.html
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Desktop Dino is the short version to that Sweepr.

High gamble in gaming laptops is paying off big time.
 

Cali3350

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
4,701
Coffee Lake is the same process and architecture as the Kaby (or maybe Sky?) Lake, with a proportionately larger die versus the 4C models, so there is no reason it should not overclock as high as current products as long as you can move the heat.

Still more failure points. 2 more cores and more cache. I'm hopeful for a standard 4.5 though!
 

TaintedSquirrel

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
11,196
If the 8600K & 8700K are 6C chips I'm gonna save bookoo bucks this year. Skylake-X + X299 in my original plan were going to be way more expensive.
 

oleNBR

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
372
so hyped. but i know the mainstream 6c wont have quad channel or turbo boost 3.0 support.. kinda sad :(
 

CSI_PC

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
2,193
so hyped. but i know the mainstream 6c wont have quad channel or turbo boost 3.0 support.. kinda sad :(

For mainstram no real reason for quad channel though.
Interesting point regarding turbo boost 3, as it is a 6C I would had thought it should be implemented but something to watch out for.
Although its benefits are kinda small unless really playing around with it and hooking into apps.

Cheers
 

TaintedSquirrel

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
11,196
Will Coffee Lake clock higher than Skylake-X? Could be a nice benefit. Maybe some IPC improvement too? Not really familiar with Intel's architectures.
 

juanrga

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
2,804
Will Coffee Lake clock higher than Skylake-X? Could be a nice benefit. Maybe some IPC improvement too? Not really familiar with Intel's architectures.

I guess coffee would come with higher clocks and overclock better due to simpler/smaller core and the 14++ node. Skylake-X would have higher IPC on benches that can benefit from the larger L2, and much higher IPC on AVX512 stuff. That is why I think coffee will be the preferred choice for gaming and Skylake-X the preferred option for compute.
 

oleNBR

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
372
I guess coffee would come with higher clocks and overclock better due to simpler/smaller core and the 14++ node. Skylake-X would have higher IPC on benches that can benefit from the larger L2, and much higher IPC on AVX512 stuff. That is why I think coffee will be the preferred choice for gaming and Skylake-X the preferred option for compute.

turbo boost 3.0 is a nice thing, overclock 1 core to 5.5ghz
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Will Coffee Lake clock higher than Skylake-X? Could be a nice benefit. Maybe some IPC improvement too? Not really familiar with Intel's architectures.

For 6 vs 6 cores? Likely. But its not as easy to judge as in old days where it was 4 vs 6 cores. We already know a 18 core SKL-SP clocks at 3.2Ghz base at 130W.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Maybe it will be worthwhile to upgrade from a Devils canyon now.....maybe.

Anyone thinking this is going to adjust intels prices is living a dream, the prices with just be re adjusted.

i7 - 400-500USD
i5 - 300-400USD
i3 - 200-300USD
Pentiums - 100-200USD
Celerons - Sub 100USD

Intel X 500-2500USD.
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Maybe it will be worthwhile to upgrade from a Devils canyon now.....maybe.

Anyone thinking this is going to adjust intels prices is living a dream, the prices with just be re adjusted.

i7 - 400-500USD
i5 - 300-400USD
i3 - 200-300USD
Pentiums - 100-200USD
Celerons - Sub 100USD

Intel X 500-2500USD.

Just as people are buying 899-999$ reference GTX1080Ti...Oh wait, Its not, its 699.

Now I recommend you go study how volume and optimal pricing works for the highest profit.
 
Last edited:

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Just as people are buying 899-999$ reference GTX1080Ti...Oh wait, Its not, its 699.

Now I recommend you go study how volume and optimal pricing works for the highest profit.

who said a 1080ti was that price, it is 700USD and a Titan X/XP is 1200USD clearly high profit margins, Intel operates the same way, wouldn't be surprised if it is more expensive
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
who said a 1080ti was that price, it is 700USD and a Titan X/XP is 1200USD clearly high profit margins, Intel operates the same way, wouldn't be surprised if it is more expensive

If it's more expensive volume goes down and so does profit. So what´s your idea of the business case that will earn less money? Just face the reality, the top end LGA1151 CFL-S i7 is 350.

A 64$ Pentium with HT wasn't possible either for certain people, yet it got released.

See it on the bright side, a 1800X should be 250-300$ after the release.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
If it's more expensive volume goes down and so does profit. So what´s your idea of the business case that will earn less money? Just face the reality, the top end LGA1151 CFL-S i7 is 350.

A 64$ Pentium with HT wasn't possible either for certain people, yet it got released.

See it on the bright side, a 1800X should be 250-300$ after the release.

jIntel never do more for less ever, and will never happen. Much like AMD didn't charge 700-800USD as some of you thought they would for Ryzen.

Economics also dictate, per wallstreet journal, intel has 3 times more guaranteed debt than income, why would they sell low profits if they already have spiraling debt and a 10nm process more elusive than any information on VEGA.
 

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,217
Maybe it will be worthwhile to upgrade from a Devils canyon now.....maybe.

