Intel Talks With TSMC, Samsung To Outsource Some Chip Production

[erek]

"Talks with Samsung, whose foundry capabilities trail TSMC's, are at a more preliminary stage, the people said. An Intel spokesperson referred to previous comments by Bob Swan, the company's chief executive officer. Swan has promised investors he'll set out his plans for outsourcing and get Intel's production technology back on track when the company reports earnings Jan. 21. [...] TSMC, the largest maker of semiconductors for other companies, is preparing to offer Intel chips manufactured using a 4-nanometer process, with initial testing using an older 5-nanometer process, according to the people. The company has said it will make test production of 4-nanometer chips available in the fourth quarter of 2021 and volume shipments the following year. The Taiwanese company expects to have a new facility in Baoshan operational by the end of this year, which can be converted to production for Intel if required, one of the people said. TSMC executives previously said the new Baoshan unit would house a research center with 8,000 engineers.

While Intel has outsourced production of lower-end chips before, it has kept the manufacturing of its best semiconductors in-house, considering it a competitive strength. Its engineers have historically tailored their designs to the company's manufacturing processes, making a shift to outsourcing of flagship products unthinkable in the past. As the provider of 80% of personal computer and server processors globally, Intel produces hundreds of millions of chips each year. That scale dictates that any potential supplier must create new capacity to accommodate Intel."

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story...smc-samsung-to-outsource-some-chip-production

 

[DukenukemX]

The problem Intel has is that TSMC probably won't make their chips in fear that Intel would be a temporary customer. TSMC also doesn't need Intel as everyone is coming to them to make their chips. If I were Intel I would consider selling off my chip fabing facilities and focus on chip design. Unless Intel is about to make 5nm sometime this year, they don't stand a chance in their market share. Of course they could price their chips realistically, but I doubt it.

 

[Lakados]

The problem Intel has is that TSMC probably won't make their chips in fear that Intel would be a temporary customer. TSMC also doesn't need Intel as everyone is coming to them to make their chips. If I were Intel I would consider selling off my chip fabing facilities and focus on chip design. Unless Intel is about to make 5nm sometime this year, they don't stand a chance in their market share. Of course they could price their chips realistically, but I doubt it.

But Intel doesn’t need their 7 or 5 nm production lines. One of the things Intel has the hardest time keeping up with is all its GD chipsets. Even offloading production of them of either of their 12 or 16nm lines would immensely free up fab space at Intel. They could also offload things like network controllers and things like that. Many of those Intel still produces on their older processes not even boring 14, let alone one of its iterative +’s.

 

[ChadD]

The problem Intel has is that TSMC probably won't make their chips in fear that Intel would be a temporary customer. TSMC also doesn't need Intel as everyone is coming to them to make their chips. If I were Intel I would consider selling off my chip fabing facilities and focus on chip design. Unless Intel is about to make 5nm sometime this year, they don't stand a chance in their market share. Of course they could price their chips realistically, but I doubt it.

TSMC will for sure be looking to land Intel hard... they are going to drop their pants just watch.

I'm looking forward to see what old Bob comes up with in terms of contract pricing on their outsourcing. Its in TMSCs interest to fab for Intel.... make parts Intel CAN'T make on their own today or even in a year. Then increase their pricing later after Intel shareholders force Intel to sell the fabs. TMSC isn't stupid right now they are falling all over themselves to give Intel Apple like pricing. lol

Dealing with TSMC is a trap. If TMSC produces a good Intel chip at the end of 21 first quarter 22 on 4nm... and it sells like crazy, with TMSC pricing it so Intel makes profit. Intel is going to be a customer for life... shareholders at Intel will force them to dump the fabs instead of burn billions in profit on another 3-4 year long FAB fix. After that TMSC will hold all the leverage. Intel will never be able to go to a lesser then fab like Samsung... and TMSC will know it. Its 2023 and beyond where TMSC slowly squeezes the Intel profits into their accounts.

