Intel Kaby Lake i5-7600K CPU De-Lid & Re-Lid Temp Results @ [H]

Using the metal TIM on the IHS and water block did not amount to much. Could not tell the difference between it and Noctua. Not sure how to evaluate the mate after pulling the block either.

One thing for sure, this stuff makes a huge mess. I even masked off with tape and the TIM still got everywhere in the process. I would not suggest metal time for heatsink mating from my quick experience here.
 
OmenemO said:
Bummer, I was hoping for some sort of low profile or "stock" temperature comparison. At least it'll only be a few months till I can find out for myself.
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Not wasting time paying for stock or low profile cooler work ever again. No one reads that stuff. Would rather work on stuff that drives page clicks. Just the way it is.
 
With the temp drop I wonder how much does the power draw go down.
Do you have the equipment to measure it or at least get an approximation by measuring system draw with a specific load running?
 
stormy1 said:
With the temp drop I wonder how much does the power draw go down.
Do you have the equipment to measure it or at least get an approximation by measuring system draw with a specific load running?
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Honestly, I have not even been focusing on that. Just really is not what I am worried about. But you make a good point.
 
Holy shit. I got the bare naked CPU to finally work. I literally had to take a knife to the motherboard. I videoed the entire process. :)
 
Rendering out now.......the last 8 hours of my life boiled down to 20 minutes.
 
I was wondering if it would be beneficial temperature-wise if the bottom surface of the IHS (which mates with the CPU die) gets polished. Another thing is what would happen if we reduce the Z-height of the IHS by filing a bit the bottom edge which touches the CPU substrate. Theoretically these should help take the de/re-lid process to the extreme.
 
Brackle said:
I think it is because they dont want the processors to be too much faster than their 6/8/10 core parts, but thats just my opinion.
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I would think it's like with all businesses comes down to a bottom dollar. It costs them less to make and they turn higher margins since these are the parts they sell the most. Though I'd argue they could have used better TIM or solder at least K parts which carry higher cost. These don't really compete with enthusiast parts as they offer much more from more cores, pcie lanes, etc.
 
Kyle did you check what clearance is between die and inner IHS with no RTV or paste.
I mean there could still be space there were lapping the IHS could narrow down the space but still leave a gap.

You could try with various peices of paper, 1 ,2 etc and see at what point IHS lifts, and make it so you have like 1 paper thick clearance, which is about 0.004"
 
EdKiefer said:
Kyle did you check what clearance is between die and inner IHS with no RTV or paste.
I mean there could still be space there were lapping the IHS could narrow down the space but still leave a gap.

You could try with various peices of paper, 1 ,2 etc and see at what point IHS lifts, and make it so you have like 1 paper thick clearance, which is about 0.004"
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One step at a time.

 
Rhialto said:
Nice does this mean air cooling directly on die will also come?
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No, that is not what that means.

I do have a couple of air coolers on the way in to test with. Thermalright has a new one on its way to me now. Marc already has it to test.
 
Great videos, interesting, fun and funny, learned a lot - Thanks!

I think I will skip the direct naked lady contact method though, well on second thoughts, maybe a later date after being successful with replacing the Tim :D
 
Kyle, I noticed that you said that not fully sealing the IHS after applying the new TIM caused temperature issues. However, I noticed some people have been putting the CPU back into their computers without sealing the IHS back on at all and would simply lock down the IHS with the motherboard's retention bracket - but I haven't seen any follow-up for the results utilizing this method. Would you advise against this?
 
exlink said:
Kyle, I noticed that you said that not fully sealing the IHS after applying the new TIM caused temperature issues. However, I noticed some people have been putting the CPU back into their computers without sealing the IHS back on at all and would simply lock down the IHS with the motherboard's retention bracket - but I haven't seen any follow-up for the results utilizing this method. Would you advise against this?
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If it works for them, then it works, I can't really argue that having no adhesive might be better than having "wrong" adhesive.
 
Has HardOCP reached out to Intel about all of this? If so, what did they have to say? If not, why not?

A 6 to 13C delta due to replacing TIM material between lid and die is indicative of a manufacturing/implementation or design problem. This is compounded by the Z270 voltage issue (see below).

If anyone's wondering why I'm commenting at all, it relates to recently purchasing a GA-Z270-HD3 and i5-7600K w/ NH-U9B, only to find that under Prime95 small FFT peak core temperatures hit a whopping 75C (idle is 35C). My i7-2600K, as a comparison base, under the same test reaches 52C at most (idles at 33C). All temperatures are using stock frequencies: *no overclocking*.

Why I'm concerned about temperatures: I live in Silicon Valley where temperatures the past several years have been tumultuous at best; summer and autumn last year almost hit 40C. Most apartments here don't offer aircon. So yes, I have reason to be concerned, I have to be forward-thinking.

Let's not forget that high temperatures with Kaby Lake are also being seen due to "voltage problems" on Z270 motherboards -- not just Gigabyte, but MSI and others (I haven't heard of this happening on Asus, though). People have documented up to 24C decreases by manually setting vCore in the system BIOS (which is more like setting a "maximum" vCore). References for my statements:

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2745-gigabyte-z270x-aorus-gaming-7-review (see "Voltage Discussion")
https://ocaholic.ch/modules/news/article.php?storyid=15988

I mention this because the tests being done in this article are on a Gigabyte Z270 board. (Yes, I am well aware that de-lidding is unrelated to voltage; as said above, high temperatures on these rigs are compounded by several problems!)