Anyone thinking this is going to adjust intels prices is living a dream, the prices with just be re adjusted.

i7 - 400-500USD
i5 - 300-400USD
i3 - 200-300USD
Pentiums - 100-200USD
Celerons - Sub 100USD

Intel X 500-2500USD.

This is also what I expect but with the difference I don't see any prob with it, why shouldn't they ask for what the product is worth versus both their older as well as competition's offering?

My expectations roughly lie:

i7-8700K, 6C/12T 3.8GHz/4.2GHz (turbo) - $469
i5-8600K, 6C/6T 3.6GHz/4.0GHz (turbo) - $359
i3-8X00, 4C/4T 3.4GHz/3.8GHz (turbo) - $219

This compares to:

Ryzen 7 1800X - $499
Ryzen 7 1700X - $399
Ryzen 7 1700 - $329

Where I expect Intel have a an average performance lead taking all the tests while AMD Ryzen still will have a clear lead in video encoding and some compute heavy multithreaded application, like 70~80% of tests Intel should be beating with an avg performance number out all those tests being better for Intel perhaps in the line with 15~20% faster and when taking price/overclockability/power consumption etc all in consideration Intel probably will stick out as the better pick for most people and this in return leads to AMD dropping prices slightly on the Ryzen lineup shortly after the launch. Well that's what my crystal ball is telling. :p This is the smartest route to go for Intel, increase pricing versus their previous quad core lineup slightly while still making AMD Ryzen look expensive.
 
Last edited:

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
This is also what I expect but with the difference I don't see any prob with it, why shouldn't they ask for what the product is worth versus both their older as well as competition's offering?

My expectations roughly lie:

i7-8700K, 6C/12T 3.8GHz/4.2GHz (turbo) - $469
i5-8600K, 6C/6T 3.6GHz/4.0GHz (turbo) - $359
i3-8X00, 4C/4T 3.4GHz/3.8GHz (turbo) - $219

This compares to:

Ryzen 7 1800X - $499
Ryzen 7 1700X - $399
Ryzen 7 1700 - $329

Where I expect Intel have a an average performance lead taking all the tests while AMD Ryzen still will have a clear lead in video encoding and some compute heavy multithreaded application, like 70~80% of tests Intel should be beating with an avg performance number out all those tests being better for Intel perhaps in the line with 15~20% faster and when taking price/overclockability/power consumption etc all in consideration Intel probably will stick out as the better pick for most people and this in return leads to AMD dropping prices slightly on the Ryzen lineup shortly after the launch. Well that's what my crystal ball is telling. :p This is the smartest route to go for Intel, increase pricing versus their previous quad core lineup slightly while still making AMD Ryzen look expensive.

Pinnacle Ridge will then release and from that clock speeds are bumped along with IMC tweaks, by that point Summit ridge is replaced. I expect AMD will adapt prices a bit especially at the 1800X and 1700X, possibly the 1400/1500X to create a wider gap and distinction in price to performance.

If there is anything to be taken out of Ryzen and the effect on Intel is that it hasn't changed a thing, expect Intel to raise prices on cores and threads, while segmenting their range into higher price ranges while adding resources. Intel will never be cheap.
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
jIntel never do more for less ever, and will never happen. Much like AMD didn't charge 700-800USD as some of you thought they would for Ryzen.

Economics also dictate, per wallstreet journal, intel has 3 times more guaranteed debt than income, why would they sell low profits if they already have spiraling debt and a 10nm process more elusive than any information on VEGA.

Why isn't Intel charging more than they do for a 7700K then? Intel have LOWERED the price since the days where something like i7 7700K costed 530$.

Let me simplify it for you, since you obviously dont understand the volume/profit ratio. If Intel sold to the prices you dream of to save Ryzen, then they would make LESS money. See, bad business case. Just as the 64$ HT Pentium isn't 100$.

Pinnacle Ridge will then release and from that clock speeds are bumped along with IMC tweaks, by that point Summit ridge is replaced. I expect AMD will adapt prices a bit especially at the 1800X and 1700X, possibly the 1400/1500X to create a wider gap and distinction in price to performance.

If there is anything to be taken out of Ryzen and the effect on Intel is that it hasn't changed a thing, expect Intel to raise prices on cores and threads, while segmenting their range into higher price ranges while adding resources. Intel will never be cheap.

Pinnacle Ridge is a 2019 or 2020 product. AMD have priced Ryzen exactly where the price segment is. Not above, not below.

The reason a i7 7700K is still 350$ is because its still the king of the 99% tasks.
 

-Sweeper_

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
184
If there is anything to be taken out of Ryzen and the effect on Intel is that it hasn't changed a thing, expect Intel to raise prices on cores and threads, while segmenting their range into higher price ranges while adding resources. Intel will never be cheap.

Keep telling yourself that. Here's what will most likely happen: CFL-S replacing KBL-S at the same price brackets. HEDT gets 2 extra cores, except entry-level 6C (so 8C at 6850 price, 10C at 6900K price and 12C at 650X price). AMD will be back to <$350 in a heartbeat.

And Pinnacle Ridge is not even a new core according to roadmaps, so more of the same at higher clocks, while Intel may have Ice Lake out in late 2018.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Pinnacle Ridge is a 2019 or 2020 product. AMD have priced Ryzen exactly where the price segment is. Not above, not below.