 

[Mega6]

Intel TSMC are talking 4/3mn production, not 7nm. A few years down the road, probably as a failsafe for intel.

 

[ChadD]

Intel TSMC are talking 4/3mn production, not 7nm. A few years down the road, probably as a failsafe for intel.

A couple years goes by quick. Apple is already on 5nm. I think there is a very good possibility TSMC sees this opportunity to ensure their future as the only high end fab around... there going to woo Bob with some insane pricing. He already has shareholders questioning if he is the right leader right now. I wouldn't put it past him to announce something sooner then later. TSMC is shooting for 2023 for mass volume 4nm last I heard... and that is only really 2 years off now.

 

[$trapped]

I hope Samsung keeps up with TSMC otherwise we're going to see higher prices. TSMC will be the new Intel and Samsung the new AMD.

 

[Mega6]

A couple years goes by quick. Apple is already on 5nm. I think there is a very good possibility TSMC sees this opportunity to ensure their future as the only high end fab around... there going to woo Bob with some insane pricing. He already has shareholders questioning if he is the right leader right now. I wouldn't put it past him to announce something sooner then later. TSMC is shooting for 2023 for mass volume 4nm last I heard... and that is only really 2 years off now.

As Apple moves to 4/3 nm, expect AMD to move to 5 nm with Zen 4 late 2020 / early 2021, Intel 4/3nm testing will come sooner if the deal gets done.

Swan is a former CFO and sucks managing an Engineering corporation. Spending all of intels money on stock buybacks. Well where did that get the shareholders? To 50 while AMD passes INTC to high 90s.

 

[OutOfPhase]

Elon Musk needs to found a USA based top-tier fab.

Not because I love Elon (although kinda). But because it costs a fortune, and he's rolling around in money like a naughty little piggy.

 

[$trapped]

As Apple moves to 4/3 nm, expect AMD to move to 5 nm with Zen 4 late 2020 / early 2021, Intel 4/3nm testing will come sooner if the deal gets done.

Swan is a former CFO and sucks managing an Engineering corporation. Spending all of intels money on stock buybacks. Well where did that get the shareholders? To 50 while AMD passes INTC to high 90s.

Swan was definitely the wrong choice. As for the stocks, Intel is far more accurately priced than AMD. The market is approaching bubble territory very fast and AMD's current price has a couple years earnings baked in as if it's a given. Considering COVID isn't going to go away overnight they are sitting on a valuation that will be difficult to live up to. Too much irrational exuberance.

 

[Mega6]

Swan was definitely the wrong choice. As for the stocks, Intel is far more accurately priced than AMD. The market is approaching bubble territory very fast and AMD's current price has a couple years earnings baked in as if it's a given. Considering COVID isn't going to go away overnight they are sitting on a valuation that will be difficult to live up to. Too much irrational exuberance.

You need to look deeper than historical valuation of stock right now. The bond market is useless. Returns on low risk bonds such as the US Treasury are returning almost nothing. You have to buy crypto and stocks to stay ahead of rising inflation and there is just not enough to go around. Call it a bubble but for the medium term at least - it's here to stay. Historical valuation is not the correct context for the current market. I bought Tesla at 317 before the split early last year, wanted to sell at 400 500 600.. but now its 880. Selling too soon is money on the table. Not sure I will time it right but have a good gut instinct usually. Is Tesla in crazy valuation territory? Hell yes. Thats what they said about Amazon too. Maybe I can time this one. Maybe not. Either way so what.

BTC went to 20k fell to 3k and is now 40k. BTc is anti-inflationary and the fed keeps printing off cash. How do you think all those covid checks are made and where the money comes from? M2. Biden will go even more crazy with the cash so bitcoin is generally going up regardless. Corporate America finally figured out what the smart ones did mining eleven years ago.

AMD from 3 to 97.
Maybe you forgot about AMDs Xlinix acquisition.. a 20% boost right there not including technology benefits. AMD is eating into Corporate Servers more - this is the high margin chip area. There is a lot of growth for AMD NOT baked in as i see it.