I thought I learned my lesson back in the early 2000s with being an "early adopter", but apparently I'm just a glutton for punishment. It doesn't help that with the release of Z270 motherboards, the prices of Z170 boards jumped up by about US$25 (between December/January), otherwise I would've gone with a Z170.
 
koitsu said:
Has HardOCP reached out to Intel about all of this? If so, what did they have to say? If not, why not?
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No I have not and I personally don't care what they would have to say about it, as it is going to change nothing.

Vote with your wallet. That is the only thing that Intel listens to.
 
Is there a potential longevity problem with the metal TIM from multiple heating and cooling cycles (expanding/retracting)? How solid is it after application?
 
JDanser said:
I don't understand why Intel doesn't go back to soldered IHSes (on non-HEDT k series processors, anyways). They know damned well that the cheapass TIM they're using is effecting thermals, and they know damned well we're on to their little game.
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A penny saved is a penny earned...
 
koitsu said:
... recently purchasing a GA-Z270-HD3 and i5-7600K w/ NH-U9B, only to find that under Prime95 small FFT peak core temperatures hit a whopping 75C (idle is 35C). My i7-2600K, as a comparison base, under the same test reaches 52C at most (idles at 33C). All temperatures are using stock frequencies: *no overclocking*.
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Just a brief follow-up on this: reapplying thermal paste (did this twice) had no effect other than sometimes raising/lowering temps by 2-3C at most (par for the course). I ended up replacing the CPU. The replacement runs 11-14C cooler under load (and about 4-5C cooler idle). My point is that this puts further focus on whoever/whatever is doing the lidding and TIM application at Intel's manufacturing plants.
 
Maybe I missed it but what Cooler is being used for these tests? I just setup my i7-7700k with Corsairs H100i-v2 and am getting ~40-43C temps under load using the Asus stress test! Very good results. Was just curious for comparison sake. This is using Liquid Ultra Pro.
 
sawk said:
Maybe I missed it but what Cooler is being used for these tests? I just setup my i7-7700k with Corsairs H100i-v2 and am getting ~40-43C temps under load using the Asus stress test! Very good results. Was just curious for comparison sake. This is using Liquid Ultra Pro.
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For our cooling we are using a Koolance triple fan Exos radiator and pump system with an older model CPU-360 water block, which has now been replaced by the 390I model. I used this older block because it was brand new and had no build-up or corrosion present. We also used our stock testbench MG Chemicals Silicone TIM as it is easy to clean up and performs well.
 
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koitsu said:
Has HardOCP reached out to Intel about all of this? If so, what did they have to say? If not, why not?

A 6 to 13C delta due to replacing TIM material between lid and die is indicative of a manufacturing/implementation or design problem. This is compounded by the Z270 voltage issue (see below).

If anyone's wondering why I'm commenting at all, it relates to recently purchasing a GA-Z270-HD3 and i5-7600K w/ NH-U9B, only to find that under Prime95 small FFT peak core temperatures hit a whopping 75C (idle is 35C). My i7-2600K, as a comparison base, under the same test reaches 52C at most (idles at 33C). All temperatures are using stock frequencies: *no overclocking*.

Why I'm concerned about temperatures: I live in Silicon Valley where temperatures the past several years have been tumultuous at best; summer and autumn last year almost hit 40C. Most apartments here don't offer aircon. So yes, I have reason to be concerned, I have to be forward-thinking.

Let's not forget that high temperatures with Kaby Lake are also being seen due to "voltage problems" on Z270 motherboards -- not just Gigabyte, but MSI and others (I haven't heard of this happening on Asus, though). People have documented up to 24C decreases by manually setting vCore in the system BIOS (which is more like setting a "maximum" vCore). References for my statements:

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2745-gigabyte-z270x-aorus-gaming-7-review (see "Voltage Discussion")
https://ocaholic.ch/modules/news/article.php?storyid=15988

I mention this because the tests being done in this article are on a Gigabyte Z270 board. (Yes, I am well aware that de-lidding is unrelated to voltage; as said above, high temperatures on these rigs are compounded by several problems!)

I thought I learned my lesson back in the early 2000s with being an "early adopter", but apparently I'm just a glutton for punishment. It doesn't help that with the release of Z270 motherboards, the prices of Z170 boards jumped up by about US$25 (between December/January), otherwise I would've gone with a Z170.
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have you tried the F4A bios. yes its beta but it seems to work fine and addresses the voltage issue.
 
I'm a little late to this but great article. I'm going to start buying thermalright coolers for builds. I'm impressed with performance and I love how the profile looks like it won't get in the way of taller ram dims.
 
Hapa said:
These Delid results are fine and all, but with all the extra voltage and such dumped in to these cores what exactly is the benefit you are getting. I know from what I've seen with the delids and 5GHz OC's you only see roughly 1FPS to 3FPS increase over a stock clocked 7700K, so at this point is it really worth it? I mean the stock MHz is 4500MHz which is basically what you need to remove the CPU bottleneck, is there any point after that?

I think [H] needs to do a full delid - relid review of a 7700K with 3600MHz DDR4 at 5GHz vs a stock 7700K with 3600MHz DDR4 at 4.5GHz and see if its worth voiding the warranty.
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Here is why it's worth it. Most of here do not live scared. I can at least speak for myself. But I am willing to bet a lot of HardOCP people don't live scared either.

We aren't scared of breaking a cheap $200 - $300 CPU. And I think you are low-balling the gains. From 4.5 to 5.0 is like 13 to 16 fps gain depending on the game, I've read this in a number of places.

5ghz sounds fucking cool too brah, 4.5ghz is so .... 2013. We are over it brah. You feel me brah?
 
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