The reason a i7 7700K is still 350$ is because its still the king of the 99% tasks.

No, it is Q1 2018, nobody knows what the next iteration is but likely at 7nm after that, probably on IBM nodes. Pinnicle ridge has already been slated by AMD direct for Q1 next year and from my sources the ES chips have already been received.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Keep telling yourself that. Here's what will most likely happen: CFL-S replacing KBL-S at the same price brackets. HEDT gets 2 extra cores, except entry-lvel 6C (so 8C at 6850 price, 10C at 6900K price and 12C at 650X price). AMD will be back to <$350 in a heartbeat.


Intel will not give you extra resources on a mainstream platform and charge the same, it just will not happen and it is great for Intel as they get to segment their X platform higher then to differentiate from the mainstream 6/12 i7's, this just is $$$$ all over for them.
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Intel will not give you extra resources on a mainstream platform and charge the same, it just will not happen and it is great for Intel as they get to segment their X platform higher then to differentiate from the mainstream 6/12 i7's, this just is $$$$ all over for them.

AMD will not give extra, Nvidia will not give extra. Nobody will not give extra.

What you dont understand is the volume/profit ratio part. Prices dont change, only SKUs. Top CFL-S is 350$.

There is a reason why prices have been this for roughly 10 years. And it got nothing to do with competition.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
AMD will not give extra, Nvidia will not give extra. Nobody will not give extra.

What you dont understand is the volume/profit ratio part. Prices dont change, only SKUs. Top CFL-S is 350$.

were you not the major protagonist on AMD will never give you a 8 core for under 500 dollars? You were in the 700+ range and AMD did in the end give it sub 500 dollars. Intel and Nvidia are not interested in your moaning, either you have the money or you don't' that is all they care about, they will give you the marginal gains and more resources and you will pay for that, that is the bottom line.
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
were you not the major protagonist on AMD will never give you a 8 core for under 500 dollars? You were in the 700+ range and AMD did in the end give it sub 500 dollars. Intel and Nvidia are not interested in your moaning, either you have the money or you don't' that is all they care about, they will give you the marginal gains and more resources and you will pay for that, that is the bottom line.

8 slow cores for cheaper? How unexpected isn't it. AMD have given you 8 cores for cheap since 2011. Go figure out why.

Again, the price segments doesn't change because that's what buyers are willing to pay. then you can play the SKU replacement game in the segments, but the segments themselves doesn't change. And for mainstream as LGA1151 is, 350$ is the top.

You should just have waited to buy your Ryzen CPU if you wanted it cheaper.

And in case you somehow missed it. Intel is already selling 6 cores in the 400$ range.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117649&cm_re=6800K-_-19-117-649-_-Product
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
8 slow cores for cheaper? How unexpected isn't it. AMD have given you 8 cores for cheap since 2011. Go figure out why.

Again, the price segments doesn't change because that's what buyers are willing to pay. then you can play the SKU replacement game in the segments, but the segments themselves doesn't change. And for mainstream as LGA1151 is, 350$ is the top.

You should just have waited to buy your Ryzen CPU if you wanted it cheaper.

And in case you somehow missed it. Intel is already selling 6 cores in the 400$ range.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117649&cm_re=6800K-_-19-117-649-_-Product

8 slower cores but without getting into a debate on subjective opinion on that subject which is irrelevant here, it was still well below what you projected, even the original projection was slower than Broadwell E but priced at 700+ based on price/performance metrics to ensure sales.

The bottom line is you are not getting an intel 6/12 CPU for 340USD even if your name was moses.
 

AbRASiON

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
354
Quite the find sweepr! So seems i5 will have 6 cores too.

Saw a guy post a theory tonight that maybe the i5 6c (6t only) is the top end model for z370 and 1151 pins.
The Kaby-X would be the base model x299, then coffee 6c12t HEDT (x299) and so on.
It was an interesting idea, because it seems so ridiculous for Intel to release

4/4
4/8
6/6
6/12

all on 1151 pin
PLUS


4/8
6/12

8/16
10/20
12/24
all on the x299 (2000 pin?


That's a heck of a lot of crossover. I hope his theory is wrong.
Why even do Kaby-X or HEDT 6 core, when Coffee 6/12 (if it exists) would be exceptional value?
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Saw a guy post a theory tonight that maybe the i5 6c (6t only) is the top end model for z370 and 1151 pins.
The Kaby-X would be the base model x299, then coffee 6c12t HEDT (x299) and so on.
It was an interesting idea, because it seems so ridiculous for Intel to release

4/4
4/8
6/6
6/12

all on 1151 pin
PLUS


4/8
6/12

8/16
10/20
12/24
all on the x299 (2000 pin?


That's a heck of a lot of crossover. I hope his theory is wrong.
Why even do Kaby-X or HEDT 6 core, when Coffee 6/12 (if it exists) would be exceptional value?


One is releasing before the other, the sole purpose is to push product to sell, that is all intel is interested in. they have something like 27 SKU's for Kabylake, it is not like they are hard pressed for yields.
 
Top