Who panicked on the covid crash? Not me. Go ahead and talk bubble. No one can time these things. If they did, they are lucky. Buy at a low price and sell high, what those prices are depends on the individual stock, investor risk factor, experience and opinion.

I think you are missing out.

 

[cdabc123]

AMD from 3 to 97.
Maybe you forgot about AMDs Xlinix acquisition.. a 20% boost right there not including technology benefits. AMD is eating into Corporate Servers more - this is the high margin chip area. There is a lot of growth for AMD NOT baked in as i see it.

Amd is in an interesting position and shows 0 signs of letting up. Unlike intels altera acquisition amd can't afford to squander the opportunity so you can bet they have some plans to not only keep xilinx thriving but also make use of technology gained. Their short position of success allowed them to actively reserve Fab space (which is vital for them too grow) and they currently have zero issues selling anything they can Fab (so much so they have to prioritize higher margin products and contract obligated products). If they are able to continue too utilize a good portion of tsmc Fab space and demand doesnt disappear there is almost no reason they shouldnt continue to thrive as a company.

This is not necessarily commenting on their stock price as any stock is based on way more bs then just how a company is doing.

 

[$trapped]

You need to look deeper than historical valuation of stock right now. The bond market is useless. Returns on low risk bonds such as the US Treasury are returning almost nothing. You have to buy crypto and stocks to stay ahead of rising inflation and there is just not enough to go around. Call it a bubble but for the medium term at least - it's here to stay. Historical valuation is not the correct context for the current market. I bought Tesla at 317 before the split early last year, wanted to sell at 400 500 600.. but now its 880. Selling too soon is money on the table. Not sure I will time it right but have a good gut instinct usually. Is Tesla in crazy valuation territory? Hell yes. Thats what they said about Amazon too. Maybe I can time this one. Maybe not. Either way so what.

BTC went to 20k fell to 3k and is now 40k. BTc is anti-inflationary and the fed keeps printing off cash. How do you think all those covid checks are made and where the money comes from? Biden will go even more crazy with cash.

AMD from 3 to 97.
Maybe you forgot about AMDs Xlinix acquisition.. a 20% boost right there not including technology benefits. AMD is eating into Corporate Servers more - this is the high margin chip area. There is a lot of growth for AMD NOT baked in as i see it.

Who panicked on the covid crash? Not me. Go ahead and talk bubble. No one can time these things. If they did, they are lucky. Buy at a low price and sell high, what those prices are depends on the individual stock, investor risk factor, experience and opinion.

I think you are missing out.

Returns on bonds are low because inflation is low, and it isn't rising. Are stocks your best bet in the long run, sure, but it's been that way for decades even when bonds were at least an option. Also, one doesn't have to invest in growth stocks to profit. Dividend stocks, while boring, are still a pretty damn good way to increase wealth. As for Tesla, while I get that its a tech company and not just a car company, outside of car sales, some solar roof installations (thankfully starting to increase), and battery tech, all the other stuff is still in R&D and won't return anything for years - if they return anything at all. So, yeah, enjoy the current price, but remember unrealized gains are just that, unrealized.

Despite my previous statement about AMD, I'm all for them winning out in the long run. I just think that the market has been looking a bit too far into its crystal ball and when there are corrections - and there are always corrections, if not recessions - the stocks that are ridiculously priced are the ones to take the biggest beating. Intel is still borked though, even with the more realistic valuation. Unless someone messes up, or they have something big up their sleeve (either tech or business plan related), they are going to die a slow death.

So yeah, I will talk bubble, but it isn't just me. There are plenty of Wall St. insiders saying the same. Perhaps another stimulus will keep the gears greased long enough to push that crystal ball view further out, who knows?

As for missing out, since I didn't get in earlier, I already have until there is another major correction. I certainly am not going to chase the gains. I'd rather ride the dividend train.

 

[ChadD]

Elon Musk needs to found a USA based top-tier fab.

Not because I love Elon (although kinda). But because it costs a fortune, and he's rolling around in money like a naughty little piggy.

Does a fab get him to Mars ?

 

[Mega6]

Returns on bonds are low because inflation is low, and it isn't rising. Are stocks your best bet in the long run, sure, but it's been that way for decades even when bonds were at least an option. Also, one doesn't have to invest in growth stocks to profit. Dividend stocks, while boring, are still a pretty damn good way to increase wealth. As for Tesla, while I get that its a tech company and not just a car company, outside of car sales, some solar roof installations (thankfully starting to increase), and battery tech, all the other stuff is still in R&D and won't return anything for years - if they return anything at all. So, yeah, enjoy the current price, but remember unrealized gains are just that, unrealized.

Despite my previous statement about AMD, I'm all for them winning out in the long run. I just think that the market has been looking a bit too far into its crystal ball and when there are corrections - and there are always corrections, if not recessions - the stocks that are ridiculously priced are the ones to take the biggest beating. Intel is still borked though, even with the more realistic valuation. Unless someone messes up, or they have something big up their sleeve (either tech or business plan related), they are going to die a slow death.

So yeah, I will talk bubble, but it isn't just me. There are plenty of Wall St. insiders saying the same. Perhaps another stimulus will keep the gears greased long enough to push that crystal ball view further out, who knows?

As for missing out, since I didn't get in earlier, I already have until there is another major correction. I certainly am not going to chase the gains. I'd rather ride the dividend train.

Maybe the correlation of M2 and inflation is there, maybe it isn't. Inflation is being artificially held down by the Fed to reduce interest on the debt. We shall see how that turns out with the exploding deficit but doubt it will turn out good The bond market is dead because the Fed killed it so where are investors to go? As you said - STOCKS. Simple, demand has now been raised and supply is steady. Stock prices increase. Also, Bitcoin has a fixed supply and anti-inflationary where as the US dollar is the converse.

Dividend stocks typically come more into play AFTER you've created a fairly hefty portfilio and want to live off of dividends. You're not going to multiply (x10) your portfolio on dividend stocks. So how you invest also depends on your goals. I get it, you obviously are conservitive with your portfolio and what you are comfortable with is where you should be. Just be leery of the "Wall Street Insiders" and talking heads on CNBC. I just do my own research and everything will be fine. Funny thing though, everything crashed on the covid deal, the stocks that came back the fastest and strongest were tech. Growth and dividend stock have lagged. I prefer to ride the high tech stock price gains. Much more fulfilling and exciting.

 

[OutOfPhase]

Does a fab get him to Mars ?

Only if we really screw up Earth.

 

[Mega6]

Only if we really screw up Earth.

too late

 

[$trapped]

Just be leery of the "Wall Street Insiders" and talking heads on CNBC.

I take it all with a grain of salt and I never listen to the financial journos.

 

[DanNeely]

The problem Intel has is that TSMC probably won't make their chips in fear that Intel would be a temporary customer. TSMC also doesn't need Intel as everyone is coming to them to make their chips. If I were Intel I would consider selling off my chip fabing facilities and focus on chip design. Unless Intel is about to make 5nm sometime this year, they don't stand a chance in their market share. Of course they could price their chips realistically, but I doubt it.

That combined with needing to build about a dozen size fabs to fully replace Intel's manufacturing (they've got 11 modernish fabs making 14nm or better CPUs, along with 2 legacy fabs, and R&D site, and one doing nand/3dxpoint). Unless Intel fronts most of the upfront cost of building them, TSMC's not going to do that without guarantees that Intel will buy most of their output for maybe a half dozen years (both to pay off their up front cost, and because they'll effectively lock Intel in by forcing a massive downsizing of their fab capacity).

At most, TSMC might be willing to gamble building one or maybe two fabs thinking they can probably find enough use by selling more to their other current/potential customers (ie getting NVidia/Qualcomm back from Samsung) if the Intel deal ends up only being a shortish term thing.

 

[viscountalpha]

TSMC will for sure be looking to land Intel hard... they are going to drop their pants just watch.

I'm looking forward to see what old Bob comes up with in terms of contract pricing on their outsourcing. Its in TMSCs interest to fab for Intel.... make parts Intel CAN'T make on their own today or even in a year. Then increase their pricing later after Intel shareholders force Intel to sell the fabs. TMSC isn't stupid right now they are falling all over themselves to give Intel Apple like pricing. lol

Dealing with TSMC is a trap. If TMSC produces a good Intel chip at the end of 21 first quarter 22 on 4nm... and it sells like crazy, with TMSC pricing it so Intel makes profit. Intel is going to be a customer for life... shareholders at Intel will force them to dump the fabs instead of burn billions in profit on another 3-4 year long FAB fix. After that TMSC will hold all the leverage. Intel will never be able to go to a lesser then fab like Samsung... and TMSC will know it. Its 2023 and beyond where TMSC slowly squeezes the Intel profits into their accounts.

Living in hillsboro, Or. I hear things. Probably more than I should share. I will say this, Intel doesn't seem as worried as they should be. Something is certainly up. Intel is being very tight lipped about it.

 

[Lakados]

Living in hillsboro, Or. I hear things. Probably more than I should share. I will say this, Intel doesn't seem as worried as they should be. Something is certainly up. Intel is being very tight lipped about it.

I think their 10nm fabs are finally taking shape and they are converting things over, their 7nm also seems to be back on track as the lawsuits for the DoE seem to be over with and that server project is back on track. I'm also not hearing bad things about their GPUs, and unlike AMD's they are available to OEM's which still make up the bulk of sales.

 

[Marees]

According to a report from SemiAccurate, Intel is looking to sign an outsourcing deal with Samsung

Intel is going to report its Q4 2020 earnings later today. It is during this event that the new CEO of the company will announce plans regarding outsourcing the production of future products to third-party fabs.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...g-deal-with-samsung-for-fabbing-gpu-chiplets/

 

[Marees]

According to a report from SemiAccurate, Intel is looking to sign an outsourcing deal with Samsung

Intel is going to report its Q4 2020 earnings later today. It is during this event that the new CEO of the company will announce plans regarding outsourcing the production of future products to third-party fabs.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...g-deal-with-samsung-for-fabbing-gpu-chiplets/

news comes from local news outlet Chosun, which echoed a report from SemiAccurate claiming that the Korean electronics giant will be producing up to 15,000 wafers per month for Intel at its Austin Foundry Plant located in Texas.

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2021/01/21/samsung-will-reportedly-produce-gpus-for-intel/

 

[sleepeeg3]

TSMC will for sure be looking to land Intel hard... they are going to drop their pants just watch.

I'm looking forward to see what old Bob comes up with in terms of contract pricing on their outsourcing. Its in TMSCs interest to fab for Intel.... make parts Intel CAN'T make on their own today or even in a year. Then increase their pricing later after Intel shareholders force Intel to sell the fabs. TMSC isn't stupid right now they are falling all over themselves to give Intel Apple like pricing. lol

Dealing with TSMC is a trap. If TMSC produces a good Intel chip at the end of 21 first quarter 22 on 4nm... and it sells like crazy, with TMSC pricing it so Intel makes profit. Intel is going to be a customer for life... shareholders at Intel will force them to dump the fabs instead of burn billions in profit on another 3-4 year long FAB fix. After that TMSC will hold all the leverage. Intel will never be able to go to a lesser then fab like Samsung... and TMSC will know it. Its 2023 and beyond where TMSC slowly squeezes the Intel profits into their accounts.

Nailed it. AMD spun off their fabs and look what happened to Global Foundries? It is merely an echo of what once was. AMD is fully committed to TSMC.

Problem is, once these companies lose their competitive edge in fabbing, they will never get back into it, because they fall behind the curve and won't have the resources to continue. TSMC only becomes more of a monopoly as companies throw their money at them.

The way intel was trending, this was inevitable. I imagine the bureaucracy hurt them - the achilles heel of all great companies that grow too large.

 

[ChadD]

Nailed it. AMD spun off their fabs and look what happened to Global Foundries? It is merely an echo of what once was. AMD is fully committed to TSMC.

Problem is, once these companies lose their competitive edge in fabbing, they will never get back into it, because they fall behind the curve and won't have the resources to continue. TSMC only becomes more of a monopoly as companies throw their money at them.

The way intel was trending, this was inevitable. I imagine the bureaucracy hurt them - the achilles heel of all great companies that grow too large.

Its interesting what has happened in the 2 weeks since that post.
- Intel changed CEOs... brought in their old CTO who got passed over the last time.
- Shareholders are happy... convinced Intel is about to dump their fabs or something. Stock shoots up.
- Pat the new CEO comes out and says no no we are going to fix this, most of our production will be in house. Stocks take a 9 point nose dive.

Intel made a massive mistake with Bob Swan. He was/is the sort of CEO you want when times are good and competition is a known commodity. Times when its ok to sprinkle all the profits back into investors pockets or up the value with stock buybacks. He was completely the wrong CEO for the time Intel was actually in. When competition is being aggressive and more importantly bold. ARM attacks are coming from all directions. Amazon cloud servers running their own ARM processors are gaining market share faster then even the most hardcore ARM booster would have predicted. Consumer losses are mounting both from loosing Apple completely and from AMD actually taking it to Intel. Then to top it all off there Fab depts have been in complete disarray for a few years, they fired Dr. Murry who ran the fabs in the summer.

The problem is really for Intel it seems Pat Galsinger now that we hear him speak sounds like old guard Intel to the core. IMO all of Intels problems can be summed up in two words, ignorant and arrogant. Their leadership for the most part seem extremely ignorant looking at folks like Bob and no doubt it filters down into the heads of tons of depts. To many mangers that really don't understand either the tech their working with or the greater market its being sold too. (I mean hell just look at their stupid product naming schemes and marketing in general). Arrogant in terms of engineering... any time a Intel engineer opens their mouths about just about anything they almost demand to be punched. Its not that Intel doesn't have some very intelligent engineers they are simply extremely arrogant. Hearing Pat talk about how fantastic Intel is and how rosy things are for their fabs.... I instantly remembered. OHHH ya this is the guy that was Chief Tech officer when they decided to develop CPUs that skipped basic security checks to gain a speed advantage... cause no one would be as smart as they where to figure out how to exploit it. One of the news stories the last week or so was that Pat was bringing back retired designers of nehalem... and people seemed excited. Again all I could think was... "you mean the folks that brought Intel Specter and Metldown with branch prediction that allowed cache reads prior to rights checks... THOSE assholes." lol

Ya Intel is fucked.

EDIT... just to add as well Pat was CTO when Intel choose the design goals for 10nm... its easy to forget that its been in development for something insane like 13 or 14 years.
From the Intel 10nm wiki entry.... "In 2008, Pat Gelsinger, at the time serving as Intel's Chief Technology Officer, said that Intel saw a 'clear way' towards the 10 nm node." I'm sure he's the right guy to fix it though.

 

[ikevi]

... Wow sort of shocked about the BS I am reading here.

If you think that Intel hasn't long ago hit the panic button and really is just doing the same old things then you know know nothing of the tech industry. Let alone all the management changes at Intel's TD group. They went from Sohail Ahmed (guy that basically said they could do everything) to Mike Mayberry (don't really know what he managed to change in TD besides culture push) to now Ann Keller (Fab deliverable engineering mindset). We will see if Pat changes this leadership again (Ann has only had the job since mid 2020.)

No one here knows anything more than that Pat said he plans to have the majority of Intel's products still made in house in 2023. What that means in the foveros/chiplet/whatever you want to call it space is anyone's guess.

All I read is that he is confident enough that Intel will be able to remain competitive with their in fab process against TSMC's in 2023. I look forward to seeing what Intel comes out with.

Intel finally got there 10nm to a place that is competitive. They obviously warned everyone about 7 nm being off by 6 months, but no word yet on anything beyond that. Soon we will know much more about Alder Lake (snippets sound good so far) and we will see what is going to happen with Meteor Lake.

 

[ChadD]

... Wow sort of shocked about the BS I am reading here.

If you think that Intel hasn't long ago hit the panic button and really is just doing the same old things then you know know nothing of the tech industry. Let alone all the management changes at Intel's TD group. They went from Sohail Ahmed (guy that basically said they could do everything) to Mike Mayberry (don't really know what he managed to change in TD besides culture push) to now Ann Keller (Fab deliverable engineering mindset). We will see if Pat changes this leadership again (Ann has only had the job since mid 2020.)

No one here knows anything more than that Pat said he plans to have the majority of Intel's products still made in house in 2023. What that means in the foveros/chiplet/whatever you want to call it space is anyone's guess.

All I read is that he is confident enough that Intel will be able to remain competitive with their in fab process against TSMC's in 2023. I look forward to seeing what Intel comes out with.

Intel finally got there 10nm to a place that is competitive. They obviously warned everyone about 7 nm being off by 6 months, but no word yet on anything beyond that. Soon we will know much more about Alder Lake (snippets sound good so far) and we will see what is going to happen with Meteor Lake.

We'll see... time will tell. Your right revisiting this in 2 years will be interesting. I have said it before in another thread. Pat is the make it or break it CEO. If he does everything right... Intel wins and x86 will reign for another 20 years at least. If he gets it even a little wrong at this point ARM continues to march and x86 is niche in 5 years or less.

I am glad Intel finally decided to get a CEO in that understand tech rather then how to inflate share price. They for sure need that. As far as changing directions on the fabs its only been 6 months since they got rid of Dr. Murry.... are they changing directions yes, are they in panic mode, clearly. However they seem to have hit the eject button on the arrogant engineering leaders just in the last few months..... and Pat was basically their king just few years ago.

I hope pat saves them I don't want to live in a world where Apple and Nvidia dominate.... I love AMD and all but I'm not convinced they could heard the OEMs of the world to stay x86 alone if Microsoft goes all in on ARM with their own chips or worse Nvidia systems. Like it or not Pat is the guy that set the plans in motion for the decade long 10nm fiasco that cost Intel BILLIONs and made Intel NOTHING, so far they haven't turned out one profit making 10nm part. He was the 10nm architect he was the companies CTO when they laid those plans and he took credit at the time. He is also bringing back the design team behind Nehalem.... which yes got some good press from people that remember their first i7 gaming rigs. However I can tell you now there are shareholders and corp folks that don't see that as a good move at all. Lets not forget that is the exact team of engineers that made all the insecure decisions that cost Intel a ton of business the last few years when Specter and Meltdown raped those chips in every opening. The fault for that lays completely with the chips designers who made some really really really stupid choices, they are too smart not to understand what they where doing, they simply figured they where smarter then anyone else and no one would ever figure out they skipped a bunch of things for the sake of performance. Those choices (thanks to Intel iterating of them for a decade) lead to 20-40% performance hits when security patches fixed those flaws in software.

So yes there are investors (its not as simple as... they expected you to outsource and sell the fabs... no real major investor was thinking that) who went from excited about Pat to not so much real fast. They where hoping for someone who wouldn't talk like a Intel engineer (we are the greatest and we will win cause where Intel). Instead they got Pat coming out and saying yes yes our fabs will be fixed in a year (which after a decade few believe).... and hey to regain our position I'm going to unretire designers that brought Intel one of their greatest financial design fuck ups of our existence... cause yes as much as Nehalem and its successors cemented Intel at the high end in the server market for years, it also included the seeds of their destruction. The security issues have cost Intel serious market share. Anyway best of luck to Pat he is going to need it... if things don't turn around before 2023 for the Intel fabs, I am pretty sure Shareholders will be calling for his head as well. I think their a little sick of hearing about fab issues every call for the last 4 or 5 years now.